PC ~ The Broken Community

[pokejungle]

I'm sorry, but I have to make this thread. PC is changing at an ever increasing rate and I don't like what its shaping up as. The recent Kairi/a1337a issue spurred me on in this.

n00bs are now over-running PC like a plague, they're bad repping people and managing to hurt and anger vet PC members into leaving. I was just in a thread where someone gave bad reps to two peeps with NO GOOD REASON. There's absoluetly no excuse for it. I myself have gotten 3 bad reps in the same thread for NO REASON. It's frusterating, infurating, and time to do something about it.

I don't want PC to turn into a SPP in rule enforcement, but its time that mods become stricter than ever. There have been to many members leaving over hurt feelings and such, some of my friends included. I'm sick and tired of dealing with stupid people who do stupid things.

Those who think that "This is all fun and games, we shouldn't have strict rules!" are wrong. People think that until they get needlessly flamed or shunned because of something that wasn't there fault. People flamed me for like post count. This kind of thing is a direct assualt on our beliefs and values, and any forum that lets it go on isn't worth my time or yours.

As a plea to the general PC population (yes, believe it or not, we ARE a community.) we should try to be nicer to others and immediatly stick up for those individuals that get bullied. I don't want PC's reputation going down the drain because we have dumb people killing off the fun left here.

Consider this and please do something about it. We value the vets & members we have left, and don't want anymore to go.

~PokeJungle

[Eliana]

Listen, we WILL be fine. We dont have a choice. You have to keep faith in the remaining mods...
They WILL make things right again.

[pokejungle]

I know Arcanine will try his best at least, but unfortuneatly I don't know the other mods. this isn't a recent problem either, and lately its just gotten worse.

[Eliana]

I know, and I perfectly understand. But thats why those people were made mods. They make good choices.

[Shana]

I agree with PJ that PC has changed. We aren't as happy as we used to be. Great members are concidering leaving. I don't feel as happy as I used to on here. It isn't right. We need to do something about this, soon.

[BigBoss]

I think REP is a big reason in many people leaveing, n00bs give bad rep for no reason, I also think it's the flaming, and spam, and debates that cause it.

[Eliana]

And we will. I believe that the mods will do something...
...I think o.O

[Arcanine]

I know how you feel JP, and we are going to do something about the rep system (if turning it off will fix everything then we will lose the rep on PC).
And I also never liked stiff staff (the Mods will know this from my posts about stiff staff in the Lounge), we need staff members around PC. Not Robots that will go by the rules word for word. Right now I don't see any stiff staff members.
And you can't stop new members from joining. I bet the time you joined PC had topics about all the n00bs around PC. They won't always be n00bs, everyone was new here at one time or another.

[DragonTrainer]

Of course PC is gonna change, every forum changes, but wether or not it hanges for good or bad is up to you alone

[pokejungle]

Thanks a million Arcy!

To clarify ~

n00bs are A LOT DIFFERENT THAN NEWBIES! Newbies are awesome! They keep the community alive!

n00bs are people that know better, but act unrespectably and are stupid.

[Lily]

*rubs eyes*

I swear this thread was locked just a minute ago. o.o;

but...

Of COURSE (OBVIOUSLY) PC is going to change. The changes may be beneficial or a lot worse, such as people leaving and getting sick of it...but whether you like it or not, nothing ever stays the same! Every forum will undergo the same exact thing as it moves on, perhaps influencing the members badly.

Of course...yes, people should cooperate into helping overcome newbies, spam, rep problems, and perhaps disrespect? :/

<Oh...you compared it to SPP. How flattering>


~LP

[Ryoutarou]

All memebers were new at some point, so that can't be helped at all. But more and more threads like these, sure the bring up points that are wrong here, but it also gives people the mindset that things won't change here. About the rep thing, it never has had real base, even now only a few members give rep the way that you should. People though have to realize that these are just spammers most of the time doing it, they can turn their rep off if they want. Or they just ignore it, there is no reason to leave over it.

[Claire]

But im afraid theres nothing that can possibly done to stop n00bs, all that can happen is that they're banned asap. Making the rules more strcit wont get them banned any quicker, and will just make ppl more miserable because their freedom will be tied down..
Abby and sawah demoted themselves, but havent left -they demoted themselves just so that no staff politics would come into their relationship, which is perfectly understandable.

[Psychotic_Demon]

OF COURSE THE PC`S GONNA CHANGE!!! why wouldnt it? these changes may be bad or good, but theres little we can do about it.

