Your View of God

[G-Virus]

@HarrisonH: Yet the earth is still the right distance away to keep life alive. I don't know what to say about the planets though, it's been a while since I've looked at that stuff.
Starting with Exodus 13:15 quote, I'm going to number them in order of descension to make it easier.

1. Yes, I do believe that God "turned the other cheek" for about 50 years or so.

2. Was actually reading about this a while ago. You say that those people don't know God, but how can you hate or love someone you don't know? Those who have seen God's goodness and deliberately reject Him are pretty much saying, "Who cares? We don't need you!" and pretty much bring the judgement on themselves. I'm not sure what "visiting the iniquity" part means to be honest. One more thing, if the parent' do those things, then I'm pretty sure the children will as well. Maybe it means that He will see the influence of the parent's evil.

3. Then it's sad to know that even biblical scholars know squat. That's probably because they have 't read Israel's history. Pretty much every celebration at Passover has to do with the Exodus (which means large movement I believe). They went into the "Promised Land" which is where they are now and now live in it.



Anyways, I can tell that no matter how long we debate about this, you're not going to change your thoughts (which is what you guys normally do anyways). Changing your thought's and hearts is God's job, not mine anyways.

 

[deoxys121]

I believe there probably is some sort of God out there. I consider myself a non-denominational Christian because I can't find a branch I 100% agree with. I don't believe every word the Bible says, but I do believe in God. I respect those who don't believe in God as long as they respect me. Please do not quote this saying something like "But there's no proof!" because I will take that as disrespect. I'm not quoting and countering anyone here, I'm just stating my opinion.

 

[HarrisonH]

@HarrisonH: Yet the earth is still the right distance away to keep life alive. I don't know what to say about the planets though, it's been a while since I've looked at that stuff.

"Here we are, therefore God" is a completely silly argument.

Starting with Exodus 13:15 quote, I'm going to number them in order of descension to make it easier.

1. Yes, I do believe that God "turned the other cheek" for about 50 years or so.

So then he completely changed and exerted wrath? Again, if he changed, that goes against the belief that God is "perfect". If he exerted wrath, that goes against the claim that God is "loving". Hell, being wrathful is one of the seven deadly sins.

Speaking of those, here are the ones that God himself as described in the Bible, if he exists, is guilty of: Greed (He wants everyone in the world to worship him), sloth (he has the power to make the world perfect, but he sits back and does nothing instead), wrath (pretty much every single quote I pointed out), envy (being jealous of the worship of other gods/idols), and pride (he is the only who can bring you to salvation, he is the only one worthy of worship, etc).

2. Was actually reading about this a while ago. You say that those people don't know God, but how can you hate or love someone you don't know? Those who have seen God's goodness and deliberately reject Him are pretty much saying, "Who cares? We don't need you!" and pretty much bring the judgement on themselves. I'm not sure what "visiting the iniquity" part means to be honest. One more thing, if the parent' do those things, then I'm pretty sure the children will as well. Maybe it means that He will see the influence of the parent's evil.

How are you supposed to know something that has no physical being, or no proof of its supernatural being? Here's the answer: You can't.

As for "Who cares? We don't need you!", you seem to be making the assumption that everyone believes in god, but do not worship him. That's not the case at all. I do not believe in God, or any god for that matter, because there is absolutely no proof of the existence of one. If evidence of one came out then I'd have to believe in one. "The Bible says" does not count as evidence to anyone with a sense of rationality.

Nice assumptions on the children, by the way. What about "innocent until proven guilty"? With your logic, I could argue that all Christians are intolerant murderers, based on historical events such as the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, many executions of freethinkers over the years, the list goes on and on. After all, if the parents did it, the children probably will as well.

3. Then it's sad to know that even biblical scholars know squat. That's probably because they have 't read Israel's history. Pretty much every celebration at Passover has to do with the Exodus (which means large movement I believe). They went into the "Promised Land" which is where they are now and now live in it.

