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The PCNation

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  • The issue is it creates welfare dependency. This article does not use the US, but England: https://www.cato.org/blog/how-welfare-state-traps-poor-dependency-british-version

    You never explain these links, so I don't know how they contribute to your argument.

    I never said anything about the not government creating a law that said companies had to label GMO's and other stuff in their food/products.

    Government can create laws - but how do you expect them to be enforced?

    Why does government have to build roads? https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/take-public-private-road-efficiency This article also describes how when the government runs things, they lack innovation. Nothing new.

    The article also assumes those things, and doesn't explain them.

    You also mention how it will protect the environment. With a free market, people will begin to stop buying from the companies that ruin the environment. The companies that provide clean energy, or ruin the environment less will be bought from more. As a result, the environment stays safe.

    Like how our environment stayed safe from pesticides in the 1960's and how pesticide use just stopped without government intervention, right? Like how people are choosing to reduce their carbon emissions because of the free market, right?

    Can you please explain how your Democratic Socialism allows for small companies to grow despite the large company monopoly?

    Read my post.

    And it's not even like there should be no competition in those resource industries at all - far from it. We can allow competition to keep such a large company on its toes. Furthermore, shares of the business can be freely sold as long as the government has the majority stake.

    So not a monopoly. And not in all industries, just specific resource industries.

    Also, I disagree with the notion that capitalism and socialism are necessarily distinct systems. I don't want to advocate for either extremes when what I think is best is a middle ground.
     

    Thepowaofhax

    Spectre
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    • Seen May 29, 2017
    I sincerely hope this won't be a tie. In fact, if there is one, will there be a tiebreaker?
     

    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

    10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
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  • Alright, I voted for Representative Democracy, but would like those Representatives voted in by popular vote over electoral college, and like in many Latin American countries one will need 51 percent of the vote or there will be a run off.

    Btw I must say we've done a pretty good job at mimicking a real life government...we can't agree on anything...and have to call things to vote.
     

    Thepowaofhax

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    Hail, Comrades! I do believe the Capitalist Representative Democracy has won! Do we start on our constitution, or do we wait a few days to see if anyone else beats Capitalism out?
     
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  • I'm really sorry but I'm going to have to extend the voting phase a bit longer. I'm not able to properly write the information for the next part of the event right now.
     

    Sopheria

    響け〜 響け!
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  • I went with Direct Democracy. Having the entire population voting on every single thing is a lot of work, but it's ultimately worth it, because legislative decisions are best left to the people who are affected by them.

    And obviously, the constitution of the PC Nation will be important in limiting the kinds of laws that can be made if it ends up being a direct democracy, because of the whole "5 wolves and 4 sheep voting on what's for dinner" thing.
     
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  • I went with Direct Democracy. Having the entire population voting on every single thing is a lot of work, but it's ultimately worth it, because legislative decisions are best left to the people who are affected by them.

    And obviously, the constitution of the PC Nation will be important in limiting the kinds of laws that can be made if it ends up being a direct democracy, because of the whole "5 wolves and 4 sheep voting on what's for dinner" thing.

    I disagree with direct democracy because any kind of vote should be discussed in a public forum. I think it's rather pointless to vote on something that hasn't been debated, and a debate is pointless if it doesn't involve a representative group of people. In the modern world, there are a lot of complex issues that have to be figured out for a country, many of which requires expertise that the average person simply doesn't have. Heck, the average parliamentarian doesn't have that expertise either, since they tend have a group of advisors that can inform them about the issue at hand. But at least there's a mechanism to get that expert information explained in a clear way that's just not feasible for the average joe.

    I believe that there should be input from the people - obviously, their experiences and desires should be consulted. I believe there is a place for direct democracy for decisions that most people can easily understand with life experience and a high school education. But direct democracy should not be the default way of making decisions when there are issues too complex for the average citizen to understand. We want to balance the need to make decisions that reflects the peoples' desire and the need to make, well, good decisions and I believe that direct democracy neglects the latter.
     

    Sopheria

    響け〜 響け!
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  • I disagree with direct democracy because any kind of vote should be discussed in a public forum. I think it's rather pointless to vote on something that hasn't been debated, and a debate is pointless if it doesn't involve a representative group of people. In the modern world, there are a lot of complex issues that have to be figured out for a country, many of which requires expertise that the average person simply doesn't have. Heck, the average parliamentarian doesn't have that expertise either, since they tend have a group of advisors that can inform them about the issue at hand. But at least there's a mechanism to get that expert information explained in a clear way that's just not feasible for the average joe.

    I believe that there should be input from the people - obviously, their experiences and desires should be consulted. I believe there is a place for direct democracy for decisions that most people can easily understand with life experience and a high school education. But direct democracy should not be the default way of making decisions when there are issues too complex for the average citizen to understand. We want to balance the need to make decisions that reflects the peoples' desire and the need to make, well, good decisions and I believe that direct democracy neglects the latter.

    That is a good point...but who's to say that people can't debate and discuss things amongst themselves in a direct democracy? I think those a few of the points of contention that keep direct democracy from being as widespread as it could be. But when you think about it, when we vote for "experts" in a representative democracy, we're the ones deciding who qualifies as an expert and who doesn't--or for that matter, we're even deciding whether or not we even care about "expertise" in a particular subject. So if I had to choose personally, I'd go for cutting out the middle man and giving decisions directly to the citizens.
     
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  • That is a good point...but who's to say that people can't debate and discuss things amongst themselves in a direct democracy? I think those a few of the points of contention that keep direct democracy from being as widespread as it could be. But when you think about it, when we vote for "experts" in a representative democracy, we're the ones deciding who qualifies as an expert and who doesn't--or for that matter, we're even deciding whether or not we even care about "expertise" in a particular subject. So if I had to choose personally, I'd go for cutting out the middle man and giving decisions directly to the citizens.

    It's not the same. Have you ever gone to a tutorial in university where nobody in the class prepared for it? It's painful, really. Can we count on the average citizen to have a meaningful discussion about law, foreign policy, or the economy? Heck, can we count on the population to first come up with a budget and then vote on it?

    You make that distinction between being an expert and deciding who qualifies an experts, and I think that's exactly the reason we have middlemen. Just because I can choose who I think has the most expertise as a doctor or a plumber or a home renovator doesn't make me an expert in any of those fields. I think that's even more reason to pick experts, which you characterize as the middleman.

    Furthermore, in a representative democracy, our representatives' jobs is to debate and discuss. That's how it worked in Ancient Greece as well. I believe that, in order to make good decisions, you have to actually stake out some time and effort to formally discuss something. Given that we all have jobs and private lives, it's impossible for us to dedicate as much effort to public life as should be required of those people who end up making decisions for all of us. Whatever deliberation we do make as citizens will not have the same quality as those who spend their days deliberating, and deliberation - as we know in everyday life - is key to making good decisions.

    Not caring about expertise is a recipe for disaster. I concede that there are decisions where expertise isn't as necessary. But the world we live in and the governance of that world is becoming more and more complex. Social, economic, health, trade, administrative, and foreign policy are all interconnected in ways that I, personally, feel is overwhelming for me to figure out without dedicated study. In this context, for the public to decide that they don't care about expertise would be the greatest irresponsibility. I would not want to live in a system where one feels that their ignorance is validated by the institution of democracy.
     
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  • I get your point Kanzler, that's why i was talking about a direct democracy with official advisors, people with experience for the people to consult with. If you can please take a look at the first post i made here.

    That seems extremely inefficient to me. I can't see how that would possibly work when scaled up to the size of even a small country.
     
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