The EU Referendum

[Ivysaur]

So we actually left the EU so we get rid of Cameron but can we also tell Ms Fishy mc Fishface First minster to shut up about inde 02....

she should also quit... it be a win/win bye bye Cameron and sturgeon....

I'm afraid that the most likely outcome is Scotland quitting England and Wales's sinking ship. In case you didn't notice, "Ms Fishy mc Fishface" got a thumping majority last night and would easily win Indy 02 if the vote is "Choose between staying in the UK or in the EU". You should worry about your bit of Ireland too.
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Cameron said he wants to wait for a successor before triggering Article 50 but the EU institutions are demanding the negotiations start next week. That's going to make things even messier.

 

[Thepokefansophia]

Wait, why does the UK want to leave the EU in the first place? Sorry I just don't understand ^^

There is alot of reasons for people wanting to leave the EU.

For some people its about taking back control from Brussels as its undemocratic and full of unelected members.
Also its about immigration which is one of the biggest concerns
Also its about the fact that we allegedly send 350 million pounds to the eu and we dont have it back whether or not that is false or true I leave it for others to decide.

 

[Kikaito plush]

I'm afraid that the most likely outcome is Scotland quitting England and Wales's sinking ship. You should worry about your bit of Ireland too.

but independent right now so we as a whole should expect thst I'm look at you ms Fish Mc fishface as by the time Inde 02 there will be no EU.

France will vote/netherlands will too...so she should just expect it....

 

[Ivysaur]

There is alot of reasons for people wanting to leave the EU.

For some people its about taking back control from Brussels as its undemocratic and full of unelected members.
Also its about immigration which is one of the biggest concerns
Also its about the fact that we allegedly send 350 million pounds to the eu and we dont have it back whether or not that is false or true I leave it for others to decide.

Obviously, it's quite fascinating to call "undemocratic" a bunch of institutions comprised of MPs elected in elections every 5 years and representatives from the national Governments of each member state. Brussels is as undemocratic as Westminster is for Scotland right now.

Alos, the 350 million pounds is a blatant lie. The real number is less than half, and you know, Manchester also sends millions of pounds to London in taxes every week and don't have it back. That's how budgets work. The claim is absolutely ludicrous.

But the "immigration" point- that is indeed one of the biggest reasons. What it tells about England is up to everybody else to decide.

but independent right now so we as a whole should expect thst I'm look at you ms Fish Mc fishface as by the time Inde 02 there will be no EU.

France will vote/netherlands will too...so she should just expect it....

I think you are buying too many assumptions. I highly doubt France will have a referendum of this sort anytime soon. Unless Marine Le Pen wins, and if Le Pen wins an election, I'm moving to Australia.

Also I don't understand what you are even trying to say in your first line.

 

[Kikaito plush]

Also I don't understand what you are even trying to say in your first line.

sorry must of spelt the word wrong....

what I'm trying to say it's too soon for Inde 02 which is what sturgeon is doing right now she should just let the dust settle first.
as who knows if the UK will be better out of the EU or not...

 

[Thepokefansophia]

Obviously, it's quite fascinating to call "undemocratic" a bunch of institutions comprised of MPs elected in elections every 5 years and representatives from the national Governments of each member state. Brussels is as undemocratic as Westminster is for Scotland right now.

Alos, the 350 million pounds is a blatant lie. The real number is less than half, and you know, Manchester also sends millions of pounds to London in taxes every week and don't have it back. That's how budgets work. The claim is absolutely ludicrous.

But the "immigration" point- that is indeed one of the biggest reasons. What it tells about England is up to everybody else to decide.

Well its very difficult because there are figures being thrown on both sides and its very confusing who is right or wrong. Theses are just what other people have told me but honestly I feel like my British pride is slightly overriding my judgement on this matter as I feel uncomfortable with the eu having control over laws.

But then I suppose the rest of the world needs to accept and respect Britain`s decision to leave the EU as it was done fairly however I feel that these will be difficult and tough times but Britain will pull it`s self through no matter what.

