Baton Pass Toolbox

[tehgolem]

Hey all, Im little new at the metagame,and am not totally familiar with what is ou, uu etc. Also, i dont have D/P yet, so all teh pokes im using for this team are 3rd gen :-D.

So i was thinking about baton pass. The problem about it is that if ur opponent has a pokemon that is resistant to the guy you want to baton pass too you have wasted two pokemon, your baton passer and ur pass to guy, while ur opponent only needs to use one.
example. You have a ninjask that you want to baton pass toa metagross. But alas! Your oponent is using a charzard. So by having a charziard your opponent has wasted not only ur ninjask but ur metagross because of its fire weakness.

So here is my solution. Use two baton passers and have four "Toolbox" pokes that one could switch in and out with added stats due to baton pass in order to trump the pokes ur opponent has.
now the question is, what pokes to use? My build uses two ninjassks, but i could defiantly see using two absols or a ninjask and an absol.
Also, what toolbox guys to use?
Heres my build.

Ninjask@Sitrus Berry
timid
Doubleteam
Furycutter
Batonpass
Swords Dance

Ninjask@Sitrus berry
timid
Doubleteam
Furycutter
Batonpass
Swords Dance

MetaGross-Sitrus berry
bold
Pursuit
Metal CLaw
Psychic
Arial Ace

Swampert-SoftSand
calm
Earthquake
Surf
Double team
Brick Break

Charizard-Leftovers
calm
Flamethrower
Smokscreen
Dragon Rage
Arial Ace

Magneton/Ampharos/Jolteon
(Some set with thunderbolt or thunder)

Alright, i dont have items hashed out yet, and some of the movesets are a little wonkey, but i would really like feedback on the overall idea of the team.
Thanks for ur feed back :-D

 

[Toothache]

If you're looking at Baton Pass teams, you'd do well to consider Smeargle. The ability to learn every move is always nice.

Example set:
Smeargle @ Liechi/Salac/Petaya Berry
Nature: Timid
EV: HP 4-16 / Speed 252, rest anywhere else
Trait: Own Tempo
Spore
Baton Pass
Ingrain
Substitute

Ok, the reason I say 4-16 HP EV is to be able to activate the Berry, depending on your HP IV, you'll want a HP total to be exactly divisible by 4. Spore, the only 100% immediate sleep move helps deal with anything that might KO Smeargle, and Substitute can be an additional defence if that fails while you set up. Ingrain can be Baton Passed, so it's an additional healing on top of Leftovers, Recover etc.

By the way, don't ever consider using Double Team on anyone, especially not Ninjask with it's horrid defences/weaknesses. If you want to use Ninjask, Silver Wind is the way to go, cos those 10% chance of stat boost can also be passed on top of Swords Dance. Get Substitute on him too.

As for Metagross and the rest, why use Metal Claw when Meteor Mash does more damage, does the same job and is just as accurate? Same goes for a lot of your other moves. At least you're not making the other main mistake of putting two moves of the same type like a lot of people (Flamethrower and Fire Blast on Charizard for example). But then again, balance power with accuracy, as in the two moves mentioned above. Anything above 70 power is worth considering, but anything less than 100% accurate relies on luck.

 

[Alter Ego]

Hey all, Im little new at the metagame,and am not totally familiar with what is ou, uu etc. Also, i dont have D/P yet, so all teh pokes im using for this team are 3rd gen :-D.

So i was thinking about baton pass. The problem about it is that if ur opponent has a pokemon that is resistant to the guy you want to baton pass too you have wasted two pokemon, your baton passer and ur pass to guy, while ur opponent only needs to use one.
example. You have a ninjask that you want to baton pass toa metagross. But alas! Your oponent is using a charzard. So by having a charziard your opponent has wasted not only ur ninjask but ur metagross because of its fire weakness.

So here is my solution. Use two baton passers and have four "Toolbox" pokes that one could switch in and out with added stats due to baton pass in order to trump the pokes ur opponent has.
now the question is, what pokes to use? My build uses two ninjassks, but i could defiantly see using two absols or a ninjask and an absol.
Also, what toolbox guys to use?
Heres my build.

Ninjask@ Liechi Berry/Leftovers
Adamant Nature
Doubleteam Substitute
Furycutter Silver Wind
Batonpass
Swords Dance

A Ninjask without Substitute (unless it's CBJask) is a sad Ninjask indeed. This pokémon abuses Sub so much it's not even funny. Since it's faster than anything else out there (Yes, it can accomplish this even without a +Spd nature) Substitute lets it block any incoming attack except Roar or Whirlwind (or first-strike moves before the sub is up), buying time for Speed Boost to work, after which you can pass on to a heavy sweeper. If your opponent switched or used a status move then that means you can also get a free Swords Dance to pass along (or just send the substitute, whichever is more beneficial). As for the items...why Sitrus? That measly HP recovery is just enough for one additional sub at most (and does absolutely nothing for you if you don't use sub since basically any hit on Ninjask is bound to be an OHKO)

Ninjask@Sitrus berry
timid
Doubleteam
Furycutter
Batonpass
Swords Dance

Two Ninjasks on the same team is just plain pointless and a serious liability, as tends to be the case with doubling up on pokes. You should replace this with something that contributes something new to the pass chain. Umbreon comes to mind.

