Suicide

[Beechlgz]

But, if someone is truly depressed/other medical reasons, then who are we to say it isn't the right thing to do?

Nobody is in any position to say it is the right thing to do either. Purely because we can't know the future and what it holds. No matter how hopeless someone's outlook on life may be, they just can't know that it will be like that forever. Amazing things can happen, people's lives can be turned around by just one minor and seemingly insignificant event.

Depression is a horrible thing I agree. It can really seem like there is no light at the end of the tunnel, nothing will ever get better, everything is hopeless, nobody cares, that's often the mindset of someone who's depressed. Often they don't get the support they so very much need either because they might be hiding it or they might be showing it but nobody is taking seriously just how badly they feel. Friends and family (if they have any) might just shrug it off as a phase, or tell them to suck it up and move on which doesn't help. So not only does someone who's depressed see the problem as way bigger than it is (due to serious chemical imbalance and/or possibly past trauma hauntings) but those around them often perpetuate that mindset rather than being kind and understanding towards the ones suffering from the depression.

After reading through that psuedo-anecdote, what are your thoughts on suicide? Some say it is selfish, others don't agree. What is your stance?

It is selfish but people need to be understanding of this form of selfishness. It's not the kind of selfishness you see from greedy or self-absorbed people and it shouldn't be treated as such. It's the kind of selfishness from someone truly desperately in need of whatever it is that's missing from their life (the medicine, so to speak), whether it be kindness, security, love, friendship, spirituality, therapy, or even just stability in their lives. Suicidal mindset is an illness and one of the symptoms is selfishness. Left untreated too long, it can be fatal for obvious reasons.

Anyone who's ever suffered from suicidal thoughts will know it is an illness, you truly feel like your entire being is under attack, like your body would feel like if you were under attack from some kind of virus. You lose your appetite, you feel weak, sometimes dizzy, sick, you feel like your body weighs more, you feel a numb but at the same time pressing negativity around your whole self. You feel achy like when you have flu. Your immune system stops working properly so you fall ill a lot with colds and tummy bugs which make you feel even worse. You start having negative thoughts you would never normally have before, ones that take a hold on you and don't let you think anything positive.

I don't believe suicide is ever right though. It's to be avoided at all costs. The aim should be towards healing and not to end it all. Easier said than done of course! That's why someone suffering from this needs lots and lots of support, even if it's not from immediate family. More people need to be understanding of other people who are feeling this way instead of turning a blind eye. Even if it's a complete stranger. Just give them your time and support. Most likely they need it as much as they need their water and nutrients.

 

[Capris]

Suicide isn't entirely selfish and when somebody is thinking of committing suicide it most likely is the last thing on a long list of things the person thinks is the best thing to do about their depression, or ostracism. They've either been pushed to a point where they feel they have no other option or somehow have managed to get themselves in a state of depression that they can't shake. Internally it's the farthest thing from selfish because they're just seeking to end pain in the only way they think they can, however externally it could affect those around them and their loved ones.

So yes it is selfish, but it isn't in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Dumbo Decus]

Nearly 7 years ago, by best friend took his life. I still don't know why. I still don't understand. But how can you say that it isn't the answer. Have you been in that situation of nearly taking your life? I can't comment for you, but I hope you haven't, because no one should have to be in that situation.

​

Yeah, I'm sorry for your loss. It is a terrible thing to have to experience, when someone you care about decides to take their life... . I think that is where people get the idea that it is selfish. Because they just take their life that everyone is apart away. But there is a flipside to that coin. It is selfish to ask them to keep living because you want them in your life. It is selfish to ask them to endure any sort of pain that they are feeling. So, for that reason, I can't really say that it is selfish. No one should be in that situation, and what does it say about the world the fact that people are? Nothing good, I assure you that. It is horrible to care for a person in that situation. Because... you can almost always find a way to blame yourself... . No matter what people say or do... you always wonder what you could have down to prevented it =/.

Again, I apologize for your loss. It hurts, I know.