There is absolutely no historical evidence that the Exodus ever occurred. Here's why:

1. There would have been a massive population drop (and subsequent collapse of the economy) in Egypt had a mass of slaves left all at once. There wasn't.
2. As a result of moving to Canaan, there would have been a massive population increase there. Again, there wasn't.
3. 600k people is a lot of people. Just how many? If they marched 10 people across, they'd still form a line 150 miles long.
4. All archaeological evidence we have points to the origin of Israel not being from a single mass of slaves from Egypt, but from indigenous people. Again, there is absolutely no evidence of an Exodus at all.
5. The Exodus story is not correct for the time it is meant to occur, which in Judaism is accepted as 1312 BCE. The Stations on the route to Israel that have been identified all date to 800-600 BCE. In short, they did not exist when the Exodus is said to occur.

That's enough for now.

Anyways, I can tell that no matter how long we debate about this, you're not going to change your thoughts (which is what you guys normally do anyways). Changing your thought's and hearts is God's job, not mine anyways.

Unlike you, I am open to having my beliefs changed. However, also unlike you, I expect there to be some sort of evidence to cause that change. Your arguments do not provide any sort of evidence, and as such have zero chance of causing change.

 

[Livewire]

A god, in the sense of a supreme, omnipotent being, is beyond the comprehension of a mere mortal. A supreme being would not be bound by time and space, basically the fabric of our universe. Which renders most of this discussion pointless.

 

[HarrisonH]

A god, in the sense of a supreme, omnipotent being, is beyond the comprehension of a mere mortal. A supreme being would not be bound by time and space, basically the fabric of our universe. Which renders most of this discussion pointless.

But if people actually believed that, there'd be nothing to debate! :P

 

[Alex]

Another God thread huh..

Atheism is a funny thing. I think people now are finding it cool and controversial to be atheists, and with the more people doing it that's just enabling more to become atheists. And I can understand why people choose to believe in it: it's based on fact. But atheism can neither prove that there is no God. So keeping in mind that no belief actually proves anything, I prefer to keep an open mind about a higher force up there. And especially when you consider how tiny the earth is, and how insignificantly small we are, it's strange to think that there is no God. We think we're so important simply because we have consciousness but we're really not. It would surprise me if there weren't other life in the Universe, and it really would surprise me if there wasn't a higher power in the Universe. So I do choose to believe in God. Which one, I don't know. But I find it more compelling to live my life with the thought of a higher power existing, just to contemplate what it is and how it works.

However, that does bring destiny and faith into the mix, and as Neo said, I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life. So it's a tough one. But I'd rather not follow along blindly with all the atheists these days.

 

[Aorio]

Another God thread huh..

Atheism is a funny thing. I think people now are finding it cool and controversial to be atheists, and with the more people doing it that's just enabling more to become atheists. And I can understand why people choose to believe in it: it's based on fact. But atheism can neither prove that there is no God. So keeping in mind that no belief actually proves anything, I prefer to keep an open mind about a higher force up there. And especially when you consider how tiny the earth is, and how insignificantly small we are, it's strange to think that there is no God. We think we're so important simply because we have consciousness but we're really not. It would surprise me if there weren't other life in the Universe, and it really would surprise me if there wasn't a higher power in the Universe. So I do choose to believe in God. Which one, I don't know. But I find it more compelling to live my life with the thought of a higher power existing, just to contemplate what it is and how it works.

However, that does bring destiny and faith into the mix, and as Neo said, I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life. So it's a tough one. But I'd rather not follow along blindly with all the atheists these days.

Atheists don't go around blindly. There is no evidence of a God existing -- the world revolves as if there isn't one. I don't see how being atheist is cool or controversial or why someone would become atheist based off that, isn't that kind of.. stupid? I wouldn't become a Christian just because "everybody else is doing it." I don't believe in God. That's it.

 

[2Cool4Mewtwo]

I believe there is a God. I just do.

 

[Nick]

How can you be half a religion?

