Questions re: competitive battling, Part 1

Handsome Samurott

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    I have never been too interested in or capable at competitive battling. With the advent of Generation 6, however, I want to take full advantage of the capabilities of the game by learning more about competitive battling and developing a team that takes account of the complexities and nuances of the metagame while still being unique.

    Learning about and getting good at competitive battling takes time, so I will probably create one thread for each topic that I want to know more about. If one of my questions has already been answered elsewhere, please kindly refer me to that thread. In your responses, be mindful that, while I familiar with Pokemon in general and with the in-game play, I am not familiar with the metagame, its jargon, and the items and methods associated with it. So, be as simple and educating as possible, please. Thank you for your help, everyone! Without further ado, here is my first question.

    Question 1: How do you determine which Pokemon are viable for competitive battling? What rules, guidelines, and suggestions exist for making this determination?
     
    Is Smogon considered the canon for standard competitive battling? Do most people use and abide by those traditional standards? If those are indeed the case, then I would answer your question with a yes.
     
    Handsome Samurott said:
    Is Smogon considered the canon for standard competitive battling? Do most people use and abide by those traditional standards? If those are indeed the case, then I would answer your question with a yes.
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    Depends on the case; Smogon isn't nearly as homogenous as some people think. Smogon Singles Tiers (6v6) are apparently their most popular formats. They are very different from standard in-game play and have a few house rules like Sleep Clause and Evasion Clause.

    The 'official' format depends on the season but most of the times they are Doubles there you have to pick four of your team of six (4v4) and pit them against the opponent. In the moment you are only allowed to use Kalos Pokemon. The Item Clause is active (only one item per team).

    There is also the new Smogon Doubles this generation, which is similar in team building to VGC but allows you to use your full team (6v6). Compared to the official play, they allow every Pokemon appropiate to their tier. Not only will you face a lot of non-Kalos Pokemon and movesets, you also will face Pokemon you will never see otherwise like the maboroshi no pokemon and Kyurem-B. Also, they lack the Item Clause and a few other from Singles.


    We for example only use the Pokemon Showdown simulator for Smogon Singles, but gear out in-game team for Doubles. That way we have the best of both worlds, don't you think?
     
    Onicon,

    Let me do some reading on Smogon tonight after work and then perhaps I can formulate my question(s) with greater precision.
     
    Let's put this in another context.

    Do you want to battle singles? Smogon ruleset is the most popular ruleset around and most PC battlers go by their rules.

    Do you want to battle in real life in official competitions? If you do, you'll need to learn doubles and VGC rules.

    I'm not saying that the two are mutually exclusive or that you can't pick triples or rotational. It's just that it's better if you pick one and get used to battling before you check out something else or else you'll get rather jumbled up. Furthermore, what you pick will drastically change how much help you can expect here on PC, since experienced raters here are primarily singles battlers. Lastly, us VGC players like to tell new players that if they want to learn VGC, they have to forget everything they've learned from Smogon. ;3
     
    Griffinbane said:
    Lastly, us VGC players like to tell new players that if they want to learn VGC, they have to forget everything they've learned from Smogon. ;3
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    In our opinion this is not true. Knowlegde have we picked up from Smogon have a lot of applicability in other metagames - the challenge is to realize the difference between VGC and Smogon. For example, a lot of support fighting types in Smogon Doubles are geared towards surviving Cresselia and Togekiss. In VGC however, both of them are illegal (in this season at least), instead you should make sure Gardevoir does not run you over. Likewise, Talonflame is prevalent in both tiers but additionally you have to be aware of a possible CB set with U-Turn in Smogon Doubles because it is much more useful in 6v6 than in 4v4. Non-stab Earthquake is slightly more prevalent in Smogon because of Heatran while in the current VGC format the omnipresent Rotom-Chomp combo discourages you from quaking.
    In the end, it is important to understand why this tier works like it does. You can play in any format you want as long as you are aware of how to adapt the knowledge you have gained to another one.

    Additionally: Something to keep in mind is that VGC is a seasonal occurence and not as stable as Smogon. In the moment only Kalos Pokemon and movesets are allowed. What if the next tournament allows every Pokemon born in Kalos (no Cress, no Heatran, no BW2 tutors)? Or every Pokemon in existence (VGC10, TopOgre rules)? If you ask us, we will tell you that Smogon is slightly more accessible than VGC. That should not stop you from taking a look at the other formats from time to time, in our opinion at least.
     
    I was actually comparing Smogon singles with VGC. I forgot that Smogon doubles existed. Again. Still... right now a lot of Smogon doubles are inapplicable to VGC because of mass of bans. When the rules are updated next season to allow most of the old stuff, then it'll be more... well, related I guess the best word will be.

    tbh, I don't think TopOgre will ever exist in VGC again. With Premier Challenges starting up in June, I can't see AlphaZealot willing to change the rules that drastically. I'm willing to put money on that he'll follow the pattern of dex-restriction the year a new gen comes out, and an updated version of VGC '12-13 for all other years.
     
    Actually, we were talking about the applicability of the metagaming, not the banlist. To be fair, the most you get out of Singles is that entry hazards are much more potent when you are switching a lot and that the lack of double-targeting in the combination with entry hazards push you to take low accuracy moves over the safe counter parts, but Doubles work very similar to VGC even when the banlist is different.

    PS: The best word would be 'relatable' and I should die for that remark.
     
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