It is selfish but people need to be understanding of this form of selfishness. It's not the kind of selfishness you see from greedy or self-absorbed people and it shouldn't be treated as such. It's the kind of selfishness from someone truly desperately in need of whatever it is that's missing from their life (the medicine, so to speak), whether it be kindness, security, love, friendship, spirituality, therapy, or even just stability in their lives. Suicidal mindset is an illness and one of the symptoms is selfishness. Left untreated too long, it can be fatal for obvious reasons.

I wouldn't call that selfish. You need it to survive, and taking what you need, getting what will make you live, that isn't selfish. That s like.. saying eating bread is selfish. You could give it to someone else to eat, but you need it too. It isn't selfish to keep it, but it isn't selfless either. Which is fine. Rather you be nothing than selfish. I kept writing shellfish -__-

I don't believe suicide is ever right though. It's to be avoided at all costs. The aim should be towards healing and not to end it all. Easier said than done of course! That's why someone suffering from this needs lots and lots of support, even if it's not from immediate family. More people need to be understanding of other people who are feeling this way instead of turning a blind eye. Even if it's a complete stranger. Just give them your time and support. Most likely they need it as much as they need their water and nutrients.

Suicide isn't right, that I agree. There is always another solution, always someone who wants to help. You just have to hold out until you get it. But you can't always hold out, eventually you will reach a point where you just have to give up, or get completely decimated. Think of it as the last ten soldiers waiting for reinforcements, meanwhile, they have to take on the much stronger and larger army of ten thousand. You might have the home-field advantage, but you won't ever win. No matter how good a fight you put up. But there is chance, that you can hold out until reinforcements come and help you win.

I agree with you on that last bit too. You shouldn't just help your friends and family. While you can't be there to help everyone, if you notice someone drowning, offer them your hand. Help them to their feet, and then just hope that someone else can come along and finish the job. If you do help people, you can't be a crutch for them. You have to help them build the strength so they can survive without you, because you won't always be there for them.

Suicide isn't entirely selfish and when somebody is thinking of committing suicide it most likely is the last thing on a long list of things the person thinks is the best thing to do about their depression, or ostracism. They've either been pushed to a point where they feel they have no other option or somehow have managed to get themselves in a state of depression that they can't shake. Internally it's the farthest thing from selfish because they're just seeking to end pain in the only way they think they can, however externally it could affect those around them and their loved ones.

So yes it is selfish, but it isn't in the eye of the beholder.

The eye of the beholder? You basically just nulled everything you said with that. You just said: "It is selfish, but it depends on who is looking at the situation." Well I personally don't think it selfish... . So in my eye it isn't. Now, if you were talking about the person committing the act, of course it isn't selfish in their eyes. Many of them even believe that they are doing the world a favor by offing themselves. When in reality, they aren't.

It might affect the loved ones, but as I've said above: the loved ones wishing them to endure the pain to be in their lives is quite selfish as well. Why? It's like... your sports team expecting you to win the game for them with a broken leg and disowning you when you don't. They would only like you as long as you could do that for them, despite what you were going through. Just as the people you live with would only like you as long as you could live for them.

Understanding the reason why people feel the way they do at these desperate times if the first step to preventing it.

 

[Capris]

The eye of the beholder? You basically just nulled everything you said with that. You just said: "It is selfish, but it depends on who is looking at the situation." Well I personally don't think it selfish... . So in my eye it isn't. Now, if you were talking about the person committing the act, of course it isn't selfish in their eyes. Many of them even believe that they are doing the world a favor by offing themselves. When in reality, they aren't.

It might affect the loved ones, but as I've said above: the loved ones wishing them to endure the pain to be in their lives is quite selfish as well. Why? It's like... your sports team expecting you to win the game for them with a broken leg and disowning you when you don't. They would only like you as long as you could do that for them, despite what you were going through. Just as the people you live with would only like you as long as you could live for them.

When I say the eye of the beholder I'm talking about the person who's depressed or ostracized thinking of committing suicide. Looking at it from your perspective which is, admittedly, probably the right one.. it still makes sense. If in your eyes nothing about suicide is selfish that doesn't change the fact that I find some aspects of it selfish. It's hard for me to tell somebody they're wrong about an opinion as subjective as this, but I strongly feel that if anybody besides the victim is looking at it as completely unselfish they're wrong. You said yourself that they think offing themselves is going to help the world and go on to say that that's wrong, so if you disagree with their mindset.. that they're being unselfish, then what do you think if not that there's something selfish about it? I'm not saying you think one thing or the other but I don't understand how you can disagree that it isn't selfish and manage to put it into some really obscure gray area that you haven't really explained. I love seeing others perspectives and takes on this sort of thing so don't be put off by what might seem like attitude, I'm genuinely interested.

