X&Y's impact on competitive battling.

[SkyRyder]

Is anyone else worried that Pokemon Amie will make competitive battling more luck-based? Do you think that Amie's buffs will only affect the single-player game?

The thing is, is that the increase in critical hit ratio and evasion can seriously turn the, what I believe is currently a 90:10 skill:luck ratio metagame into a more lopsided ratio. Sure the chance to have that "Sturdy" effect and being able to heal paralysis might seem nice and all, but it seems to be based around RNG, which is personally my least favorable part of battling, but is obviously required to balance some things out.

 

[Keiran]

Some other changes announced;

-Ghost types can no longer be trapped.
-Grass types are immune to moves like SleepPowder and Stun Spore. I assume this also includes other plant tomfoolery like Spore.
-Electric types can no longer be paralyzed.

What do you all think of this? Personally, I think the immunity to Paralyze is rather nice.

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

The "Ghost-types can no longer be trapped" doesn't really mean much since ghost-type beat Wobbuffet and Gothitelle anyway.

Electric-types immune to paralyzing? What the hell?

 

[Xander Olivieri]

I don't get why Paralysis is associated with Electric types now. If they are immune then so should Ground types since Paralysis is supposed to be related to Electrc types and Ground is immune to Electric type attacks. This is how Steel types are treated in relation to Poison attacks and status. Seems only fair that they should get the same treatment.

Status blocking now seems to be a huge focus and IMO fairly broken. Grass types are now immune to Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Spore, and possibly Poison Powder (unless they leave it to the Grass Typed powder attacks). The info does say that grass types were immune to moves like Sleep Powder and Spore is like Sleep Powder so this is an educated assumption.

Competative wise, some Pokemon lose part of their main defense as they can easily be blocked by switching into a Grass Type.

As for Ghosts switching, it says moves, and didn't say anything about the ability Shadow Tag so anything with Mean Look won't be able to use it against ghosts...which would be a pain in the butt if you have a roamer that happens to be ghost type this generation.

 

[Livewire]

I think the electric type being immune to paralysis makes perfect sense, actually. Paralysis is basically being bound by electric/synaptic charges, so basically, a Pokemon that can manipulate electrical energy should theoretically be able to control and effectively negate is effects.

Not all paralysis moves are Electric, though. Theoretically, Body Slam shouldn't be able to paralyze an electric type either. But that still means ground types can be paralyzed.

 

[Opposite Day]

Giving Grass-types a boost just means that Poison got a bit better. Again :>

MEGA NIDOKING SMASH

 

[Dark Azelf]

Can we please drop this whole unneeded argument about Ubers? Ubers, BL, BL2, and BL3 are all tiers whose main function is to act as a ban list for the tiers below them. Ubers is only a playable metagame because it has enough Pokemon to be one. There isn't going to be a tier above Ubers because Ubers is meant to be "a 'free-for-all metagame with no restrictions on which Pokemon may participate." The only rules in Ubers are clauses, and even then, they have been trying to remove them as of late.

Hallelujah thankyou someone knows how tiers actually work.

Anyway,

-Ghost types can no longer be trapped.
-Grass types are immune to moves like SleepPowder and Stun Spore. I assume this also includes other plant tomfoolery like Spore.
-Electric types can no longer be paralyzed.

I kind of like these changes, it will definitely make switching into things and status absorbing a whole lot easier which in my eyes is a plus, Rest Talking now sucks because of the sleep timer reset and sleep is essentially a free kill now. On the flip side stuff like Breloom will take a hit however, BUT they also gain a sleep immunity which is pretty awesome. Id say thats worth the trade off tbh. Same with electric types.

Can no longer be trapped ? Does that extend to Pursuit (as it is technically a trapping move) also or is it like Mean Look and abilities etc ?

 

[Keiran]

Can no longer be trapped ? Does that extend to Pursuit (as it is technically a trapping move) also or is it like Mean Look and abilities etc ?

Probably not. Bulbapedia says "effects that prevent fleeing" which includes all of Mean Look, Block, Spider Web, Shadow Tag, Magnet Pull (yay for Honedge) and Arena Trap. Serebii just says moves, so its not really certain I guess.

