Sick of Ash?

[ShadowDeeps]

As of recent I've found myself just trying to enjoy the series in full for what it is. May and Dawn in their tenure (as they ceded Misty's place, but had better treatment as heroines, but I feel Misty had more inherent character complexities) don't placate those who are fans of Misty (nor do they placate me as much). People have qualms with Brock and Team Rocket. Johto's starters and those seasons are generally trounced to no end. People pine because of Ash's inaugural density. In rebuttal to that I'd say it's the nature of series like these to always suffer from unsatisfying character interactions and replacements, mischaracterization, and a proper amount of time for characters. The series always has in some way and I don't think that will change. Not to mention nostalgia pertains to preferring the older seasons a good deal, despite that I still do feel they have superiority in some ways. But not all is doom and gloom in the newer seasons.

And on reason of this I'd say Ash could stay. Granted I want him indulging in something else besides gym battles but I definitely think he can stay if his character continues to fulfill potential and evolve in a good many ways, as well as in relation to his Pokémon.

Those are my 2 cents, anyway.

 

[Jorah]

Actually, it's been hinted via archaeological evidence and other things that the Graeco-roman gods did actually exist (plus, there's the fact that archaeological evidence that the Judeo-Christian God exists as well.), however, it doesn't necessarily mean that these gods (save for the JC God, but I'm only saying this due to my being christian.) are believed in. Just because something's real doesn't mean that it is to be believed. I mean, take the Nazi concentration/death camps, for example. That was an undeniably real and horrifying event, and yet there are actually some people who don't believe that it actually happened (7th Heaven had an episode referencing this fact, where Simon was trying to get a neighbor to try and reveal her experiences due to the fact that a classmate of his stated that he and his father think that the Death Camps never actually happened and were make believe.).

Gods and Nazi's have nothing to do with Ash being at fault instead of the writers. But I like Ash, so it's no failure to me ~ he has his funny moments

Meh, not really. I mean, ALL of the people in Ash's group, not just Ash himself, has been referred to as the main protagonists, the heroes, the main characters, and others. Really, it was never quite focused on Ash to begin with (otherwise, why isn't the show named "Ash Ketchum's Journey", or why is it that they went as far as to have the Narrator label everyone in Ash's Group "Our Heroes" when they could have easily said "Our hero and his sidekicks"?)

Quicker to say "Our heroes are making their way to Canalave" than "Our heroes and Brock are making their way to Canalave...". It just sounds better, too.

The only one whose cheap win WASN'T actually covered by Chaosblazer is the Roxanne one, as I was the only one who saw that as cheap. I mean, even you have to admit that having Pikachu absorb Hyper Beam (Yes, the original raw did actually refer to that attack as Hyper beam, not Zap cannon), recovering it's health, and batting it away is extremely cheap. I mean, if it could bat away Nosepass away that easily, why didn't he try to do that right at the beginning of the match instead of nearing the end of the episode. Really, stop letting your Ash/hoenn bias blind you to the actual content of the battles. I'm sorry for being harsh, but it really grits my teeth when people claim that the Hoenn battles, for the most part, were flawless, when it seems to actually not be the case.

Hmm but my first post about battles was about DP, I haven't watched many Hoenn gyms because I haven't caught up on them and the first time I ever watched them was on YouTube about 2 years ago

May dn't even completed her Journey, yet they axed her out despite that. Misty also hasn't completed her journey, and she also had been axed out. Heck, Red didn't even complete HIS journey in "Pokemon Special', yet they axed him out anyways.

May needed to gt away from Ash so she could get her own battle style. Misty didn't join Ash so she could further her quest, she just wanted her bike. The manga has nothing to do with the anime, I don't know why people keep mentioning it

Let me guess, you're... Piplup from BMGf, right? I mean, you're sounding quite similar to him.

