Charziard's Disobedient Behavior

[sherreamethyst]

So, I was just thinking about the 1st season of Pokemon again, and I don't really get why Charizard was so disobedient! I mean, I sorta understood once it evolved into a Charizard, but then Ash got all 8 badges, and continued onto the Orange Islands, and still he didn't listen to Ash! Maybe the show isn't like the game where once you get all 8 badges, even a level 100 will listen to you. It was like Charizard didn't trust Ash any more. Plus to add on, Charizard should have remembered Ash did save its life when he was just a Charmander abandoned in the rain....

So what do you guys think? What was the reason for Charizard to disobey Ash all the time? Why do you think Charizard didn't appreciate Ash for everything he had done for him?

 

[psyanic]

I thought it went directly to Charizard as a species, meaning that Charizard was too prideful and felt better than Ash after it evolved. He was a hothead, and he really was a lot like Ash, as in very boastful and full of pride and confidence. But still stubborn. Those two personalities collided and... yeah. This actually all started out when Ash made it purposely lose to the Paras in EP44, which it didn't obey as a Charmeleon. That probably really stung its pride. They also mentioned that it was Ash's skill level and maturity that needed to increase a bit, which makes sense.

I don't think Charizard didn't appreciate Ash, I'm sure he did deep down, evident by when he starts obeying him. It's just that Charizard was a bit caught up in "the moment" and just didn't care. And it just felt too good for Ash I suppose.

I read something about how Charizard wanted to be more like Damian, his previous trainer when Ash found him. He wanted to assert dominance and felt that he could just do things his own way.

 

[Kenshin5]

From what I remember Brock did more to save Charmander then anyone, so if anything Charmander should be looking to Brock to think, Ash even considered giving Charmander over to Brock since he did all the work with it but Brock insisted "No you have it".

As stated the attitude started with Charmeleon and continued on as Charizard. Maybe Charmeleon thought was why should I have to lose to a Paras since it isn't a pokemon of my stature, how dare you ask me to concede defeat!

As Charizard it seemed to only fight strong opponents or Fire types. I think part of it's disobedience is cause it thought it could do a better job in battle on it's own then taking orders from Ash. With no found strength why do I need a trainer to tell me what to do. Then here comes Poliwrath knocking it down a peg or two, and Ash comes in showing how much care and dedication Ash really does have for his pokemon. So he won Charizard over again. And at this point Ash seemed to be becoming a better trainer that he was around the time of the evolutions.

Honestly though I don't ever think there will be a definitive answer unless stated by the rights, so it's one of those open to interpretation kind of things. And I don't feel Charizard needed to act more like Damian to prove his point, whatever reason he was disobeying he was doing it on his on volition.

 

[sherreamethyst]

Hmm, now that I think of it, I guess it all did start in EP44! I remember that paras was totally weak and scared and Ash sends of Charmeleon to go easy on it. Maybe it did feel that it was better than Ash could ever do for it. About the Damian trainer, I never thought of that. I would think it would want to be the total opposite. LOL, also, Charizard does act alot like Ash- very boastful and full of pride and confidence, but still stubborn. XD

 

[pineco-a-go-go]

The simple answer is that the anime and the games are not equivalent. There are many differences that have been documented before on these forums. For example, the anime doesn't reference levels because it treats pokemon more realistically, finely tuning their abilities like athletes rather than progressing down a straight rpg power path. Similarly, in the game you can't hit the sprinklers in the Pewter City gym to defeat Brock's Onyx.

As for Ash's Charizard specifically, the Damian theory is interesting but I think it just comes down to Ash being a poor trainer at the time. Charmander hated Damian. That's why it blasted him with its flamethrower attack. I believe that it didn't want to be like Damian any more than Chimchar wanted to be more like Paul.

Secondly, remember how Ash got most of his badges at the time. Since they've been re-airing the Kanto saga again I only counted maybe 3 badges that Ash got by actually beating the gym leader through legitimate battle. Even Brock and Misty didn't respect him. I think Squirtle or Bulbasaur would have disrespected him just the same if they had evolved too.

Lastly, I remember one time shortly before charmander evolved it used a strong fire attack (fire spin maybe?) against an enemy and after the battle it puffed out its chest and got a very proud looking expression on its face. Perhaps that was its true nature. My theory is that Damian was so hurtful to Charmander that it became psychologically damaged and acted more with a timid nature until its confidence was boosted under Ash's ownership. Maybe the combination of its return to its true nature combined with Ash's poor training just made a perfect storm of sorts.

 

[Kenshin5]

Yeah from what I count it goes something like this.

Pewter - Fluke combined with bogus sprinklers
Cerulean - Given because he protected the gym
Vermilion - Won after the second try
Celadon - Awarded for saving Gloom
Fuchsia - From what I remember this was legit, and Charmander did do most of the work.
Saffron - Haunter made her laugh so she gave Ash a badge...
Cinnabar - Lost the first time. Then won cause of Charizard
Viridian - Won cause Giovanni pokemon where in the hands of Jessie and James.

So I could see how that could be construed as a crummy record. And I have no doubt in my mind Ash incompetence through out Kanto was fully known by all of his pokes. Others evolved like Butterfree, Kingler, and Pidgeot but they didn't have a checkered pasted like Charizard. So I think part of his attitude was indeed due to the trauma caused by Damian. On top of that it was thanks in part to Charizard for actually winning two of his badges yes that he actually WON. Maybe his true nature laid a bit dormant and then came to a head upon his evolution.

 

[Grovyle42(Griff8416)]

Because Ash sucks, basically.

Plus to add on, Charizard should have remembered Ash did save its life when he was just a Charmander abandoned in the rain....

It was actually Brock that saved Charmander. Brock really should have gotten Charmander, but the writers copped out and have him to Ash instead. Brock was the most invested in saving Charmander. All Ash did was hold a raincoat which Misty, or even Brock himself, could have done.