Chit-Chat: Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!

[srinator]

the fact that salamence already has a p good speed tier is amazing, 100 aint bad since thats what mega gardy etc get, it does suck at times and hopefully they give it 111+ speed to screw with lati bishes. but tbh that ability is broken af >_> after calculation the stab bonus etc mega pinsir lands return at 204 bp >_> with 165 base attack >_>
people might just use body slam for le para

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Well I don't know how much better than CroCune it will actually be, considering that it is weak to two of the most prevalent types in the metagame see: Dark & Ghost. It is also unable to hold lefties so it does lose a bit of longevity. Idk, just seems like something I wouldn't waste my mega slot on.

However I do look forward to using Aerilate + Double Edge Salamence. Looks good on paper as a wallbreaker, plus it has Roost so it can just heal off the damage.

Um, while leftovers is nice since it's constant and takes effect while protecting and all that, it is worth mentioning that Slowbro does get Slack off still, so it has fairly reliable recovery given you can fit that into a slot for it. With its increased bulk and lack of crits it could probably handle using that turn to recover pretty well too.

And if I had to guess, I would wager that Mega Salamence will unfortunately not get too much time in OU best of the best tier before being banished :c

 

[FlamingRage]

Primal Groudon and Kyogre = Broken as hell to the point where I think that they should have a whole tier reserved for themselves called Uber Uber.

I've actually been in support of multiple Uber tiers for awhile now. Yeah, Garchomp was OP in gen 5, but not so much so that he should put in the same place as Arceus, Groudon, and Deoxys. Now we're in gen 6 and they're dumping Genesect and Shaymin-S in with Mega Groudon. Anyone who protests against the idea clearly hasn't played in Ubers very much.

 

[Nah]

I've actually been in support of multiple Uber tiers for awhile now. Yeah, Garchomp was OP in gen 5, but not so much so that he should put in the same place as Arceus, Groudon, and Deoxys. Now we're in gen 6 and they're dumping Genesect and Shaymin-S in with Mega Groudon. Anyone who protests against the idea clearly hasn't played in Ubers very much.

Except Ubers is already the final "ban tier". You can't really go any further than that. And even if you did, all it would do is fragment Ubers into several tiny tiers with barely enough Pokemon in them to form a 6 poke team.

 

[FlamingRage]

Except Ubers is already the final "ban tier". You can't really go any further than that. And even if you did, all it would do is fragment Ubers into several tiny tiers with barely enough Pokemon in them to form a 6 poke team.

Rather than look at what things are currently, I like to look at things for what they are ideally and then work to make them that way. While not as popular, Ubers is a legitimate tier. Just like OU. Imagine all of the current Ubers no longer exist except for Yveltal and Xerneas. Would you still want them banned from OU? Of course you would. Everybody would have to use them, or bring specific counters for them that have practically no other use. The same goes here. Come AS/OR, Uber players will have to deal with these incredibly over powered pokemon. Even if they're the only 2 pokemon that fit into this new tier, it's for the best of the lower tier.

 

[Nah]

Rather than look at what things are currently, I like to look at things for what they are ideally and then work to make them that way. While not as popular, Ubers is a legitimate tier. Just like OU. Imagine all of the current Ubers no longer exist except for Yveltal and Xerneas. Would you still want them banned from OU? Of course you would. Everybody would have to use them, or bring specific counters for them that have practically no other use. The same goes here. Come AS/OR, Uber players will have to deal with these incredibly over powered pokemon. Even if they're the only 2 pokemon that fit into this new tier, it's for the best of the lower tier.

I'm aware that Ubers is a legit tier. I play plenty of Ubers myself. They aren't gonna make a tier for just 2 Pokemon. That would be rather pointless; no one would play that tier. What they'd do instead is just ban Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre from Ubers, no new tier higher than Ubers. While I do understand that how a Pokemon fares/how much it's used in it's new tier is irrelevant to the argument of whether or not it should be banned from its current tier, Ubers is a bit different.

There's currently only 28 Pokemon classified as Ubers right now. 30 if you wanna have Groudon-P and Kyogre-P be separate from their normal forms. Let's say we cut that into two tiers: regular Ubers and Super Ubers. Then we assume that each tier has an even number of pokes in each. That's only 14 or 15 pokes each per tier, which is an awfully limited selection. And that's no fun.