MetaGross-Leftovers
bold Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
Pursuit Earthquake
Metal CLaw Meteor Mash
Psychic Thunderpunch/Ice Punch
Arial Ace Explosion

Okay...care to explain why you would want an Attack-reducing nature on a physical sweeper? Also, what's with the Sitrus? Leftovers will let you recover a lot more, is more than a one-shot, and will heal regardless of how little damage you have taken. It's simply better every day and in every way. Also, your damaging moves need a lot to be desired. First off; Pursuit. What's that for, precisely? For DP that would be a great choice since Pursuit is physical there, but in advance that's just a weak special move that will be wasting space best left for other moves. The same goes for Psychic, really. Although a STAB move might look like a good idea at first glance, there really isn't anything it will hurt that much since it gets so few super effective hits. :\ Thunderpunch or Ice Punch is more like it since each of them can hurt a major physical threat to your team: Gyarados and Salamence respectively. Also, Tootache already covered the Meteor Mash versus Metal Claw thing. Meteor Mash is just better in every way. Also, Earthquake is a keeper here, especially since it complements Meteor Mash quite nicely in terms of type coverage. Finally, Explosion is just a very nice way to show your love when good old Metagross has served out its usefulness. You can easily afford Brave nature on this since you'll get all the speed you need and more from Ninjask, anyway.

Swampert-Leftovers
calm Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
Earthquake
Surf/Hydro Pump
Double team Rest
Brick Break Ice Beam/Rock Slide

Brick Break is serving absolutely no purpose here. Fighting and Ground moves essentialy cover the same type, and since Earthquake gets STAB it means that it will have the same power on a normal effective hit as Brick Break would on a single weak, and all double fighting weaks also have a double ground weak, so Brick Break is doing nothing for you whatsoever. You should learn to appreciate the beauty of Ice Beam as it lets you handle Salamence and other pesky ground-immunes with relative ease, although if you're hell-bent on exploiting SD passes with a pokémon that just doesn't fit the job at all, then Rock Slide is the way to go. See my earlier comments on Double Team, Rest to let it do what it's good at: taking hits. Also, Hydro Pump is preferable to Surf if you want to hit hard and fast. Also, just learn to say no to the '+10% to one attack type'

Charizard-Leftovers/Liechi Berry
calm Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
Flamethrower Fire Blast/Overheat
Smokscreen Substitute/Rock Slide
Dragon Rage Earthquake
Arial Ace

Why oh why? Why Calm nature on a pokémon whose best stat is Attack? Why a set damage move if you're planning to pass Swords Dance to it? Why that sucky luck move (Smokescreen)? Your choice of moves and pokémon just doesn't match your claimed aims at all. :\ Earthquake is a no-brainer since it's the toughest physical move available, Fire Blast or Overheat are usually better than Flamethrower since when you hit with Zard you really want your opponent to go down with that hit. Finally, you can use Rock Slide for greater type coverage or susbtitute so you can whittle down Zard's HP in a controlled manner to trigger Blaze and/or a Liechi Berry, although for the latter you'll want to have a speed pass from Jask so you can outrun stuff.

Magneton/Ampharos/Jolteon
(Some set with thunderbolt or thunder)

Alright, i dont have items hashed out yet, and some of the movesets are a little wonkey, but i would really like feedback on the overall idea of the team.
Thanks for ur feed back :-D

For being a toolbox (Very TCG-style term, by the way) this team sure is...eww...defficient. I mean, the only proper B-Pass target here is Metagross. Also, wonky is - I'm sorry to say - a severe understatement about the movesets. I'd really suggest reading the guides here, as you seem to have some nasty gaps in your basic knowledge of the game. .___.

Anyway, I'm not into Baton Pass teams myself. They're lame and have a tendency to backfire since there will always be a critical hit somewhere that will just punch right through your defenses and break the chain. That are or a phazer. xP Anyway, if I wanted to have a B-Pass team for some bizarre reason then I'd not even consider Absol; it's far too frail for the job. xP I tolerate that from Smeargle since it has an unique contribution to the chain, but Absol just doesn't so don't even go there. Anyway, I'd run Smeargle (With the set Tootache posted) and also use something like;

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
Baton Pass
Mean Look
Taunt
Wish

Traps stuff that looks suitably harmless not to disrupt the chain but is also capable of keeping Roar and Whirlwind away until Smeargle gets all nice and ingrained. This one also restores HP for the team, which is never wrong. Also, another one to consider:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Surf/Ice Beam
Acid Armor/Substitute
Baton Pass
Wish/Acid Armor

Can be used to create Seismic Toss-proof substitutes because of its high HP and boost Defense which it can pass down the team (not nice for your opponent at all if you've already trapped a physical attacker with Umbreon). It also sports a decent SAtk so it can hurt things with Ice Beam or Surf and - like Umbreon - it can heal team members with Wish. As for the pass targets:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
Thunderbolt/Thunder
Drill Peck
Substitute
Baton Pass

Drill Peck works well on it because of the SD pass, and it's cool because it can pass the boosts on if something unsuitable comes around.