Easy. Some people like to identify with something. A title that they can give others, which aligns with their beliefs. Since some people don't exactly identify with one religion, and have various other beliefs that are outside of one religion, they feel they identify better with saying that they're part of something. It's what makes up who they are, like one's nationality.

I believe there is a God. I just do.

This is an enlightening post.

 

[2Cool4Mewtwo]

This is an enlightening post.

I just simply believe there is no need to "prove" that God exists in order to believe in God.

 

[Bela]

Atheism is a funny thing. I think people now are finding it cool and controversial to be atheists, and with the more people doing it that's just enabling more to become atheists. And I can understand why people choose to believe in it: it's based on fact.

Atheists don't go around blindly. There is no evidence of a God existing -- the world revolves as if there isn't one. I don't see how being atheist is cool or controversial or why someone would become atheist based off that, isn't that kind of.. stupid? I wouldn't become a Christian just because "everybody else is doing it." I don't believe in God. That's it.

Really, anybody can become something blindly--whether they be Christian or Atheist. If you follow a "thing" others are doing purely and simply because you think it's cool to do so, you're not doing so based on the merits of the "thing" in question.

But atheism can neither prove that there is no God.

This is proving a negative.

Tooth Fairy deniers can't prove that there is no Tooth Fairy. Can you prove that the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist? Would you be persuaded with that argument to think that the Tooth Fairy can exist?

So keeping in mind that no belief actually proves anything, I prefer to keep an open mind about a higher force up there.

But keeping an open mind would mean you also are open to the idea that such a higher force doesn't exist. And I think it's quite the opposite in most homes; the close-minded household that one typically thinks of in the United States is one which dictates to its children that there is a God and there is no questioning that. It doesn't really strike me as something that happens in the reverse anywhere near as often (There is no God and you won't question that, Billy!)

And especially when you consider how tiny the earth is, and how insignificantly small we are, it's strange to think that there is no God.

Actually I think it's strange to think, based on that information, that one would think that there IS a God. What about our size in comparison to the universe should imply anything about the existence of God?

We think we're so important simply because we have consciousness but we're really not.

Your argument is perplexing, given that you believe in a God and make this point. This is the sort of remark that most atheists would make to those who believe in God who feel that there's some afterlife they're going to--and one that strictly humans are going to, as most Christians don't believe animals have souls.

Rather, it is the argument of an atheist to say that it is the religious person who is self-centered and self-important to feel that they are entitled to an afterlife, or that there is a higher intelligence that created the universe (and man) in His own image.

It would surprise me if there weren't other life in the Universe, and it really would surprise me if there wasn't a higher power in the Universe.

Why would it be more surprising that there wasn't a higher power in the universe? Wouldn't it be the opposite, that the fact that we exist on this planet implies that life can exist elsewhere, but our lack of an ability to demonstrate that "He" exists makes His existence less plausible?

So I do choose to believe in God. Which one, I don't know. But I find it more compelling to live my life with the thought of a higher power existing, just to contemplate what it is and how it works.

Okay, although why exactly you arbitrarily decide to believe in God is a mystery.

Where did God come from? Was he always here, or did He arise out of nothing? As Carl Sagan said, why not save a step and say the Universe was always here, or came from nothing?

What exactly is reassuring about the existence of a higher power, anyway?

However, that does bring destiny and faith into the mix, and as Neo said, I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life. So it's a tough one.

But if there is some higher power as you believe, would you not think He had some power or control over your life? Why would He not have the power to do so?

If He can't intervene in human affairs or establish in any way that He exists, then why presume that He exists at all? And of what need that He exists is there, again?

But I'd rather not follow along blindly with all the atheists these days.

I think this explains the reason for the similarities in arguments to those of secularists. It sounds like the mentality of an anti-conformist who doesn't want to be "just one of those atheists." It sounds to me like you more have a problem with populism than you do with not believing in a God. And if that's the case, then you should know that there are way more people believing in a God in the world than there are atheists. So if you have problems with looking like a conformist, you're in with the "wrong" crowd.

