IVs are often insignificant, sometimes irrelevant

Neltharion83

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    • Seen Oct 5, 2017
    Hi there :)

    I did a lot of research recently because i have a lot of dust saved up (over 300k) and i really need some pokemon for Gyms that either hit really hard or that are good defenders. I also did quite a few high-end evolutions recently.

    Most times i play with other people, so we talk a lot about the game, and i notice that some people take the IVs too seriously. To say it bluntly: IVs are not the primary factor determining how much potential a pokemon has, they come in third.

    The most important factor is the tier lists, so i will post a section of one here:

    131 Lapras 10
    143 Snorlax 10
    149 Dragonite 10
    40 Wigglytuff 9.5
    62 Poliwrath 9.5
    80 Slowbro 9.5
    103 Exeggutor 9.5
    134 Vaporeon 9.5

    The second most important factor is the move set, here you need to see if the pokemon in general is a better attacker, a better defender, or good at both. Then you research if the moveset is a good attacking moveset, a good defending moveset, or both. Then you match the two. Its a bit awkward when you have a pokemon that is only top-tier because its awesome at attacking gyms, but it has a moveset that is bad for attacking gyms and better for defense. The ones at the top are at the top because they do not really run in these issues.

    The IVs come in third place. I have two pokemon with 100% IV, a perfect 15/15/15, 45 out of 45. Its a Krabby i evolved into a Kingler, and a Mankey that i evolved into a Primeape. I cannot justify spending any dust to power these up, because priority number 1, the tier list, is a dealbreaker. They are both bad even at 100% IV. That brings us to the second dealbreaker, even pokemon higher up in the tier list can be worthless at 100% IV if they get a bad moveset in their final evolution. I have some others with nearly perfect IVs, like 14/15/15 or 15/14/15 that suffer from either being not near the top in the tier lists or they suffer from getting a bad moveset after the final evolution.

    I keep these. Obviously. Maybe one day a trainer function to re-train moves comes, or a trading or breeding function.

    There is an Eevee i evolved early on, before i knew about IVs, into a Vaporeon that got the PERFECT attacking moveset. It has low IVs. I still keep it powered up to the max, because it is very strong. Its 9.5 out of 10 in the tier lists, and it has the perfect attacking moveset, its not good as a defender because nowadays everyone has an antidote against strong water pokemon.

    And then lets look at Drowzee and Hypno, ranked 8.5 which is not too low. Most of my dust goes toward powering up the top of the tier list, i have little dust to spend on these. I catch tons of these, Seen 215, caught 199. I have 465 Drowzee candy right now. Now the dilemma i am facing is that i rarely catch a strong high-level Drowzee with good 80%+ IVs, and the good ones i get in terms of IV are low level and low CP, they need plenty of powering up. Now i can evolve 9 Drowzees, do i evolve the highest CP ones, even if they only have 75%-80% IV, or do i evolve much weaker ones just because their IVs are near perfect?

    Dust is rare, dust has to mostly go to the top of the tier list, so i evolve the higher level ones, as long as their IVs are not too bad, hoping for perfect or near-perfect movesets. Hypno is not too far from the top of the tier list, but you really want to throw most of your dust, ideally, unless you run out of candy, at the top of the tier list. To spend dust, it needs to already be quite high in level, and needs one of the perfect or really good movesets.

    So i see players who overrate the IVs and care too much about IVs. There is a difference between what is rare and awesome in terms of IV and the strongest optimized pokemon of its kind, and the pokemon that actually melt faces in Gyms.

    Now i believe its not just two, its actually 3 factors that stand in the way of IVs being of high importance:

    - Tier lists
    - Movesets after evolving it
    - Dust being hard to get

    TL:DR is some new fad that stands for "Too long, did not read", so you sum it up for thease people using these terms near the end of the post. Its redundant, older people just say:

    In summation, IVs alone cannot determine what you power up and use and what you just keep, the tier lists and movesets are more important, and the fact of dust being rare plays into it. Often it is better for actual gym results to focus on lower IV pokemon, if they have other qualities, and these other qualities are more important. Like being a Lapras, not a Golem.

    Let us discuss this in depth. Right here, right now.
     
    I agree with you especially when it comes to the dust required to power up. I've seen people go crazy over a CP 200 Eevee with >90% IVs, which is great IVs, but you'll use up way too much stardust in powering up anyway that it doesn't matter how strong its IVs are, you'll lose so much stardust you won't be able to max it out or you'll have nothing left for your other pokemon.

    When it comes to tier lists and move sets, however, I think it really depends on the player's goal. I know people that literally don't care at all about any of this. They just want to complete the pokedex, so regardless of IV and pokemon they'll just evolve. Others want powered up pokemon of every kind, so regardless of moveset and tier, they'll spend dust powering up.

