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Old April 8th, 2011 (8:53 PM).
KinokiGaming's Avatar
KinokiGaming KinokiGaming is offline
"The only Trollzama."
    Join Date: Jan 2011
    Location: Portland, Oregon
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Jolly
    Posts: 95
    Okay, I thought alot on this so yeah. I did think about my opponents. (People have mixed tier teams) This is what I was thinking after seeing a Scizor Weakness and alot of research on what people are playing. (Researched on poketubers. o-o) Please tell me if you see any weaknesses in the team or if I should replace one of the pokemon with one of my back ups or something else I should use.

    Lead - [email protected] Focus Sash
    Naive l 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
    Fake Out / Stealth Rock / Fire Blast / Close Combat
    Reason: I am very Scizor weak and this takes care of it. I might switch it to a physical attacker so it can use Fire Punch and Close Combat and not to worry about Fire Blast missing. This is so I can set up a stealth rock safely and able to take out a focus sash if the target have one.

    Physical Attacker - [email protected] Life Orb
    Jolly l 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Waterfall / Ice Punch / Low Kick / Dragon Dance
    Reason: By having Feraligatr having Jolly nature and maxed Evs in speed, I am able to outspeed a fully eved Jolteon and Scarfed Heatren. Feraligatr is ment to take out big walls like Snorlax, Blissey, and Milktank. Sword Dance Feraligatr was okay, but I always lost because he couldn't out speed anything. Note: Don't say replace him for Gyrados because i'll just ignore you.

    Bulky Physical Attacker - [email protected] Leftovers
    Adamant l 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    X-Scissor / Iron Head / Return / Sword Dance
    Reason: With dual STAB moves couldn't make me resist to abuse his moveset. This is pretty much my late game revenger, he great bulk allows me to set up Sword Dance.

    Special Attacker - [email protected] Life Orb
    Timid l 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Leaf Storm / Focus Blast / Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power Fire
    Reason: A great pokemon that allows me to out speed things like Gengar and Starmie. Even though he has low defenses, he is able to stand his ground while hes sweeping my opponent.

    Special Attacker - [email protected] Life Orb
    Timid l 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Thunderbolt / Energy Ball
    Reason: Nuff said, Scarfed wasn't doing any good while people figured out how to use pursuit. Able to take hits, out speed most pokemon in the OU Tier, and hit for massive amount of damage.

    Special Wall - [email protected] Leftovers
    Careful l 188 HP / 104 Def / 216 SpD
    Body Slam / Fire Punch / Curse / Rest
    Reason: Hes a punching bag for those choiced pokemon. x]

    Back Ups

    Physical Wall - [email protected] Leftovers
    Relaxed l 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def
    Spikes / Rapid Spin / Payback / Gyro Ball
    Replaces: Escavalier

    Cleric - [email protected] Leftovers
    Bold l 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Aromatherapy / Softboiled / Seismic Toss / Thunder Wave
    Replaces: Snorlax

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    Old April 9th, 2011 (1:21 PM). Edited April 9th, 2011 by Vrai.
    Vrai's Avatar
    Vrai Vrai is offline
    can you feel my heart?
    • Crystal Tier
    Join Date: Jun 2008
    Age: 23
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Adamant
    Posts: 2,898
    Hi KinokiGaming,

    Interesting team. I dunno what you meant by mentioning "mixed tier teams" because the only functional tiers right now really are Uber and OU, but okay. I want to go a little bit more in-depth on threats to your team specifically rather than sets and stuff since you seem to have alright ones right now. Also, I'm ignoring your "back-ups" entirely because a team is six Pokemon, not eight optionally. Lastly I'm slightly offended by the fact that you told me not to suggest Gyarados even though you provide no reasoning why you use Feraligatr over Gyara. I mean, you could "like" it better, but Gyarados is infinitely more viable for your team in this gen, providing awesome resistances (Fighting resist) and a solid Ground immunity, as well as Intimidate making it easier to come in where Feraligatr really has difficulty getting in and forcing things out to set up. You can do what you want, I guess, but I strongly advocate Gyarados over Feraligatr... Anyway!

