Wall: Umbreon

[shedinjask]

Charm and Yawn are meant to screw over switch-ins. What you do is bring it in on something that can't hurt it, then ruin their counter, Wish maybe, then switch. Protect/Wish can heal you just fine, if something takes a Charm it's not going to 2HKO you. Adamant CB Heracross Megahorn/CC is the only thing that does that after Charm, and like I said, nobody uses Adamant CB Heracross. Charm also prevents physical attackers from setting up. Even special attackers have trouble damaging it despite the lack of EVs, and nobody brings a special attacker in on Umbreon anyways. Excellent for fragile things to get in. Better at walling than you would believe. Maybe you would like an attacking move on it, but I don't. Yes Taunt screws it over, but Taunt is predictable, and if I see Gyarados then I switch to Thunderbolt Gengar, who is probably being healed by Wish on the switch. You can't just judge a Pokemon by itself. It's part of a team. And for the last time, Yawn is for pseudo-hazing, it can Protect to ensure safety. They're supposed to switch, that's the point, so please stop mentioning it. And it does go through subs in D/P. I don't care how much you think you know about this, spectulation is no substitute for actual experience, which I have had a lot of with this Umbreon. It works, believe me. No I am not battling idiots. The whole point of this set is to get something set up. If Porygon-Z or Azelf or DDGyara has a free switch in to something that will switch out, healed by Wish the same turn, it wins. And if Umbreon helps it, then it has done its job well.

 

[Shiraishi]

the point for me is if im gonna use an umbreon, i want to use an umbreon like a man. a stron pokemon liking, body building man. more attack than just annoying moves in general- just cause its one of my favs. but in competitive battling, it can be useful. another thing for me, is that my umbreon is shiny- so its of no use cause i cant egg move it... but htats just me. i do partially agree with shedinjask

An umbreon with more attack moves than annoying/phazing moves is one of the most idiotic things you can do in competetive battling.

 

[c_dog]

Charm and Yawn are meant to screw over switch-ins. What you do is bring it in on something that can't hurt it, then ruin their counter, Wish maybe, then switch. Protect/Wish can heal you just fine, if something takes a Charm it's not going to 2HKO you. Adamant CB Heracross Megahorn/CC is the only thing that does that after Charm, and like I said, nobody uses Adamant CB Heracross. Charm also prevents physical attackers from setting up. Even special attackers have trouble damaging it despite the lack of EVs, and nobody brings a special attacker in on Umbreon anyways. Excellent for fragile things to get in. Better at walling than you would believe. Maybe you would like an attacking move on it, but I don't. Yes Taunt screws it over, but Taunt is predictable, and if I see Gyarados then I switch to Thunderbolt Gengar, who is probably being healed by Wish on the switch. You can't just judge a Pokemon by itself. It's part of a team. And for the last time, Yawn is for pseudo-hazing, it can Protect to ensure safety. They're supposed to switch, that's the point, so please stop mentioning it. And it does go through subs in D/P. I don't care how much you think you know about this, spectulation is no substitute for actual experience, which I have had a lot of with this Umbreon. It works, believe me. No I am not battling idiots. The whole point of this set is to get something set up. If Porygon-Z or Azelf or DDGyara has a free switch in to something that will switch out, healed by Wish the same turn, it wins. And if Umbreon helps it, then it has done its job well.

you clearly don't know what you're talking about. why the heck would a heracross use megahorn on it anyway? heracross is part fighting so it's going to use a fighting move, most likely close combat for stab, and also for SE against umbreon.

nothing is scared of umbreon. nothing. charm won't even work on metagross who has clear body and doesn't get past subsitute, and special sweepers dont care about charm. a choice spec alakazam knocks it out with focus blast. a pikachu would even like to use encore after you use charm and set up nasty plot to sweep your entire team. your set fails on so many level it's not even funny, and I can't believe I even need to explain WHY it fails. It's quite pointless because no matter how you insist otherwise, your set would only work against idiots.

and are you seriously sure about yawn getting past substitute? i seriously doubt it because i use yawn and if it can get past substitute, I would know. I remember using it on quicker pokemon who avoided it by subsituting up, so you're not only a pretender but a liar as well.

