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To what extent is feminism relevant today?

Caaethil

#1 Greninja Fan
501
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7
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You're not wrong when you that men have problems. They do. But I think your frustrations are misdirected, which is understandable. Feminism is something that is often misunderstood and vilified. This isn't a game of Who Has It the Worst, but rather an advocacy movement trying to solve problems faced by a specific gender. Just because you personally don't see a place in that movement doesn't mean you're being excluded, ignored, or persecuted.

I think it makes perfect sense to feel excluded from a movement claiming to fight for equal rights, which most of the time just fights for women's rights in a society where a movement purely for women's rights is no longer necessary. I like to think we're just putting the finishing touches on equal rights in the grand scheme of things - women have already gained the major rights that made the first and second waves fought for. The third wave, in my view, is complaining about petty things that are issues for both genders. Feminism is not a movement anymore, it's an ideology and it doesn't make any sense that it's fighting for women's rights alone.

In my experience many of men's problems stem from other men. For instance I am gay man. I am treated as less-than by other men because of my sexuality. Straight men see me as "female-like" because I am attracted to men like a straight woman would be. To them, this is a bad thing. Support from feminists would be helpful in solving this problem, because they argue being female and feminine is not a bad thing. There's more to it than that, but that's just an example and one angle to a multifaceted problem.

I've already discussed how feminism can help men. Not all men's issues can be solved be feminism. I'm not talking about this again unless somebody brings a fresh response to what I've said.

The feminist movement has been around for hundreds of years. Is that not long enough for a meaning to change over time? Additionally, it's only going to change faster as the Internet makes the transmission of ideas virtually instantaneous. There is no conference where feminists sit down every year and decide on a platform. It is a constantly evolving field of discussion and study.

The feminist 'movement' came in three waves, and the third is more like an ideology with no real goal but 'equality'. It's not been a constant movement for all of those years.

There are indeed many branches of feminism (white feminism vs. intersectional feminism, for instance). I will concede that. However, it would be very foolish to dislike an entire group of people just because you disagree with a fraction of them.

I don't dislike an entire group of people, I dislike feminism because it excludes men who have just as many issues as women do. I also dislike men's rights activists, if that helps.

It isn't wrong, it's simplified. You can't rely on a Google definition when there are entire libraries worth of information on this topic that discuss all of the nuances of it. That's lazy. Do your research and make a truly educated decision.

I'm not relying on a Google definition, I'm just making a point. Feminism has zero to do with men's rights. Just because you support men's rights doesn't mean feminism does.

Also, isn't the decision to fight for men's rights as well an evolution? Why wouldn't that be a branch of feminism that you would support?

Because fighting for equal rights for both genders isn't feminism and it isn't what I'm targeting. It makes no sense for it to be called feminism, and when it is, 99% of the time it still has the 'women have less rights than men' undertone, and that's why I argue with it.

When you get thousands of people in discussion on a particular topic, they're only going to agree broadly at best. That's just human nature. Even organized political parties have individual variations in beliefs. But, again, writing off an entire group because you disagree with a fraction of it is foolish. Especially when, quite honestly, the vast majority of that group means you no harm.

Feminism isn't a group, it's an ideology I disagree with. Even those that support men's rights have that idea I stated above the women still get the short end of the stick in oh so many ways. That's why I dislike feminism.

And no, I do not believe the majority of feminists fight for men's rights, if that's what you're purporting. And I won't believe that until it's proven to me because it's called feminism, and historically, feminism has fought for women's rights and I see no reason for that to have suddenly changed.
 

Lucid

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I'm not being round about about anything. It doesn't matter what my opinion is or how I put it, you're going to find fault in whatever I say or be put off by the way I say it because I'm disagreeing with you. You hate feminism and can are entitled to believe whatever you want. But shouting out issues over one another and saying "so what if you deal with a, b, c?" "I have to deal with x, y, z" isn't really productive. You're just playing imaginary tit for tat. If I say something is a problem for me, you can call it petty all you want, but it's only petty to you and you're day to day experiences and what you've read online, because I don't think any of the sexism, sexual harassment or violence, I've experienced and people have been able to get away with isn't a big deal. How society deals with those things is still a problem.

It's not just feminist. Women are capable of misogyny and sexism just like everyone else. Women can slut shame, reinforce harmful stereotypes and gender roles, and it's often dismissed. I'm not being mean, I already said I catch myself doing these things, and it's already been said that some feminist are guilty of gate keeping.
 
