Theorycrafting Gym Update Mechanics (iOS 1.11.2 | Android 0.41.2)

[VisualJae]

Edit: For those interested in getting the most out of prestige training as of version 1.11.2 (iOS) and 0.41.2 (Android), you should know the following.

Prestige formula:

If your attacking Pokémon CP < defending Pokémon CP:
500 * (Defender CP / Attacker CP)

If your attacking Pokémon CP > defending Pokémon CP:
310 * (Defender CP / Attacker CP) – 55
minimum prestige gained is 100​

This formula is unchanged from the previous version of Pokémon GO. However, now with the ability to bring in six Pokémon to train, the game only takes into account the highest level Pokémon you bring into the Gym, regardless of whether or not you use it in battle.

Based on this video I recorded...


The highest CP Pokémon I had in my party at the time was a CP2435 Lapras.

First match: Vs. CP397 Bulbasaur
Points gained: 100 (based on the formula, it would be in the negatives, so the minimum of 100 points applies here)

Second match: Vs. CP2200 Snorlax
Points gained: 310 * (2200 / 2435) - 55 = 225.082

Third match: Vs. CP2298 Vaporeon
Points gained: 310 * (2298 / 2435) - 55 = 237.559

Fourth match: Vs. CP3048 Dragonite
Points gained: 500 * (3048 / 2435) = 625.873

100 + 225.082 + 237.559 + 625.873 = 1189 prestige points as shown at the end of the video.

Ta-da.

So what you should do from a strategy standpoint is very straightforward. Just pick all Pokémon that's around the range of all the defending Pokémon's CP levels and use them in battle. Or if you're daring, the minimum CP you can use while staying alive and making progress. In the video above, I would have been better off using my offensive CP2435 Lapras rather than my lower level one as the resulting prestige gained wouldn't have changed. Or I could've just not brought that Lapras along and gained a lot more prestige points in the end.

Original theorycrafting/thought-dump (for reference only; don't use as facts):

Spoiler:

I'm sure many players have been checking out to see how much leveling up a Gym's prestige is in the most recent update in Pokémon GO.

Some players have claimed they don't notice a difference. Others are having some difficulty gaining prestige points.

I've dabbled a bit after work today and at least from my experience, leveling prestige is much easier solely because you can carry a team of six Pokémon with you. It doesn't seem like the formula for prestige points gained per match (dependent on the Pokémon matchup) changed.

For instance, I raised the Gym on the left from level 1 to 5 on my own. The session took approximately 20 minutes, but that included taking the time experimenting with selecting which Pokémon to use.

The method I used isn't any different than what's already known. You battle the Gym's Pokémon using ones with lower CP. For those who don't know, defeating a Gym's Pokémon with a lower CP one yields you higher gains per match.

The only difference now is that you get to bring six Pokémon with you. Initially, I tried using my offensive Dragonite (CP3069) to go against my defensive one in the Gym. One on one, winning the match yields +251 prestige points for the Gym. Not a whole lot. Even after a random player came by and inserted a CP980 Hypno, winning both matches yielded +351 points.

I then tried to use my CP2435 Lapras to battle both the Hypno and Dragonite. Winning both matches still yielded +351 points. However, I then discovered that if my CP3069 Dragonite is incapacitated (basically HP is near depleted and the game decides to not insert it into the preselected six Pokémon), winning both battles with my Lapras then yielded +720 prestige points.

In addition, I tried manually removing my CP3069 Dragonite, at full HP, from the party. When I won both battles with my Lapras, the prestige gain went back to +351. So far the only way I could net a bigger prestige gain per match was if my higher CP Pokémon (in this case the Dragonite) was completely out of the picture.

Knowing this, I still tried to change every member of the starting six other than the CP2435 Lapras to extremely low CP Pokèmon, ranging from double digits to just hundreds. Bear in mind the CP3069 Dragonite is at full health, despite not being in the party. After winning the matches, the prestige gain was still at +351. Again, the only time it was at +720 was when my CP3069 Dragonite was completely out of the picture.

Another factor that I haven't considered yet is the diverse gap in CP between Gym defenders. For instance, in this Gym I leveled up, there are only two Pokémon in there despite being level 5. A CP980 Hypno and my CP3023 Dragonite. Should a Gym be filled with a bunch of Pokémon ranging from CP1000 to CP3000, I wonder what the prestige gains would be should you only use a couple of Pokémon that had a CP equivalent to the average of those faced in the Gym?

But back to having to remove certain Pokémon out of the party. I'm not sure if this is a design oversight or what, but it's a little odd that I cannot manually remove my CP3069 Dragonite in order to increase the prestige gained per match. Even odder is having to adapt and purposely put my Dragonite out of commission just so the game doesn't keep preselecting it as part of the starting six. I can see players getting very frustrated in having to reselect their starting six team every single time and having to take the time to prep and manipulate the system just to raise prestige.