    Personally, I WANT strong pokemon that aren't top tier. I got sick of constantly using Vaporeon, Dragonite, and Arcanine to take on gyms, so I started powering up other pokemon. I don't care that Clefable isn't the best on the tier list, it's different and I have no qualms about spending 50k stardust powering it up for example. Now I have a new pokemon to take gyms on with and that keeps it exciting for me. Same with Jolteon. Ultimately, I would like to power up one high IV pokemon of each species.

    Part of the reason I want that is because I have a rather jaded view of gyms: taking down a gym is so easy and retaining gyms is so near impossible that I don't really care how effective my pokemon are. If my pokemon are a bit less effective and it takes me a little bit more time and resources to take down a gym, it's no big deal. If my pokemon gets sent back to me 20 minutes sooner because someone had an easier time taking my gym down, again I don't care much. At the end of the day I can still take down the gyms and they will eventually be taken by someone else and my pokemon will be returned to me. I don't necessarily feel like any of this has much of an effect on the actual gameplay lol
     
    While I agree on Pokemon Tier as primary consideration and move set as another critical factor, IV appraisal for me is a consideration on my evolution criteria. Without a doubt move set of a pokemon (be it a top tier pokemon, on my fave list) would be a deal breaker when powering up. But before I get to move sets, IV appraisal gets into account when I evolve especially those after my Dex evolution entries for hastily leveling up early in the game. I only evolve Wonder pokemons for top tier and fave list pokemons.

    For illustrative case : Magikarp

    Have caught approximately 300 karps (1,100++ candies) and have evolved once. I am in a position to evolve 2 Gyarados more but I am not feeling lucky right now.

    If I will not factor in IV, I will evolve my highest CP karp even if it would get no head way in battle. I have 5 Wonder karps right now ranging from 145-149 CPs while my highest caught so far had 166 CP. I will never evolve the highest CP for karp if IV is crap. I have caught a ton in the process and have so many available options in the long run with better future yield. When things are close, IVs are differentiators.

    Then I did my first evolution, oh crap! What a freaking Gyarados with do the Twister move!
    This would then not proceed to the next level which is star dust power up.

    At the very least, I opened myself to a better long term possibility when short term gains are not much different.
     
    One of my best Pokemon for attacking gyms is a 64% iv vaporeon with hydro pump. I am powering it up while trying to get a higher iv one with same moveset. At the minute it's looking unlikely as the last 3 eevee have evolved into jolteon or flareon. Then when I actually get another vaporeon it probably won't have same move set.

    I evolved a 95% iv magikarp and it had twister special move so didn't bother keeping it. I have a 93% magikarp to evolve next then a few 91% in hope of getting hydro pump.

    I will always try for good iv on any Pokemon but move set needs to be good. I've got a 100% hypno with phychic special move which I will keep powering up.
     
    I have a 90% Vaporeon but it cost me over 30K in stardust to power her up over 2000 CP. Meanwhile I caught a 908 CP Growlithe with 50% IV's. I evolved him and powered him up once or twice, for a fraction of the stardust cost he's at 2133 CP. Long term though, I suppose the Vaporeon will be more useful.

    Sadly, I'm losing interest in the game. At level 26 I have no Lapras, Snorlax or Gyrados, and still 90 Dratini candies away from a Dragonite. Worse, it doesn't appear if I continue that I will be getting these pokemon. If I make Dratini my buddy and bike for 450 Km I could get a Dragonite, I suppose. Around here Dratinis are quite rare, I've only caught one and hatched one.

    I agree about powering up more unusual monsters just to make gyms more diverse. The rarest pokemon I have is probably a Hitmonchan (caught in the wild), makes people stop when they see her in a gym. But only 900 CP, doesn't last long.
     
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    ichiDad said:
    I agree about powering up more unusual monsters just to make gyms more diverse. The rarest pokemon I have is probably a Hitmonchan (caught in the wild), makes people stop when they see her in a gym. But only 900 CP, doesn't last long.
    Click to expand...

    True, a 900 CP Hitmonchan won't last long, but will a 3000 CP Dragonite? A 3000 CP Dragonite may take a little bit longer, but how much longer would it last? Ten minutes? I personally am all for the diversity in the pokemon I choose because I know ultimately all my pokemon will return to me. I'm all for your 900 CP Hitmonchan!

    As for the pokemon you have yet to catch, I know it's really frustrating, but all it takes is one sight in the wild. I was so far from a Dragonite, just as far as you. But randomly one Friday night when I was at a gas station I saw one on my nearby and went and found it to catch it. In the 3 months I've been playing the game, that's the only time I've seen a Dragonite, and that's really all it takes. Although I can't lie, it is wildly frustrating that I essentially have no hopes right now of getting somethin like Muk because I've only caught and seen two grimers ever. Never hatched one, either. But hey with the gym battles to keep me busy and my desire to continue leveling up, plus the gym battles, I'm still interested.

