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The EU Referendum

Arsenic

[div=font-size: 18px; font-family: 'Kaushan script
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  • I really hope this isn't echoed in the US vote. Isolationism will be the death of humanity. As I've said over and over our only hope is unity.
     
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  • I'm shocked. Everything that can be said has been said, really, but I just wanted to throw out the 75% of people under the age of twenty five voted remain. It's horrifying to see the younger generation's future thrown into turmoil because of a racist fear campaign.

    In case if people were wondering, these were the preferences between age demographics:
    Spoiler:


    As you can see, with the Leave choice (which won of course) it was most favored by over-65's which populated most of the country areas outside of London, where younger people resided. There was a 12% difference between 50-64 year-olds and over-65's in terms of favoring Leave, with over-65's favoring Leave 20% more than the 18-24 year-old demographic.

    If I were someone voting in this referendum, I would have most likely voted Remain on the basis that I'm in the 18-24 demographic and the fact that I live in a city area rather than the country.
     

    Controversial?

    Bored musician, bad programmer
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    • Seen Oct 11, 2020
    Okay so since I started this thread, I've been kind of hovering over it for ages, but haven't said anything. I think all the points that I wanted to make have already been made by a few people here, so I just wanted to add what my personal reaction on Facebook was when I found out Leave were the majority.


    Frankly, I'm terrified.

    Terrified that due to the pound being so low ($1.35 as of right now) and our economic power diminishing (we're now 6th in the world, with France having just overtaken us), we'll end up in another recession that will affect my generation the most harshly.

    Terrified that with the resignation of Cameron, we will have a Conservative government that is completely free to strip workers of what little rights they have left, to privatise and violate the NHS until it's completely unrecognisable.

    Terrified not just for me and my own prospects, but that some of my friends at university - many of them EU citizens - will be forced to leave the country. Our freedom to move and work in the EU has been taken from us, and as a musician, that leaves me in a position where many of my options for a career have been stripped away.

    But most of all, I'm terrified that a country that used to promote multiculturalism, diversity, peace and integration - a country I used to be proud of - has become a bastion of fear, bigotry and hatred. A country that I, as the child of an immigrant, no longer feel comfortable being a citizen of.

    I'm fucking terrified.

    Fuck "Great" Britain, and fuck everything that today has shown we stand for.

    As much as I'd like there to be a second referendum due to the fact that Leave won by such a small margin (a margin smaller than what is deemed acceptable when the EU votes on articles), the problem is that a second referendum does go against what would be considered good democratic practice, especially since there was no mention of a second referendum that was to be held in case the margin was too small.
     
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    Lokiepie

    ooh...Cake!
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  • However, the general outlook believes that some of the leave party were mislead over funding going to the NHS. Because of this, most consider that this is outside good general democratic practice, hence for the move to Revote. Although I would love for it to happen, still surprised people never saw this comin, I don't think it will pull through.

    Also your previous post struck a chord with me :( I could not have put it better.

    You'll have to forgive the horrid mistypes, my phone is slower than a snail trying to crawl backwards on a moving tortoise.
     
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    Electricbluewolf

    Bᴇ pıɟɟǝɹǝuʇ
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  • I'm shocked. Everything that can be said has been said, really, but I just wanted to throw out the 75% of people under the age of twenty five voted remain. It's horrifying to see the younger generation's future thrown into turmoil because of a racist fear campaign.


    As much as I agree that younger people need a voice in politics (as older generations seem to conveniently forget that it effects us more than it does them) that poll was only taken by just under 1700 people, which is nothing in terms of a nation wide survey, and to make a swiping statement like that is exactly what both parties would use to campaign. If the poll was hundreds of thousands then yes, it should be taken more into account.
     

    Leviathan

    [span="font-family:ubuntu; color: whitesmoke; padd
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  • I ain't gonna lie; I'm scared. Scared for what's going to happen. Of what might develop up north especially. They're going to reintroduce border controls, rendering Ireland in the wake of the Brexit the only county to be simultaneously inside and outside of the EU at the same time. Like that's not going to strain things more than they are being tested at the moment.

    For certain, I'll be watching the fallout of this catastrophe very closely from here on out. In particular, what becomes of Ireland/England relationships. Yay for the pound weakening against the euro. Nay for all of our farmers who're gonna lose out on exporting across the irish sea.

    And that feels like it's but the tip of the iceberg.
     

    pkmin3033

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    ...there is a terrifying amount of hyperbole and speculation in this thread. This escalated pretty quickly.

    Now that I've calmed down a bit and had a chance to think about it, I'm more interested to see what is going to happen in the future than I am worried. The uncertainty of it is rather bad for the economy, to be sure, but the longer term implications are definitely interesting. It's not necessarily going to be a bad thing...well, entirely a bad thing. I still think we would have been better off in the EU, which is why I voted Remain, but since we're coming out...well, I'm actually looking forward to seeing how the politicians are going to handle all this. Call it twisted sado-masochism, but well...it's a new, unprecedented situation. Lots of theories and speculation, but I don't think we'll know either way until things actually start happening to demonstrate these changes.