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Caaethil

#1 Greninja Fan
501
Posts
7
Years
I'm not being round about about anything. It doesn't matter what my opinion is or how I put it, you're going to find fault in whatever I say or be put off by the way I say it because I'm disagreeing with you. You hate feminism and can are entitled to believe whatever you want.

This is extremely agitating to read and is not true in the slightest. My posts are testament to that, you just need to read them. I've said multiple times that I agree with some feminist ideas, how you can turn that into "you just don't like what I'm saying because I'm a feminist" is beyond me.

But shouting out issues over one another and saying "so what if you deal with a, b, c?" "I have to deal with x, y, z" isn't really productive. You're just playing imaginary tit for tat. If I say something is a problem for me, you can call it petty all you want, but it's only petty to you and you're day to day experiences and what you've read online, because I don't think any of the sexism, sexual harassment or violence, I've experienced and people have been able to get away with isn't a big deal. How society deals with those things is still a problem.

It is quite the double standard to not care about my issues as a male, and in the same breath tell me I need to respect that your problems are a big deal to you and that makes them a problem that should be dealt with. It's not that I'm trying to one up your issues with mine, it's that if feminists can't respect men's issues I won't respect theirs. It's this attitude that everything is so terrible for women in society that makes me hate feminism, because this attitude detracts from real issues, which affect both genders. Even if some feminists do care about men's issues, they're still feminists because they have this idea. They care significantly more about womens' issues because of this idea that they're still inferior in the eyes of the system.

It's not just feminist. Women are capable of misogyny and sexism just like everyone else. Women can slut shame, reinforce harmful stereotypes and gender roles, and it's often dismissed. I'm not being mean, I already said I catch myself doing these things, and it's already been said that some feminist are guilty of gate keeping.

Men are capable of sexism against men. Do you care about my problems as a male yet?
 

Lucid

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That's not how I'm intending to come off, but I think I've been consistently polite to everyone in this thread. I said that the problems I've experienced aren't petty, not that yours were insignificant. I never said that I didn't care about your problems either. You said that I was just being mean to women and I clarified what I meant, again, I'm not saying that sexism isn't a problem for men either.
 

Caaethil

#1 Greninja Fan
501
Posts
7
Years
That's not how I'm intending to come off, but I think I've been consistently polite to everyone in this thread. I said that the problems I've experienced aren't petty, not that yours were insignificant. I never said that I didn't care about your problems either. You said that I was just being mean to women and I clarified what I meant, again, I'm not saying that sexism isn't a problem for men either.

I think that what I meant to say is that they're petty compared to the issues feminists used to fight for. Back in the day, there were major inequalities which left women all but unable to succeed in the same ways men could. That isn't the case anymore.

Back when the first and second wave feminist movements were around, women simply got the short end of the stick in society in just about every way. That's why society needed feminism.

Now that both men and women suffer more minor inequalities in roughly equal measure, it seems petty to me that feminism exists, and I find the constant talk of all of the issues females suffer from petty because nobody seems to care about men's issues. Female discrimination is still a hot topic and discrimination against males is left in the dust. And yes, I absolutely blame feminism for that. Because any of you who do want to fight discrimination of men do not speak for feminism, and I staunchly believe that feminism as a whole, over recent years, has been more destructive than it has constructive. It has spread myths and lies which have caused so many to now agree with ideas that would give the impression that we're back in the 19th century and the longer that goes on the less men's issues are given any attention to, and that's plain sexist.
 
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^

Womanist theory, developed by Alice Walker, is a body of intersubjective research (study of multiple subjects, their similarities and differences) that addresses the inability of women (and men) to define gender identity on their own terms. This theory has been applied to other domains of identity.

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Womanism was made by the federal government in order to damage lives between men and women. People like Gloria Stienem was recruited from proverty in order to betray the male species to destroy the negro AKA the barack-man.

Stienem wrote a book and even had an African decent woman of the name of Michele Wallace.

Michele Wallace right now a proffessor in a CUNY college of NYC. Again not a real job but government funded ( blood money ) job where she continues to be a proffessor. When it was found that her book was really written by Stienem she had "fainted"

I know monsters from my own time in college compared to the two creeps I just mentioned. They are neither black or white. They come pretending to be a minority and push themselves to the media centre as much as possible in order to achieve what Stienem had recieved.

Being paid by the government to lie.

Who also does this?

I will tell you who? When the USSR federation was invading Kazakhstan. They even pushed to manipulate professors to convince there comrades/brothers to join in arms. The pre-wrote words (speechs ) for these respected men and women to read. Even now there are problems. Look at the creator of RT and how he was mobbed and beaten to death for all the honest work he was doing. RT told people about the segregation of women in Israel by making them sterile.

