Chit-Chat: Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!

[Nah]

They gave the Kalos starter's signature moves to other Pokemon? Sounds a bit weird to me, but at least they finally gave Gyarados Crunch (which they should've done in X/Y). And while Water Shuriken makes sense on Accelgor and not on Cloyster, I kinda wish Cloyster got Water Shuriken; STAB Skill Link Water Shuriken would be cool.

But it's nice to see pokes get new moves to play with (Polar I'm now gonna be scared of your Mismagius), and am curious to see if any other Pokemon get new moves. Game Freak please give Black Kyurem Ice Punch and give Zekrom something too.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Move tutors here: https://pastebin.com/8rbu6Fmp

Notable moves that Kalos Pokemon gained:
-Drain Punch Chesnaught: It's weaker than Hammer Arm sure, but having recovery and damage in one move definitely helps Chesnaught's longevity
-Low Kick/Ice Punch/Gunk Shot Greninja: Does this mean physical Greninja just became more viable? Or will standard Greninja go mixed to accommodate for Low Kick?
-Knock Off/elemental punches Diggersby: serious 4 move slot syndrome for Diggersby here. It wants to run Return/Earthquake/Quick Attack, generally; the fourth move can be dedicated to one of these, assuming you don't want to use Swords Dance Diggersby for whatever reason.
-Knock Off/elemental punches/Drain Punch Pangoro: It now finally gets to make full use of Iron Fist with the latter four options, similar to Golurk in B2/W2.
-Heal Bell Meowstic: Prankster Heal Bells for the win
-Drain Punch Slurpuff: Now its Belly Drum/Unburden set doesn't get walled badly by Steels not named Doublade or Aegislash
-Knock Off Malamar: Better than Night Slash at least; shame it didn't gain Zen Headbutt
-Low Kick Barbaracle: Neat. It won't have to rely on Cross Chop's shaky accuracy. Lighter targets still get smacked by Stone Edge and Razor Shell
-Hyper Voice Heliolisk: Why didn't they make this one of its egg moves in X/Y?
-Hyper Voice Aurorus: Again, neat. Nature Power can be Taunted, but Refrigerated Hyper Voices are going to be potent in the lower tiers.
-Hyper Voice Sylveon: Kalos-born Sylveon can now have Hyper Voice
-Drain Punch/Thunder Punch/Fire Punch Hawlucha: Drain Punch is cool for those who hate High Jump Kick, but the latter two hit specific targets: Thunder Punch nails regular Gyarados, while the latter hits Scizor. Of course, if Aegislash is somehow unbanned in OR/AS, it becomes a target for Fire Punch
-Earth Power Carbink/Diancie (grouped together because they're related): That solves their crappy movepool problems.
-Heat Wave/Knock Off Yveltal: Yveltal just became more dangerous
-Heal Bell Diancie: Mentioned Diancie again just for this
-Earth Power Volcanion: If it's ever released, it's going to love having Earth Power

Honorable mentions:
-Magnet Rise Aegislash: lol
-Iron Tail Zygarde: At least it can hit Fairies harder than Earthquake, I guess.

 

[Nah]

Dammit they didn't give Zekrom or Kyurem anything new. But at least now we have access to all the Black2/White2 moves for our Kalos born pokes. My Sylveon and Gardevoir needed that so much.

I noticed on the list that Salamence apparently gets Hyper Voice. Aerialted Hyper Voices people.

 

[PlatinumDude]

I also forgot to bring up Gunk Shot Greninja becoming a threat to Fairies. Right now, it semi-struggles with them, since Hydro Pump doesn't OHKO Mega Gardevoir and Greninja itself struggles with Azumarill outside of HP Grass or Grass Knot.

 

[Hikamaru]