 

[shedinjask]

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Megahorn has the same BP as Close Combat, and it's also SE. So Hera might use it if he didn't want the defense down, or he is trying to predict. Yawn works on Metagross, who can't really do much to Umbreon. Meteor Mash is at best a 3HKO, with Choice Band and I can scout for Hammer Arm, which is a 2HKO with CB. If Pika is Yawned, then it's screwed, and if Charm gets it, my team can take a Pikachu. I'd probably switch out at the first sign of it anyways. Yes, Zam can get it with Focus Blast, but it only has 70% acc. and I'd just switch to Gengar if it was CSpecs. If it isn't, then the rest of my team can get it. I can revenge kill it if I have to. A loss to one Pokemon does not mean something is bad. And just so you know, Focus Blast is never a OHKO from Zam on Umbreon. I can Yawn it and heal later if I absolutely have to. Nothing is scared of Umbreon because people like you are preaching bull**** about it, but after I try it with people they think twice about what to send in on it.

Don't ****ing call me a liar. It gets past subs, I know it does, it was changed for D/P. Do some research before you insult me. And while I'm pretty sure I've battled some idiots with this, I've battled some experts too. Yes, it does lose. Yes, it's not perfect. No, it does not suck and I'm not going to listen to you say it does unless you've used it and used it well and failed miserably with it over the course of many battles.

 

[Feuerbach]

Okay, so Jolly is not an option, as I thought.
Thanks for the tips again.

And guys, take it easy. Really.

Naos: I use him for the same reason I use Vileplume over a much better Special Sweeper and Steelix over a much better Physical Wall. Some setups are really over-regurgitated. They won't take me to the top, but I enjoy them :P

 

[c_dog]

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Megahorn has the same BP as Close Combat, and it's also SE. So Hera might use it if he didn't want the defense down, or he is trying to predict. Yawn works on Metagross, who can't really do much to Umbreon. Meteor Mash is at best a 3HKO, with Choice Band and I can scout for Hammer Arm, which is a 2HKO with CB. If Pika is Yawned, then it's screwed, and if Charm gets it, my team can take a Pikachu. I'd probably switch out at the first sign of it anyways. Yes, Zam can get it with Focus Blast, but it only has 70% acc. and I'd just switch to Gengar if it was CSpecs. If it isn't, then the rest of my team can get it. I can revenge kill it if I have to. A loss to one Pokemon does not mean something is bad. And just so you know, Focus Blast is never a OHKO from Zam on Umbreon. I can Yawn it and heal later if I absolutely have to. Nothing is scared of Umbreon because people like you are preaching bull**** about it, but after I try it with people they think twice about what to send in on it.

Don't ****ing call me a liar. It gets past subs, I know it does, it was changed for D/P. Do some research before you insult me. And while I'm pretty sure I've battled some idiots with this, I've battled some experts too. Yes, it does lose. Yes, it's not perfect. No, it does not suck and I'm not going to listen to you say it does unless you've used it and used it well and failed miserably with it over the course of many battles.

you clearly don't know nothing. you know why heracross uses close combat? 120 base power and 100% accuracy. compare that to megahorn with only 85% power. megahorn isn't used unless the pokemon is resistant to its other moves, that's the general rule of thumb to always stick with the higher accuracy move when you can. -def/sdef means nothing to it because it's not meant to be hit, and it's just going to switch out if it meets something that's resistant. and what? pikachu's not affected by charm, at least most aren't. most pikachu's are special sweepers. and pikachu's not afraid of yawn because it'll switch in when you use charm and encore charm so it can stat up. you clearly don't understand the mechanism of encore and stat up. not like you'll run into a lot of pikachu anyway. and CS alakazam is so ou it's not even funny. A lot of special sweepers carry focus blast for blissey(gengar, sceptile, even raichu, charizard), ready to take it down when it least expects it, so umbreon, being much more fragile, hardly stands a chance.

i still don't believe yawn works on subs. it'll only work if you yawn before they sub, but once that sub is up, i doubt yawn would work. i think you were mistaken buddy. that beats the whole point of substitutes.

you know what, why don't you and i battle? show me how your umbreon works. i'll even put up subs and you can use yawn to prove me wrong.

