Simplifying the games?

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

One thing I forget whether I've mentioned already but feel the need to add now onto the end of Rivvon's rather wonderful post above me is that the process of EV Training has already been simplified beautifully through the inclusion of the Super Training minigame. It's something anyone and everyone can access, it's an easy little minigame that produces great results and doesn't take very long - once you've unlocked all of them, you could max a Pokemon's EVs in about an hour. It even shows you how much you've done.

It'd be rather strange move for Game Freak to remove EVs at this juncture for the sake of simplification, as they would then have to remove Super Training, as it would serve no practical purpose.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't Ev's existed in some form since RG? Sugimori mentioned back to the roots, so I think they'll keep the stuff that's always been part of Pokémon in some form. Irc from what I've discussed with a friend, it was possible to Ev train all the stats to max, wasn't it? Perhaps they'll get rid of the two stat max and 8 or so Ev's for a third one being the most one can max.

 

[pkmin3033]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't Ev's existed in some form since RG? Sugimori mentioned back to the roots, so I think they'll keep the stuff that's always been part of Pokémon in some form. Irc from what I've discussed with a friend, it was possible to Ev train all the stats to max, wasn't it? Perhaps they'll get rid of the two stat max and 8 or so Ev's for a third one being the most one can max.

They did exist in Gen I and II, but it was a completely different system with EVs being distributed evenly amongst stats when you won a battle, so yeah, it was possible to max all stats...eventually. I remember being told by my friend to box my Pokemon frequently so they'd get stronger, I think it had something to do with that too.

It'd be quite interesting if they simplified EVs by reverting back to that system in part though, letting you max all stats, but having the nature of a Pokemon determine which stats received additional boosts or something. It doesn't really harm competitive battling all that much, I don't think...although I could be wrong about that; I haven't battled since Gen IV. But hacked Pokemon with maxxed stats in all areas never used to guarantee victory, so I doubt it'd make much difference. In a way it'd make more sense in-game, too - I never understood the rationale that you'd only get stronger in specific stats if you beat certain Pokemon; surely you'd improve in all areas? You could train in specific areas if you wanted to using Super Training, but otherwise you wouldn't have to worry about it: you'd get stronger just by battling whatever.

 

[Rivvon]

I think the reason why gen 1's EV system wouldn't work is because the whole idea of the current one is that you have to "sacrifice" something when making the Pokémon you want. Want a fast, deadly sweeper? You can maximize its Speed and appropriate attacking stat... but that leaves its HP and defenses low to act as a balance. Want a bulky wall? You'll have to train in the defensive areas, but it will leave your attacking capabilities lower.

So if all sweepers could be bulky, and all walls could be offensive, that just makes things... overpowered, for lack of a better word. The drawback of being able to max out only two stats is more of a balancing measure, and because you can only pick two stats it offers more diversity in terms of what you choose to create. For instance, in my happy Swampert family I mentioned above, if given the choice, I would absolutely give all of them all maxed-out stats regardless of what they were meant to do (it's kinda scary to think about a Mega Swampert that has maximum HP, Attack, Defense, Sp.Defense, and Speed...)--so then you have the same issue with IVs, where everyone will have the same EVs because why wouldn't you max out everything if given the chance?

Then the theoretical argument would be that EVs should be removed because everyone is using the same EV spread... when in reality our current EV system allows for creative freedom and should stay. But the reason why it allows for creative freedom is because it's limiting.

You even get cases where EV spreads can be very individual, too. Say you're certain you want your Pokémon to have max Sp. Attack, and be as bulky as possible. Well, that would be as simple as maxing out Sp. Attack and HP. But what you wanted it to be just a teensy bit faster to outspeed other similar Pokémon? That extra 4 EVs won't help you much. So you're gonna have to make a choice. Do you sacrifice some bulk?
244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe
Or do you sacrifice some power?
252 HP / 244 SpA / 12 Spe

EV spreads can be as simple as 252 / 252 / 4, or as unique as 252 / 156 / 92 / 8. You can fine-tune your Pokémon to outspeed what you need it to, to survive what attacks it needs to survive, because of the nuances offered by EVs. But if you could max all stats? I can guarantee you, they'd all look like this no matter what the Pokémon: 252 / 252 / 252 / 252 / 252 / 252

In that case, I say going back to the gen 1 EV system isn't really even streamlining, and it would just make it so that EVs could be removed, in a similar vein to IVs.