Again being paid by a government to lie. Womanism is the worship of women, the hoar. The Jezebel. Womanism. It is a false goddess. It is like the hoar on the logo of Starbucks. Again womanist are women worshiping women.

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The goal of womanism is to allow local communities of individuals to define themselves and identities rather than having a monolithic society define women paternalistically. The goal is to "degrade" hegemony in societal and political spheres in order to eradicate superiority or inferiority based on "grouping" of people.

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Black Womanists want to escape the "everyday black woman's" experience in the US and rather want to create their own experience and identity -- basically they want to exist freely from white-male dominance.

Gloria Steinem might have been Jewish but she is no black person. Remember she wrote her evil book and use new found "Funds" to manipulate the masses. Just as she was based in India as a henchmen for the supremacy powers.

In order for this individuality to be achieved, smaller communities need to have some autonomy and the power to define themselves.

Meaning to make the voting masses into dumb garbage they have turned into today. No more Dr. Martian Luther King Jr. marches. No more "We need to assemble on capital hill". Even the original feminist quota is gone from Womanism.

Womanist theory allows for women to be self-defining of what womanhood is to themselves; so yes, women DO want power, but not the power to control others' bodies as does patriarchy, racism, and the culmination of the two.

Meaning I could think whatever bs I want to think. Like how many morons think they are another culture without knowing the language or history. Or people think they could have jobs that is not in high demand. Or how college is the only place that is hiring.

Womanists want women to be able to control their own bodies and minds; otherwise, women, are being violated -- period.

Wrong. This means to destroy the original woman and cast her into flames so that she will be disobedient and disagreeing with her husband/spouse. or whoever the alpha male of the family was/is at that time. A man has a right to his woman and if the woman is not for the family then she might as be committing suicide to her nature. Guess what? Another idea is that other religious groups on purposely wanted to destroy the family values of the American people. Why?

To distract them from the supremacy, racism, and push families apart. How do you make an omlet? You break a few eggs. How do you put negros in there place? Same results. You make the argument seem to be universal and idependent for good when in reality is an argument that is promoting indifference.

To quote my higher-peer who lives an orthodox life and is three years younger then me "I have make sure dinner is cook when my husband gets home". Another woman who might be loyal but shows no anger against men might assume a worshiping curl position to indicate her loyalty to men but her distress of the situation. Meaning I am not against you advances but I am loyal to another.

Womanists also want to liberate men from the pressures of masculinity (which is often a source of violence against women) especially those who belong to out-groups.

This means to turn men into little cowards. In general destroy the ability of men to be men and hamper the lives between the sexes. This does not solve the problem with violence against women at all. It creates friction resulting in the malfunction of both sexes.

Womanist theory can be applied to LGBTQ people and other groups who the right to live their lives freely, self-define, and be free from judgement, structural disadvantages, and belief systems that seek to attack our ability to create meaning as individual identity as well as physical safety.

Which means as I quoted before. Turn women into men, and men into women. Destroy the household and turn everybody in hoars seeking refuges. Seriously in all my years in college I have found some girls doing pornographic movies on the side ( just by randomly browsing ) to there male counter-parts either

A. Failing and taking up a side job.
B. Continuing as a professor and never practicing there trade.
C. Teaching something that has nothing to do with there primary studies.


What do the women do. Oh I know become hoars. Marry and becomes somebodies play thing. Jump from cock to cock.

Hang out with a guy and call everything success. Strip club, human statue dancer. Snowdens Girlfriend who is an exotic dancer. All of those free nude images on the internet and in some random playboy replica magazine.

These non-heterosexuals are taking jobs as college professors because that is all they can really do is preach what they practice. AKA Liberal arts. Too dumb to preach what has been practiced then you strip down in some alley-way.

Womanism is so relevant especially since racism, homophobia, transphobia, and xenophobia are rooted in white-male (heteronormative) virtue and that has not gone away.

Womanism is not a positive. It is not feminism at all. It is demoting what feminism does and have basically created an negative agenda against the non-Europeans and specifically targeting the black man. Instead of having a man worshiping woman who would follow her husband off a cliff to nowhere. It is breaking eggs to dam the male role and specific. Same reason why women are basically like hens in a hen boxes. Waiting for somebody to pluck there eggs from them and force them into a life of distress. Again that is the aftermath of this womanist thing.