 

[shedinjask]

Megahorn is for out-predicting. I might switch to Cressy to take the CC and get a Megahorn to the face instead. And before you say anything, yes Cressy can take CC pretty well. As for the defense down, you'd be surprised at how well Hera takes hits. It can make a difference, Magnezone Thunderbolt comes to mind. I know Charm doesn't do much to Pikachu, my point was that if I see a Pikachu switch into Charm, I'm switching out. But it might switch into Yawn. I know how Encore works thanks. I think you misunderstood me, Specszam is not a problem because Gengar and Gallade, who I also use on this team, take Focus Blast pretty well. It's really the Life Orb versions that are trouble, and like I said, I'm pretty sure I can take those too. And btw, a 70% acc move that barely 3HKOs isn't a Blissey counter. Specszam is the only one that has a shot at 2HKOing. You're much better off with Focus Punch or something.

I don't have Wi-Fi, so we can't battle there. Shoddy maybe, but I don't think that would convince you of the Yawn/Sub thing since it still has a few glitches. Tell you what, I'll ask on Smogon. They'll know. Besides, I would be at a slight disadvantage since you know my set. Surprise is a factor in this.

 

[c_dog]

Megahorn is for out-predicting. I might switch to Cressy to take the CC and get a Megahorn to the face instead. And before you say anything, yes Cressy can take CC pretty well. As for the defense down, you'd be surprised at how well Hera takes hits. It can make a difference, Magnezone Thunderbolt comes to mind. I know Charm doesn't do much to Pikachu, my point was that if I see a Pikachu switch into Charm, I'm switching out. But it might switch into Yawn. I know how Encore works thanks. I think you misunderstood me, Specszam is not a problem because Gengar and Gallade, who I also use on this team, take Focus Blast pretty well. It's really the Life Orb versions that are trouble, and like I said, I'm pretty sure I can take those too. And btw, a 70% acc move that barely 3HKOs isn't a Blissey counter. Specszam is the only one that has a shot at 2HKOing. You're much better off with Focus Punch or something.

I don't have Wi-Fi, so we can't battle there. Shoddy maybe, but I don't think that would convince you of the Yawn/Sub thing since it still has a few glitches. Tell you what, I'll ask on Smogon. They'll know. Besides, I would be at a slight disadvantage since you know my set. Surprise is a factor in this.

surprise is a factor but i'll let you use your set and i'm not even going to use the right counter or purposedly try to break it. i'm going to do things like substitute the same turn you use yawn, and if it does indeed get past subs, congrats you made my pokemon drowsy :/ quite frankly i find your umbreon completely harmless.

i find it funny you talk big but when i ask you to amuse me with your skills you start saying things like you don't have wifi. lol, yeah, i'm sure you've battled some real "experts" without wifi.

 

[shedinjask]

I play on Shoddy Battle. It's a D/P battling sim. If you really feel like you're right, though, I can test Yawn/Sub right now.

EDIT: Wait, no I can't. I don't have anything with Substitute.

EDIT2: "Puts the target to Sleep at the end of the second turn. Yawn will always hit the target unless they are using Protect, Detect, or are in the middle of using Dig, Dive, Fly, or Bounce. Yawn fails if the target switches out or leaves the field via U-Turn." ~ https://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21870

 

[Sora_8920]

I play on Shoddy Battle. It's a D/P battling sim. If you really feel like you're right, though, I can test Yawn/Sub right now.

Please get out, i'll report if the spamming keep's up. In-fact, i think i'll do it right now. Edit: Reported.

 

[aragornbird]

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c_dog and Feuerbach, dont double post. c_dog, you should know better. Who cares about Pikachu anyways? It's not a threat to any team unless that team has 6 Water/Flying types. No one goes "Watch out! Your team has a Pika weak!"

