Can some clue me in to why Garchomp is banned?

[ShadowAzelf]

I read the whole topic on Smogon about why Garchomp is bannable, however, it isn't a valid suggestion that it be deemed Uber- even if it may be broken in some ways.

If you're not an idiot (which I doubt any of you are), you can kill Garchomp easily. It just takes one turn to see what set it's running. Here's some give away signs of Garchomp's sets:

1. You use Ice Beam and a Yache Berry activates- SD Garchomp- You can counter with anything with a faster speed and an offense powerful enough to take Chomp out (EX: Weavile), something that can cripple it (EX: SashGar/Dusknoir) or, something that takes away its attack or Taunt it. (EX: Gyarados).

2. It gets sent out in a Sandstorm and uses Substitute.- That's an obvious sign of a SSSD set, not hard to counter, in fact, all you need is Taunt and something to break its subs.

3. Garchomp uses Draco Meteor.- ChainChomp <.<. Anything that avoids/resists/take Earthquake and can hit back with a SE attack beats it.

To be honest, Garchomp is only surprising for its first turn out. After that, it just rolls downhill unless you go crazy with predictions and you let it setup on you. C'mon, a friggen Lopunny can kill it, there's no reason to say it's broken in standard play.

Just my 2 cents, though.

 

[FourFourTwo]

Wow. Go take a look here:

https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/131731

Its pretty much full of calculations, on common switchins to chomp. Truth is, there is not a good counter to him, unless its a revenge kill. Even then, its hard to take it down. Most things get 2HKO'd, even hippowdon. Try switching in to a STAB'd Outrage.

 

[AluminumKnight]

1. You use Ice Beam and a Yache Berry activates- SD Garchomp- You can counter with anything with a faster speed and an offense powerful enough to take Chomp out (EX: Weavile), something that can cripple it (EX: SashGar/Dusknoir) or, something that takes away its attack or Taunt it. (EX: Gyarados).

Yache Berry activates, Garchomp uses SD. Now you have a decision. Leave your current pokemon in and sacrifice it, or switch to another pokemon and sacrifice it. Either way, something is going to get KO'd, as the only things capable of taking hits from Garchomp after a SD are much, much slower and get 2HKO'd.

2. It gets sent out in a Sandstorm and uses Substitute.- That's an obvious sign of a SSSD set, not hard to counter, in fact, all you need is Taunt and something to break its subs.

Garchomp uses Substitute. Even if you break it on the same turn, he'll keep using it until you miss due to Sand Veil. Or, you switch to your Taunter. You'd better hope your Taunt is faster than his SD, and even if it is, he can still KO you because he now has a sub up, along with Sand Veil the whole time, causing you to miss. Plus, a good battler will know you're going to Taunt if you come in with a common taunter like Gyara.

3. Garchomp uses Draco Meteor.- ChainChomp <.<. Anything that avoids/resists/take Earthquake and can hit back with a SE attack beats it.

If your pokemon survives Draco Meteor, which is unlikely, you're definitely slower than him. He can now KO you unless you switch. Who are you going to switch to? List the pokemon that can do the following: A flying/levitator that is faster than Garchomp and can OHKO him, OR a flying/levitator that can take one of Chainchomp's other moves and 2HKO him, OR a pokemon that can take an earthquake, be faster than him, and OHKO him, OR a pokemon that can take 2 earthquakes and 2HKO him. Plus, having used his Draco Meteor, as soon as he sees a counter, he's going to be wanting to switch back out and do it again.

 

[Amp]

This just sound slike another Blissey, only offensive. Eventually everyone will carry counters for it just like Blissey.

 

[El Gofre]

But blissey is counterable. Base 10 defencemeans it dies extremely easily to any physical attack, even if it's just off another wall as a support move. For example, standard blissey can get 3HKOd by a skarmory's brave bird with just 40 Attack IVs. Imagine what a sweeper can do to it.
But yeah garchomp was rightly banned. There is no way of effectivly countering.

 

[Light Azelf]

This just sound slike another Blissey, only offensive. Eventually everyone will carry counters for it just like Blissey.

Well, there are a lot of counters to Blissey if you sit down and think about it, tbh.

Anyways, FourFourTwo pretty much said it.

 

[rocket]

is this your main site now Azelf? Anyway, PC is pretty set in stone about chomp which I respect, but there is an ongoing debate about it right now on your old site.

 

[Anti]

I read the whole topic on Smogon about why Garchomp is bannable, however, it isn't a valid suggestion that it be deemed Uber- even if it may be broken in some ways.

Whether you can prove that lofty statement remains to be seen.

If you're not an idiot (which I doubt any of you are), you can kill Garchomp easily. It just takes one turn to see what set it's running. Here's some give away signs of Garchomp's sets:

Kill Garchomp easily? It's very bulky and has sand veil for starters, and switching into it is nearly impossible.

1. You use Ice Beam and a Yache Berry activates- SD Garchomp- You can counter with anything with a faster speed and an offense powerful enough to take Chomp out (EX: Weavile), something that can cripple it (EX: SashGar/Dusknoir) or, something that takes away its attack or Taunt it. (EX: Gyarados).

There are several problems with your theory. First of all, Weavile and Gengar being safe switches into Garchomp...that will never happen. You can't guarantee SR or Sandstorm won't be up to disable sashes either, making it VERY unreliable. Gar and Weavile can't survive any switch-in, and if they do there's the possibility of a Yache Berry.

