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Another very silly idea (YGO)

  • 4,222
    Posts
    20
    Years
    • Seen Aug 11, 2009
    Um......AE made a deck about discarding the hand, yes, but that got me to thinking: what about stopping the draw entirely? I mean, it is true that we've all seen the power of Yata-lock for ourselves, but what about something for today's banlist?

    (beta-tested in WC07)


    Monsters:

    2x Raiza
    1x Thestalos
    1x Mystic Swordsman LV6

    2x Toon Gemini Elf
    3x Mystic Tomato
    1x Morphing Jar
    3x Protector of the Sanctuary
    1x Marshmallon
    1x Spirit Reaper
    1x Sangan
    2x Don Zaloog
    1x Treeborn Frog
    2x Mystic Swordsman LV4

    Spells:
    1x Swords of Revealing Light
    2x Dark World Dealings
    1x Card Destruction
    2x Nightmare's Steelcage
    1x Mystical Space Typhoon
    1x Pot of Avarice

    Traps:

    2x Phoenix Wing Wind Blast
    3x Drop Off
    3x Grave Lure
    1x Mirror Force
    2x Penalty Game
    1x Trap Dustshoot
    2x Dark Bribe

    Heh, a bit thick, eh? Some of the cards probably look really out there and the deck is a bit counter-productive in some places, but hey, that's why I'm posting a R/FMD. ;)
     
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    Actually, preventing the opponent from getting any cards is what my Aswan Appartition/Archfiend's Oath/Drop Off combo aimed at. O=

    Anyways, controversy is right. If you're aiming to strip your opponent's hand (evidence of which being the plethora of discard and draw effects as well as two copies Don and Toon Gemini) then why are you relying on hand-size dependent cards like Trap Dustshoot and Penalty Game? (If your deck works right, you shouldn't be able to use them most of the time) Then there's Dark Bribe, which - while it of course combos with Protector of the Sanctuary - is counter-productive to what you want to achieve if the sanctuary isn't out. Then there's the milling effect of triple Needle Worm which, in turn, clashes with making your opponent draw the same cards multiple times (By Raiza or Phoenix Wing) or making them skip their draws with Penalty Game.

    To be honest, I'm just really confused as to what your deck is trying to accomplish. It's like part of it is packing cards onto your opponent, part is aiming for the hand, part for draw negation and part for milling. Accomplishing one of these goals consistently takes a lot of deckspace already, but with all three in one deck (draw negation and mill pulling in opposite directions too) is just too much. Then you've got your mystic swordsmen who are forced into face-down too and geminis who sit there begging for monster removal or Brain Control.

    Overall, I'd say this deck needs to focus on doing one thing and doing it well. Do you want to rid your opponent of cards by the combination of Protector and discard and draw effects as well as the usual discard effects, send those draws straight to the graveyard with some crazy Drop Off and Grave Lure cycling loop, or make your opponent draw the same cards over and over again by Phoenix Wing and Mystic Swordsman? (come to think of it, Mystical Knight of Jackal would be better for that since it can do its thing regardless of the opponent's card position) As it is...I just don't see your plan. o.O Also, where are the recruiters? You've got Zaloog, Reaper, and Sangan; where's the Tomato? =O
     
    Actually, preventing the opponent from getting any cards is what my Aswan Appartition/Archfiend's Oath/Drop Off combo aimed at. O=

    Anyways, controversy is right. If you're aiming to strip your opponent's hand (evidence of which being the plethora of discard and draw effects as well as two copies Don and Toon Gemini) then why are you relying on hand-size dependent cards like Trap Dustshoot and Penalty Game? (If your deck works right, you shouldn't be able to use them most of the time) Then there's Dark Bribe, which - while it of course combos with Protector of the Sanctuary - is counter-productive to what you want to achieve if the sanctuary isn't out. Then there's the milling effect of triple Needle Worm which, in turn, clashes with making your opponent draw the same cards multiple times (By Raiza or Phoenix Wing) or making them skip their draws with Penalty Game.