LOL just wanted to say, he sounds nothing like Piplup. Piplup murders you if you even hint at the possibility of Dawn leaving or that Piplup is not equal to Pikachu. I've always thought he sounded a bit like Scott/CyberCubed with all the Johto hating haha

Also, about the text thing, I don't really buy it (Especially since they put that into the openings that don't even focus on him. Brock's Paradise and the various Team Rocket openings comes to mind.)

They're endings, not openings. The text is only in the openings and was only changed in DP to include Hikari.

 

[ErickaVolt]

I think the writers should make Ash a less central character in the anime and make a new character in the anime.

 

[Rabbit]

I think Ash should die tragically, and the spotlight should shift to a bunch of new, younger characters.

 

[Vernikova]

But they won't have a main protagonist of the show die and Satoshi still seems young until otherwise stated.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Quicker to say "Our heroes are making their way to Canalave" than "Our heroes and Brock are making their way to Canalave...". It just sounds better, too.

They've handled "Ash and his friends" in the intros before, so why not say "Our Hero and his sidekicks"? Besides, those also sounded all right, anyways, not to mention, if they truly were sidekicks instead of Main characters, accurate and excellent.

Hmm but my first post about battles was about DP, I haven't watched many Hoenn gyms because I haven't caught up on them and the first time I ever watched them was on YouTube about 2 years ago

Ok, true.

May needed to gt away from Ash so she could get her own battle style. Misty didn't join Ash so she could further her quest, she just wanted her bike. The manga has nothing to do with the anime, I don't know why people keep mentioning it

He kinda payed enough for the rental bikes in "The Bridge Bike Gang", so it shouldn't really matter, anyways. Yet she still followed him, even though, technically, that should have paid them off.

They're endings, not openings. The text is only in the openings and was only changed in DP to include Hikari.

Meh, it's still as much confirming that Ash is the sole main character as the singer confirming that Ash is the main character just because she is the Seiyuu for Ash (which is far from the truth, since she didn't even sing in advance generation. heck, someone else, a guy, not to mention, sang it.). Especially since Bulbapedia and other places (even the show itself) confirmed that ALL of the main group protagonists are the be-all-end-all main characters, not just ash.

In terms of fanbase as a whole, it's also as much a confirmation as the line in the credits saying that Satoshi Tajiri is the creator of the anime is confirmation that he plays the biggest writing role in the anime (as some people like to claim that Satoshi Tajiri has very little to do with the Anime as possible, and that line is filler.)

In fact, if Dawn ultimately gets removed from the main cast come GEN V (assuming there IS one of course), it will ultimately prove that the whole Ash's story monologue is nothing more than an utter piece of garbage intended to lie to the audience (as, if Dawn, despite being mentioned as the ABSOLUTE Main character, is removed, then it also proves that Ash ISN'T the Absolute Main Character, either.).

@S. Magumarashi: I think Rabbit meant "younger characters" as in Fresher characters, not "younger" as in age.

 

[Vernikova]

She could've said fresher instead of misleading me with younger.

 

[hothead]

But if you think about they are all already kinda pushing ash aside to make room for dawn cause she is kinda the big star now in episodes i here more about dawn then i here about may and misty and i personally do not mind it i like dawn and i like ash i like the level it is on now a lot of dawn and a lot of ash i kind of like the balence we have got now

 

[Rey Lewis 55]

Hello there. I like Ash staying in the anime because when they chose the main character name as Ash Ketchum, it reminds me as that his goal in the show is to become the greatest pokemon master and catch all of the Pokemon.

 

[Jorah]

Meh, it's still as much confirming that Ash is the sole main character as the singer confirming that Ash is the main character just because she is the Seiyuu for Ash (which is far from the truth, since she didn't even sing in advance generation. heck, someone else, a guy, not to mention, sang it.). Especially since Bulbapedia and other places (even the show itself) confirmed that ALL of the main group protagonists are the be-all-end-all main characters, not just ash.

