4th Gen Graphics too bad for DS?

[Shiny Umbreon]

If you notice, there's not much change in battle graphics from the GBA to D/P. And from what I've seen, the Pokémon don't move. In R/S/E/FR/LG, for example, with wing attack you could see your POkémon moving and it looked good. The move's graphics are slightly better, but the Pokémon only move when they enter battle now.

I think they should have done one of these two things to improve the graphics:

*If it's in 2D, let each Pokémon have some more frames. For example, a Weavile could have one putting its arm a bit back, then forward again to use it when it does Slash or Ice Punch or whatever. At least two of these movements and one with the Pokémon being hit. The GBA was limited, but the DS is like the N64, so they can do better than that.

*If it was in 3D, it would be better. If you notice, Nintendo could make Pokémon Stadium for DS if they wanted to, and it had nice graphics. And if the screen of the DS is far smaller than a TV, it won't look bad at all. The thing is that if it's in 2D, you need a thousand of frames to make it look good. If it's in 3D, you just set up two or three animations for each Pokémon and it's okay. Also, Pokémon wouldn't be standing still when you're selecting moves. They would at least move a bit (like in Stadium).

You may say it would be too difficult, but we can't just keep the graphics from the previous console if you have a console so good.

What do you think?

 

[Vampire://Krimm]

They used the DS Capabilities quite well. Frames for attacks is a pointless waste of time. Pokemon never moved in attacks unless they bobbed back and forth. BTW, obviously you haven't played D/P. Its 2.5d, meaning the houses and the environment tilts as you move away from it, adding to a 3d look

 

[Absolitude]

I think that Nintendo wanted to put the game out faster, and they also didn't want the game to be too expensive. The max amount of storage an NDS card can handle is 2GB. Not Gigabyte, Gigabite. Look it up on wikipedia. It is about equal to that of about 256MB. If they upped it to 2GB just to make the battle scenes better, and make the world in better 3d then it would be about $50. Would you buy both if it was $50 each? Most likely not, so they made it $35. At least at 35 you get $30 extra to keep in your pocket. And also you have to think about production costs. It would cost more to make so they just kept it this way for now until they figured out a way to make the NDS with more, and cheaper storage. By then maybe they will have made more successful things but that will get off topic. So overall they might have been able to make it better if they made it worse in another section, but they decided to even it out a bit because you would spend a lot more time roaming the over world, and underground instead of battling. You wouldn't need to battle to get from Moss deep to Sootopolis would you? Plus sometimes people don't want to battle so they get repel. You have to think like them if your gonna say that they're bad. Would you spend more money to produce bigger storage cartridges, if you knew you would come out with a better one later. No. You would let them enjoy it now, then later on you would keep on improving. If they made this game the best of the best now they wouldn't have anything more to do so we would loose interest and they $. If you want a better game then get a 2GB cartridge, and make it yourself. I don't mean to sound harsh, but that's the way it is. Krimm, what do you mean by tilt when you move away?

 

[Shiny Umbreon]

What about the frames in 2D? It would have been better. Or at least move the same frame from side to side when doing Slash, etc. That's not too much to worry about. They did it with some moves in the GBA, so they could do it here, and better.

BTW, obviously you haven't played D/P. Its 2.5d, meaning the houses and the environment tilts as you move away from it, adding to a 3d look

I know it has a 3D feel, but I meant the battle scenes.

 

[Absolitude]

What are you talking about? The battle frames are in 2d. It just has a bit more of an animated flair to it now. Like the poke balls rolling in, and such. I would personally like it if the battle scenes were in 3d but i would rather have the over world in 3d. It is more important than some silly battle that'll only last at maximum about 30mins. I will be exploring the over world for days. As i said it is all about cost, space, and what people want. I would hate Nintendo if they made the battles in full 3d, and left the world in 2d because to me that would be a waste, and it wouldn't be necessary. As i said, I'm just stating the facts.

 

[Shiny Umbreon]

OK. If 3D sounds too complicated, what I said about having a lot of framese isn't a bad option. They have many frames anyway because they move when they enter battle.

Why not that?