    To be honest, I'm just really confused as to what your deck is trying to accomplish. It's like part of it is packing cards onto your opponent, part is aiming for the hand, part for draw negation and part for milling. Accomplishing one of these goals consistently takes a lot of deckspace already, but with all three in one deck (draw negation and mill pulling in opposite directions too) is just too much. Then you've got your mystic swordsmen who are forced into face-down too and geminis who sit there begging for monster removal or Brain Control.

    Overall, I'd say this deck needs to focus on doing one thing and doing it well. Do you want to rid your opponent of cards by the combination of Protector and discard and draw effects as well as the usual discard effects, send those draws straight to the graveyard with some crazy Drop Off and Grave Lure cycling loop, or make your opponent draw the same cards over and over again by Phoenix Wing and Mystic Swordsman? (come to think of it, Mystical Knight of Jackal would be better for that since it can do its thing regardless of the opponent's card position) As it is...I just don't see your plan. o.O Also, where are the recruiters? You've got Zaloog, Reaper, and Sangan; where's the Tomato? =O

    The specific plan that I want to go for is stopping the opponent's draw, be it tossing the card itself (Grave Lure, Drop Off), sticking a less useful card on top (Raiza, PWWB, Mystic Swordsman LV6...especially followed by Drop Off/Grave Lure), or negating the draw entirely (Penalty Game, Protector). After that, the next priority becomes getting rid of what cards the opponent is already holding (Don Zaloog, Morphing Jar + Protector, Thestalos), and hence completing the lock. So...consider the theme to be "resource drain," as most people can't exactly win a duel with only 6 or 7 cards.. I know Needle Worm goes against this, and to be honest, they're actually kind of filler and can go very easily. In fact:

    -3 Needle Worm
    +3 Mystic Tomato

    Trap Dustshoot & Penalty Game are more for early-game, and each bit helps. They also work pretty good in tandem. As for Dark Bribe, I can tell you for a fact that I won't be using it without Protector (which isn't that hard to get out, actually), so that problem won't exist.
     
    Thing is, though, this deck is really slow on the offensive since your only non-tributes capable of hitting over recruiter size monsters and above are Mystic Swordsman and Toon Gemini, both of whom would be forced to wait a turn before attacking, giving your opponent time to set up a counter-play. Given that your average opponent will be plunking down monarchs, Cyber Dragons, Ryu Kokki, Il Blud, Enishi and Grandmaster a lot faster than you get your three paltry monarchs out (or, for that matter, manage to slice up their hand) I'd say this deck needs more in the way of monster removal effects. Kahki could be nice in combination with your discards and might also give off the impression that you're playing a Dark World deck early on, thus discouraging your opponent from sniping at your hand. Regardless, the standard one copy Fissure, one copy Smashing Ground would undoubtedly come in handy here. :3 I'm also pretty shifty-eyed about using Mystic Swordsman for bounce since it only works on face-downs and is so slow to get out. (Third turn after starting the play tops, and that's assuming that your lower level swordsman doesn't get crossed out and gets to do his level up routine) I'd say drop those and take a third Raiza instead.

    If you want more monster-based bounce you could always give Winged Sage Falcos a try. It would add a bit more low-level muscle to your line up and it and does some very mean things to Pyramid Turtle and his fellow recruiters (Not to mention Sangan) since people are afraid to play them face-down due to semi-limited Crossout. As cool as Grave Lure's illustration is, I'm also kind of dubious about its usefulness since it's essentially a much slower Drop Off. You'd probably be better off cycling your Drop Offs with Mask of Darkness. Given the format, you'll also need something to keep Zombie and Big City from exploding in your face with all the discards you're so courteously handing them. Frosty's Necroface deck removed everything from play to counter this but since that's obviously not an option here you could try The Transmigration Prophecy to cycle threat cards back into your opponent's deck (or, optionally, retrieve your own key cards). Cyber Dragon > Toon Gemini Elf here too, both as monarch fodder and as a reliable beatstick to help you keep the field under control while you set up your grand scheme. Between Reaper and two copies Zaloog you've already got all the discards you need. As much as I know you hate the card, I'll also say that Breaker would do your deck a world of good since - as it is - Zombie Master and Stratos are giving you a rough time by pounding down the better part of your monster lineup and Breaker also helps by wiping out Stratos' field support and Zombie Master's Card of Safe Return.