Aside from that, though, it's very true that since Super Training was implemented, EV Training is more accessible as a whole. And horde battles are very, very great for EV training, too. I'm not sure how likely the removal of EVs are after those two things were incorporated into the games.

 

[Shadow Chill]

Simplify the mechanics, but improve on the storytelling. The player could do without more features and gimmicks. As for the storytelling, they touch on the morally grey areas with the "villains" of Hoenn and Unova. Try something new like the redemption arc in Colosseum. Put the player in a position they've never been before working their way out of it or exploring it.

 

[captainfez3]

IVs, yes. I agree with that. I already touched on that in my last post but hopefully I can make it more clear here... but more on that later.

Remove EVs and Natures? No, absolutely not.
[/i]

I snipped out all the other stuff you wrote just for the sake of space, but upon reading it, I agree fully. I'm not sure if I stated it explicitly, but I honestly didn't really know the difference between IVs and EVs. EVs sound like something I do want to keep around, especially so long as we have super training so I can monitor what I have on each of my Pokemon.

I just disliked the idea of having to breed a Pokemon ad nauseum to get the right set of internal values, then taking that Pokemon and training him against specific Pokemon over and over to get the right stat boosts, just to have him be in the right % to be competitive. As long as whatever system they employ allows me to catch a Pokemon and then adjust him to be the "type" of Pokemon I want (like you gave in your example, defensive, speed, etc.) I will be happy. I just don't want all the time I invest to be because I'm trying to luck out and get the right stat spread, but rather because I am trying out different strategies, different strengths, and move sets. So basically the fun stuff ha ha.

I'm still not sure how I feel about natures, because I still have to hunt around to find the right nature to match my desired strategy before I even begin training the Pokemon. I would much prefer that the benefits/drawbacks of natures be something that we have direct control over. So my Swampert has a Brave nature, but that just impacts his flavor text or something. I can choose if I want him to have a boosted Attack stat at the cost of Speed, or whatever Nature combo we have.

Thanks for your post though, it helps to put it in a different perspective. I don't want them to simplify Pokemon, I just want the depth and complexity to be readily accessible to all people and not just those who have the patience to breed. Really this all comes down to having to hatch too many eggs over the years. I'm tired of doing it, it is mind numbing and it isn't fun lol.

 

[Sun]

It sounds almost like he's planning to revert 7th gen to the 1st gen data format...getting rid of EV yields, merging the special stats into one, maybe even removing IVs. Idk, Pokémon really isn't that complicated at all, so I can't even imagine what they could do to simplify it further and still maintain its enjoyability ~_~

Yeah, this is also emphasized by allowing us to send out Gen I mons to the Sun and Moon versions.

Reverting back to the basics isn't going to solve the problems tbrh.

If they drop the fundamental stuff like IV, EV etc etc, Pokemon's gonna lose that appeal they build and improvised through out the 20 years.

 

[Hikamaru]

If they drop the fundamental stuff like IV, EV etc etc, Pokemon's gonna lose that appeal they build and improvised through out the 20 years.

I agree. If the Sp. Atk and Sp. Def are merged back into the Special stat that 1st Gen had, I can now see Fairy-type becoming the new broken type, like how Psychic was extremely broken in 1st Gen days and Dragon was overpowered in pretty much every pre-6th Gen game.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I agree. If the Sp. Atk and Sp. Def are merged back into the Special stat that 1st Gen had, I can now see Fairy-type becoming the new broken type, like how Psychic was extremely broken in 1st Gen days and Dragon was overpowered in pretty much every pre-6th Gen game.