 

[KetsuekiR]

Wouldn't it be great if Trump wins, Boris becomes PM and Le Pen wins? I've honestly never wanted to move to the west less than I do now. :')

-snip-

The UK is looking at thousands of pounds of drops in household GDPs within the next decade, according to HM Treasury and the Bank of England. Honestly, you're unlikely to get more reliable figures than that.

The rest of the world won't "respect" the UK's decision. Like Went stated, the UK has already broken a ton of trade agreements and, I think, is unlikely to restore them all any time soon. Also, your unwavering faith in the power of the British is honestly rather disconcerting.

 

[Ivysaur]

honestly I feel like my British pride is slightly overriding my judgement on this matter as I feel uncomfortable with the eu having control over laws.

And this is possibly the saddest thing to come out of this mess. Nationalism trumps logic. Who cares if those "evil laws" voted by elected British MEPs in Brussels are helping the British economy. Nationalism. Who cares if we are jumping off a cliff, Boris tells me very convincingly that Britain is so awesome we can fly if we try hard enough.

And 15 million people were swayed by it. I want to cry.

 

[Avara]

I love how this thread was just 99% remain voters jumping down the throats of any leave voters immediately. I didn't know being a member of the EU equalled tolerance? GB was a tolerant country before it was a member of the EU and will continue to be after, really sick of seeing people bleat about how all remain voters are xenophobes or racists, as if we're all screaming "LEAD US NIGEL FARAGE!" (which I for one am not, and neither are the vast, vast majority of us), as if the entire thing came about only because of the immigration crisis, or only revolved around, the immigration crisis. When people like myself and others I know who voted to leave did so for entirely different reasons COMPLETELY unrelated. One example; the fact that the majority of Europe has a 35 hour working week and a national living wage, EU regulations. Where Britain as a member of the EU did not follow those "regulations", our government basically did what it liked before we left (40-48hr working week, 0 hr contracts, the hilarity that is Universal Credit), not a lot going to change there now. The fact that we send millions to the EU on a regular basis to receive a percentage back, PAYING to be a member without the so-called "benefits", while still being expected to follow THEIR rules. Jobs being lost? Not going to happen just like that. The UK job market was laughable before we left too, look at us, we have barely any industry to speak of, we have call centers and fast food stores and apprenticeships to become a barista. People who spend years of their life, and attain thousands of pounds in student loan debt, to go to university; only to not be able to get a job related to their degree. National minimum wage so low that some people still have to rely on benefits (again, UC, thanks IDS). Without talking about the NHS, immigration or Scotland, those were just a few of my reasons for voting to leave.

 

[Winter]

Oooooh, I can finally plan my (now-very-affordable) holidays to the UK.

 

[KetsuekiR]

-snip-

I don't understand how leaving the EU would help solve these problems? The UK job market will continue to be laughable and leaving the EU only makes it harder for those with university degrees to find good jobs outside the UK. The British Pound has already fallen by a large amount, hitting lows not seen since the 20th century, and the GDP per household is expected to drop hugely in the coming years. Unfortunately, the UK isn't the great empire it once was. Do tell, though, how leaving helps. (:

 

[Aliencommander1245]

It's really sad because there's little to no benefit from this in any meaningful way? I SUPPOSE immigration could be done with whatever the country wanted but as it had been pointed out ages ago the UK will almost certainly need to keep it's current policies as part of the negotiations/to ensure all the english people living in the EU aren't able to be deported/to keep it's economy in a similar place (Because that's a huge part of why it's a great place to invest in and for companies to be housed)

The leave campaign was full of weird lies and assumptions that're now falling apart, not that the remain campaign did very well at showing how much better it was to stay while it bumbled along.

(Farage's comment on independence day was pretty awful regardless of your leaning though? Not only is it more than a little ironic that it's comparing to the US declaring it's independence from the UK itself but that "without a single bullet being fired" so soon after the shooting and killing of a pro-EU mp is particularly bad)

 

[Electricbluewolf]

I didn't get involved much to begin with but I'll have my say now.

Many, many British residents feel failed by the government. The problem is they see all the immigration, the so called crime, people being made redundant, and blame it somewhere. For a very long time this has been what people have been passionate about, as it felt like the public had some sort of control.