    I'd also say drop Steelcage. It's a card slows the temp for both concerned, whereas what you want to do is lag only your opponent down and force them to deplete their options while you keep building up your own side (as well as smash their face so far in during the no-cards period that they won't be able to recover from it). And where's PB and CotH? Both are handy ways to reinforce your Field (and get Protector back into the game) so I really don't see a reason not to play them. And...I probably shouldn't say this, but if you want to focus on Mystic Swordsman; it has some very neat synergy with The Shallow Grave, allowing you to reinforce your own field presence while essentially costing your opponent a draw.

    Yeah, that's about all I can think of. Optionally, you could run Rat as your recruiter and put more emphasis on Mystic Swordsman (putting in its searchable level 2 version for greater leveling) and Protector of the Sanctuary. That way you could also throw in all the nifty tools of the ratbox, though you'd lose searchability of Reaper and Zaloog in the trade, unless you want to go double recruiter with Rat and Warrior Lady to keep Zaloog in the game too.
     
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    Thing is, though, this deck is really slow on the offensive since your only non-tributes capable of hitting over recruiter size monsters and above are Mystic Swordsman and Toon Gemini, both of whom would be forced to wait a turn before attacking, giving your opponent time to set up a counter-play. Given that your average opponent will be plunking down monarchs, Cyber Dragons, Ryu Kokki, Il Blud, Enishi and Grandmaster a lot faster than you get your three paltry monarchs out (or, for that matter, manage to slice up their hand) I'd say this deck needs more in the way of monster removal effects. Kahki could be nice in combination with your discards and might also give off the impression that you're playing a Dark World deck early on, thus discouraging your opponent from sniping at your hand. Regardless, the standard one copy Fissure, one copy Smashing Ground would undoubtedly come in handy here. :3 I'm also pretty shifty-eyed about using Mystic Swordsman for bounce since it only works on face-downs and is so slow to get out. (Third turn after starting the play tops, and that's assuming that your lower level swordsman doesn't get crossed out and gets to do his level up routine) I'd say drop those and take a third Raiza instead.

    Yeah, after further testing I discovered how deprived this deck is of monster removal. I think I'll try Kahhki for a bit, but Fissure & Smashing Ground are definites. Mystic Swordsman LV6 can actually be summoned directly, so that's more like two turns...but point taken.

    If you want more monster-based bounce you could always give Winged Sage Falcos a try. It would add a bit more low-level muscle to your line up and it and does some very mean things to Pyramid Turtle and his fellow recruiters (Not to mention Sangan) since people are afraid to play them face-down due to semi-limited Crossout. As cool as Grave Lure's illustration is, I'm also kind of dubious about its usefulness since it's essentially a much slower Drop Off. You'd probably be better off cycling your Drop Offs with Mask of Darkness. Given the format, you'll also need something to keep Zombie and Big City from exploding in your face with all the discards you're so courteously handing them. Frosty's Necroface deck removed everything from play to counter this but since that's obviously not an option here you could try The Transmigration Prophecy to cycle threat cards back into your opponent's deck (or, optionally, retrieve your own key cards). Cyber Dragon > Toon Gemini Elf here too, both as monarch fodder and as a reliable beatstick to help you keep the field under control while you set up your grand scheme. Between Reaper and two copies Zaloog you've already got all the discards you need. As much as I know you hate the card, I'll also say that Breaker would do your deck a world of good since - as it is - Zombie Master and Stratos are giving you a rough time by pounding down the better part of your monster lineup and Breaker also helps by wiping out Stratos' field support and Zombie Master's Card of Safe Return.

    Falcos...? I'm not sure that would do much, as they could just go and set it next turn...and, on top of that, it might not be in Attack position anymore, anyway...but Grave Lure is staying. Together with Grave Lure that's already six cards out of their 35-card deck (after the initial draw), which is a fair percentage. It's also more synergy with the deck-bouncing.