Besides, we don't even know everything about the Primals yet, nor do we know what other metagame changes ORAS will be bringing. I say it's still too early to be saying that unreleased Pokemon should be banned.

 

[FlamingRage]

I'm aware that Ubers is a legit tier. I play plenty of Ubers myself. They aren't gonna make a tier for just 2 Pokemon. That would be rather pointless; no one would play that tier. What they'd do instead is just ban Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre from Ubers, no new tier higher than Ubers. While I do understand that how a Pokemon fares/how much it's used in it's new tier is irrelevant to the argument of whether or not it should be banned from its current tier, Ubers is a bit different.

There's currently only 28 Pokemon classified as Ubers right now. 30 if you wanna have Groudon-P and Kyogre-P be separate from their normal forms. Let's say we cut that into two tiers: regular Ubers and Super Ubers. Then we assume that each tier has an even number of pokes in each. That's only 14 or 15 pokes each per tier, which is an awfully limited selection. And that's no fun.

Besides, we don't even know everything about the Primals yet, nor do we know what other metagame changes ORAS will be bringing. I say it's still too early to be saying that unreleased Pokemon should be banned.

Having 2 tiers with 15 pokemon allowed is better than having one tier with 30 pokemon but only 15 viable. And do keep in mind that pokemon below the specified tier are allowed. So the super ubers tier would be exactly like the Ubers tier you're envisioning.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Mega Rayquaza confirmed, folks! Its new ability is Delta Stream, which cancels out all weather-based abilities and attacks, including Desolate Land and Primordial Sea while Mega Rayquaza is in battle. It also makes all Flying weaknesses neutral (Rock, Ice, Electric), making Mega Rayquaza neutral to Rock, 2x weak to Ice and resistant to Electric. It also gains a new signature move, Dragon Ascent, a supposedly high-BP Flying move. Rayquaza finally has a Flying STAB to abuse outside of lolFly and Air Slash.

I don't know if Mega Rayquaza will still have to use V-Create now that it has a nuke in Dragon Ascent. Anyway, possible sets:

-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Ascent
-V-Create/Overheat/Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe or 252 Atk/4 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Rayquazanite

or (assuming Dragon Ascent is a physical move, which it looks like it is)
-Swords Dance
-Dragon Ascent
-V-Create/Overheat/Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Rayquazanite

or
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Dragon Ascent
-V-Create/Extreme Speed/Earthquake
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Rayquazanite

 

[Hikamaru]

Mega Rayquaza confirmed, folks! Its new ability is Delta Stream, which cancels out all weather-based abilities, including Desolate Land and Primordial Sea while Mega Rayquaza is in battle. It also gains a new signature move, Dragon Ascent, a supposedly high-BP Flying move. Rayquaza finally has a Flying STAB to abuse outside of lolFly and Air Slash.

I don't know if Mega Rayquaza will still have to use V-Create now that it has a nuke in Dragon Ascent. Anyway, possible sets:

-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Ascent
-V-Create/Overheat/Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Rayquazanite

or (assuming Dragon Ascent is a physical move, which it looks like it is)
-Swords Dance
-Dragon Ascent
-V-Create/Overheat
-Extreme Speed
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Rayquazanite

or
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Dragon Ascent
-V-Create/Extreme Speed/Earthquake
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Rayquazanite

I also apparently read on Serebii that Delta Stream "makes moves of a type that Flying-type Pokémon are usually weak to will only deal normal damage to any Flying-type Pokémon in the battle". So that's basically saying Rock, Electric and Ice moves get nerfed as well? Wow.

 

[Nah]

Mega Rayquaza confirmed, folks! Its new ability is Delta Stream, which cancels out all weather-based abilities and attacks, including Desolate Land and Primordial Sea while Mega Rayquaza is in battle. It also makes all Flying weaknesses neutral (Rock, Ice, Electric), making Mega Rayquaza neutral to Rock, 2x weak to Ice and resistant to Electric. It also gains a new signature move, Dragon Ascent, a supposedly high-BP Flying move. Rayquaza finally has a Flying STAB to abuse outside of lolFly and Air Slash.