Read the rules, shedinjask. Swearing is not allowed on this forum, even if it's censored. You also need an attitude adjustment. "Look at me, I'm all high and mighty even though all I do is flame people and eventually my posts go completely off topic."

Yawn and Charm screws things over, especially Heracross. The only Hera that gets past a Charm switch in is Adamant CB, and who the hell uses Adamant CB.

lol wut? Everyone uses Adamant CB. It's the most common, most effective Heracross set. Jolly loses valuable Attack points that would fail to OKO or 2KO things it normally would with Adamant. ScarfCross is only effective as a lead and a revenge-killer, not the powerhouse that CBCross is.

Megahorn is for out-predicting. I might switch to Cressy to take the CC and get a Megahorn to the face instead.

And why on earth would you switch Cresselia into a Heracross? Cress is NOT a Hera counter.

Your Umbreon set may work for your team specifically, because maybe you use both Spikes and Stealth Rock, or maybe your team has one key Pokemon that needs to set up and Charm/Yawn buys you time. But it's not going to work for most teams in general. It may catch some people off guard that you're not using the standard Mean Look + BP set, but once they figure that out, they'll know you can't do anything to them damage wise. Maybe they'll send in their sleep absorber, maybe their Taunt DD Gyarados or Tyranitar, maybe they'll even stay in to take Umbreon out since sleep isn't as big of a deal as taking out a wall on a team.

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[shedinjask]

Read the rules, shedinjask. Swearing is not allowed on this forum, even if it's censored. You also need an attitude adjustment. "Look at me, I'm all high and mighty even though all I do is flame people and eventually my posts go completely off topic."

How was I flaming people, and how was I off-topic? I was defending and explaining a viable Umbreon set. I admit I might have some sort of eltism, but I never said anything like I was better than anyone else. If I did, that was not my intention and I apologize. As for the cursing, I'm used to it not being censored and if it is, I'm used to people being just fine with it censored. I won't do it again.

lol wut? Everyone uses Adamant CB. It's the most common, most effective Heracross set. Jolly loses valuable Attack points that would fail to OKO or 2KO things it normally would with Adamant. ScarfCross is only effective as a lead and a revenge-killer, not the powerhouse that CBCross is.

Not the last time I checked. Maybe we battle different people, but every CBCross I have run into so far uses Jolly. And usually, I see Scarf.

And why on earth would you switch Cresselia into a Heracross? Cress is NOT a Hera counter.

It is when you predict Close Combat. Cresselia is quite effective as a physical wall. Yeah, they can out-predict. It was just an example anyways.

Your Umbreon set may work for your team specifically, because maybe you use both Spikes and Stealth Rock, or maybe your team has one key Pokemon that needs to set up and Charm/Yawn buys you time. But it's not going to work for most teams in general. It may catch some people off guard that you're not using the standard Mean Look + BP set, but once they figure that out, they'll know you can't do anything to them damage wise. Maybe they'll send in their sleep absorber, maybe their Taunt DD Gyarados or Tyranitar, maybe they'll even stay in to take Umbreon out since sleep isn't as big of a deal as taking out a wall on a team.

People seem to have problems with it even when they know its set. Of course it works for my team, that's why I use it, and I don't use it for setup. It's mostly support. I was just saying that's what it could be used for. But it's not specific to my team, it's good with a lot of things. And like I said, DDTar/DDGyara cannot really do anything switching in unless it's on Protect. Yawn, they switch out, and they don't like Charm either. Wish means I get a free switch in to a counter, though it probably won't take any damage at all since they'd be using Taunt. Besides, they'll most likely Taunt me anyways, which gives Gengar (or any other TBolter) a free switch in and Forry (Gyro Ball ftw) a free switch in. Maybe I can't do anything to them damage wise, but damage is not a goal of this set. That part is left to the rest of the team. Umbreon is just here for support.

If you really feel like I should stop arguing an Umbreon set in an Umbreon thread, I'll stop posting about it and just go use it.