    Mask of Darkness was considered, but......I left it out for who knows what reason >_>. I'm a bit shaky on Cyber Dragon, though...


    I'd also say drop Steelcage. It's a card slows the temp for both concerned, whereas what you want to do is lag only your opponent down and force them to deplete their options while you keep building up your own side (as well as smash their face so far in during the no-cards period that they won't be able to recover from it). And where's PB and CotH? Both are handy ways to reinforce your Field (and get Protector back into the game) so I really don't see a reason not to play them. And...I probably shouldn't say this, but if you want to focus on Mystic Swordsman; it has some very neat synergy with The Shallow Grave, allowing you to reinforce your own field presence while essentially costing your opponent a draw.

    Steelcage is just a remnant from when this had mill possibilities...but I would still like to keep it in, as it gives Protector protection (:)) and lets me toss it out with Morphing Jar. When it works right, two turns doesn't usually give my opponent much, anyway. PB & CotH stayed out because I was looking at a mostly-defensive deck for the most part, only going on the offensive with Dons, tributes, and Gemini.

    Heh, Shallow Grave...


    Yeah, that's about all I can think of. Optionally, you could run Rat as your recruiter and put more emphasis on Mystic Swordsman (putting in its searchable level 2 version for greater leveling) and Protector of the Sanctuary. That way you could also throw in all the nifty tools of the ratbox, though you'd lose searchability of Reaper and Zaloog in the trade, unless you want to go double recruiter with Rat and Warrior Lady to keep Zaloog in the game too.

    ...Heh, funny you bring that up, as the version I used for beta-testing in WC07 (which, may I say, doesn't have Raiza or Grave Lure but used CCV instead) had LV2 as a starting place. As for Rat...the thought did come up, actually. I really do think I'd rather use it over Tomato, and I can deal with losing Zaloog's searchability (and adding in ANOTHER recruiter would be overkill on deckspace, anyway). ...Well, actually, Sangan could search all of those out, but......hmm.

    Okay, I've decided. Here's what I'm changing:

    -3 Mystic Tomato
    -2 Toon Gemini Elf
    -2 Dark World Dealings *Sided* (ended up being more of a dead card due to Protector)
    -1 Trap Dustshoot
    -2 ...?

    +1 Fissure
    +1 Smashing Ground
    +2 Mask of Darkness
    +3 Giant Rat
    +2 Mystic Swordsman LV2
    +1 Premature Burial

    ......Um......I'm not sure what else to take out. :nervous:
     
    Monsters:

    2x Raiza
    1x Thestalos
    1x Mystic Swordsman LV6

    2x Toon Gemini Elf
    3x Mystic Tomato
    1x Morphing Jar
    3x Protector of the Sanctuary
    1x Marshmallon
    1x Spirit Reaper
    1x Sangan
    2x Don Zaloog
    1x Treeborn Frog
    2x Mystic Swordsman LV4

    Spells:
    1x Swords of Revealing Light
    2x Dark World Dealings
    1x Card Destruction
    2x Nightmare's Steelcage
    1x Mystical Space Typhoon
    1x Pot of Avarice

    Traps:

    2x Phoenix Wing Wind Blast
    3x Drop Off
    3x Grave Lure
    1x Mirror Force
    2x Penalty Game
    1x Trap Dustshoot
    2x Dark Bribe

    Can't give you a rating for WC07 but IRL this deck just looks extremely poor. Why the hell do you run one-off tributes? 1 Thestalos seems random and planless. Same for Mystic Swordsman LV6 which is just a poor card in general. If you want to kick face-downs then you just use Mystic Swordsman LV2. That's it. Why do you prefer Swordmen over Crossouts with such an inconsistent Monster line-up anyway?

    I don't like the fact that instead of blocking the draw, you discard the draw. It's going to give you problems against Zombie, Dark World and anything that likes stuff in their graveyards. The 2 Bribes don't add up to that either(I know you run Protectors but you can't rely on them).
     
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