I have not tried rearranging the list of Pokémon I've "favorited." I know that would be one way to manipulate the starting six Pokémon the game picks for you upon engaging a Gym.

In the end, what I did for this particular Gym was no different than what I did in the past for prestige leveling. I essentially only used one Pokémon in this case, but for sure it's going to benefit prestige training higher level Gyms where it's infeasible to use a single Pokémon to take out, say, six or seven higher CP ones. For those who have played around with the new Gym update, have you noticed anything else significantly different about prestige training? Anything to play off what I mentioned here?

 

[ichiDad]

Thanks for the report! I don't quite understand what happened, did your Dragonite really affect the prestige gain of the battle even when it wasn't among the 6 selected? This would seem strange, or was it just in the set of 6 but never used?

It would make sense if it was now the total CP of your 6 vs that of the gym that matters. But more investigation is needed to see how it really works.

Yesterday I beat two pokemon with one having lower CP than either defender, then I gave up. Before this would have netted over 1000 prestige, but now I only got around 400. I didn't use the remaining 5 pokemon, and I didn't try changing them out. I figured they had no affect on things since they were not used, but apparently this is not true. It seems there should be an even bigger bonus if you can beat two or three pokemon with one.

 

[Kid=1412]

I was training at a friendly gym yesterday with prestige way below protection like 200+ remaining with 1 friendly defender yet my battle did not end as apparently an opponent team was attacking the same time as me and gained control of the gym while I was training. My battle continued to fight the new team at the gym and because training allowed more pokemons, I get to use the other pokemon attackers.

It was a weird thing as I was able to battle a gym that changed color in the middle of the fight. Normally, I would expect at least you get logged out in between.

 

[VisualJae]

Thanks for the report! I don't quite understand what happened, did your Dragonite really affect the prestige gain of the battle even when it wasn't among the 6 selected? This would seem strange, or was it just in the set of 6 but never used?

I'm having doubts if I was mistaken or something right now as that shouldn't be the case.

Yesterday I beat two pokemon with one having lower CP than either defender, then I gave up. Before this would have netted over 1000 prestige, but now I only got around 400. I didn't use the remaining 5 pokemon, and I didn't try changing them out. I figured they had no affect on things since they were not used, but apparently this is not true. It seems there should be an even bigger bonus if you can beat two or three pokemon with one.

It's come to my attention the formula for calculating prestige gained is:

Your attacking Pokémon CP < defending Pokémon CP:
500 * (Defender CP / Attacker CP)

Your attacking Pokémon CP > defending Pokémon CP:
310 * (Defender CP / Attacker CP) – 55
minimum prestige gained is 100

This formula is unchanged from the previous version of Pokémon GO. However, now with the ability to bring in six Pokémon to train, the game only takes into account the highest level Pokémon you bring into the Gym, regardless of whether or not you use it in battle.

Based on this video I recorded...


The highest CP Pokémon I had in my party at the time was a CP2435 Lapras.

First match: Vs. CP397 Bulbasaur
Points gained: 100 (based on the formula, it would be in the negatives, so the minimum of 100 points applies here)

Second match: Vs. CP2200 Snorlax
Points gained: 310 * (2200 / 2435) - 55 = 225.082

Third match: Vs. CP2298 Vaporeon
Points gained: 310 * (2298 / 2435) - 55 = 237.559

Fourth match: Vs. CP3048 Dragonite
Points gained: 500 * (3048 / 2435) = 625.873

100 + 225.082 + 237.559 + 625.873 = 1189 prestige points as shown at the end of the video.

Ta-da.

So what you should do from a strategy standpoint is very straightforward. Just pick all Pokémon that's around the range of all the defending Pokémon's CP levels and use them in battle. Or if you're daring, the minimum CP you can use while staying alive and making progress. In the video above, I would have been better off using my offensive CP2435 Lapras rather than my lower level one as the resulting prestige gained wouldn't have changed. Or I could've just not brought that Lapras along and gained a lot more prestige points in the end.

Editing original post to reflect information.

 

[Kid=1412]

I've watched Nick's (TRNR Tips) video and he has been earning 1k per pokemon for using half the CP pokemons to train gyms. Ofcourse, he is not normal as he is like the King of Dodging.

 

[ichiDad]

Today I raised two level 9 gyms to level 10, and the above formulas make sense. I didn't write down all the prestige gains, but I was able to get several thousand prestige by beating all or most of the 9 monsters with my six. It took a while, in one case I had to do it three times since the gym started out somewhere around 42K.

Before the update you often had to win the same battle over and over (20 times, sometimes), especially when you had no chance in the second battle. It is definitely more fun now that you don't have to use the same pokemon the whole time.

 

[Neltharion83]

Playing the rock-paper-scissors game by switching pokemon around to exploit type-based weaknesses is amazingly effective.

Switching to replace weaknesses with strengths costs a little bit of time and you get hit 1 or 2 extra times, but its very much worth it in the end.