 

[Nolafus]

Yay! Grass types now have a major thing going for them! This will go a long way for dealing with opposing Breloom.

Rest Talking now sucks because of the sleep timer reset and sleep is essentially a free kill now.

Are the sleep mechanics being re-done? Sorry, but I'm terrible at finding this stuff out, I just can't seem to find the right site for learning new things.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Hallelujah thankyou someone knows how tiers actually work.

He just said the same thing I had been saying, that its not a ban list like you've been saying that it's all it is. Really read a post for once. Also...very mature picture you put there. You look so mature with it.

I kind of like these changes, it will definitely make switching into things and status absorbing a whole lot easier which in my eyes is a plus, Rest Talking now sucks because of the sleep timer reset and sleep is essentially a free kill now. On the flip side stuff like Breloom will take a hit however, BUT they also gain a sleep immunity which is pretty awesome. Id say thats worth the trade off tbh. Same with electric types.

Can no longer be trapped ? Does that extend to Pursuit (as it is technically a trapping move) also or is it like Mean Look and abilities etc ?

I think Breloom can gain more than lose in this case as it won't have to be as focused on sleep inducing and can focus with more offense. Toxic Orb already makes him mean, his new found immunities make him even more of a nightmare and he can free up a slot depending on if you want to continue with the current format or discover a new one.

Though with Fairy making its Debute...I guess he'll see a bit less use outside of the Spore build. It'll have to be played by ear until people actually get the gen 6 metagame flowing. Here's to hoping for a Mega Breloom for its fans.

As for trapping, its moves that keep a Pokemon from running away such as Mean Look or Block. Rumors are suggesting Partial trapping moves such as Sandtomb and Fire Spin as well as trapping abilities. Officially its only saying moves though.

Only moves that "Prevent a Pokemon from Fleeing from battle" are those that are like Block and Mean Look.


Looking up what they say officially:
(just going to use B/W/B2/W2)

Mean Look: The user pins the target with a dark, arresting look. The target becomes unable to flee.

Block: The user blocks the target's way with arms spread wide to prevent escape.

Spider Web: The user ensnares the target with thin, gooey silk so it can't flee from battle.

Fire Spin: The target becomes trapped within a fierce vortex of fire that rages for four to five turns.

Clamp: The target is clamped and squeezed by the user's very thick and sturdy shell for four to five turns.

Sand Tomb: The user traps the target inside a harshly raging sandstorm for four to five turns.

Whirlpool: Traps foes in a violent swirling whirlpool for four to five turns.

Bind: Things such as long bodies or tentacles are used to bind and squeeze the target for four to five turns

Magma Storm: The target becomes trapped within a maelstrom of fire that rages for four to five turns.

Wrap: A long body or vines are used to wrap and squeeze the target for four to five turns.

The first set of quotes say "Prevents escape", while majority of the second all say "traps". If its Gamefreak..I think its a safe bet that just the first one is the effected party while the second set is still going to work the way they are supposed to...because its gamefreak and they love to troll us.


As for the Powder thing...I think its just going to be Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Poison Powder (the three original "Powder" moves) and Spore. Rage Powder they may be immune to but all that does is force you to attack the user of the move so I can't see it bypassing Rage Powder and not Follow Me. Also don't see them making Grass types immune to an Ice or Bug attack that deals damage because of the namesake.

(the powder thing was brought up somewhere else. Just wanted to move that to here as well.)

Yay! Grass types now have a major thing going for them! This will go a long way for dealing with opposing Breloom.

Are the sleep mechanics being re-done? Sorry, but I'm terrible at finding this stuff out, I just can't seem to find the right site for learning new things.

The sleep thing he's talking about is basically, instead of leaving off where the counter was while the Pokemon was out, like say you had a sleeping Pokemon out for 2 turns and it didn't wake and switched it out on that turn, then when it came back out its counter for awakening is reset back to 1. So you have to attempt to go through 3 turns to awaken again.

 

[Nolafus]

The sleep thing he's talking about is basically, instead of leaving off where the counter was while the Pokemon was out, like say you had a sleeping Pokemon out for 2 turns and it didn't wake and switched it out on that turn, then when it came back out its counter for awakening is reset back to 1. So you have to attempt to go through 3 turns to awaken again.