    threats to your team
    1. Excadrill & Sandstorm
    2. NP Thundurus
    3. , DD Salamence, DD Dragonite (and similar)
    4. Scizor
    5. SD Garchomp
    6. Specs Latios
    7. , Drizzle (particularly Tornadus)

    in-depth on threats

    Alright, let's start with Excadrill - it outspeeds and OHKOs everything on your team with some entry hazard damage (perhaps not Snorlax or Escavalier but too lazy to run calcs and Esca isn't OHKOing it anyway). It outruns all of your fastest threats, and you have really no way to prevent it from doing what it wants to do unless Infernape's sash is still intact in which case you can live a hit and OHKO it. Otherwise... you don't really have any way to stop the face of many teams. That's not very good for your team's success...

    Likewise, NP Thundurus sets up and stuffs your entire team. It outspeeds everything save Sceptile but the only thing it can manage is Dragon Pulse (because it resists everything else and HP Fire is weak) before you get smashed by HP Ice. Escavalier might live a +2 Thunderbolt but I doubt it. Likewise, Snorlax might live +2 Focus Blast with its immense special bulk if it's at 100% but it can't outright OHKO Thundurus anyway.

    DD Salamence and Dragonite rip through your team at +1. The combined coverage of Fire (Blast and Punch, respectively), Dragon Claw/Outrage, and Earthquake simply manhandle every Pokemon on your team, and absolutely nothing can come in and stop them unless it's Escavalier coming in on a locked Outrage.

    You said you covered your Scizor weak with Infernape but you absolutely do not. Infernape is your lead, and it's so frail that it has a Focus Sash... Infernape will almost certainly not be around by the time Scizor comes out. SD Scizor is definitely your biggest fear, though - it shreds your team entirely once Infernape is out (and that's easy to manage). The only thing that doesn't insta-die to Bullet Punch/Bug Bite is Escavalier, and Scizor resists its entire moveset while 2HKOing with Bug Bite. It's a very serious threat and right now you don't have any way to stop it.

    The only Dragon resist you have right now is Escavalier, and really nothing is preventing Latios from coming in on something like Infernape and spamming Draco Meteor, and then switching. Yeah, Sceptile outpaces it, but Latios will just run from that matchup once it has already spammed DM. You just have no solid way of taking these incredibly powerful hits and eliminating Latios.

    Drizzle + Tornadus makes Tornadus' Hurricanes 100% accurate. This is the same deal with NP Thundurus, pretty much - they outspeed all of your team save Sceptile who cannot do anything back. The closest thing that can stop Tornadus is Snorlax, but that's the only thing standing in the way of it. Once Snorlax is gone, nothing is preventing your team from being crushed by Hurricanes.

    ...There are a lot of other threats, too, but these are some of the bigger ones that you need to address before moving onto smaller ones.

    solutions for your team
    1. Excadrill & Sandstorm

      It's not easy to address this with a simple change. Excadrill is a really big threat, and you could start off by swapping out Feraligatr with Gyarados to get an Intimidate on Excadrill and being immune to Earthquake. Switching Infernape out for Swampert like I'll talk about in a moment will help out slightly, as Swampert isn't OHKO'd by anything a +0 Excadrill can do to it. My next suggestion would be to try running an Air Balloon Heatran. It effectively stops Landorus and Excadrill, OHKOing both with HP Ice and Fire Blast respectively.
    2. NP Thundurus

      Lead Infernape isn't doing that much for you, imho. I mean, it hits them with Fake Out, sets up Stealth Rock, and then dies basically. It's a suicide lead and honestly most teams have no use for those types of leads anymore - every Pokemon is important. This is why I suggest replacing Infernape with a more solid, sturdy lead like Swampert - not only does it wall Thundurus without Grass Knot (which is the vast majority of them), but it provides a more reliable lead who can better take hits and set up SR, etc. Not only that, but you have Swampert's 4x Grass weakness covered by Escavalier. It just seems a better fit than Infernape.