    Rumor has it trading will be out this month as well, so that would be a great way to bolster your pokedex!
     
    level 30. my strongest vaporeon has maxed out 2332 cp with 58% iv. i evolved it back when i didnt know anything about iv stats. it still kicks butt and is one of my main attackers. my friend who is also at level 30 has a maxed out 90% vaporeon and its cp is only 30 or 40 higher than mine.
     
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    ichiDad said:
    I have a 90% Vaporeon but it cost me over 30K in stardust to power her up over 2000 CP. Meanwhile I caught a 908 CP Growlithe with 50% IV's. I evolved him and powered him up once or twice, for a fraction of the stardust cost he's at 2133 CP. Long term though, I suppose the Vaporeon will be more useful.

    Sadly, I'm losing interest in the game. At level 26 I have no Lapras, Snorlax or Gyrados, and still 90 Dratini candies away from a Dragonite. Worse, it doesn't appear if I continue that I will be getting these pokemon. If I make Dratini my buddy and bike for 450 Km I could get a Dragonite, I suppose. Around here Dratinis are quite rare, I've only caught one and hatched one.

    I agree about powering up more unusual monsters just to make gyms more diverse. The rarest pokemon I have is probably a Hitmonchan (caught in the wild), makes people stop when they see her in a gym. But only 900 CP, doesn't last long.
    Click to expand...

    I found two ways to keep it up. Number one is that i joined a Threema Group of local pokemon go players, they are all nice and interesting people. Threema is a high-security cryptographic messenger. Like watsapp or facebook messenger but without the spying and without your data being sold to advertisers. So we plan where to go, and check out good nests and good spots together. That makes it a social game.

    The second thing is that i used pokemesh with a secondary account, and now i use the more comfortable www.fastpokemap.se , it needs no account. That way i actually find all the rare stuff i see in my nearby list.

    Those two things, but mainly the social aspect, make it worthwhile.

    tjumper78 said:
    level 30. my strongest vaporeon has maxed out 2332 cp with 58& iv. i evolved it back when i didnt know anything about iv stats. it still kicks butt and is one of my main attackers. my friend who is also at level 30 has a maxed out 90% vaporeon and its cp is only 30 or 40 higher than mine.
    Click to expand...

    Same here. the effect of lower IVs is rather low. Good movesets and the pokemon being a good one is more important.

    Also, when you really grind arenas, you want several of everything.
     
    Johnny said:
    If you're in for the long run, perfect movesets and IVs is a must. It's also worth noting that moves were and will probably be replaced again; in games like these, the balance of the metagaming is very important and the developers will be constantly on the lookout for game-breaking Pok?mon or possible exploits. Considering that, IVs will be proven more worthy than anything else, since is the only thing set in stone/won't change.
    Click to expand...

    Yup. Once TM feature similar to the original games whether thru poke stop spins or shop purchase, not so good move set/s can be resolved
     
    Johnny said:
    If you're in for the long run, perfect movesets and IVs is a must. It's also worth noting that moves were and will probably be replaced again; in games like these, the balance of the metagaming is very important and the developers will be constantly on the lookout for game-breaking Pok?mon or possible exploits. Considering that, IVs will be proven more worthy than anything else, since is the only thing set in stone/won't change.
    Click to expand...

    Last time they removed movesets, people who already had the pokemon got to keep them. So a lucky few still have them.

    Also, when i look at a level 41.5 pokemon with perfect IVs in the caculator and then lower the IVs, there is a real change, but the change is really small.

    If i have a 100% IV dratini that has a really low level, i obviously keep it. But when i look at the candy it takes to power it up, it may be a decision between having one 100% dragonite or two 80%+ dragonites. If you want to fight and hold many arenas, the two 80% dragonites will be the better deal. Having 5 dragonites at a measly 60% IV may be better still.
     
    Johnny said:
    The point is that the balance of the game will change, doesn't matter if people get to keep their movesets.
    Click to expand...

    There will obviously be balance changes especially as new pokemon get released.

    Then other pokemon with other moveset will be at the top of the tier list.

    How does that make a 100% IV pokemon that is crap due to being a crap pokemon and due to having a bad moveset any better? And can a 75% IV snorlax with a good moveset really go all the way from superior quality to being outright bad with just one meta change?
     
    I caught a Snorlax with over 2000 CP but only 50% IV's. He has Zen Headbutt and Body Slam which seem to be pretty good.

    Meanwhile I evolved a 90% Exeggcute. Unfortunately he ended up with power attack Psychic, which means he is no good for taking out water pokemon.

    Also evolved a 95% Magnemite, he ends up with two electric attacks so it seems he is like all my Jolteons, just lower CP and HP. Would have really liked a Steel power attack, I don't think I have any pokemon with a steel attack.