Wow, that sucks. Not to mention, kind of negates my strategy for fire teams as I rely on that switch. Oh well, I'll figure something out.

There are a lot of things we're going to have to get used to with this new gen. Luckily, I have all of you to help with that.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Wow, that sucks. Not to mention, kind of negates my strategy for fire teams as I rely on that switch. Oh well, I'll figure something out.

There are a lot of things we're going to have to get used to with this new gen. Luckily, I have all of you to help with that.

Everyone is in this boat luckily. We still don't even know how many Fairy types there are, what their stats are like, if they pose enough of a threat to even effect anything other than the low end tiers. The bigger changes came from the rebalancing around the new addition, that's for sure.

What with the 3DS being crack proof so far, not being able to send our Pokemon forward for quite a while...and having to pay to use the storage that allows us to port forward, not being able to RNG, and having to start completely fresh with new competitive environment, you can expect many different tactics being formed and researched.

So many unknown variables in place right now, most of them we won't even discover until we actually play the games.

 

[Altairis]

Well a lot of us play on simulators, so I'm sure that not being able to RNG and pay to transfer won't affect the competitive side of Pokemon that much. :3

I just wonder how the "early gen-6" is going to be like. Remember when OU was mostly dream world, and everybody used Rain? I'm also wondering what's going to happen to dragons, because most of them are in the higher tiers anyway. I also hope that we get stronger fairies that are usable for other purposes other than stopping dragons, because then I think it might be a waste. :x

 

[Nolafus]

I also hope that we get stronger fairies that are usable for other purposes other than stopping dragons, because then I think it might be a waste. :x

There's always Azumaril. That thing packs quite the punch and, in my opinion, is almost certain to go up to OU with its added fairy type. I hope for powerful fairies as well. It will be interesting to see how they stack up.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Okay, so Doublade (and assumably any third form it may get) has been revealed to learn Sacred Sword, the signature move of the legendary musketeers. I think it can put that move to good use, considering that Fighting has unresisted coverage with its Ghost STAB and assuming it get decent Attack and Speed:
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword
-Substitute/Will-o-Wisp
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers

I think this will see some use in the lower tiers, since Fire Blast and Earthquake are somewhat widespread in OU.

 

[Hikamaru]

Okay, so Doublade (and assumably any third form it may get) has been revealed to learn Sacred Sword, the signature move of the legendary musketeers. I think it can put that move to good use, considering that Fighting has unresisted coverage with its Ghost STAB and assuming it get decent Attack and Speed:
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword
-Substitute/Will-o-Wisp
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers

I think this will see some use in the lower tiers, since Fire Blast and Earthquake are somewhat widespread in OU.

Yeah, and given the fact we've since seen it have one more, final evolution stage that appears to be able to switch between defensive and offensive roles means the Honedge line will be interesting indeed competitive-wise.

Also, Togepi will be losing its Normal-type for Fairy-type according to some leaked details. This will definitely see some changes on how well Togekiss will do in competitive because this thing now gains a Poison and Steel weakness added on to its existing Rock, Ice and Electric weaknesses. I could see it staying in its current tier but the added weaknesses is something to watch out for.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Yeah, and given the fact we've since seen it have one more, final evolution stage that appears to be able to switch between defensive and offensive roles means the Honedge line will be interesting indeed competitive-wise.

Also, Togepi will be losing its Normal-type for Fairy-type according to some leaked details. This will definitely see some changes on how well Togekiss will do in competitive because this thing now gains a Poison and Steel weakness added on to its existing Rock, Ice and Electric weaknesses. I could see it staying in its current tier but the added weaknesses is something to watch out for.

In the lower tiers, Doublade would've used Eviolite as the item and Adamant as the nature, given how slow it is. It's been shown to learn Autotomize, so that helps its Speed problem.