 

[Absolitude]

Well i'm guessing that they didn't want to have too many frames. If your talking about taking away the frames in the beginning and making them into frames for battle that might have been a good idea. IF they hadn't done a guessing ratio. How many times do you enter battle? Lets say about 50 times every 5 hours of gameplay. Without going in too much grass. Now how many times would you use Ice beam if you didn't have a poke that didn't have Ice beam in your team. None. How many times would you use earthquake if you HAD a poke in your party that had the move. Maybe about 10 times without using pp restorers. That is without fainting, and whatnot. You see, you would see your pokes entering battle more often than them using attacks.

 

[~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~]

I wish that they made the in battle in 3D like what they did with everything else. But the game is still good

:t354:~*!*~Queen Boo~*!*~

 

[Chaos Sasuke]

Yeah but the Pokemon Sprites are better New Pokemon, and New Backround Graphic I actually expected it to be worse so Im happy.

 

[Paranoia]

Well, I was just playing the Official Japanese Rom, and the pokemon move when they do an attack!

Also, the whole reason that the game isn't in full 3D is because the NDS can't handle 3D well, It can do it, but if you make a full 3d game, its pretty craptacular, and even though the battle scene isn't 3d, its smoother and nicer looking so it won't really bother you.

Also, I reckon the world 3d/2.5d (You made that up didn't you lol, Krimm) is awesome, its so much better than the other games.

Also Absolutide, I agree with your points, because most of the game is when your on the world map they made that look the best, it would be pointless and, in a manner of speaking, gross for the battle to be 3d as well, because if they make 3d pokemon they need to make 3d moves as well, which once again rises on card size, they would have to make it bigger, Although it wouldn't up the price at all, it would just be to annoying because then they'll have to make a whole new design to fit the space, which would be time consuming.

Btw, its Gigabit, not bite

 

[Samson]

the games graphics are FLAWLESS for D/P. enough said.

though there a lot of flaws in the design aspect of the game, the graphics are perfectly maintained.

 

[Innagadadavida]

Also, the whole reason that the game isn't in full 3D is because the NDS can't handle 3D well, I can do it, but if you make a full 3d game, its pretty craptacular, and even though the battle seen isn't 3d, its smoother and nicer looking so it won't really bother you.

I'm guessing you've never played Metroid Prime. Nintendo DS can handle 3D better than a Nintendo 64.

From Wikipedia:

Nintendo DS uses Point (nearest neighbor) texture filtering, leading to some titles having a blocky appearance. The system is theoretically capable of rendering 120,000 triangles per second at 60 frames per second and the pixel fill rate is 30 million pixels per second. Unlike most 3D hardware, it has a limit on the number of triangles it can render as part of a single scene; this limit is somewhere in the region of 4000 triangles. This is partly down to its use of a form of Scanline rendering. Overall, its 3D visual quality is somewhere between the Nintendo 64 and the Dreamcast. The 3D hardware is designed to render to a single screen at a time, so rendering 3D to both screens is difficult and decreases performance significantly.

The only reason there aren't as many 3D games is because 2D is more familiar to handheld gaming, it's easier and cheaper to make, blocky textures due to the lack of texture filtering (therefore, they do not look as good as they would on a TV).

Size is not a matter either, Nintendo DS cartrages hold about 2.5+ times more than a Playstation (one) disc.

The point is, Diamond and Pearl could have been a 100% 3D game, there is no restrictions that could prevent it. But it isn't.

 

[Bliksem]

Considering a lot of people, like myself, play the games with the battle scenes off just for quicker action, I don't think we're of the group that thinks the graphics are bad. I don't expect Pokemon to accel in the graphics department; it never has. Compare Pokemon RSE with Golden Sun, for example.

Of course, be happy. DP could have had Final Fantasy III's graphics.

 

[Paranoia]

I'm guessing you've never played Metroid Prime. Nintendo DS can handle 3D better than a Nintendo 64.

Yeah, I played it, and It was bad, firstly there was only about 25 enemies all up INCLUDING Samus and the other Bounty Hunters. And the final bosses weren't that great either, they were the same, just a little harder each time. The only reason Metroid Prime can be passed of as a worth to buy game, is its awesome multiplayer addition, If it didn't have it, it wouldn't have gotten as much sales.