    ...yes, I tell myself these things so I can sleep at night.

    I'm also happy David Cameron is gone; I've never liked the man. Although I'm not happy people are speculating Boris Johnson could replace him, because I like him even less. Not wholly relevant and never would I say leaving the EU was a good way to get rid of him, because that would be silly, but nonetheless, you take what victories you can in these scenarios. For good or ill, the UK is heading towards change of some kind. Should be...interesting.

    ...and if it all goes badly at least can blame our elders for putting us in this position. They fuck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do.
     
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    5,983
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  • Britain's global influence can only decrease now that it's exited the EU right? This might just be the latest step in a sixty-year decline from prominence to relative obscurity. What could Britain actually be without the EU?

    Also this just solidifies Canada as best Anglo country lol
     

    «Chuckles»

    Sharky
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    It's quite interesting to all this. Scotland, if wishing, decides to place another referendum to secede I guess they'll probably get it. Northern Ireland could probably do the same although it would be for the wrong reason. Britain leaving the EU sets a great precedent for other countries who leaving the EU might be a thought in the back of their minds that hey we can leave too, they did it so can we. Now the UK is one of the top three contributors into the EU with the other two being France and Germany. Without the UK, France and Germany need to pick up the slack in order for things to stay the same. No longer being under the EU, England no longer needs to appease Immigration Quotas or go to a higher body when it comes to trade. They are free to trade with whoever they like now. I am quite sure that England will be fine and the European Union is a sinking ship of debt and cultural degredation. For those upset by the decision well this is democracy, we are playing by a fair game so we cannot be sore losers about this.
     
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    we are playing by a fair game so we cannot be sore losers about this.

    I wouldn't argue with this normallyy, but I'm not sure this was fair. The leave campaign were not very open with what was 100%, what was a 'maybe' and how these changes were goign to be implemented. A lot of people voted for HUGE change with minimal information (and some misinformation) and I don't think that translates to a 'fair' 'game'.
     

    Lokiepie

    ooh...Cake!
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  • I have to agree with @Mana. I am not being sore but I am a little ticked off now that a bunch of Leave voters have come forward and said 'Crap. This is not what I wanted and if I had realised then what I know now, I would have voted differently.'

    The promises that were made to the leave voters have already been back tracked. The funding which was promised to the NHS is nowhere to be seen, whilst, the voters with chose Leave due to immigration laws are now pissed because leaving isn't going to change a thing. Although this may seem obvious to some, some of the Leave voters didn't see this coming. It is not just the Remain voters who are complaining and you are calling 'sore losers' but some of the Leave voters are now joining in on the whole internet annoyed rant.

    Furthermore, Farage said that a 52/48 divide was unfinished business and would result in a second referendum, which is another thing he has suddenly decided to ignore and deny ever saying.
    The fact that there were multiple 'mistakes' and 'misunderstandings' through their campaign, does not make for a Fair vote.
     
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  • I wouldn't argue with this normallyy, but I'm not sure this was fair. The leave campaign were not very open with what was 100%, what was a 'maybe' and how these changes were goign to be implemented. A lot of people voted for HUGE change with minimal information (and some misinformation) and I don't think that translates to a 'fair' 'game'.

    I have to agree with @Mana. I am not being sore but I am a little ticked off now that a bunch of Leave voters have come forward and said 'Crap. This is not what I wanted and if I had realised then what I know now, I would have voted differently.'

    The promises that were made to the leave voters have already been back tracked. The funding which was promised to the NHS is nowhere to be seen, whilst, the voters with chose Leave due to immigration laws are now pissed because leaving isn't going to change a thing. Although this may seem obvious to some, some of the Leave voters didn't see this coming. It is not just the Remain voters who are complaining and you are calling 'sore losers' but some of the Leave voters are now joining in on the whole internet annoyed rant.

    Furthermore, Farage said that a 52/48 divide was unfinished business and would result in a second referendum, which is another thing he has suddenly decided to ignore and deny ever saying.
    The fact that there were multiple 'mistakes' and 'misunderstandings' through their campaign, does not make for a Fair vote.

    To be fair, that's democracy at work. People vote with their guts, not with their heads. The quality of the rule depends on the quality of the rulers, so it shouldn't be surprising that people are regretting their poorly thought out vote already.
     

    Desert Stream~

    Holy Kipper!
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    I wish Britan voted to stay :( If Scotland votes independance I will be happy :)
    I wish people took more time to think before they voted, but nope, everything just keeps getting worse IMO, because everyone is voting bad decisions.
     