As for your analogy, I just don't get it at all. I understand what an analogy is and that despite the obvious differences between the two things being compared they share an underlying theme, but in this case there is no underlying theme or at least not one that makes sense. The loved ones of somebody who has committed suicide would most likely not have meant for them to continue living through enduring pain but instead would help them seek other methods of treating the problem that didn't involve killing themselves. That's something people who are depressed need to realize, as hard as it is to admit to there being something wrong with you, just telling somebody and having that shoulder to lean on can be a relief in and of itself. Beyond that they would do everything in their power to help you, whether it be through making a more inviting atmosphere for you in places they could or helping you to get anti depressants.

I'm starting to realize what you mean with your analogy, but that kind of thinking is so morbid. I wouldn't want to try and get myself into that mindset. You bring up the point that there's somebody who wants them to live which is something to live for in itself, relationships aren't one sided and your happiness should be their happiness, and vice versa. The person willing to commit suicide is the one in this case that knows the whole story, without telling their loved ones what's going on they have no way to reciprocate in the relationship if you're hiding how you truly feel, so it's the victim's job to fill them in. I mean, it's just again.. incredibly morbid to think of one person as selfish for wanting somebody they care about to continue living and rather than in sadness or depression they would want to help you, but they can't do that if somebody is already dead. They want you to live not just for them but for yourself, because as much as they doubt it almost everybody has somebody who wants to be there for them when they're down. You can find solace in the most unlikely people.

I urge anybody who feels like they need to kill themselves to talk to me personally, as well as somebody involved with you in real life. Being a human I've had my bouts of depression and I know that it's hard to dig yourself out of it but if you don't do it as soon as possible it's only going to get worse and manifest itself in you until it's to the point where you seemingly can't do anything about it.. and that's an awful place to be.

 

[Silent Crest]

Really? While agreeing that people do not deserve to die society can only accommodate certain things. Sometimes, people have to fight it.

Most people, before they become gay, they know that people will taunt them for it. Which is why so many people never come out of the closet. If they are depressed about it, they should stop and think, is the identity that it gives them really worth the trouble? I think suicide for this particular reason is selfish, rash, or they're just crazy, obviously they haven't thought everything through.

Honestly, everyone has a right to be stupid, but some people just abuse that right.

 

[Dumbo Decus]

When I say the eye of the beholder I'm talking about the person who's depressed or ostracized thinking of committing suicide. Looking at it from your perspective which is, admittedly, probably the right one.. it still makes sense. If in your eyes nothing about suicide is selfish that doesn't change the fact that I find some aspects of it selfish. It's hard for me to tell somebody they're wrong about an opinion as subjective as this, but I strongly feel that if anybody besides the victim is looking at it as completely unselfish they're wrong. You said yourself that they think offing themselves is going to help the world and go on to say that that's wrong, so if you disagree with their mindset.. that they're being unselfish, then what do you think if not that there's something selfish about it? I'm not saying you think one thing or the other but I don't understand how you can disagree that it isn't selfish and manage to put it into some really obscure gray area that you haven't really explained. I love seeing others perspectives and takes on this sort of thing so don't be put off by what might seem like attitude, I'm genuinely interested.

As for your analogy, I just don't get it at all. I understand what an analogy is and that despite the obvious differences between the two things being compared they share an underlying theme, but in this case there is no underlying theme or at least not one that makes sense. The loved ones of somebody who has committed suicide would most likely not have meant for them to continue living through enduring pain but instead would help them seek other methods of treating the problem that didn't involve killing themselves. That's something people who are depressed need to realize, as hard as it is to admit to there being something wrong with you, just telling somebody and having that shoulder to lean on can be a relief in and of itself. Beyond that they would do everything in their power to help you, whether it be through making a more inviting atmosphere for you in places they could or helping you to get anti depressants.