Of course both parties had great scaremongering techniques. And I've seen that table of whom backed what-even though the Leave backers were not great do you think the remain backers where pure people with good intentions? I thought from the start no matter what we do we're screwed.

However what I don't understand is that now I see passionate remain voters. I hardly saw any beforehand but many many leave. And some stuff people are saying-those who voted out should get out, those who voted out are stupid people etc-why not question the people who did vote? Who couldn't be bothered? The people travelling who complained even though they had weeks to register by postal or got someone to do it on their behalf?

I've already seen a petition to have a 2nd vote, but if it was the other way round that remain won would that petition exist from the leave side?

I didn't like Cameron to begin with, and he as the one who promised the referendum when he was campaigning. However I do not like Farage, I'm okay with Boris but don't think he is Prime Minister material.

Don't forget this could take months or years as no country has ever left before. Cameron is leaving in October so a new leader will have to crop up by then, and they might think the opposite or be very against the whole idea

The GBP was going to crash no matter what the result, and even though I don't like Farage at all he did not make any comments about spending 350 million on the NHS, but he should of made a comment about it whilst campaigning (though why do that as that would lose votes?), that would be up the to Chancellor (whoever that is going to be, ha)

Sadly I do not think we will get to vote again-it has taken a lot of time, money, patience, negotiating just to do this one, and it has caused a good rift in political parties. The problem is it will effect the older generation but long term I don't know what it means for my generation or younger, and uncertainty is not a good time to vote.

 

[Eruption]

I'm honestly heartbroken by the result and I believe there are no winners of this referendum save for a few Conservative career politicians who now quickly ascend to the top of the pile. I feel people's anger at the major parties has been wrongly misdirected at the EU and having campaigned over the last few weeks it's plain to see many people have made this vote for the wrong reasons. Whilst I'm sure some people do have genuine concerns about the EU and it is certainly not perfect, many see this simply as a way to reduce immigration as if it is a solution to all of our problems. These voters will eventually be disappointed when they realise little has changed on this front as immigration will still be 200,000+ per year.

Ultimately this potentially sets up the death of UK politics. If Scotland leave and bitter Labour divisions intensify, all that remains is a one party Tory state. People have speculated that this would referendum tear apart the Tories, but ultimately the one major division in their party is now settled and they have already unified together today.

I think there is possibly one positive of all this and that is that it was a great day for democracy with the relatively high turnout.

 

[Arsenic]

I cannot blame him.

If my crew were hell bent on sinking the ship I'd get off at the next port as well.

 

[Somewhere_]

That was certainly something I didn't expect to see. Watch the Pound drop even further now.

I think everyone including pro-Brexits expected the Pound to drop in value following the vote. This will be very interesting how it all plays out. Cameron even resigned due to wanting a leader that will follow the will of the people, which is kinda respectable I guess. However, its really only the will of the 52%...

How are pro-Brexits racist xenophobes? I do not understand that.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

How are pro-Brexits racist xenophobes? I do not understand that.

They aren't all like that, but with the big leave campaign being laser focused on immigration you can see where the discussion went and how it'd give in to that sort of awful rhetoric.

I mean, just look at Limerent and his weird racist/homophobic rants in every thread here that goes on about "The Left" and how "the whites" are somehow standing up to corruption by "the brown mass" designed to make the population bow down or whatever that dribble is on about

 

[Somewhere_]

They aren't all like that, but with the big leave campaign being laser focused on immigration you can see where the discussion went and how it'd give in to that sort of awful rhetoric.

I mean, just look at Limerent and his weird racist/homophobic rants in every thread here that goes on about "The Left" and how "the whites" are somehow standing up to corruption by "the brown mass" designed to make the population bow down or whatever that dribble is on about

I know of and speak to a good amount of alternative-right people (alt-right). To sum it up, its a culture war, not a race war. Huge difference, but its sort of difficult to explain. I can see how many of them look like legit racists, but they really aren't (more homophobic than anything else, but most are either very tolerant or accepting). Hans-Herman Hoppe is a pretty big figure who is an actual homophobe, which many alt-right people disagree with him on that, but certainly not a xenophobe/racist.

