6th Gen TMs and HMs

On the subject of HMs, I believe they should be scrapped entirely and replaced with either HM Items or Type Moves (moves that only a certain type can use; e.g. Flying-types only use Fly)

Ideas for HM Items:
Flash-Flashlight, Miner's Helmet
Rock Smash-Sledgehammer
Surf-Surfboard

How about giving Cut a high critical hit ratio imo. It makes sense and makes it less useless without making it kinda OP early in the game... Or Wynaut make it always deal a critical hit (much like Storm Throw and Frost Breath) but reduce its base power to 40 or 30? ~~

Anyway, I'd like to see more critical hit-related moves and abilities, moves like Frost Breath and Storm Throw are cool against stallers... if only they deal a higher damage...

What do you think of a move that inflicts two status alitments (and such) at once? Haha, something like bad poison + confusion, paralyze + disable/mean look effect, sleep + attract... May be a bad idea tough...

I am getting off-topic too I guess... -__-'

ISA56 2.0 said:

On the subject of HMs, I believe they should be scrapped entirely and replaced with either HM Items or Type Moves (moves that only a certain type can use; e.g. Flying-types only use Fly)

Ideas for HM Items:
Flash-Flashlight, Miner's Helmet
Rock Smash-Sledgehammer
Surf-Surfboard

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No, no, no! Although it will be more practical, it doesn't fit well with the "Pokémon theme", y'know, in Pokémon's world we're supposed to live in symbiose with Pokémon and such crap ...etc so, we should rely on them for such things...
I personally think they should just delete the move deleter... delete... deleter... you get the pun? No, seriously, I personally hope they should get rid of the move delete and keep the HMs infinitely reusable but removable at will.

LeftNut said:

Why not a 5th slot that can''t be used in battle, and is only for an HM move? That or, like others have said, remove the need for a move deleter.

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I don't really want a fifth slot. It would just... overcomplicate things I guess? I mean even logically it'd make no sense that you could only use it for a HM, and no OTHER purpose when Surf and Waterfall are legit useful.

Adding in an HM slot I guess could have it's uses. If you wanted to put an HM in the regular moveset you still could (for things like Surf and Waterfall), and then if you wanted to use others you could throw them into the slot, but they'd be unavailable in battle. That way nothing actually has 5 usable moves, but still don't clog up the movesets with awful HMs.

All I want them to do is (if they continue the HM tradition) let HMs be deletable! I hate having HM slaves.

I wish they'd replace the need for overworld HMs with some type of Key Item that only eligible Pokemon in your party can use.. Like a "Rock Smash Stone" that Geodude can use.
Just an idea, albeit a bad one :P but they could think of something better.

Jake♫ said:

Adding in an HM slot I guess could have it's uses. If you wanted to put an HM in the regular moveset you still could (for things like Surf and Waterfall), and then if you wanted to use others you could throw them into the slot, but they'd be unavailable in battle. That way nothing actually has 5 usable moves, but still don't clog up the movesets with awful HMs.

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Like how Ni No Kuni let's you learn a lot of moves, but have 4 set for battle. Or they could make the HMs into TMs and give you another way to navigate the world.

Cut would be somewhat useful at 60-65 power and 100 accuracy, at least it'd be better than Tackle...

I think there definitely needs to be a way to teach all TM moves more than once. I like the reusable TMs but if they did get rid of that, I think you should be able to buy more of ANY TM, not just ones already only in the Pokemarts or Department Store. All of them should be available in infinite quantity... For a high or low price, whatever, but it's just unfair that some are only one-copy, one-use. That's why in Gen 1 to Gen 4 I never used TMs you can't buy or otherwise infinitely obtain. Ever.

Paradise3 said:

Cut would be somewhat useful at 60-65 power and 100 accuracy, at least it'd be better than Tackle...

I think there definitely needs to be a way to teach all TM moves more than once. I like the reusable TMs but if they did get rid of that, I think you should be able to buy more of ANY TM, not just ones already only in the Pokemarts or Department Store. All of them should be available in infinite quantity... For a high or low price, whatever, but it's just unfair that some are only one-copy, one-use. That's why in Gen 1 to Gen 4 I never used TMs you can't buy or otherwise infinitely obtain. Ever.