Move tutors here: https://pastebin.com/8rbu6Fmp

Notable moves that Kalos Pokemon gained:
-Drain Punch Chesnaught: It's weaker than Hammer Arm sure, but having recovery and damage in one move definitely helps Chesnaught's longevity
-Low Kick/Ice Punch/Gunk Shot Greninja: Does this mean physical Greninja just became more viable? Or will standard Greninja go mixed to accommodate for Low Kick?
-Knock Off/elemental punches Diggersby: serious 4 move slot syndrome for Diggersby here. It wants to run Return/Earthquake/Quick Attack, generally; the fourth move can be dedicated to one of these, assuming you don't want to use Swords Dance Diggersby for whatever reason.
-Knock Off/elemental punches/Drain Punch Pangoro: It now finally gets to make full use of Iron Fist with the latter four options, similar to Golurk in B2/W2.
-Heal Bell Meowstic: Prankster Heal Bells for the win
-Drain Punch Slurpuff: Now its Belly Drum/Unburden set doesn't get walled badly by Steels not named Doublade or Aegislash
-Knock Off Malamar: Better than Night Slash at least; shame it didn't gain Zen Headbutt
-Low Kick Barbaracle: Neat. It won't have to rely on Cross Chop's shaky accuracy. Lighter targets still get smacked by Stone Edge and Razor Shell
-Hyper Voice Heliolisk: Why didn't they make this one of its egg moves in X/Y?
-Hyper Voice Aurorus: Again, neat. Nature Power can be Taunted, but Refrigerated Hyper Voices are going to be potent in the lower tiers.
-Hyper Voice Sylveon: Kalos-born Sylveon can now have Hyper Voice
-Drain Punch/Thunder Punch/Fire Punch Hawlucha: Drain Punch is cool for those who hate High Jump Kick, but the latter two hit specific targets: Thunder Punch nails regular Gyarados, while the latter hits Scizor. Of course, if Aegislash is somehow unbanned in OR/AS, it becomes a target for Fire Punch
-Earth Power Carbink/Diancie (grouped together because they're related): That solves their crappy movepool problems.
-Heat Wave/Knock Off Yveltal: Yveltal just became more dangerous
-Heal Bell Diancie: Mentioned Diancie again just for this
-Earth Power Volcanion: If it's ever released, it's going to love having Earth Power

Honorable mentions:
-Magnet Rise Aegislash: lol
-Iron Tail Zygarde: At least it can hit Fairies harder than Earthquake, I guess.

At least this makes getting Kalos-born Sylveon and also Gardevoir with Hyper Voice much easier now. Aurorus now gets a move it can actually make use of Refrigerate with, while Heliolisk now has a better special Normal STAB that isn't Round. It's a blessing to 6th Gen Pokemon who needed this move to make them that bit better.

Hawlucha, Pangoro and Diggersby getting the elemental punches is also good, now that they have new type coverage to work with. Drain Punch on Chesnaught just made it that more viable now, given it can heal while damaging at the same time which is a good compliment for it being slow.

Slurpuff, Carbink and Diancie gaining options to cover against Steel-types is also a blessing since they usually had trouble against them. Also with the new tutors, Play Rough + Knock Off on the same moveset for Absol is legal now which is good, really good.

Also after reading the page Delphox gets Signal Beam as well which is also worth mentioning, now that it'll have good coverage for Dark-types. Gogoat also gains Superpower, Zen Headbutt and Iron Tail for some interesting coverage options.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Oooo, those are some really neat tutor options. I'll verily enjoy having Drain Punch on Chesnaught I think. Bulk Up / Drain Punch proud Nord warrior squirrel seems like it may be effective. Or even just Drain Punch with Wood Hammer since it'll compensate for that terrible recoil. But either way, spectacular.

Assault Vest Diggersby appeals to me more once again with the elemental punches.

 

[Zeffy]

Assault Vest Diggersby appeals to me more once again with the elemental punches.

Err, I'm sorry if this sounds like an odd question, but what does AV Diggersby achieve? Its resistances aren't really complemented by a special defense increase. Unless I'm missing something here.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Oooo, those are some really neat tutor options. I'll verily enjoy having Drain Punch on Chesnaught I think. Bulk Up / Drain Punch proud Nord warrior squirrel seems like it may be effective. Or even just Drain Punch with Wood Hammer since it'll compensate for that terrible recoil. But either way, spectacular.

Assault Vest Diggersby appeals to me more once again with the elemental punches.

Err, I'm sorry if this sounds like an odd question, but what does AV Diggersby achieve? Its resistances aren't really complemented by a special defense increase. Unless I'm missing something here.

Seconding what Zeffy said here. AV Diggersby still falls to strong special Water, Grass and Ice moves. Calc below as an example. Also, its resistances tend to be physically-based, so Assault Vest is generally moot:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Diggersby: 330-390 (88.2 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO with 0 HP EVs)

Anyway, regarding Diggersby gaining the elemental punches + Knock Off, I already mentioned of the severe 4 move slot syndrome it'll suffer. It can use Knock Off to be more of a threat to Gengar, Fire Punch to nail Scizor and Ferrothorn or Ice Punch for Gliscor and Landorus. Between these options, its STABs and Wild Charge, Diggersby will have to choose what counters it.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Err, I'm sorry if this sounds like an odd question, but what does AV Diggersby achieve? Its resistances aren't really complemented by a special defense increase. Unless I'm missing something here.

Seconding what Zeffy said here. AV Diggersby still falls to strong special Water, Grass and Ice moves. Calc below as an example. Also, its resistances tend to be physically-based, so Assault Vest is generally moot:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Diggersby: 330-390 (88.2 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO with 0 HP EVs)

Anyway, regarding Diggersby gaining the elemental punches + Knock Off, I already mentioned of the severe 4 move slot syndrome it'll suffer. It can use Knock Off to be more of a threat to Gengar, Fire Punch to nail Scizor and Ferrothorn or Ice Punch for Gliscor and Landorus. Between these options, its STABs and Wild Charge, Diggersby will have to choose what counters it.

