Super Smash Bros. Discussion

[Nah]

Something that has gone a bit overlooked here is that there were balance changes in this most recent patch.

https://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-3-patch-notes.425921/

Shulk about half of his kit got damage buffed by .5% and all of his Aerials had their landing lag reduced by two frames.
This makes me happy. ^_^

The most interesting balance change to me was that they increased Mewtwo's dash speed. It's not so much that Mewtwo is now faster on the ground, but the fact that this is, as far as I know, the very first time they've ever changed a character's mobility specs in Smash 4. I (and a lot of other people I'm sure) never thought that the balance team would ever touch something as important as mobility specs.

But they did, and that opens up the possibility that other characters might get mobility buffs/nerfs in the future, which potentially could be huge for that character.

 

[shadowmoon522]

Nah, that doesn't really count. It was intended but wasn't ever licensed, so Cloud doesn't really have any ties to Nintendo, objectively.

With that in mind, I did find his inclusion as a bit of a full-circle deal because of the original intent to have FFVII on the N64. 'S just a fun little thing to see 20ish years later.

kingdom hearts chain of memorys gba
bravely default's sequel playing brage
theatrhythm final fantasy and it's sequel curtain call
he'll be in ff explores when it comes to the 3ds in couple of days

you never know where a "cloud" will show up

 

[Lunalie]

The most interesting balance change to me was that they increased Mewtwo's dash speed. It's not so much that Mewtwo is now faster on the ground, but the fact that this is, as far as I know, the very first time they've ever changed a character's mobility specs in Smash 4. I (and a lot of other people I'm sure) never thought that the balance team would ever touch something as important as mobility specs.

But they did, and that opens up the possibility that other characters might get mobility buffs/nerfs in the future, which potentially could be huge for that character.

I actually found the nerfs to be more interesting, how absorbs and the pocket got majorly nerfed when it's used on ally attacks. I mean, I'm not saying whether or not they're justified or not (I'm no Team Fight expert) but if I'm not mistaken this is the first time they've specifically balanced around team battles.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Something that has gone a bit overlooked here is that there were balance changes in this most recent patch.

https://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-3-patch-notes.425921/

Shulk about half of his kit got damage buffed by .5% and all of his Aerials had their landing lag reduced by two frames.
This makes me happy. ^_^

It's great that Mewtwo and Ganondorf are getting the buffs they deserved; meanwhile, Palutena, Samus, and Zelda get nothing, so I wonder who will replace Mewtwo and Ganondorf as new members of the bottom five?

 

[Nah]

I actually found the nerfs to be more interesting, how absorbs and the pocket got majorly nerfed when it's used on ally attacks. I mean, I'm not saying whether or not they're justified or not (I'm no Team Fight expert) but if I'm not mistaken this is the first time they've specifically balanced around team battles.

Yeah I can't remember them making any changes before specifically for team matches either. Maybe the balance team felt a little adventurous with this patch?

 

[Garison]

Hey guys, does anyone else think Cloud's a bit broken? My sister said that whenever a Cloud player appears online, they win (I don't know if she ever beaten one). He sounds a bit op, though I never faced one myself because I haven't played online yet.

Oh yeah, I got a 3DS and Smash Bros yesturday, and its loads of fun (though my sister's keeps kicking my butt all the time unless I'm Sonic, and I even have some close calls then). Still not ready to take on anyone over the internet though.

 

[shadowmoon522]

Hey guys, does anyone else think Cloud's a bit broken? My sister said that whenever a Cloud player appears online, they win (I don't know if she ever beaten one). He sounds a bit op, though I never faced one myself because I haven't played online yet.

Oh yeah, I got a 3DS and Smash Bros yesturday, and its loads of fun (though my sister's keeps kicking my butt all the time unless I'm Sonic, and I even have some close calls then). Still not ready to take on anyone over the internet though.

whats she using on them?

 

[Garison]

I'm guess its either Kirby or Dark Pit.

 

[Megan]

Hey guys, does anyone else think Cloud's a bit broken? My sister said that whenever a Cloud player appears online, they win (I don't know if she ever beaten one). He sounds a bit op, though I never faced one myself because I haven't played online yet.