A. Remove men from the household.
B. Put women into dire situations ( like living in a one room apartment ).
C. Create more issues for men with child support.
D. Make men and women spend more money AGAIN SPEND MORE MONEY BECAUSE YOU LIVE APART.
E. Make your children into programmed or border lined non-heterosexuals.
F. Make your rebellious alpha-males into drugged up, gun crazy, sex hungry maniacs.
G. Make people dependent on drugs ( diabetes, high-blood pressure, lack of protein, or calcium ).


The Womanist agenda again primarly targets non-europeans and mostly the 14% negro population. What eggs are broken AKA WHITE 77% eggs are broken is purely mistakes along the way to accomplish the goal. Eliminate the blacks and keep them from every being a part of that 77% population.
 

Lucid

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I think that what I meant to say is that they're petty compared to the issues feminists used to fight for. Back in the day, there were major inequalities which left women all but unable to succeed in the same ways men could. That isn't the case anymore.

Back when the first and second wave feminist movements were around, women simply got the short end of the stick in society in just about every way. That's why society needed feminism.

Now that both men and women suffer more minor inequalities in roughly equal measure, it seems petty to me that feminism exists, and I find the constant talk of all of the issues females suffer from petty because nobody seems to care about men's issues. Female discrimination is still a hot topic and discrimination against males is left in the dust. And yes, I absolutely blame feminism for that. Because any of you who do want to fight discrimination of men do not speak for feminism, and I staunchly believe that feminism as a whole, over recent years, has been more destructive than it has constructive. It has spread myths and lies which have caused so many to now agree with ideas that would give the impression that we're back in the 19th century and the longer that goes on the less men's issues are given any attention to, and that's plain sexist.

I'm not going to agree with you that the issues men and women face are equal, that men's issues are rampantly being over looked or feminism is responsible for the ones you've brought up, or that feminism is no longer necessary. Even though I disagree with you, I do understand where your coming from and why you feel the way you do. I think we've both gotten our points across and we're just going to have to respectfully agree to disagree.

RegalSin said:
im not even quoting this mess
You aren't capable of telling an ovary from a grilled cheese sandwich, much less articulating your distorted points of view in a legible, intelligent manner. The only thing you contribute to these threads is straight up ignorance, bigotry and a laugh. Sit down and stop embarrassing yourself, or better yet delete your everything.
 
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That is the problem. You are blinded by the definition of the words and your are unwilling to accept the facts. The bottom-line is that feminism is a hobby for women to do when they are not worshiping there men and womanism is the byproduct of feminism that is damaging the image of the strong woman and flipping the sexes back and forth.

I know a blasted pro-feminism woman from college. But is that where she is making her money? No. She is destroying herself physically/spiritually when she attempts to be for women via feminism, Knowing fully well that she is taking part in supremacy. It is self-destructive physically and eventually all of these feminist women will turn into monsters they feared they never become. I have seen so many of these beasts transformed from the beauties they were.

Again I was like you before. I usted to think garbage but now I see it for what it is. When these feminist go home. The real ones with normal husbands, normal boyfriends. It is back to being on there knees, servicing there spouses, and doing things that otherwise would look inhuman but is normal. The problem is that some of these couples have been through this stage and would rather maintain there false image.

It is a waste of life and a waste of time and yields no production from this at all. Socialism ( real socialism ) died when the patriot-act was signe and rights was again stripped from this nation that people died for back in 1776.
 
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Caaethil

#1 Greninja Fan
501
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7
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I'm not going to agree with you that the issues men and women face are equal, that men's issues are rampantly being over looked or feminism is responsible for the ones you've brought up, or that feminism is no longer necessary. Even though I disagree with you, I do understand where your coming from and why you feel the way you do. I think we've both gotten our points across and we're just going to have to respectfully agree to disagree.

That's cool with me. Only thing I want to say is that I don't really blame feminism specifically for all of the inequalities against men (probably a few of them, but not everything), but I do blame this model of the world that feminism seems to have set up which has the world turned against men as the bad guys for letting it continue. I suppose I just wonder why if feminism is so necessary, nobody considers a men's rights(/insert more appropriate term I can't think of right now) movement/group/ideology necessary. Not that I would like that either.

But that's just me making my stance clear so I don't end on a misunderstanding anywhere. I'm happy to drop it here.


That is the problem...

This is a certified Caaethil 'look at me feminists I don't hate you' post.

I mean, I read some of it, but then I got bored and gave up. Are all of your posts just going to be this full of sweeping statements and random falsehoods? I was kind of hoping somebody would back me up a bit in this thread, but this isn't quite what I had in mind. Some random quotes I'm gonna deal with (not everything, I'm lazy).

feminism is a hobby for women to do when they are not worshiping there men
Um, okay. I don't know where that came from. Do you know every feminist? The next two paragraphs are you basically repeatedly asking "are you idiots or something?" while repeating this point with no evidence necessary.