The US is a great example (as will the UK) of this culture war. Its not right vs left as much as it is nationalism vs. globalism and Western culture vs. other cultures.

 

[Ivysaur]

We were fine before the EU, we will be fine after it.

Actually, before joining the EU, Britain wasn't exactly fine. In fact, it joined because its economy was doing noticeably worse than the countries that were in.

In 1950, UK's per capita GDP was almost a third larger than the EU6 average; in 1973, it was about 10% below; it has been comparatively stable ever since.

Cry more Spaniard, you'll never get your little rock back.

You say it as if I gave a flying fuck about Gibraltar. I guess stereotypes are much easier to fall back to than actual rational discourse.

Maybe you'd be nationalist if you lived in a country you could be proud of.

Incidentally, if I had to chose a nationality, I'd say I'm a proud European. I guess it's okay if some people prefer sticking to Little England than looking at the bigger picture.

Some things are more important than the short term economic impact, namely sovereignty and a homogeneous, peaceful country. I do not want 1400 children being molested by Pakistanis being swept under the rug for fear of racism, nor Poles taking all the low skilled jobs and undercutting wages

So you are a racist. Okay, glad we solved that issue. And data does prove that evil Poles drive down unskilled jobs' wages by 0.5%, which I guess it's absolutely terrible. It's absolutely insane that you want to put so many things at risk -such as the financial sector in the City, exports to the EU and the freedom for you to move to any other EU country- in exchange for increasing low skilled workers' wages by 0.5%.

Brussels does not represent Britain.

And yet the British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999, 2,466-56, so I guess Brussels DOES represent the British Government well enough. 98% at least.

^Affirmative action just because you're a different skin colour. Who's this going to be disadvantaged? White working class brits.

And who will be advantaged? Non-white working class Brits, who tend to be poorer than their white counterparts and therefore need more help.

Re-education camps. Wew lad, what does this remind me of?

It reminds me of the Republicans' deranged cries of "Obamacare will create Death Panels that will dedcide to murder your gradma!!!" That's what your reaction reminds me of.

When you've lived around blacks, arabs, aborigines, pacific islanders etc. you'll learn that not all cultures are created equal.

That is a really scary, unscientific and racist thing to say.

As evidenced by the surges of popular support for Trump, Le Pen, Frauke Petry, Geert Wilders, Farage etc. white middle class people across Europe and the West are realising that the left and the global elites do not represent our wellbeing and want to destroy us, to be replaced with an easily manipulable brown mass who will work for peanuts and doesn't have a clue what a "right" is. We have to live in fear of violent crime and terrorism from these groups, watching our once peaceful countries erode to third world status in front of our very eyes and if we dare to speak up we lose our jobs or in some cases be criminally charged.

Our peaceful countries. Europe. Peaceful. When were you born, again? The last war in mainland Europe was barely 20 years ago. We used to have wars every 10 years in average, without "evil brown muslims" or whatever crap you are terrified of.

I know any response to this will come up with a billion links saying how wrong, evil and bigoted I am.

Your own words.

Well guess what, today YOU were wrong. All the masters degree smug bastards, tv hosts, politicians and washed up celebrities who were 100% sure of the result and blatantly tried to dictate to us our own interests got pwned.

It's really sad to see someone saying "Ha! You kept saying we shouldn't jump off that cliff- well, you know what, we did!! :DDD Now the country is 17% poorer overnight but whatever! Celebration!"

The fact that our arguments lost sadly doesn't mean that we were wrong. Just that people would rather vote based on nationalism than actual rational facts.

Half the country disagrees with you. Keep going pushing your insidious agenda though, maybe you'll be able to tell me if you really are conscious for a few seconds after being decapitated by the guillotine.

I hope you are not endorsing the murder of people who disagree with you.

 

[Grey Wind]

I'm shocked. Everything that can be said has been said, really, but I just wanted to throw out the 75% of people under the age of twenty five voted remain. It's horrifying to see the younger generation's future thrown into turmoil because of a racist fear campaign.

the left and the global elites do not represent our wellbeing and want to destroy us, to be replaced with an easily manipulable brown mass who will work for peanuts and doesn't have a clue what a "right" is.