Afaik his recovery isn't really that great and the fact that his limit not only occupies the counter spot, but also vanishes as soon as he uses one of his specials (like his recovery move), gives him at least a couple weaknesses. At least that's what I've been told.

Haven't faced one either, because I'm still training offline a little and I don't have any DLCs.

 

[Nah]

It's kinda too early to really tell how good/bad Cloud is. Character's only been out like what, 2 weeks at most? Cloud players are still figuring out how to play him and all his techs, while everyone else is still learning how to best fight him. I've beaten most of the Clouds online I've run into, but that has more to do with them being kinda bad/not knowing how to play Cloud than it being a statement of Cloud's viability. Pretty sure it's also not that it's an MU where Robin blows him out of the water either, I doubt it could be that good for her.

On one hand, he's filled with large disjoints that're on par with Ike's (his Uair and Dair are pretty good), and Limit Break temporarily fixes some of his problems (recovery is improved, Beam Blade becomes transcendent and turns into a multi-hit on impact, Finishing Touch is powerful and covers a wide area, gets a slight mobility boost), and his jab can cross-up. On the other hand, his recovery and his specials are poor without Limit Break, his aerial mobility isn't impressive imo, and he's really unsafe on shield.

What I don't get about Cloud though is why he only speaks Japanese. It's one thing with Marth and Roy, who's entire series was Japan only at the time the were introduced to Smash (in Melee) and that just sorta became their thing, but Cloud's series was out globally by the time Smash 64 was out, and even his own game was released internationally, so.....idgi

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Have any of you guys read the article on how Cloud, Corrin, and Bayonetta got into the roster? According to the article, the reason Corrin was selected was because Sakurai wanted to include a Nintendo character from an upcoming/recently released title, which in that category would include games like Fire Emblem Fates, Splatoon, and Xenoblade Chronicles X. He was hesitant on adding Corrin at first, because he was aware there were too many Fire Emblem reps in the game, because after discussing with the development staff, he gave it the a-ok to begin developing Corrin. I think this pretty much shows that he was never biased towards Fire Emblem when it comes to reps.

 

[acatfrommars]

I want to respond to an earlier post; even with the Nintendo NX I don't believe that we will see another Smash game any tie soon. Super Smash Bros. Brawl was released back in 2008 for the Nintendo Wii, I remember personally because I was at the opening night tournament though I was only in like 5th. grade at the time. Then Smash 4 came out in 2014; that's pretty much a 6 year span between the game. If we see anything about the next Smash Bros. it will probably not be until 2018 at the earliest. UNLESS Sakruai somehow transfers Smash 4 over to the Nintendo NX which maybe could happen, and would boost sales for both the games and NX however we don't even know what the NX will be like yet so maybe Smash 4 wouldn't work as well on the Nintendo NX.

I never thought Sakurai was biased towards Fire Emblem characters either; they just do well as swordsman in Smash tbh. He's not the best for tier, but Ike is in my top 3 for favorite characters to play as. he has been since Brawl.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

I want to respond to an earlier post; even with the Nintendo NX I don't believe that we will see another Smash game any tie soon. Super Smash Bros. Brawl was released back in 2008 for the Nintendo Wii, I remember personally because I was at the opening night tournament though I was only in like 5th. grade at the time. Then Smash 4 came out in 2014; that's pretty much a 6 year span between the game. If we see anything about the next Smash Bros. it will probably not be until 2018 at the earliest. UNLESS Sakruai somehow transfers Smash 4 over to the Nintendo NX which maybe could happen, and would boost sales for both the games and NX however we don't even know what the NX will be like yet so maybe Smash 4 wouldn't work as well on the Nintendo NX.

Two problems: 1) We know next to nothing about what the NX is, or whether it's a new handheld, a new console, or something completely different. Who knows if the 6 year span still stands, considering that Sakurai was in physical pain when developing Smash 4, so he'll need a longer rest. And 2) As hinted in this article criticizing the special edition of the original Star Wars trilogy, Sakurai doesn't enjoy re-releases, so we're not going to have a definitive version of SSB4 on the NX.