Why? Why would they write it on every single opening if he wasn't the main character? Why would they bother lying? It's simple enough to tell that Ash is the main character, along with Dawn. It's not even as if it's dub added

In terms of fanbase as a whole, it's also as much a confirmation as the line in the credits saying that Satoshi Tajiri is the creator of the anime is confirmation that he plays the biggest writing role in the anime (as some people like to claim that Satoshi Tajiri has very little to do with the Anime as possible, and that line is filler.)

It says he created Pokemon, not the anime

In fact, if Dawn ultimately gets removed from the main cast come GEN V (assuming there IS one of course), it will ultimately prove that the whole Ash's story monologue is nothing more than an utter piece of garbage intended to lie to the audience (as, if Dawn, despite being mentioned as the ABSOLUTE Main character, is removed, then it also proves that Ash ISN'T the Absolute Main Character, either.).

Where does it say that Dawn is the only main character!?

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Why? Why would they write it on every single opening if he wasn't the main character? Why would they bother lying? It's simple enough to tell that Ash is the main character, along with Dawn. It's not even as if it's dub added

Sooo.... I take it that they were telling the truth that Butterfree and Pidgeot were to appear in Battle Frontier just because they were in Spurt, right? They lied about that, so who says they aren't lying about Ash being the ABSOLUTE main character? Heck, they also lied about Ritchie appearing in Season 4 (NOT Master Quest, it's JLC, since the opening had Ritchie on there, despite not even appearing in that saga.).

It says he created Pokemon, not the anime

Ahem: "Created by: Satoshi Taijiri" That's what it always says at the end of the credits. And the way it was worded always made it seem that he actually wrote the anime.

Where does it say that Dawn is the only main character!?

I was just pointing out that, if they mentioned Dawn as being the ABSOLUTE main character along with Ash (as you and S. Magumarashi pointed out in the opening), and she gets replaced by the end of Gen IV, despite it mentioning it's her journey along with Ash's in the openings, then that also proves that that thing was only mere filler material, and that Ash ISN'T the ABSOLUTE main character (If the Narrator's constant references of the entire group as being "Our Heroes" isn't enough...), since, if they lied about Dawn being the absolute main character, then they also lied about Ash being the absolute main character.

 

[Jorah]

Sooo.... I take it that they were telling the truth that Butterfree and Pidgeot were to appear in Battle Frontier just because they were in Spurt, right? They lied about that, so who says they aren't lying about Ash being the ABSOLUTE main character? Heck, they also lied about Ritchie appearing in Season 4 (NOT Master Quest, it's JLC, since the opening had Ritchie on there, despite not even appearing in that saga.).

They never said Pidgeot or Butterfree would be in Battle Frontier. They were just in the opening to show his past Pokemon. The first line is about his past memories, or something.

The text, however, is giving a brief description about the programme you're watching.

Richie isn't in Mezase Pokemon Master Whiteberry, so it must just be the dub opening. The Johto League Champions opening animation was made specifically for the dub...most probably because 4Kids couldn't handle editing out the Japanese names of Pokemon flying around https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDIlaY2pvgo&fmt=18

Ahem: "Created by: Satoshi Taijiri" That's what it always says at the end of the credits. And the way it was worded always made it seem that he actually wrote the anime.

Probably dub only, as well. They probably also mention the writers and someone could not possibly believe that 1 person created the whole show by themself. The Japanese credits go into much more detail. That says created, not written by, anyway.

I was just pointing out that, if they mentioned Dawn as being the ABSOLUTE main character along with Ash (as you and S. Magumarashi pointed out in the opening), and she gets replaced by the end of Gen IV, despite it mentioning it's her journey along with Ash's in the openings, then that also proves that that thing was only mere filler material, and that Ash ISN'T the ABSOLUTE main character (If the Narrator's constant references of the entire group as being "Our Heroes" isn't enough...), since, if they lied about Dawn being the absolute main character, then they also lied about Ash being the absolute main character.