I don't know if Mega Rayquaza will still have to use V-Create now that it has a nuke in Dragon Ascent. Anyway, possible sets:

-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Ascent
-V-Create/Overheat/Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe or 252 Atk/4 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Rayquazanite

or (assuming Dragon Ascent is a physical move, which it looks like it is)
-Swords Dance
-Dragon Ascent
-V-Create/Overheat/Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Rayquazanite

or
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Dragon Ascent
-V-Create/Extreme Speed/Earthquake
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Rayquazanite

Mega and not Primal? Well, whatever, they're practically the same thing anyway. The Weather Trio is sure getting some nice **** in ORAS.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Video, in case anyone wants to see its majestic glowing kite-tail and underbite



Dragon Ascent looks crazy cool, kinda weird it's 'dragon' ascent - and flying type?

 

[Nah]

Dragon Ascent looks crazy cool, kinda weird it's 'dragon' ascent - and flying type?

Yeah, that is kinda weird, but it also kinda works since Rayquaza is a Dragon too. You could say that the move name incorporates both of its types.

What I'm most curious about though is how the now boosted Weather Trio is gonna affect the Ubers metagame.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Yeah, very true - I hadn't considered that since only rayquaza gets "Dragon Ascent" - it's not like there's going to be other flying types or dragon types, or anything not specifically dragon and flying using it.

And yeah, that will be interesting - I'm under the impression that Groudon / Kyogre's mega weather stays after they leave though, right? Or does it revert? Because Rayquaza's is described as leaving with him when he switches out.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

^ honestly though i don't think mega rayquaza will shake things up as much as primal kyogre / groudon, at least in their banned list playlist. In their overused playlist, I think Mega Salamence will change things up the most radically - IF he's not instantly banned to the banned playlist. If he gets to stick around for a bit though, oooo-wee. The reckoning will come on the croissant wings of his back.

 

[Hikamaru]

Yeah, very true - I hadn't considered that since only rayquaza gets "Dragon Ascent" - it's not like there's going to be other flying types or dragon types, or anything not specifically dragon and flying using it.

And yeah, that will be interesting - I'm under the impression that Groudon / Kyogre's mega weather stays after they leave though, right? Or does it revert? Because Rayquaza's is described as leaving with him when he switches out.

Primal Groudon/Kyogre's weather effect (Desolate Land/Primordial Sea) only disappears when they switch out of battle. Basically all of the trio's ability effects leave when they are switched out.

Dragon Ascent at least gives Rayquaza a nice Flying STAB now since it didn't learn many Flying moves to begin with.

 

[srinator]

i see anti, hi anti!

it all depends on that move it gets tbh, it will obv get an attacks boost. -4x ice which is nice. and if it is a 150+ bp flying move with some crazy secondary effect or its something like flying press being both dragon flying, i have no idea but seems interesting

 

[Zeffy]

-4x ice which is nice

Technically speaking, Ice-type moves should be 2x effective on Mega Rayquaza still. Known information about its ability says it removes the weakness for Flying-types after all.

 

[Hikamaru]

Technically speaking, Ice-type moves should be 2x effective on Mega Rayquaza still. Known information about its ability says it removes the weakness for Flying-types after all.

So, for those wondering how the ability changes Mega Rayquaza's weaknesses, here's an easy way to sum them up:

• 4x Ice weakness gets downgraded to 2x
• Loses Rock weakness entirely
• Dragon and Fairy weaknesses remain unchanged
• Ability will also benefit Flying-type allies in Double/Triple battles

 

[srinator]

Technically speaking, Ice-type moves should be 2x effective on Mega Rayquaza still. Known information about its ability says it removes the weakness for Flying-types after all.

Uh yah I meant -2, I was thinking no more 4x weakness and it came out wrong lol.


Also just imagine flying genie + delta stream mon in doubles! like no weakness :o

 

[Hikamaru]

Also just imagine flying genie + delta stream mon in doubles! like no weakness :o

Ah yes a team-up of Mega Rayquaza with Tornadus is definitely going to be something... the fact Tornadus, as a pure Flying-type will have absolutely no weaknesses under the effects of Delta Stream. Well done for bringing that up!