Remember I don't use regular builds :v And play doubles. If you wanna see why assault vest diggersby, I'll have a match with someone to demonstrate. Sorry for brisk response, but I'm really tired from work and have about an hour to study for a mid-term monday before I have to sleep, because I work at 6:45 AM tomorrow (and the day after). :( If either y'all are really curious I'll go through the effort of copy pasting damage calculator readouts tomorrow. Off the top of my head though, Scalds, Ice Beams, Energy Balls, and special non super effective stabs can be soaked up by a specially defensive Diggersby. If it's got Quick Attack, dual stabs in Return / Eq plus Stone Edge or Wild Charge for coverage, it's easily something formidable to any special threats in doubles.

 

[halcyonic]

so apparently you can use primal reversion with mega evolution & you can even use both primals together :o thoughts? perhaps some regular kyogre drizzle + mega swampert + primal groudon offensive sr setter core thingy? idk, mega swampert beats ho-oh and zekrom at least :p

sources: 1 & 2

 

[Nah]

so apparently you can use primal reversion with mega evolution & you can even use both primals together :o thoughts? perhaps some regular kyogre drizzle + mega swampert + primal groudon offensive sr setter core thingy? idk, mega swampert beats ho-oh and zekrom at least :p

sources: 1 & 2

Oh ****. Really?

All I know, is that when ORAS comes out, I'm probably gonna have to completely redo my Ubers teams (which is gonna be a bit annoying).

But I don't get why they'd do this though. Since Game Freak and TPC obviously aren't concerned with battles on Showdown, why bother making it so you can have a Mega and a Primal together or even both Primals and a Mega when the Primals' base forms are banned from VGC tournaments and the in-game battle facilities?

 

[Zeffy]

Dude instead of going ape**** with competitive mumbo jumbo when ORAS comes out, you should finish the actual game at least three times first!!!

 

[Polar Spectrum]

I think they did it for the kids playing still (however much a minority lol). That and probably more majorly- everyones first run through. I'm wagering they put more 2 v 2 battles in the wild / main story since Ruby/Sapphire introduced the format.

Interesting matchups though, mega camerupt with groudon if you don't fear earthquake, and yeh mega Swampert with primal Kyogre heh.

 

[Dark Azelf]

So @ tutors

Literally. :/

 

[SnowpointQuincy]

Apparently ranked battles in ORAS Will be 6th Gen born only. How do you feel about that?

I have dozens of past gen pokemon pain stakingly IV breed. They will only be allowed in friend battles (rare) and the Free battle, which will be nothing but Primal Legend teams.

How many critical pokemon do you need to remake?

 

[Polar Spectrum]

^ to this, pre 6th gen only allowed 3 IV's passed down through breeding MAX. If you were lucky, you got those 3 on something. If you were really lucky, you got the right three from the right parents on something. If you were insaaaanely lucky, and dumped weeks into single pokemon projects, you could get 4 that you wanted on something. I don't wanna do the math because laziness and mid terms, but it's astronomically low.

In sixth gen, there's without exaggeration a 100% chance 5 IV's will come down from both parents with Destiny Knot. lol It's almost too easy to breed now. Especially if your past gen pokemon are really that impressive, just breed new ones with them. There's really no reason with Tutors back in the game and larger movepools than ever.

I think the 1/ however many thousand or million chance for those legit past gen pokes with nigh perfect IV's weighed against the number of hacked and RNG'd last gen pokes makes a pretty easy choice. Personally, anyways. Hahah it's obvious how I feel about this from my short rant here.

 

[SnowpointQuincy]

I was already breeding 6 pokemon with mega evolutions. Now I have 12. Not saying my dozens of pokemon were perfect, but they were perfectly fine.

And, yes, I 've made like 8 near perfect pokemon in the past week.

Edit: 15 perfect/close pokemon bred, 6 waiting, and more to follow.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

So; Dragalge only has 75 base attack.

But; its hidden is Adaptability.

In ORAS - Dragalge can get Outrage and Gunk Shot by move tutor.

I"m conflicted by this.

 

[PlatinumDude]

So; Dragalge only has 75 base attack.

But; its hidden is Adaptability.

In ORAS - Dragalge can get Outrage and Gunk Shot by move tutor.

I"m conflicted by this.

Adaptability is unreleased, in case you haven't noticed.

Also, Gunk Shot would have suited Skrelp better, as its offenses are equal; however, it's only best used in Little Cup play.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

I know we can't touch it yet... but that really makes me consider physical Dragalge, as ridiculous as it sound. God knows why, but it gets play rough too. Go freakn' figure; dragon/poison - like the polar opposite end of the spectrum from fairy, and it learns play rough. How dafuq