Not to mention that Psychic will go back to being Op again, not to it's former greatness, but close. Psychic still has only has three weakness, Dark, Bug and Ghost compared to Fairy's two, so perhaps not as much as a Fairy type. Of course, if they fuse the special stats back together I think they should do the same with their physical counterparts. Of course, Deoxys will be odd...

 

[Hikamaru]

Not to mention that Psychic will go back to being Op again, not to it's former greatness, but close. Psychic still has only has three weakness, Dark, Bug and Ghost compared to Fairy's two, so perhaps not as much as a Fairy type. Of course, if they fuse the special stats back together I think they should do the same with their physical counterparts. Of course, Deoxys will be odd...

I agree, Psychic may not be back to its original glory but Psychic-types are known for learning a lot of powerful attacks, but imagine Deoxys with 1st Gen stat mechanics... oh god.

Chansey's evolution line would also go back to its former strength as well, given Chansey had not just the ability to sponge special attacks in 1st Gen, but was also able to hit hard with special attacks.

 

[pkmin3033]

Fusing the special stats back together again would make no logical sense; it'd be another "simplicity for simplicity's sake" maneuver and I don't think Game Freak would make such a careless move because, if anything, it'd make the games even more complex than they already supposedly are. Such a move would cause absolute chaos with the physical/special split as well and, as already mentioned, certain types would skyrocket in power and break the metagame even further than it already is. Any changes they make on that scale are going to cause confusion across the entire fandom, because everyone is going to have to get used to it.

 

[Vezyn]

If removing IVs entirely becomes problematic they could always just continue to make it easier to deal with for players that don't hack.

Maybe add a feature to EV training that allows you to raise IVs while training your pokemon, along with special bags. Add berries that lower IVs as well for pokes that benefit from lower stats (Mostly speed).

They could even add something to Pokémon-amie that lets you change your pokemons Nature.

 

[Sun]

There's no need to make fuss over the two Special stats merging back, tbh.

The Psychic-type won't be as broken as everyone thinks; Dusknoir, Scizor, M-Absol said they can slay the Psychics. Similarly, M-Metagross didn't exist for nothing; it's able to crush the Fairies. Not to mention, Ghost-type moves are able to hit the Psychic-type now and there are stronger Bug-type moves too!

I highly doubt that they are merging them back though.

But the IV system and EV system from Gen I games... Hmm...

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Fusing the special stats back together again would make no logical sense; it'd be another "simplicity for simplicity's sake" maneuver and I don't think Game Freak would make such a careless move because, if anything, it'd make the games even more complex than they already supposedly are. Such a move would cause absolute chaos with the physical/special split as well and, as already mentioned, certain types would skyrocket in power and break the metagame even further than it already is. Any changes they make on that scale are going to cause confusion across the entire fandom, because everyone is going to have to get used to it.

The physical and special split? Well that was about types being assigned a certain stat. The types of the Gen I-IV Eeveelutions plus Dragon were all special. The other types at the time were all physical, including Normal of course. I doubt they'll undo that change from Gen IV.


About going back to Gen I mechanics, we did get a little taste last Gen, as the Exp Share went back to it's original Exp. All form.

 

[pkmin3033]

About going back to Gen I mechanics, we did get a little taste last Gen, as the Exp Share went back to it's original Exp. All form.

I had completely forgotten about the Exp. All...interesting that you bring that up, as it was absolutely awful in Gen I; if anything it made training even slower. That actually makes me hopeful that any changes they do elect to make with simplification in mind will undergo the same sort of improvements. It seems logical that they will, but with Game Freak you never know I guess.

 

[Cyrain]

I'm still not sure how I feel about natures, because I still have to hunt around to find the right nature to match my desired strategy before I even begin training the Pokemon. I would much prefer that the benefits/drawbacks of natures be something that we have direct control over. So my Swampert has a Brave nature, but that just impacts his flavor text or something. I can choose if I want him to have a boosted Attack stat at the cost of Speed, or whatever Nature combo we have.