    Sigh! Life of a trainer! Nothing is ever perfect.
     
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    As I passed level 25, the following problem is happening more and more. The pokemon with the highest IV's is invariably from an egg, but these pokemon are capped at level 20. Meanwhile the highest CP of the same species I have caught in the wild. They tend to be level 25-28 but with lower IV's.

    The dilemma is this: I can evolve the wild pokemon and it will have higher CP but lower IV's. Alternatively if I evolve the egg-hatched pokemon it will have a lower CP, but by investing lots of stardust on it, I can pump it up to the same CP level. So I will end up with a better pokemon, but it will cost me stardust, and I don't have unlimited stardust.
     
    ichiDad said:
    As I passed level 25, the following problem is happening more and more. The pokemon with the highest IV's is invariably from an egg, but these pokemon are capped at level 20. Meanwhile the highest CP of the same species I have caught in the wild. They tend to be level 25-28 but with lower IV's.

    The dilemma is this: I can evolve the wild pokemon and it will have higher CP but lower IV's. Alternatively if I evolve the egg-hatched pokemon it will have a lower CP, but by investing lots of stardust on it, I can pump it up to the same CP level. So I will end up with a better pokemon, but it will cost me stardust, and I don't have unlimited stardust.
    Click to expand...
    I would advocate patience. Also, it depends on what you consider to be "high IVs." At least 41/45 (91.1%)? 36/45 (80%)? 30/45 (66.7%)?

    It's all luck-based. "Rolling" a Pok?mon's stats, in both GO and core series games, is equivalent to rolling stats on items/equipment in loot-hunting games. It just comes down to repeating the grind until you find what you're looking for.

    For example, I'm level 32 and I've never hatched a single Dratini before. My two main Dragonite, however, are both 41/45 IVs (91.1%), caught in the wild obviously. My main Exeggutor was also caught in the wild and probably my luckiest find as it was caught at over CP900 with IVs at 43/45 (95.6%). My Lapras (15/13/10 - 84.4%) was also caught in the wild and at over CP2300... on a random lure to boot. I still remember that sweet August day.

    So it is possible to find wild Pok?mon with high IVs, it's just all luck. Hatched Pok?mon by default have above average IV spreads so you'll see more candidates to keep in that regard. It's a fair trade-off in a sense.
     
    I certainly agree that wild pokemon can have high IV, they are just rare. It seems about half the eggs I hatch are "a wonder", which means IV's over 84%. I'm not complaining, I think figuring out what to evolve is one of the most interesting strategy aspects of the game. I like it that there is a limited resource, stardust, that can't be purchased.
     
    Sometimes lady luck is really not on your side. My best IV Squirtle (@95%) when I evolved up to Blastoise had Flash Cannon as charge move. While my first Gyarados had Twister.

    Still, IVs would be one of my filters on what to evolve. Yet move sets would be a consideration on what to power up.
     
    I've noticed the majority of Pokemon that I evolve that have good iv's usually end up with a bad moveset, judging by what people are saying on this thread it isn't only me who is having this problem.
     
    Illusionss said:
    I've noticed the majority of Pokemon that I evolve that have good iv's usually end up with a bad moveset, judging by what people are saying on this thread it isn't only me who is having this problem.
    Click to expand...

    Not always, though. I have a 100% 15/15/15 Vileplume with Razor Leaf and Solar Beam. I have powered it up to CP 2101, which seems too high CP for battling friendly gyms. So now it is a gym defender.

    Also my only Gyarados (87% IV's) did not end up with Twister. It has Dragon Pulse.
     
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    ichiDad said:
    Not always, though. I have a 100% 15/15/15 Vileplume with Razor Leaf and Solar Beam. I have powered it up to CP 2101, which seems too high CP for battling friendly gyms. So now it is a gym defender.

    Also my only Gyarados (87% IV's) did not end up with Twister. It has Dragon Pulse.
    Click to expand...

    I didn't mean all the time, I meant it seems more common that a high iv Pokemon will have a bad move set, it seems whenever I evolve a Pokemon with low/mid iv's they end up with good movesets. Obviously it doesn't happen all the time and I also have a Gyarados with similar iv's which ended up with dragon pulse. It's just frustrating when you evolve a high CP Pokemon with 100% iv's just for them to end up with the worst moveset, they need to add a way to be able to change them.
     
    Yes not all the time. My perfect IV Rapidash got the perfect skill set in Ember Fireblast and my 2nd Gyarados had Dragon Pulse (Still I would prefer Hydro Pump for STAB but an anti-drag aint so bad).

    Still whatever the game gives to you would spell out your next immediate steps. It's just that there are bad luck more frustrating than others especially when it involves a magikarp grind or a not-so-common pokemon.
     
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