Overall, I still maintain that Baton Pass teams are lame and tedious. BPass is at its coolest for Wishpassing imo.

 

[tehgolem]

For being a toolbox (Very TCG-style term, by the way) this team sure is...eww...defficient. I mean, the only proper B-Pass target here is Metagross. Also, wonky is - I'm sorry to say - a severe understatement about the movesets. I'd really suggest reading the guides here, as you seem to have some nasty gaps in your basic knowledge of the game. .___.

Anyway, I'm not into Baton Pass teams myself. They're lame and have a tendency to backfire since there will always be a critical hit somewhere that will just punch right through your defenses and break the chain. That are or a phazer. xP Anyway, if I wanted to have a B-Pass team for some bizarre reason then I'd not even consider Absol; it's far too frail for the job. xP I tolerate that from Smeargle since it has an unique contribution to the chain, but Absol just doesn't so don't even go there. Anyway, I'd run Smeargle (With the set Tootache posted) and also use something like;

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
Baton Pass
Mean Look
Taunt
Wish

Traps stuff that looks suitably harmless not to disrupt the chain but is also capable of keeping Roar and Whirlwind away until Smeargle gets all nice and ingrained. This one also restores HP for the team, which is never wrong. Also, another one to consider:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Surf/Ice Beam
Acid Armor/Substitute
Baton Pass
Wish/Acid Armor

Can be used to create Seismic Toss-proof substitutes because of its high HP and boost Defense which it can pass down the team (not nice for your opponent at all if you've already trapped a physical attacker with Umbreon). It also sports a decent SAtk so it can hurt things with Ice Beam or Surf and - like Umbreon - it can heal team members with Wish. As for the pass targets:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
Thunderbolt/Thunder
Drill Peck
Substitute
Baton Pass

Drill Peck works well on it because of the SD pass, and it's cool because it can pass the boosts on if something unsuitable comes around.

Overall, I still maintain that Baton Pass teams are lame and tedious. BPass is at its coolest for Wishpassing imo.

Hey. thanks for your input. Substitute is an excellent idea, i didnt even think of lol. Nice. so yea, the umbreon also sounds good, i feel like it would work well in the team because of its use in typematching and wish looks like a very viable stratgy. As for items, i really dont have many, and i am working actually obtaining the ones i need. Thats why i have the sitrus berries. Also, my pokes are trained to level fifty for the lv. 50 parts of the battle tower etc. so meteor mash on the metagross is not an option, even though it is kick ass.
the pokes need work, i do understand that, the charizard and the swampert will have more retoolings that apply to what u were saying, no brick break on swampert, replace surf with hydropump etc.
Besides Zapdos any other electric guys you would suggest for teh sixth slot? O, and any optimal metagross bulids at level fifty?
Thanks a bunch dude.

 

[Alter Ego]

Hey. thanks for your input. Substitute is an excellent idea, i didnt even think of lol. Nice. so yea, the umbreon also sounds good, i feel like it would work well in the team because of its use in typematching and wish looks like a very viable stratgy. As for items, i really dont have many, and i am working actually obtaining the ones i need. Thats why i have the sitrus berries. Also, my pokes are trained to level fifty for the lv. 50 parts of the battle tower etc. so meteor mash on the metagross is not an option, even though it is kick ass.
the pokes need work, i do understand that, the charizard and the swampert will have more retoolings that apply to what u were saying, no brick break on swampert, replace surf with hydropump etc.
Besides Zapdos any other electric guys you would suggest for teh sixth slot? O, and any optimal metagross bulids at level fifty?
Thanks a bunch dude.

Nyu, there's absolutely no point with shooting for the level 50 section. Just level up until get the relevant moves and then go open level; the opponents there will automatically adjust to be on the same level as the highest level pokémon on your team. The only thing is that their minimum level is 55 (I think), hence why the level 50 section exists. Any levels above 55 (making sure that all pokémon you use are the same level) and you'll do just fine in open. There's really not much point with denying yourself the best sets possible, with all the ubers up in the high-rank matches you'll need them.

On the subject of electric types...well, there aren't really that many to go around. Jolteon works as part of the pass chain (Agili- and/or subpassing with Thunderbolt for random KOs) but you've already got Ninjask covering that. Electric types usually aren't that important for a team since there are plenty of other special sweepers to handle the electrical attacks. Ideally, you'll want a B-Pass team to have Baton Pass on every pokémon as it allows for endless transfer of stat boosts and other perks between the pokes, and also helps you cover the primary weakness of b-pass teams - the lack of type coverage on indivdual pokémon (Caused by having to devote at least half the moveset to non-damaging moves). However, the only sweepy types up for that task are Celebi and Zapdos, unfortunately, and Zappy needs XD to get Baton Pass. :\

Anyway, for the frontier you should just avoid Baton Pass since B-Pass teams really need a full team of six to be efficient. Just go with Metagross (Physical sweeper), Swampert (Physical wall), and a random special sweeper (Say, Gengar or Alakazam, or Porygon 2 if you want something with a bit more endurance), that's the best way to go. :3