It's honestly really easy to get the right nature for a pokémon:). If you have a decent amount of pokis in your pc you might only have to breed a single egg for the right nature. The breeding mechanics were SO simplified in gen 6 and I honestly love it...in any other gen I would never bother with the day care, but now I enjoy breeding for shinys, IVs, nature and even the right ball:D. It might be overwhelming at first, but if you take a closer look it isn't bad or difficult at all. A youtuber said in one of his videos 'Breeding, it's all I do anymore. Is it even fun...I guess'. Honestly it's addictive, once you understand the basics:3 Egg Moves, IVs, Nature, Shiny-Status, Ball and so on are a really interesting topic and I'd be really sad if all of this would be cut from the next games...

However, what I'd really like to see would be a better aproach to this whole topic:). We get a dumb tutorial about catching Pokémon every single time...why not some kind of nice explanation for breeding. A status page where you can see the IVs in numbers without having to rely on an online calculator or the judge, that would be great as well.

 

[KillerTyphlosion]

About going back to Gen I mechanics, we did get a little taste last Gen, as the Exp Share went back to it's original Exp. All form.

It didn't went back to the original. The exp all divided the exp like the exp share did in other gens but for the whole party. Now you just get a flat out +50% exp for every pokémon, but that is not the exp share mechanic, but the exp mechanic from gen 6. When you switch out pokémon both pokémon get 100% instead of 50% for both like in older gens.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Personally I think the Pokemon games are already simple enough.

They're the kind of games that are easy to get into and understand but there's still some complexity if you want to go looking for it.

I have to say this is something that concerns me quite a bit. I won't mind if they're just doing some cleaning up, but if they decide to dumb everything down it's going to be kind of upsetting.

I could kind of see this as not being a case that the games are too complicated, but maybe too bloated with redundant moves and features. At least I'm hoping that's the angle they're coming from.

 

[Mobile Tsk]

I think merging types would be interesting, but it would probably actually be more complicated than simple. I love the idea of a simplified game. The game mechanics have become pretty convoluted and there are far too many abilities and attacks to take into account when battling. Some people like this, and I will concede it does make the gameplay more competitive and interesting, but something fundamental about Pokemon is lost in all of the confusion. I will take the simpler games over the more complicated ones more often than not, though I do appreciate the creativity that has gone into some of the more recent odd attacks.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

It didn't went back to the original. The exp all divided the exp like the exp share did in other gens but for the whole party. Now you just get a flat out +50% exp for every pokémon, but that is not the exp share mechanic, but the exp mechanic from gen 6. When you switch out pokémon both pokémon get 100% instead of 50% for both like in older gens.

I think that they should make it more like Gen I, since some felt it was broken.

 

[captainfez3]

It's honestly really easy to get the right nature for a pokémon:). If you have a decent amount of pokis in your pc you might only have to breed a single egg for the right nature. The breeding mechanics were SO simplified in gen 6 and I honestly love it...in any other gen I would never bother with the day care, but now I enjoy breeding for shinys, IVs, nature and even the right ball:D. It might be overwhelming at first, but if you take a closer look it isn't bad or difficult at all. A youtuber said in one of his videos 'Breeding, it's all I do anymore. Is it even fun...I guess'. Honestly it's addictive, once you understand the basics:3 Egg Moves, IVs, Nature, Shiny-Status, Ball and so on are a really interesting topic and I'd be really sad if all of this would be cut from the next games...

However, what I'd really like to see would be a better aproach to this whole topic:). We get a dumb tutorial about catching Pokémon every single time...why not some kind of nice explanation for breeding. A status page where you can see the IVs in numbers without having to rely on an online calculator or the judge, that would be great as well.

Yeah I knew they added some stuff in to make breeding easier. I just do not think it is a fun thing to do. Running around hatching eggs is mind numbing. I am always watching tv when I have to do it, wishing I could just go battle and raise some Pokemon. The only thing I've ever enjoyed about breeding was getting unique moves onto Pokemon that wouldn't otherwise have them. Now THAT was an excellent addition. Everything else, I wouldn't shed a tear to see it go. Especially the new Poke ball thing they put in. Why can't I just transfer a Pokemon into a different Poke ball, now I have to be conscious about that when I breed too?! lol. makes no sense