 

[Spinosaurus]

If they want sword users they have more options outside Fire Emblem. But it's obvious that's not why Corrin is chosen. They're still largely a meh choice.

Cloud has nowhere to go but up.

 

[shadowmoon522]

Two problems: 1) We know next to nothing about what the NX is, or whether it's a new handheld, a new console, or something completely different. Who knows if the 6 year span still stands, considering that Sakurai was in physical pain when developing Smash 4, so he'll need a longer rest. And 2) As hinted in this article criticizing the special edition of the original Star Wars trilogy, Sakurai doesn't enjoy re-releases, so we're not going to have a definitive version of SSB4 on the NX.

you forgot to mention he's something of a control freak.

 

[acatfrommars]

I know that between Smash 64 and Melee the time was only about 2 years but I feel like the team has so much more to do now for an upcoming game. More characters, more modes, more pressure since Nintendo isn't as strong as they used to be (imo don't chop my head off). I think it will be at least 3 years even if Sakurai is healthy, because they will have to learn the new Nintendo N and adapt accordingly.

Also, if Melee ever came to Wii U, or even the NX then I would cry with joy. Melee is one of my top games of all time, and if Nintendo could add this being exactly the same as it was on the Gamecube but with online capabilities it would be an instant hit.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Online Melee sounds awful. The game is inaccessible at a competent level, then you add input lag to a super precision based fighter and all you got is a disaster.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

There's something I've recently noticed regarding how the Mario series is represented in the Smash roster. I think the reason why we got zero DK reps, and a new Wario rep to a certain extent, in the fourth installment of Smash is because Sakurai considers both franchises as part of the Mario series, and he didn't want to add too many new Mario characters in the roster after Bowser Jr. and Rosalina. Looking back at Source Gaming regarding Melee's development, Sakurai didn't want to add Wario into the roster for fear of having too many Mario characters after adding in Peach and Bowser, though this was before he added Dr. Mario as one of the last-minute clones, making him the exception to the rule. Wario was later added in Brawl's roster alongside with Diddy Kong, and yet the core Mario series gets zero new reps, as it was stuck with Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser. This can seen as Sakurai viewing Diddy and Wario are Mario characters, so characters from the core Mario series who were popular at the time such Bowser Jr. were passed up. And now let's look at how many Mario characters were added in each installment:

64 - Mario and Luigi
Melee - Peach and Bowser (Bonus: Dr. Mario)
Brawl - Wario and Diddy Kong
Smash 4 - Rosalina and Bowser Jr.

It appears that for the most part, the limit number of Mario characters added into the roster is two, which means by the time Smash 5 comes out, expect at least two new Mario characters to be added. I wouldn't be surprised if the core Mario series gets zero reps again (sorry, Toad) and instead those two newcomers will be from the spin-off series (DK, Yoshi, and Wario), so Mario spin-off characters like King K. Rool and Ashley would have a chance of getting in.

 

[Nah]

Is it a fact that Sakurai considers Wario and Donkey Kong characters to be part of the Mario franchise? I'd personally consider them their own franchises at this point, despite their origins. Though you also have Yoshi, who's sorta in the same boat as Wario/DK, but....

(sorry, Toad)

why would anyone even want Toad as a playable character in Smash

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Spoiler:

I thought Cloud would be lower due to his non-Limit Break recovery. Looks like the patch has actually improved Mewtwo, yet it wasn't enough for Ganondorf? And Zelda is still the best and worst character in the game.

Is it a fact that Sakurai considers Wario and Donkey Kong characters to be part of the Mario franchise? I'd personally consider them their own franchises at this point, despite their origins. Though you also have Yoshi, who's sorta in the same boat as Wario/DK, but....

During Melee's development, Sakurai considered Wario as a Mario character despite having his own solo games between SML2 and Melee, much like Yoshi.

why would anyone even want Toad as a playable character in Smash

Because Toad's the last member of the Big 8, as shown from Mario Kart 64's roster, who has yet to become playable. He's also currently the last key-important Mario character.