Size is not a matter either, Nintendo DS cartrages hold about 2.5+ times more than a Playstation (one) disc.

And a NDS cartridge can only hold 128MB, whereas a PS1 Disc can hold 700MB, this is because a standard NDS cartridge is 1Gigabit, not Gigabyte, a Gigabit roughly equates to 1024 bits, and 8 bits = 1 Byte so, 1024 / 8 = 128MB. Which is nothing compared to a PS1 disc. The More You Know...

 

[Paranoia]

Yeah I know what you mean Hiroshi, the problem IMO is that because they used Bit instead of Byte back when the NES came out, they never really changed it, so when it got to production of the GBA they made it bit instead of byte. So because of that, as the NDS has a GBA slot, they needed both the GBA and NDS to be readable, so they would have stuck with Bit, which has its file size disadvantage.

But theoretically, they could change the NDS card, although I didn't mention it fully in my last post, but what I meant was that all they do at plants is make empty NDS carts then they load the info onto the NDS cartridge and place the game sticker, so if they were to change the size they'd have to redo all that and it would mean D/P would come out later, even though it's inevitable it will happen, it just didn't for now.

 

[Innagadadavida]

Actually that is incorrect, an NDS cartridge can only hold 128MB, whereas a PS1 Disc can hold 700MB, this is because a standard NDS cartridge is 1Gigabit, not Gigabyte, a Gigabit roughly equates to 1024 bits, and 8 bits = 1 Byte so, 1024 / 8 = 128MB. Which is nothing compared to a PS1 disc.

Okay, you're right. I feel stupid now. But the important thing is that I learned something new today.

Honestly, I'm a great web-designer. Please don't kick me out of the geek club!

 

[Paranoia]

Aww, man im sorry after reading it it does seem awfully harsh, ahwell thank god for the EDIT button, mwahahaha (lol jks) (im still going to edit it though)

 

[Shiny Umbreon]

The people in the intro, when the camera is in diagonal, look bad because they're in 2D. They could have been in 3D, but that would mean the battles would have had to be in 3D, too or it would have looked strange. Now that's kind of a lot work but many people would have liked it. Still, the idea of many frames for each Pokémon is not bad, it's one of the things I said it should have since GBA, then I said it was kind of hard, so I said that if D/P was in 2D, they could do that, but they didn't.

By the way, I've played Pokémon XD and it's not SO slow. I know it's a lot of time until you even send out your first Pokémon, but it's acceptable, especially because the battle grpahics are great.

 

[Innagadadavida]

The people in the intro, when the camera is in diagonal, look bad because they're in 2D. They could have been in 3D, but that would mean the battles would have had to be in 3D, too or it would have looked strange. Now that's kind of a lot work but many people would have liked it. Still, the idea of many frames for each Pokémon is not bad, it's one of the things I said it should have since GBA, then I said it was kind of hard, so I said that if D/P was in 2D, they could do that, but they didn't.

By the way, I've played Pokémon XD and it's not SO slow. I know it's a lot of time until you even send out your first Pokémon, but it's acceptable, especially because the battle grpahics are great.

I disagree, I think it would have been perfectly acceptable for the over world graphics to be 100% 3D and the battle graphics to be 2D. They could very well have even made the 3D part cel-shaded so the transition isn't as noticeable.

 

[Absolitude]

Paranoia, it would up the price because think of it as upgrading your comp. To up from 500GB of storage to 1 or even 2TB would cost $ right? Even if you upped it 1GB it would take cash because you would need to buy the extra memory space. I don't doubt they can do it, but when they do it might make the cartridges all big, and it'll just seem like a huge lump to those who own ds lites. They did make a mistake, but they could always change it by coming out with cheaper revolutionary tech. Plus maybe they wanted to make a couple of mills with D/P before they did anything big. Innagadadavida i am against cel shading because it looks horrible. Have you seen Dr.Kawashima in brainage? Doesn't it look bad to you? I'm pretty sure it's only a matter of time before they start making pokemon first person. But they figured that if diagonal 3d worked for AC:WW then it'll work with pokemon. And it did. And Paranoia, it's only off by one "e" it doesn't really matter that much.