      Next, I also want to advocate the inclusion of Scarf Garchomp over Sceptile. It outspeeds and OHKOs NP Thundurus with Stone Edge, allowing you to have another security check for it.
    3. , DD Salamence, DD Dragonite (and similar)

      Again, Air Balloon Heatran would definitely be useful here. Nothing that either of these guys do can put a dent in Heatran so long as it still has its Balloon, and it OHKOs both with HP Ice (Dragonite might not be because of Multiscale, but icr). Scarf Garchomp can also beat both of these threats even at +1, making it that much more useful for your team.
    4. Scizor

      My best suggestion here would be to run Gyarados over Feraligatr. I mean, I know you said that you didn't want to replace Feraligatr with Gyara, but honestly Gyarados is possibly the best check to Scizor ever and it gives you a lot of resistances and an immunity that is really beneficial. Plus, it fills more or less the same duties as Feraligatr... just better. Right now, Feraligatr just has nothing on Gyarados for your team.

      Also, Balloon Heatran (like I suggested earlier) is a good way to cut off Scizor once its Balloon is popped (you don't want to waste the Balloon on a Scizor!).
    5. SD Garchomp

      Again, the usefulness of Air Balloon Heatran! It walls Garchomp entirely until its Balloon is popped, and OHKOs with HP Ice. ScarfChomp, also mentioned various times now, OHKOs with Outrage (though not Dragon Claw, iirc).
    6. Specs Latios

      Have you perhaps tried running a more specially defensive Escavalier with Pursuit? SD Escavalier finds very little use in this meta, because it can't find the time to set up (and it can't sweep because it's so slow!). You could instead slap a Choice Band on Escavalier and use 248 HP / 24 Atk / 232 SpD / 4 Spe with an Adamant nature. The Attack investment ensures that standard Latios is OHKO'd when it's running from Pursuit, and the rest is poured into its Special Defense. It's much more useful than SD Escavalier, at any rate.
    7. , Drizzle (particularly Tornadus)

      ScarfChomp is once again the MVP here, outspeeding and OHKOing with Stone Edge. Swampert also isn't OHKO'd by Hurricane iirc, but doesn't do spectacular damage with Ice Beam.

    optional changes for your team

    Have you ever considered running Choice Band or Life Orb Mamoswine over Snorlax? If you'll notice, about all of the threats I mentioned were weak to Ice - and none of them are bulky enough to take a powered-up Ice Shard after SR damage. It's also very useful against things like Drought teams, where Venusaur and Lilligant and such are overabused and KO'd by Ice Shard. Snorlax does very little for your team imo and CB/LO Mamoswine is much more useful.


    lead swampert

    Swampert @ Leftovers
    nature: Relaxed
    trait: Torrent
    240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SpD
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Roar / Scald

    choice scarf garchomp

    Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly
    trait: Sand Veil
    252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    ~ Outrage / Dragon Claw
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Fire Fang / Stone Edge
    ~ Stone Edge / Dragon Claw

    air balloon heatran

    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    nature: Modest
    trait: Flash Fire
    252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    ~ Fire Blast
    ~ Earth Power
    ~ Hidden Power [Ice] / Dragon Pulse
    ~ Nitro Charge / Toxic

    dd gyarados

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    trait: Intimidate
    252 Atk / 80 HP / 176 Spe
    ~ Waterfall
    ~ Bounce / Stone Edge
    ~ Dragon Dance
    ~ Taunt / Substitute

    cb/lo mamoswine

    Mamoswine @ Choice Band / Life Orb
    nature: Adamant
    trait: Snow Cloak
    252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    ~ Ice Shard
    ~ Icicle Crash
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Stone Edge

    specially defensive escavalier

    Escavalier @ Choice Band
    nature: Adamant
    trait: Swarm / Shell Armor
    248 HP / 24 Atk / 232 SpD / 4 Spe
    ~ Megahorn
    ~ Pursuit
    ~ filler (Return, Iron Head, Knock Off, Rock Smash (2HKOs Heatran) etc...)
    ~ filler