 

[Gymnotide]

Alright, since this thread is going somewhere where it really shouldn't, I'm just going to say this once:

In order to prove something, you must adhere to the principles of Logical Positivism and the Falsifiability Principle. The former states that something is true if you can find solid evidence of it in observational data. The latter states that something is not true if you can find evidence against it in observational data. Since God, god, or gods cannot be verily observed, we can't strictly prove OR disprove them. That's why religion is a belief system, not a science.

You can't prove that something doesn't exist because you can't observe it. You can only infer it (in an educated manner) based on lack of evidence. Don't go around saying "you can't prove that God doesn't exist." That's immaterial and doesn't change the fact that you can't prove He does.

You are also referring to atheism as though it was a religion when it's not. At all.

 

[twocows]

I am atheist. However, I think there is some credence to the Hindu belief that all things, living and non-living, are manifestations of a supreme being or consciousness. I believe if there is some such concept, that would be its most likely form. Specifically, I believe that if there is a higher power, we and it are one and the same.

 

[Shining Raichu]

Atheism is a funny thing. I think people now are finding it cool and controversial to be atheists, and with the more people doing it that's just enabling more to become atheists.

I'd rather not follow along blindly with all the atheists these days.

Ah yes, I remember the day I became an atheist. I remember it well.

I was a devout Catholic who attended church not only every Sunday, but also every Tuesday and Thursday. I would carry my rosary beads everywhere I went talked to my parish priest about everything. He wasn't just my priest, he was like my best friend, you know? Zyggy was his name - well, it wasn't his real name but he asked us to call him "Father Zyggy" because he was Polish and had a name too long and difficult to pronounce. But I digress.

One evening I was watching television by myself - young and impressionable tyke I was, just sixteen years old - when I came across one of those debate shows. My mother had always turned these shows off in the past, telling me that they weren't something I needed to see. I was home alone, so I decided to watch. It was a little thrilling, to be honest. It was like being an eleven-year-old accidentally discovering pornography. You know you shouldn't watch it, you know you'd get in trouble if you were caught, but that's what makes it that much more appealing, isn't it?

I don't remember the exact question they were debating, but it was heavily into religion and the belief in God. On the affirmative side there was a Catholic Archbishop, a Lutheran minister and a Mormon mother of seven. On the negative team there were three atheists. On the left there was a psychologist, in the middle there was an evolutionary scientist, and on the right was the coolest guy I have ever seen.

I became enamoured with him. When it was finally his turn to talk, he spoke with such passion and such logic, I could barely control my excitement. He was just so cool. So my becoming an atheist had nothing at all to do with the fact that the entire negative team made valid and coherent arguments while all the affirmative team could muster was "no, you're wrong, bcos Jesus." No, it was all due to this guy. My entire thought process completely shut down while he spoke. The only thought that entered my head was "Wow, I wish I could be as cool as that guy."

Then it hit me. I could be as cool as that guy! All I had to do was throw in my faith in my rosary beads and cease believing in God! It was that simple! Immediately, I called the Atheism Hotline (1-800-ATHEIST or 1-800-284-3478 for those of you who might be interested) and requested a starter kit. One week later, a box came in the mail...

Excitedly, I cut the tape and opened the box. Inside, there was a Holy Bible taped to a box of matches for my rite-of-passage Bible-burning ceremony, a step-by-step guide on how do to the 'cool guy' atheist handshake, three bottles of acid to pour into Holy Water at church so that it actually does something, a cap to wear backwards, a laminated membership card and this T-shirt:

Spoiler:

I chose that T-shirt over the one that said "Thank God I'm An Atheist" because the latter seemed a little too on-the-nose. Also, this one brings out my eyes.

Now that I'm an atheist, I truly feel way cooler than I ever could have hoped to be as a believer. But you know, when I became an atheist, the funniest thing happened. I didn't feel like I was "following along blindly", I felt like I had finally stopped following along blindly. And that, my friend, was the coolest thing of all.