I'm starting to realize what you mean with your analogy, but that kind of thinking is so morbid. I wouldn't want to try and get myself into that mindset. You bring up the point that there's somebody who wants them to live which is something to live for in itself, relationships aren't one sided and your happiness should be their happiness, and vice versa. The person willing to commit suicide is the one in this case that knows the whole story, without telling their loved ones what's going on they have no way to reciprocate in the relationship if you're hiding how you truly feel, so it's the victim's job to fill them in. I mean, it's just again.. incredibly morbid to think of one person as selfish for wanting somebody they care about to continue living and rather than in sadness or depression they would want to help you, but they can't do that if somebody is already dead. They want you to live not just for them but for yourself, because as much as they doubt it almost everybody has somebody who wants to be their for them when they're down. You can find solace in the most unlikely people.

I urge anybody who feels like they need to kill themselves to talk to me personally, as well as somebody involved with you in real life. Being a human I've had my bouts of depression and I know that it's hard to dig yourself out of it but if you don't do it as soon as possible it's only going to get worse and manifest itself in you until it's to the point where you seemingly can't do anything about it.. and that's an awful place to be.

You do raise a few good points. I would like to start off that saying my analogy isn't the best. Also, I'm a rather cynical person, so if things I've said were morbid, that would most likely be the reason why.

Relationships aren't one sided. It takes two tango, two to put in the effort. You should both strive for a shared happiness. That is what your ultimate goal should be, happiness for both of you. Of course, when one person can't be happy, it is selfish to have them continue you on, and put in the effort to make you happy. You could be trying the hardest to them happy, but for some people... no matter what you do it won't work. But also, those in that state need to realize: people do care about you, they do love you. They'd hate to see you just give up everything. To quote my favorite(albeit short) TV series, "You don't get to do that, to come into someone's life, make them care, and then just check out." I believe that there is some truth in that. I'd be devastated if the guy I loved did that..

Really? While agreeing that people do not deserve to die society can only accommodate certain things. Sometimes, people have to fight it.

Most people, before they become gay, they know that people will taunt them for it. Which is why so many people never come out of the closet. If they are depressed about it, they should stop and think, is the identity that it gives them really worth the trouble? I think suicide for this particular reason is selfish, rash, or they're just crazy, obviously they haven't thought everything through.

Honestly, everyone has a right to be stupid, but some people just abuse that right.

Time for analogical redemption! xD

Okay, imagine this. You are on a roller coaster. You know it is going to go down the "hill" really fast. But you still jump a little when it happens. Or perhaps you are going to the Halloween carnival, you know people are going to jump out at you, you are ready, you know where they are; yet you still jump.

The point in that? Just because you know something is going to happen, that doesn't mean you can tolerate it, or that you will in fact be able to hand it. The LGBT community knows that people will taunt and prod them for their choice. But that knowledge can't ever prepare them for what they might actually face. The situation could be worse than they had ever imagined, ever heard about. Even if they know it is coming, they still can't always handle it. It becomes too much, and well, the worst happens.

 

[groteske]

Yeah, I know. Acceptance is picking-up. The idea is to look deeper than what I wrote. I merely put the appetizer on the table, you have to make the main course. It might still be getting widely acceptable, but I'm sure that every gay person in their life has that one person(probably more) that call them "******s", say they are "disgusting" or something to that degree. If you mix that with a depressed person.. and one that already hates their life styles, that doesn't bode well for them.

Not everyone accepts them, and they shouldn't expect that. But those people that don't accept them, when they vocalize it, it stings. Even if people don't directly do it, tings they say and do could already hurt someone.

..yeah, you completely missed my point. My response to your anecdote was a completely separate thought from the rest on suicide; I took the opportunity to explain something biased towards 'outsiders'/whathaveyou from the opposite perspective.

I was thinking more about an individual's internal reactions to depression itself, not middle-school stuff like name-calling/etc; the point when outside triggers are disregarded and the person generates & thrives/rots off their own. Sounds like a line of crappy poetry but that's the most succinct way I can explain the specific point I'm interested in

ETA: I'm too optimistic, I automatically assume that people are more mentally resilient than they usually turn out to be ('people' by and large, but in this scope 'people' = depressed persons).