May was also a main character, but she went off, like you said. Main characters can go off the show, but at the moment, it's about Ash and Dawn. They'll probably cut Dawn in gen 5, if Ash wins the league then they'll probably cut him, too, but probably the whole programme will stop when he wins. But currently, it's mainly about Ash, then Dawn, although it's close-ish.

 

[Vernikova]

I'd like to point out here that in Japan, the series are seperated into 3: Pokémon, Pokémon Advanced Generation, and Pokémon Diamond and Pearl. This should clear up some confusion here.

 

[FairyGarland]

I'd like to point out here that in Japan, the series are seperated into 3: Pokémon, Pokémon Advanced Generation, and Pokémon Diamond and Pearl. This should clear up some confusion here.

This was the same with the English series but most fans would generally refer to the anime collectively as Pokemon. They really are the same thing such as Vampire Knight and Vampire Knight Guilty. All that's happened is they've slightly changed the title, it's all the same show.

 

[Vernikova]

No. In the English version there are seasons that are all joined to the one series. In Japan, they're just seperate even though they cross.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

No. In the English version there are seasons that are all joined to the one series. In Japan, they're just seperate even though they cross.

Actually, I'd argue that they are all the same shows. I mean, all 11 seasons weren't stated to be "pokemon", even in the original version. They were listed as "Pokemon", "Orange Island Adventures", "Johto Journeys", "Johto League Champions", "Master Quest", "Advanced Generation", "Advance Challenge", "Advance Battle", "Battle Frontier", "Diamond and Pearl", and "Diamond and Pearl: Battle Dimension". So, technically, there were actually 11 different series of pokemon, if we go by that. If we go by the main cast changes, then there were five series (As the Orange Islands removed Brock and replaced him with Tracey, Johto reinstated Brock, AG had Misty replaced with May, and DP had May replaced with Dawn.). I mean, in order for them to be truly different series, they must absolutely replace everything with new characters.

 

[Vernikova]

Actually, I'd argue that they are all the same shows. I mean, all 11 seasons weren't stated to be "pokemon", even in the original version. They were listed as "Pokemon", "Orange Island Adventures", "Johto Journeys", "Johto League Champions", "Master Quest", "Advanced Generation", "Advance Challenge", "Advance Battle", "Battle Frontier", "Diamond and Pearl", and "Diamond and Pearl: Battle Dimension".

Those are seasons. The only reason they exist is to seperate them when a year worth of episdoes, or 52 episodes, 26, etc, actually occur in maerica and probably other places as well. Of course, there are some shows that don't do this.

So, technically, there were actually 11 different series of pokemon, if we go by that. If we go by the main cast changes, then there were five series (As the Orange Islands removed Brock and replaced him with Tracey, Johto reinstated Brock, AG had Misty replaced with May, and DP had May replaced with Dawn.). I mean, in order for them to be truly different series, they must absolutely replace everything with new characters.

I'm not trying to debate or anything, that's just they way it is. The reason is because Japan "has no seasons" and just seperate them into series. That's why there are only three names for Pokémon so far in Japan.

Of course, we could let this thread just die.

 

[Gorgormcgor]

I think for each region from the games those heroes should be the characters for those episodes.

Uhh in the games thos are the characters from the pokemon special manga.

 

[Ekeshum]

I absolutely HATE Ash Ketchum!!! My little sister has a crush on him and carries and invisible Ash arouund its sickening!! I wish he would die!!

 

[UberChomp]

Getting rid of Ash? Very unlikely, and I hope not. That would completely ruin things, he's the conrnerstone of the anime, yes, but he's not the center of attention completely as he used to be, now you have Dawn and other characters soaking up a good amount of screen time. The characters are beginning to have their own sense of unique style and they all get their own shot at fame in a good amount of episodes, right now in D/P the anime is fine in terms of character attention.