 

[Rogue planet]

I feel it would be arrogant to try and assume anything about a potential higher being or life force. There is nothing that has convinced me there is a single omnipotent & omniscient consciousness, so in that sense I don't believe in a God.

I also feel it would be arrogant to assume everything in the universe, vast as it is, exists just for the sake of existing. I feel it's likely that there is more to it all than meets the eye (or in this case, the comprehension of the human mind). The closest label I can slap on to my belief is pantheism.

I tend to just say I am agnostic for convenience, I think it's the most logical standpoint to make seeing as humanity is still so naive about the universe. Nobody really knows anything, they just make guesses based on what they're told and their own personality.
My mind says agnosticism (leaning on atheism); but humans aren't robots and my heart says that there's something more.

 

[Steven]

I believe that the existence of God can not be proven or proven false. I believe most people realize that as well, but it's really just a matter of faith.

I am a very scientific person, I base everything on facts not faith. Facts don't say there is no God, which is why I don't say there isn't God.

I just don't see the point in living in fear (and that's what most religions are - living in fear of punishment) of something I am not sure is even there. I'll just live a good life and treat people how I'd like to be treated - and if there is a God, I highly doubt that it cares whether or not your believe in it. That seems like such a petty thing to do, punish people for not believing. I'd think an all perfect being would be above such immature things. ಠ_ಠ

Being good is all that matters. Anything else put into the equation would make me think God just contradicts the belief of an all loving being.

Another God thread huh..

Atheism is a funny thing. I think people now are finding it cool and controversial to be atheists, and with the more people doing it that's just enabling more to become atheists. And I can understand why people choose to believe in it: it's based on fact. But atheism can neither prove that there is no God. So keeping in mind that no belief actually proves anything, I prefer to keep an open mind about a higher force up there. And especially when you consider how tiny the earth is, and how insignificantly small we are, it's strange to think that there is no God. We think we're so important simply because we have consciousness but we're really not. It would surprise me if there weren't other life in the Universe, and it really would surprise me if there wasn't a higher power in the Universe. So I do choose to believe in God. Which one, I don't know. But I find it more compelling to live my life with the thought of a higher power existing, just to contemplate what it is and how it works.

However, that does bring destiny and faith into the mix, and as Neo said, I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life. So it's a tough one. But I'd rather not follow along blindly with all the atheists these days.

Saying that Atheists can't prove there is no God is quite possibly the dumbest excuse to use. Religion can't prove there is one. No one can prove anything regarding the existence of God, so that argument has no basis.

Also-

YAY I FIND IT SO COOL TO BE THE LEAST TRUSTED MINORITY, IT'S JUST SO FUN TO HAVE PEOPLE LOOK AT ME LIKE I'M A SATAN WORSHIPER! HURRAY!

ಠ_ಠ Seriously? Have you ever just thought that maybe, just maybe, people are Atheist because they don't believe in a god? I know, crazy thought huh?

 

[TwilightBlade]

I believe there is a God. It doesn't matter if you love him or Him~

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Atheism is circular reasoning in action.
"I don't believe in faith, only things that can be proven. So I'm going to positively believe in the nonexistnce of God even though that cannot be proven, either."

 

[Abnegation]

I don't believe in "God" in any traditional sense. But my definition would be that there would have needed to be an introductory power in this universe to begin it, or maintain it, and I believe that this power would be God. I have no spiritual link to one right now. I believe in the progression of the human race by relying on humanism, as I do not believe we can rely on an intermediary being. However I don't think it suits the human mind that we are the sole race in this universe, that nothing is watching over us. However, I simply don't believe in any spiritual presence, but the presence of something more powerful than everything, is something I do believe in. And that is the closes thing to God I know.

 

[HarrisonH]

Atheism is circular reasoning in action.
"I don't believe in faith, only things that can be proven. So I'm going to positively believe in the nonexistnce of God even though that cannot be proven, either."

Cool misconstrued definition of "atheist", bro. I've come to expect no less from you.

Atheism is not "believing there is no god", atheism is "not believing there is a god". It is the lack of belief, it is not a belief.