 

[Dumbo Decus]

..yeah, you completely missed my point. My response to your anecdote was a completely separate thought from the rest on suicide; I took the opportunity to explain something biased towards 'outsiders'/whathaveyou from the opposite perspective.

I was thinking more about an individual's internal reactions to depression itself, not middle-school stuff like name-calling/etc; the point when outside triggers are disregarded and the person generates & thrives/rots off their own. Sounds like a line of crappy poetry but that's the most succinct way I can explain the specific point I'm interested in

ETA: I'm too optimistic, I automatically assume that people are more mentally resilient than tthey usually turn out to be ('people' by and large, sabut in this scope 'people' = depressed persons).

I don't see how I missed your point? So I just must be completely oblivious to it.

In another attempt:

It is others who drive people the point where they have their own internal triggers.

Usually people hear things so much, that they start to believe it themselves. From one point, they move to the next. They begin to think things of themselves that others wouldn't even say.

I'm trying to address your point, really.

 

[groteske]

It is others who drive people the point where they have their own internal triggers.

Usually people hear things so much, that they start to believe it themselves. From one point, they move to the next. They begin to think things of themselves that others wouldn't even say.

I agree and disagree on the first bit - reduced and barring other mental disorders, yes, that's correct. But on an abstract scale, the triggers depend entirely on the individual's disposition. Some will respond negatively to objective events that occur - loss of a job, the act of divorce; others will be more affected by subjective or people-driven triggers like shame or guilt over x event. It reduces to one's level of self-worth, and again requires a certain disposition to either continue sinking or reverse the situation.

 

[Gilgαmesh]

Bear with me on this post. I'm quite the pessimist but I do try my best to sound as unbiased as I can on this.

I'll begin with saying that suicide is definitely not selfish, but I'll also say that it depends on the reasoning. Say for instance that someone at school is being bullied, and being bulllied so frequently that they've gone insane and they've killed themselves. I wouldn't call that selfish. I don't know if this would be a strong example, but it's one example that proves that suicide, although it's obvious enough by now, really isn't anything to joke with. .___.;

I try to steer away from the subject usually, because it sorta makes me feel uneasy, but I feel like I had to include my two cents on it. I don't really have an opinion on it at all, because its stuff that just...happens, and it's terrible for it to happen...

 

[Silent Crest]

Time for analogical redemption! xD

Okay, imagine this. You are on a roller coaster. You know it is going to go down the "hill" really fast. But you still jump a little when it happens. Or perhaps you are going to the Halloween carnival, you know people are going to jump out at you, you are ready, you know where they are; yet you still jump.

The point in that? Just because you know something is going to happen, that doesn't mean you can tolerate it, or that you will in fact be able to hand it. The LGBT community knows that people will taunt and prod them for their choice. But that knowledge can't ever prepare them for what they might actually face. The situation could be worse than they had ever imagined, ever heard about. Even if they know it is coming, they still can't always handle it. It becomes too much, and well, the worst happens.

This analogy doesn't really work. Society is not like a roller coaster, maybe it is, but you can press the stop button. There's a lot of workarounds to things.

 

[Dumbo Decus]

I agree and disagree on the first bit - reduced and barring other mental disorders, yes, that's correct. But on an abstract scale, the triggers depend entirely on the individual's disposition. Some will respond negatively to objective events that occur - loss of a job, the act of divorce; others will be more affected by subjective or people-driven triggers like shame or guilt over x event. It reduces to one's level of self-worth, and again requires a certain disposition to either continue sinking or reverse the situation.

I suppose that it really boils down to how sensitive a person is, and how they have been trying. Because for a lot of people, when they put a ton of effort into something, they are a little disheartened when they fall short. They just need to realize that mistakes are made, and people will forgive you. You will get another chance.

Bear with me on this post. I'm quite the pessimist but I do try my best to sound as unbiased as I can on this.

I'll begin with saying that suicide is definitely not selfish, but I'll also say that it depends on the reasoning. Say for instance that someone at school is being bullied, and being bulllied so frequently that they've gone insane and they've killed themselves. I wouldn't call that selfish. I don't know if this would be a strong example, but it's one example that proves that suicide, although it's obvious enough by now, really isn't anything to joke with. .___.;

I try to steer away from the subject usually, because it sorta makes me feel uneasy, but I feel like I had to include my two cents on it. I don't really have an opinion on it at all, because its stuff that just...happens, and it's terrible for it to happen...