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I really don't think they'll remove the removable TMs thing because if it's removed you can easily import from the past games and gets LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of money really easily by selling them and I'm not sure GF is that nice...

Altought an extra slot for HM slaves sounds really cool, I think it defeats the traditional rule of only carrying 6 Pokémon. Ugh... >.<

I don't think adding an extra slot for an entire Pokémon is plausible, but maybe adding an extra move that isn't usable in battle would be more plausible, but still less than likely to happen.

I'd want more TM's, but I want quality ones, not stupid triple battle gimmicks and support moves that are almost entirely pointless. What a waste of precious space.

Livewire said:

I'd want more TM's, but I want quality ones, not stupid triple battle gimmicks and support moves that are almost entirely pointless. What a waste of precious space.

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Yes. Moves like Round and Quash that got introduced this generation that NO ONE uses, whether it's in-game or competitively. It's just a waste of a TM slot when almost anything could be more useful than those.

Jake♫ said:

Yes. Moves like Round and Quash that got introduced this generation that NO ONE uses, whether it's in-game or competitively. It's just a waste of a TM slot when almost anything could be more useful than those.

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Well, at least, NPCs do use them, haha! :D

Kurapika said:

Well, at least, NPCs do use them, haha! :D

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So they're just TMs to please NPCs ;_; Though yeah, if they were removed that'd be great, especially if it freed up space for other stuff like Stealth Rock!

Honestly, if we're keeping TMs for the NPCs to use then that's completely defeating the purpose of what the TMs are.

The only thing I'm really hoping is that Game Freak keeps the TM system introduced in BW, with having them be multi-use (with the penalty of not giving you the maximum PP so you don't just spam them for free moves).

Not just that, but I hope the relevance of HMs in Gen V returns, too. I don't recall *any* of them being forced to be used to progess besides Cut outside that warehouse (or maybe Surf, but Surf's an actually useful move). As long as one of their purposes isn't to make broken bridges to slow you down, I don't care.

...or just have quality HMs, and not do a questionable replacement like Defog did with Flash in DPP.

On the topic of HMs, I don't think we'll be seeing them removed without the aid of a Move Deleter any time soon. The reason they can't be removed is so you can't get stuck somewhere in the game. For instance, if you could remove Surf while surfing, the game could possibly bug out.

Continuing the idea from the last page about making the strongest TM moves only available through a move tutor and nerfing some of the existing TMs to balance things out, I came up with this sample list of TMs based on every move we have now. I have no Normal or Flying attacks for the move tutor because there isn't really a best TM attack for either type. Also, I added two new HMs and changed the effects of two old HMs. Some of the TMs might not be great (Seismic Toss, Pluck, etc.), but I think they each serve some interesting purpose or can even teach Pokemon attacks they once knew/didn't know before.

Seem like a practical list?

Turn Rock Smash a TM. Its the worst move ever besides growl and leer. And I Would rater use those than rock smash! And that's saying a lot.

Like I said, there's no need to weaken the TM selection. 5th gen was already worse than 4th gen, with a lot of situational and useless moves. But the strong moves were still there, and there are some TMs which you even need BP to get (like Protect IIRC).

I still believe the way 5th gen did things is more balanced than before. The strong TMs are only available in the post-game and a few high-powered TMs like Fire Blast are very expensive in the shops, which means you may not have the money to spare to get them during the story. I got Thunder for my Galvantula before the 7th gym but that left me at almost zero money... Before (as in from 3rd gen onwards), you could buy a disposable Fire Blast TM for just $5,500 and wreak havoc with a 120 BP, 85% accuracy move midway through the game, or even near the beginning (as in HGSS). I played through Black and now Black 2 recently and I can tell you there are a lot of things more gamebreaking than early powerful TMs.

Trust me, you don't want to live with sucky TMs. This is coming from someone who played GSC a lot, and those games had the worst TM selection of all the main series games. It was so bad that move tutors were invented in Crystal to bring back the better moves from RBY...

Forever said:

So they're just TMs to please NPCs ;_; Though yeah, if they were removed that'd be great, especially if it freed up space for other stuff like Stealth Rock!

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Why do you like Stealth Rock so much >.>