    So, to summarize:
    • DD Gyarados > Feraligatr
    • Lead Swampert > Infernape
    • Air Balloon Heatran > Gengar
    • Scarf Garchomp > Sceptile
    • Specially Defensive Escavalier > SD Escavalier
    • (optional) CB/LO Mamoswine > Snorlax

    GL with your team!
    Old April 9th, 2011 (7:50 PM).
    KinokiGaming's Avatar
    KinokiGaming KinokiGaming is offline
    "The only Trollzama."
      Join Date: Jan 2011
      Location: Portland, Oregon
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Jolly
      Posts: 95
      From what you were saying Mixed Tier is not a functional tier. It's a tier that poketubers made up because they don't care about the "Smogon Tiers" They love playing the game just for what it is and use everything they love to use. This team is just one of the examples of what I think about it. The "back ups" are just other ideas I had if there was a weakness in my team. I notice when I switched my Forretress for Escavalier. I would have nothing to get rid of Stealth Rock once it hit me. Snorlax gives me a great Wall, but Blissey gives me a great Cleric also so those two are unpredictable. Anyways, back if I offended you. I didn't offended you in anyway. I perfer Feraligatr then Gyarados because the common Gyarados has this moveset:

      Gyarados @ Leftovers
      Nature: Adamant
      Trait: Intimidate
      252 Atk / 80 HP / 176 Spe
      ~ Waterfall
      ~ Stone Edge
      ~ Dragon Dance
      ~ Taunt

      I know it has a better bulk and better attack, but with Feraligatr, I can make up with its incredible speed, (As stated before, my fully eved feraligatr outsped a fully eved jolteon) I absolutely love Gyarados, but I love even more is how Feraligatr can still compete even though hes outclassed my Gyarados. This statement goes back to how I love to use what the heck I like to and my preferences.

      As of right now, these are the rules of the tournament i'm entering.
      ~Item Cause
      ~Sleep Cause
      ~Species Cause
      ~No Ubers/5th Gen Legendaries (Until they make a new Tier List)
      ~No Weather Base Teams

      So threats Excadrill & Sandstorm, NP Thundurus, DD Salamence, Specs Latios, and Drizzle Tornadus is out of the question.

      Pokemon that have been switched:
      Special Defence Escavalier > SD Escavalier
      Air Balloon Heatran > Orbed Gengar (Once someone enlightens me what air balloon is)

      Pokemon pending:
      Scarfed Garchomp or Orbed Sceptile
      Curse Snorlax or Cleric Blissey or Banded Mamoswine
      Tank Swampert or Lead Gliscor
      DD Gyarados or DD Feraligatr

      Both Garchomp and Sceptile are great pokemon. Garchomp has a better bulk and better speed (if scarfed) but my idea with Sceptile was to have him as my late game revenger and thats Garchomps only flaw. If hes scarfed and he brings out Mamoswine or Scarfed Starmie. I'm screwed. Sceptile allows me to hit Swampert. P.S. Can't use Garchomp anyways... x[

      I like the idea of Mamoswine for a wall and Physical Attacker (plus the Priority Attack) but I wanted something I can switch in that can with stand threats like Infernape, Typhlosion (it's stupid how everyone uses Typlosion in OU just because he looks cool...) and Heatren. My flaw in B&W right now is prediction.

      The Tank Swampert is an awesome pokemon to lead with, but with Gliscor, I have the defense bulk that I lack, regain health when I need it, and run with U-Turn when I know when something is going to happen.

      Vrai, Thank you for taking time out of you life and giving me a great analyzes on my team and the weaknesses on it. Again, I didn't mean to offend you in anyway. I know that Gyarados outclasses Feraligatr, but I prefer him because of the EV set I use him that allows him to outspeed Jolteon and Scarfed Heatren. Other mistakes I might of made, please tell me. xD

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