Then everything is copy pasted two or three times.

Your living in a false identity of reality of equality and unable to be something you was born. Free and normal.

No evidence as to why inequality is a myth?

Socialism ( real socialism ) died when the patriot-act was signe and rights was again stripped from this nation that people died for back in 1776.

And now, socialism(?)
 
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We were talking about welfare, child support, and public assistance. Look this is social services bullcrap created because parents are just terrible people to begin with. However these parents are manipulated into being terrible people. Two people one rich and one broke could find each other and get along. We are the same but even the rich will reject the poor.
Um, okay. I don't know where that came from. Do you know every feminist? The next two paragraphs are you basically repeatedly asking "are you idiots or something?" while repeating this point with no evidence necessary.

I don't need to know them I have seen enough them in college. European women confused about there race. Dependent on there families, boyfriends, masters/owners/employers, pimps, etc. Victims who believe they serve god when in truth they have no money and do not want to be a slave to there parents or employers.



Take all of that money being poured into these liberal majors ( not liberal arts ). All these women could actually be accomplishing something instead of knit-picking with roller-derby wanna-be lifestyles.

How many feminist you know that actually achieved something and accomplished something through means that was not destructive to others? The reality any woman could be bored one-day ( like all the women serving under there husbands Dorsal Spongiosum ) start investing into this thing. Come back home take a punch in the eye and apply make-up ( why is it called make up again....get it??? ).

There are no real feminist anymore. Just a bunch of women showing the world how much they worship there men. Otherwise a mislead flock of losers who spend there money being wasteful instead actually seeing the actual problem. These extras among the sheep are just being hard arses and should really be saying "I am a woman, who is for the survival of men".

They are either cock worshippers getting it or not getting it, or VICTIMS who are clueless about what "it" is.

.........................

There is a no "I am a woman who stands for all women, and because of that I am a feminist". It is more like "I am a woman who worships a man or is a victim of the system, and now I am going to derail society for my personal selfishness.



No evidence as to why inequality is a myth?
That was towards the goal of the womanist comment. Men have there place and you derail the string of men who do what must be done we generate these false hopeless people living agony and pain for not being the men they are meant to be.



And now, socialism(?)
In the past I would believe that feminist were nazi's. While there are surpemacists among the ranks it is the fault of the womanist and the non-heterosexual movement. A movement where I could switch gender any time and claim to be a woman, a man, or even both. It is hard to say that...................A man who think he is a woman can not stand for feminist.

A man who thinks and knows he is a man can stand for women is only standing because he does not understand the whole entire truth. However what we have are men who are sleeping with the enemy and betrays there fellow men because they FEEL THEY ARE TOO STUPID TO ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON.

The inequality does not exists. Women know there place with men. The problem is that we have more then four generation of garbage people who live with these inequalities. Among this crap we have a couple of normal minded people who are living normal. It is like that movie "They Live". There is no inequalities but people still generate the problem. Why? TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM PROGRESSING AND BEING NORMAL. TO GIVE YOU A PROBLEM YOU NEVER HAD BEFORE.

inequalities = false problems created to keep people from being happy and normal.

It is a problem when the non-heterosexuals are included in the index. A man can not stand for a woman and a woman can not stand for a man. These feminist meetings there are many lesbians among there ranks. There are womanists who come as feminist.

It is like with the TV in general. "Married With Children". Marcy Darcy was a non-heterosexual person playing a super feminist. Rosie O' Donald show was toted in an TV Guide Article as being a voice for feminism and yet she came out as Lesbian ( reason why men like her show ). Wanda Higgins of "Wanda At Large" later came out as a lesbian. Her show showed her as a strong but normal woman. They even had some womanist brainwashing material inside. In "Glee" and "Wreck it Ralph" the one strong woman character or even a vengeful girlfriend ( same character ) is a Lesbian. When she came out about this she eventually played the roll as a Lesbian with her stereotypical trophy wife.



Point being is that non-heterosexual is being marketed as feminism. Thus for-filling the goal of womanism. Damaging the sexes. This material is trapped inside our heads and is activated later in life. AKA an Elephant never forget.

I could even go on to the many times men are made fools out of. From the Carol Brunette show to the Simpsons into the new Spyro and the new Crash Bandicoot.



It is not the silly man and the silly woman. It is more like the stultification of the sexes. Giving material to children and then having it unleashed later in life. Damning people and there functions.
 
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