In the upper tiers however, Aegislash looks promising because of its ability to switch from a defensive wall to a hard-hitting offensive attacker thanks to its Stance Change ability, which lets it switch to Blade Forme when it uses an attack not named King's Shield (a Protect that sharply lowers the opponent's Attack if the opponent uses a contact move). But then again, 4-moveslot syndrome could be a problem:
-Swords Dance
-King's Shield
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword/Iron Head
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers

Or Aegislash can use Autotomize + 3 attacks to compensate for its low Speed:
-Autotomize
-Iron Head
-Sacred Sword
-Shadow Sneak
Nature: Impish
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

I'm assuming that Stance Change acts as Power Trick (which switches the user's base Attack and Defense) when Aegislash attacks, so I'm using Defense EVs rather than Attack EVs.

 

[Keiran]

I think Togekiss will see a lot more use actually. Losing the Ghost-immunity and neutrality to Poison and Steel is nothing compared to turning a neutrality to Fighting into x4 resist, gaining a Dragon immunity and more resistance to Dark and Bug. It also handles its new weaknesses well because it has strong Fire-type moves to hit steels and Flying-stab to hit the common Grass/Poison etc.

It will definitely be a huge threat in the upcoming OU and VGC metas imo.

I'm unsure about Aegislash at the moment, honestly. It looks like Deoxys 2.0 with how important predictions are for both players while its on the field.

 

[Hikamaru]

I think Togekiss will see a lot more use actually. Losing the Ghost-immunity and neutrality to Poison and Steel is nothing compared to turning a neutrality to Fighting into x4 resist, gaining a Dragon immunity and more resistance to Dark and Bug. It also handles its new weaknesses well because it has strong Fire-type moves to hit steels and Flying-stab to hit the common Grass/Poison etc.

It will definitely be a huge threat in the upcoming OU and VGC metas imo.

Yeah Bug, Fighting and Dragon-types will really have a hard time getting past Togekiss thanks to that new Fairy-typing. The 4x resistances to the former two basically means Togekiss can take quite a few hits from even the strongest Fighting attacks and then retaliate with super-effective Fairy and Flying attacks. It has some good defensive stats going on there.

And not even Scizor will be safe from its Flamethrower that handles the Steel weakness.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Yeah Bug, Fighting and Dragon-types will really have a hard time getting past Togekiss thanks to that new Fairy-typing. The 4x resistances to the former two basically means Togekiss can take quite a few hits from even the strongest Fighting attacks and then retaliate with super-effective Fairy and Flying attacks. It has some good defensive stats going on there.

And not even Scizor will be safe from its Flamethrower that handles the Steel weakness.

Not completely true. Togekiss is good, but the Psuedo Dragons can still hurt her. I mean they have a lot of power in physical attacks (With one possible exception, Hydreigon). The others can do some brutal damage to her still. Then there are the Bugs that outspeed it like Volcarona and Galvantula who can whittle down on its health or even take it out if done properly. Scizor can probably contend with her using a Technician boosted priority attack like Bullet Punch while holding a boosting item like Life Orb or Steel Gem/Iron Coat. Durant can probably hurt her as well.

Depending on nature and items a Dragonite is the same speed or can be faster than her. Hits hard enough and if has Multiscale can most likely survive a hit. 134 ATK vs 95 DEF. Thats almost enough to one shot is I remember right back when I was doing Hydreigon's damage from Gardevoir's Fairy Wind. It was strong enough to almost KO it and even with double damage, it still would have done a large amount of damage. If the move was stronger like Iron Tail, it has potential.

Salamence is in roughly the same boat as Dragonite. If boosted by a Moxie kill, Togekiss is screwed.

Garchomp has less attack than them, but still just as deadly and has access to some killer rock attacks like Stone Edge. Hydreigon is the worst off of them all, but still outspeeds her and even with 105 Atk he can still do some damage.


The Fairies will be good Dragon checks, but stat wise to majority of them they won't be much of a game changer really. The retyped Pokemon are going to be pushing a majority of the defense in the Meta game renovation, though most still won't be able to take on alternate attacks from the pseudos who are all mostly dragon....This is also, not taking Lati@s into consideration.

Heatran will also like his Fairies extra burnt with a side of mashed XD


Overall I'm not impressed with them. We've got contenders, but I wonder if its enough with what we have so far.