Filler

weedle_mchairybug said:

I KNOW they're the demographics, and Pok?mon is STILL not a Kodomo series, mostly because in the original series, it was geared more towards families than kids (Takeshi Shudo's words, not mine), though I'm not sure what the appropriate term for "family show" is (NOT Kid show, there's a difference between the two, as "kid show" means its target audience is exclusively children, while "family show" means a show geared to people of all ages, allowing parents to be just as engaged as the children). I guess technically starting with AG it's geared towards children, but considering they subjected the female cast, barring maybe Iris, to crass sexual fanservice (something which Masamitsu Hidaka outright admitted to, BTW), it definitely can't be called Kodomo in practice, because you aren't supposed to have something as adult as sexual fanservice in a kid's show.

If it's geared towards children, that means it cannot try to sexualize explicit 10 year olds, in fact, it's not even supposed to sexualize many characters because the explicit target audience, children, are not even old enough to hit puberty yet. In fact, it's actually illegal, even in Japan, to push that kind of thing. Just look at that mangaka who got in hot water over owning child porn recently, for example. Want an American example of Kodomo? Try Barney and Friends, Teletubbies, Arthur, any Disney Jr. shows barring maybe The Lion Guard. I guess you can also go for the Mario, Mega Man, and Zelda cartoons as well if you wish.

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To me you're lumping toddler shows with all children shows. There's a big difference between cartoons that elementary schooler's watch. In fact, ask most school going kids what they think of Barney and 9/10 will tell you it's the worst thing.

Pokemon is not preschool anime. It's for older kids, but kids nonetheless, not to mention the vast differences between censorship in Japan vs the west.

Recall the banned episodes? Inflatable breasts, guns, etc. I think you're way of with the notion of sexualization especially.

Enpatsu Shakugan said:

To me you're lumping toddler shows with all children shows. There's a big difference between cartoons that elementary schooler's watch. In fact, ask most school going kids what they think of Barney and 9/10 will tell you it's the worst thing.

Pokemon is not preschool anime. It's for older kids, but kids nonetheless, not to mention the vast differences between censorship in Japan vs the west.

Recall the banned episodes? Inflatable breasts, guns, etc. I think you're way of with the notion of sexualization especially.

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To be fair, that's why I threw in the examples of the various Mario series, Zelda, and Mega Man, so it WOULDN'T just be composed of toddler shows (I didn't count Gargoyles or the DCAU shows because the creators of those shows made it pretty clear they weren't actually intended to be for children, at least, not primarily, being family shows at best if not geared towards teenagers.).

As far as the banned episodes, if you're referring to the ones banned outside Asia [I said Asia instead of Japan in order to specifically take into account banned episodes that were due to the Japan-Korea enmity], then barring maybe the Passimian episode recently, most of those were from the Original Series, and Takeshi Shudo made it pretty clear in his blog that the Pok?mon anime during the Original Series at least was NOT supposed to be a Kodomo series (nor, for that matter, was it meant to be a Shonen series. It was supposed to be something in-between those two, or a family show). It wasn't until AG where a combination of TCPi and the Japanese executives decided to just turn it into a kids show (yet STILL managed to have May and Dawn, and Serena for that matter, sexualized extensively for some reason). Also, I wouldn't be so sure about Japan having different views on sexuality if I were you. Let's not forget that Nobuhiro Watsuki ended up arrested for child porn charges, and while he did get a lenient punishment for the crime, he nonetheless is most likely going to have his reputation take a hit regardless. And besides, the lowest age allowable in Japan for intercourse or any sexual elements of any kind is 13, and the girls of Pok?mon are clearly below even that minimum age limit. So no, even in Japan, they're doing something that's most likely going to harm them.

Guys, you?re going off on a tangent. Rather than debating what you classify as ?Filler?, you?re arguing over what Pokemon happens to be with regards to its target audience. Might be wise to go to VM/PM or create your own debate topic on the subject.

CodeHelmet said:

Guys, you?re going off on a tangent. Rather than debating what you classify as ?Filler?, you?re arguing over what Pokemon happens to be with regards to its target audience. Might be wise to go to VM/PM or create your own debate topic on the subject.

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Fine, fair point.

In any case, regarding filler, like I said, if it doesn't involve captures, evolutions, new character debuts for at the very least major recurring characters if not main cast members, leagues, gym battles (or similar activities therein), evil teams, or any character development in any way (lesson-learning, overcoming fears, revealing fears, learning some backstory, etc., etc.), it's filler. In the case of movies, anything that neither explicitly is outside continuity (eg, Movie 20 and 21) nor does it get referred to in the Anime at least once under any capacity can qualify as filler.

Of course, since AG didn't actually have Ash increase in rank in Hoenn, not to mention the closest he has to an actual major accomplishment in the saga, Battle Frontier, got treated as a complete joke immediately afterward and since then, and then May got replaced with Dawn only for her to do the exact same goal as her, I'd argue that AG, even WITH the above, is practically filler in all but name.

All sagas not originated from the game, which include the orange islands

Entei Fan said:

All sagas not originated from the game, which include the orange islands

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Well, okay, those technically qualify as well (though that being said, Ash DID win the Orange Islands, so it's not filler per-se since its one of the few things he actually won, a major event not to mention, even if it didn't originate in the games technically speaking). Of course, that being said, that would technically require the Silver Conference to qualify as well since there was no Johto league in the games (in Gen II and its remakes, you did the Pok?mon League in Kanto, not Johto.).

My definition of filler is any episode where nothing happens that advances the plot. And in my case, I don't count episodes where Pokemon learn new moves as non-fillers. My reasoning being that Pokemon getting new moves doesn't technically progress the storyline since they could easily learn new moves off-screen, which does happen half the time anyway.