Dusknoir is absolutely hammered by Garchomp as well. Even if it WoWs it, Garchomp can still KO and Blissey can Heal Bell the Burn away. Gyarados also can't take boosted hits from Garchomp, and Taunt is only giving Garchomp another turn to hammer gyarados with damage.

Garchomp can beat ANY wall thrown at it, I fail to see how it's "easy to beat."

2. It gets sent out in a Sandstorm and uses Substitute.- That's an obvious sign of a SSSD set, not hard to counter, in fact, all you need is Taunt and something to break its subs.

The only things that can really stop that set are Skarmory and Bronzong, and both have a lot of trouble taking it down. Regardless, carrying something just to break Garchomp's subs and a taunter just to stop Garchomp from SDing up is the exact reason why we're banning it - overcentraliziation. also you must remember, hax can drill you and Garchomp behind a sub and a SD up can wipe out most pokemon, and with one miss that situation is reality.

3. Garchomp uses Draco Meteor.- ChainChomp <.<. Anything that avoids/resists/take Earthquake and can hit back with a SE attack beats it.

Chain Chomp is pretty easily countered. That's the last reason why it is being considered for the uber tier. Even then, many somewhat reliable counters for the physical sets get pretty badly hammered by Chain Chomp, which certainly does you no good.

To be honest, Garchomp is only surprising for its first turn out. After that, it just rolls downhill unless you go crazy with predictions and you let it setup on you. C'mon, a friggen Lopunny can kill it, there's no reason to say it's broken in standard play.

I'm sorry but that is false, totally false. Lopunny being able to kill it is irrelevant. Heck, a Feebas COULD beat it, but should we really care about that?

Surprise also has little to do with it. I suggest you name one safe switch into Garchomp who isn't a pokemon designed just to beat it. You really can't. CBchomp absolutely destroys the metagame, as does SDchomp.

I really don't think you can possibly support that statement that Garchomp just "rolls downhill" after you know its set. I'm sorry, but when I faced a CBchomp, Registeel took a CB Outrage, and I knew its set. That didn't stop it from 6-0ing my otherwise undefeated stall team.

Just my 2 cents, though.

Little of what you said is supported by solid fact, and that's not your fault - there is no solid fact to back up your claims. The only even close to solid point I could see was Chain Chomp, which is far outclassed by other Garchomp sets.

I'm sorry, but I STRONGLY disagree with everything you said. If you want to explain your opinions a little more, feel free to, but honestly that post had no real evidence to support its movement back to standard play, or that's how I see it. Don't take it personally, I just don't get your argument at all :0

 

[BrandoSheriff]

wow. if he puts it like that, then i should replace mine with a different pokémon.

 

[Hadim Sinan Pasha]

Just replace it with a Mence. Most used Mence to replace with would probably be Specsmence.

 

[El Gofre]

Thats silly. a special sweeper is hardly the best alternative for a physical one.

 

[Sora_8920]

Just replace it with a Mence. Most used Mence to replace with would probably be Specsmence.

Does everybody use that nowadays?

I <3 CBMence, and it is better then Specsmence anyways.

Just because it's the most utilized moveset doesn't necessarily mean it should be used everytime.

This, my friend, is over-centralization, not every team requires Specsmence.

This kinda irritates me, but meh.

 

[rlacksrms]

Does everybody use that nowadays?

I <3 CBMence, and it is better then Specsmence anyways.

Just because it's the most utilized moveset doesn't necessarily mean it should be used everytime.

This, my friend, is over-centralization, not every team requires Specsmence.

This kinda irritates me, but meh.

This is off-topic, but isn't over-centralization when a pokemon must be used to counter a different pokemon?

 

[Sora_8920]

This is off-topic, but isn't over-centralization when a pokemon must be used to counter a different pokemon?

Well, if it's off-topic why did you post it? That doesn't make sense.

 

[airconditioning]

Well, if it's off-topic why did you post it? That doesn't make sense.

... Because you were wrong. He never said that every team required SpecsMence- just that he's the most popular build. Really, Itachi, you're bad at reading posts. And defending yourself, for that matter.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

The reason that garchomp is banned is that the only viable counter I can think of (sash Smeargle with Counter & Mirror Coat ) Can't be used against a sub, can't be switched in because of Sandstorm and Garchomp would just destroy it, and you have to sacrifice a Pokemon to find out what set it seems to be running (special or physical).

Same goes for pretty much all countersashers.

And garchomp is not "banned". I've played against a few of my stronger friends at school in ubers and it can hold up quite well, if you have the right strategy.

 

[airconditioning]

I don't think that anyone thought of countersash Smeargle when thinking of Garchomp. It's mostly been CB Ice Shard Weavile.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, well, I like to think Smeargle when thinking of awesome counters. I used to think it underpowered and worthless, until I used one the first time. Now all of my OU and even some of my uber teams run a Smeargle.
It can easily take out some Pokemon with the right set.

 

[Anti]

I don't really think Smeaglle can counter Chomp with terrible defense and no way to kill it...not to mention it's slower and Focus Sash is disabled by sandstorm, which is usually up, not to mention all forms of spikes and SR and other status.

The way I see it, Garchomp should be banned until somebody comes up with a GOOD counterargument, and I have yet to see that. That is why I support its move to the uber tier.

 

[sims796]

The only feasable (feeble) argument that can be used against it is the fact that we've all taken out our fair share of Chomp, hence why a discussion had to be made in the first place. It's not something to be done lightly.

Then again, I beat two hakced Gritinia with my unEV trained Noctowl, so beating Chomp isn't the best argument at all.