    «Chuckles»

    Sharky
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    I wouldn't argue with this normallyy, but I'm not sure this was fair. The leave campaign were not very open with what was 100%, what was a 'maybe' and how these changes were goign to be implemented. A lot of people voted for HUGE change with minimal information (and some misinformation) and I don't think that translates to a 'fair' 'game'.

    I was just talking about in reference to democracy. For some people to maybe whine for another referendum until the vote goes in their favour just defeats the purpose of the free vote.
     

    Mewtwolover

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  • http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-000-target-hours-Brexit-result.html#comments

    found this on the dailymail and thought I share is

    it appears the remainers are trying an SNP by calling a second referendum because they didn't like we voted out.
    Mainstream media has completely ignored the fact that that petition is invalid because you don't need to be british in order to sign it, you can see that there's signatures from many countries here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215.json


    Mana said:
    I wouldn't argue with this normallyy, but I'm not sure this was fair. The leave campaign were not very open with what was 100%, what was a 'maybe' and how these changes were goign to be implemented. A lot of people voted for HUGE change with minimal information (and some misinformation) and I don't think that translates to a 'fair' 'game'.
    Was the remain campaign 100% open then?
     

    Ivysaur

    Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
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  • Mainstream media has completely ignored the fact that that petition is invalid because you don't need to be british in order to sign it, you can see that there's signatures from many countries here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215.json

    Well, it's an official petition from the official website and you do need to be British OR to legally reside in Britain to sign it. I'm afraid it's as official, legal and valid as it gets, despite your wishes.

    Alsdo it seems Corbyn is not going to survive this month.
     
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    Mewtwolover

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  • Well, it's an official petition from the official website and you do need to be British OR to legally reside in Britain to sign it. I'm afraid it's as official, legal and valid as it gets, despite your wishes.
    Just checked the sign page and LOL'd to this form:
    ou8tbCG.png


    Hard to believe that it's official and legit because there isn't any kind of authentication required.
     

    Nihilego

    [color=#95b4d4]ユービーゼロイチ パラサイト[/color]
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  • It's legit. There are thousands of petitions on that site which the government actively responds to and (if there are enough signatures) considers debating. It's not legally binding or representative of any actual guarantee or vote, though, which I assume is why the verification is pretty loose. I imagine they're pretty aware that it's just mostly just slacktivists who sign those things.

    Anyway, I really hate the idea of a 2nd referendum. I was vehemently pro-Remain and I think that leaving the EU was a terrible, terrible decision which is going to thoroughly mess things up for a lot of people for a long time, but it was democratic at least. Very much so. Everyone who bothered to vote got their say regardless of where they live or how those around them voted (constrast against the broken FPTP system). Regardless of how happy or unhappy we are with the outcome, it is a complete insult to democracy to make a petition calling for a re-vote just because you lost, and I'm pretty shocked that so many people are okay with this.

    The only argument I could see for a re-vote is that the Leave voters have been lied to by Nigel Farage and his chums about the £350m/week injection into the NHS (as he publically admitted on television), along with other now-emerging lies from the Leave campaign, and so you could argue that the whole thing was deceptive and that the Leave voters were misinformed. Thing is, though, this is pretty commonplace in politics anyway; most politicians don't actually follow through with their promises, so you could extend this argument to everything - including callng for another general election.

    ...which is what I'm gonna talk about now, actually! Since David Cameron's resignation I've seen a load of people calling for a general election which is another kneejerk reaction from the Remain camp that I hate. Like, I get it, everyone hates Boris Johnson and my skin crawls at the idea of him being PM - but in the last general election we elected the Conservatives, not David Cameron. People complaining about the possibility of having a PM that we didn't elect should remember that we won't technically elect our PMs anyway. We voted Conservative, and we will still have Conservative. I hate the Conservatives, but again, it's what we voted for and - despite how broken the voting system that got the Conservatives into power is - it's fair. When we get a new Conservative PM after David Cameron steps down, it's fair because we voted for the Conservative Party, not David Cameron.


    sooo I guess my stance on the whole thing right now is that, yes, it's completely shit. But everything that's happening, aside from the lies being exposed by Leave leaders, has been voted on and is happening accordingly. All these calls for new rules and second referendums and etc. are just angry people throwing tantrums. Yes, they have a right to be angry (and I too am very angry about this because I know full well that my career is going to need some serious redirection thanks to us having left the EU, among the other general "vote Remain" arguments), but it's embarrassing that they're channelling that anger into trying to undermine democracy.

    e:
    The 2nd top Google UK result after the vote: "what is the EU"

    http://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-the-eu-trends-on-google-in-the-uk-as-the-country-votes-to-leave/

    Some people did their democracy backwards.

    Yes, that immediately looks concerning, but you can't exclude that this is from young people who don't understand what's going on or the 30% of people who didn't vote. I'd definitely have been Googling that two days ago in my early teenage years.
     
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