 

[ichiDad]

Has anyone tried this? Line up six low CP monsters with the aim of beating only the lowest gym pokemon. For example, suppose you had six 200 CP pokemon against one 1000 CP defender. If you manage to win this one battle, the prestige gain should be 2500 points!

 

[VisualJae]

Has anyone tried this? Line up six low CP monsters with the aim of beating only the lowest gym pokemon. For example, suppose you had six 200 CP pokemon against one 1000 CP defender. If you manage to win this one battle, the prestige gain should be 2500 points!

Unless this was changed with the recent update, this shouldn't be possible.

I know for a fact the minimum prestige you can gain in a match is and was 100 (for example your attacking Pokémon is beyond double the defending Pokémon's CP). The maximum for one battle is 1000 (attacker is half the CP of the defender).

If they didn't change the minimum, I don't expect them to change the maximum.

Getting one big haul of prestige points is all fine and dandy, but you're going to have to start considering how much time you spend per full round and also how many potions and/or revives you end up using. For example, I'm personally loaded on Hyper and Max Potions, and I'm not as willing to use my Max Revives. Using a basic Revive would mean I have to combine it with one or more Super Potions or Hyper Potion, so I'm not keen on that either (plus I don't keep too many Revives in my bag to begin with).

Based on the video I recorded yesterday, had I removed my CP2435 Lapras from the starting party, I would have netted 1512 prestige points instead of 1189 (323 point difference). The battle itself took about 2.5 minutes (152 seconds). I'm sure if I optimized properly, such as using an Exeggutor around the same CP as my Gyarados, it probably would've shaved a solid 10-15 seconds from the battle. That's about 40,000 prestige points per hour, or way more than enough to raise that particular Gym to level 10.

 

[ichiDad]

It annoys me when I level up a gym and someone else inserts their pokemon before I can. If someone is watching the gym closely, it seems they can always beat you since you have to exit the gym and then re-enter. Meanwhile the lurker presumably just sits on the opening gym screen and waits for the add pokemon button.

I wonder if there is some change Niantic can make which will give the person who levels up the gym priority for adding a pokemon? For example, can't the person who levels up the gym be asked right then what they would like to add, rather than having to exit and re-enter? Or maybe there could be a 30 second delay to the add pokemon button appearing, for everyone except for the person who leveled up the gym.

 

[tjumper78]

It annoys me when I level up a gym and someone else inserts their pokemon before I can. If someone is watching the gym closely, it seems they can always beat you since you have to exit the gym and then re-enter. Meanwhile the lurker presumably just sits on the opening gym screen and waits for the add pokemon button.

I wonder if there is some change Niantic can make which will give the person who levels up the gym priority for adding a pokemon? For example, can't the person who levels up the gym be asked right then what they would like to add, rather than having to exit and re-enter? Or maybe there could be a 30 second delay to the add pokemon button appearing, for everyone except for the person who leveled up the gym.

this is my biggest complaint as well. took some time and raised over 7000 points just to see someone throwing in his/her pokemon before i did. i no longer even bother to train up gyms unless im sure that theres no one around for this reason. even if theres no one around, im often concerned about the gps spoofers.

 

[ichiDad]

this is my biggest complaint as well. took some time and raised over 7000 points just to see someone throwing in his/her pokemon before i did. i no longer even bother to train up gyms unless im sure that theres no one around for this reason. even if theres no one around, im often concerned about the gps spoofers.

A few times this has happened and there appeared to be nobody nearby playing the game. But I assumed they were keeping a low profile in a car. One time a woman came over and confessed that she had added the pokemon. Then she nicely cooperated with me and we both got it up another level for my pokemon.

 

[VisualJae]

I personally don't mind people jumping in while I'm leveling up prestige. I would rather they jump in than not.

It's hilarious if I free up three, four, five open spaces in a friendly Gym and there's only two of us in there.

Also brings me closer to a gold medal for Ace Trainer {XD}

 

[ichiDad]

Some gyms are definitely easier to level up than others. Today I found a level 9 friendly gym with one 1950 CP Vaporeon at the bottom followed by four fire pokemon around 2000 CP. Staying under 1950 CP I used my Vileplume to take out the Vaporeon, and then two Vaporeons to take out the 4 fire pokemon. The last 3 monsters I never used, I just kept them under 1950 CP. For defeating all 5 pokemon and then giving up I raised the gym prestige by around 2700!

I added my 2200 CP vaporeon, making the gym level 10. It is a rather weak level 10 gym, since there are still a lot of fire pokemon (over half).

Before the update, I would have had to beat the vaporeon with my vileplume more than 15 times, since the vileplume wouldn't stand a chance against the fire pokemon.

 

[tjumper78]

going with pokemons with half the cp of the defenders can gain more points but it takes too long too often. i just put 6 appropriate pokemons whose cp's are 20~30% lower than the first defender, and try to beat as many as possible.