Yeah, I mean, that wouldn't be selfish. But neither would the person's death who has a bunch of friends or who isn't bullied, but might get a lot of **** at home(i.e. fighting parents).

This analogy doesn't really work. Society is not like a roller coaster, maybe it is, but you can press the stop button. There's a lot of workarounds to things.

Then perhaps you are looking too deep.

The person knows that when they come out, people will view them differently. But they don't know what they will do, or how much they can handle, until they are actually put through it.

You know that drop on the roller coaster is coming, but you don't know what it will feel like, or what rush it will give you until you go down it.

As for the stop button: You try stopping the roller coaster the top. It won't work. No one is going to stop it for you, and furthermore, you'd be stuck at the top if you did.

 

[Gardenia101]

I know exactly how these people feel, because I'm among them. People that are constantly bullied can really get some damage to their mind... and it scars them. Alot. And it really hurts in a way nobody else seems to understand; and soon they will get a terrible feeling of loneliness and hopelessness. Soon, death sounds really good. However, if someone understands and talks to them, it helps ALOT. Seriously, just talking to a suicidal person can save their life.

Suicide isn't selfish, thats seriously rude to say. Suicide is... well, just sad.

Oh, and people with Bipolar Depression can't help suicide. Trust me =/

 

[twocows]

My stepsister hung herself when I was about 8. I was pretty shaken about it, but my brother suffered more since he lived with her. I was suicidal through much of junior high myself. Part of it was that I was on anti-depressants that I didn't need to be on, but also junior high was just a rough time for me. I didn't go through with it, though, because I didn't want to put my family through what they had already been through once. I got through the rough times and came out a stronger person.

As someone who has seen his family affected by suicide, I can say this without any hesitation: it is selfish. If there's something so wrong in your life that you're even thinking about something like that, talk to someone about it. Someone very close to you if possible, but even a complete stranger can help. Try calling a suicide hotline; they're staffed by very responsive and nice people who will listen to you and help you out. Don't give in to a moment's bad judgment and put the ones who love you through hell.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I'm sad when people try to kill themselves...and even sadder when people do but I understand why they are pushed to do so...and it's sad specially when people are the ones who pushed them over the hedge :(

 

[XUMENG34]

I agree that suicide is a kind of selfish thing ,just think what a difficult and hard thing for parents to bring up a kid ,it's not easy for every people who really care you , so if somebody who wanna suicide ,just think for a while .

 

[Devil's Guitarist]

I myself have throught of suicide as a release from a world that I couldn't and still can't fit in. Now I'm still here because of my friend who talked to me and listened me when no one would and a while ago me and my ex "girlfriend" (because she never loved me really) had fought a lot and in the end we broke up... leaving me with only that thought in my head. Suicide happens when people lose everything. For some it means a job, others money, others family, others someone special, etc etc. I think that it's not a good way to end things but sometimes the pain of losing that thing you love so much is too hard to bear.

 

[Rainy Day]

Suicide is cowardly and those who do it are weak. Being a victim of a good level of bullying and having been ostracized for my beliefs, that is what I find people who claim they "can't take it any more" to be.

 

[aruchan]

Suicide is cowardly and those who do it are weak. Being a victim of a good level of bullying and having been ostracized for my beliefs, that is what I find people who claim they "can't take it any more" to be.

It's not a good solution by any means of the word, but one can't say it is selfish, per se. Suicide is just another form of death; I don't think a child who died of a physical illness would be considered selfish. Suicide is almost always caused by a mental disorder.
And that's why you don't take bullying submissively. When I was bullied in sixth grade my parent got involved; however, since I am now in high school, I don't think that would be the best option. But there are always ways to solve things.

 

[.-Notched]

In my school, I'm the bully. Yet I only yelled at a kid for taking my pencil while I was working on a test.

And those who commit suicide have no idea what could be worse than what they're dealing with. Try bring some of the thousands who have died in Japan because of their quake tsunami. Yeah.