(Well, unless your a mod, but thats another story!)

[BigBoss]

Wasen't this locked? anyway, We were all newbies at once, I quad posted once. But too solve alot of things, I say get rid of rep or only acess it to mods.

[pokejungle]

I know, but there were a lot of people that complained about the double teaming.
[Is guilty of that]


PC can become even more deviod of fun? 0.0 Seems like members seem to disagree on MSN.

Threads like these help, because they bring up issues that need attention. WE can overcome them if we work together. It won't be impossible.

[Arekkusu Rizu]

As Arcanine said, there is no possible way for us from stopping new memebrs from joining. Now we know that when a memebr joins in for the first time, he/she/it is a newbie. And as you say, newbies are different from noobs, but we all can't all go and start telling every newbie we see around that they should not spam/flame or do nothing bad. We can opnly ban thsoe members, but then agin, they join as new users again.
PC, is not crashing down or coming to an end. Even with the loss of some of the best staff memebrs, we are still strong enough. We still have senior staff who are always keeping PC together.

[pokejungle]

Next time I'll use quotes in my post so it isn't confusing.


The community needs to understand I'm not citing newbies for our problems. Not at all.

You all also need to understand that I'm not saying PC won't change, but rather that we can influence the way PC does change. right now its changing in a VERY negative way. WE HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE THAT.

That's what some of you don't get! WE HAVE POWER! The community is built upon the members and their actions. This is more about the spirit of PC than what the mods can physically change about the appearance. Every post we make reflects on PC, but not always in a good way. That's why we need to be nicer, and stick up for people. Not everyone has rock hard skin, and we're all different. We can't just expect other members to have the same likes/dislikes as us. It's what makes us a community. That's why its annoying to me to see that members are cutting down each other's ideas and posts. It's wrong.

"A house divided cannont stand"

If PC needs a Civil war, bring it on. Sure helped out the USA. Maybe this is just a tough time, and everything will turn out ok later. We need to do everything we can to make this a brighter, nicer place. Change starts with the members.

[Mana Lugia]

A few of the problems that I have seen recently:

1) Some people are worrying too much about reps. Heck, I don't post outside the Strats forum usually, (maybe 40 posts outside?) and so I don't have enough interaction for many reputations (And I doubt mature people like Frosty and Kairi would just give me Reps unless I do something spectacular.) My advice, rid of this reputation thing. Who needs it? What is it used for? "OMG I HAVE MORE REP THAN YOU HA HA I WIN"

2) It's not that we need stricter rules, but rather laxer rules. Yes, we'd be banning for blatant offenses, but do we really need to yell at someone for doubleposting? (Example, not sure if it's fact). I'm sure a nicely written post would work just as well. Also, people here are always having fun, so we could just try to get along better instead of pointing out every little mistake one makes (unless we want to be like my old english teacher >_>)

My 2 cents anyhow. BAck to the ARPG thread!

[BigBoss]

I want PC to be a better place like it used to be when I joined, (summer, but there was alot of spam) and I want, the higher members to go to all heights to help this place out, and I think one big solution is rep, and more mods and S-Mods since many have left, (cmon, Dakota is the only S-mod left) we really need to pull ourselves together.

[Kyosuke]

I think that the mood in PC has definatly changed since how it was at least six months ago, in some ways its bad because its not as fun in terms of the way not many people really had anything against anybody else, but it seems more and more people have grudges against each other. But sometimes it can be good to have some new members who follow the rules, and post on a regular basis. PC is maturing in the wrong way.

[Claire]

PJ, you're not really listening to what myself, Andy, and Reese are saying ^^;
We cant control who joins PC, only ban those who do bad after joining, which already happens.
I do agree that ppl are taking the rep system too seriously :\ if you guys find it that bad, then we can just disable it :\

[BigBoss]

Disable it! Rep is causing too many probs!

[pokejungle]

By the way, you may all thank Flaming Torchic (Nick) for giving me the idea to try and change PC.

Ashley:
You were the reason I put in the bit about the ppl who "It's just fun stuff here: =P

You have a point about not yelling at newbies for simple mistakes.

[ravenstorture]

I have been for disabling rep since all the problems starting popping up.

[*Chikorita*]

I agree. Rep is one of the major reasons that PC is becoming broken up. We need to disable it. =/

[DragonTrainer]

I've been for disabling rep ever since it was just tossed around like if it was nothing -_-

[Kayleigh]

Yeah, and plus as long as members like us are around PC won't die! We all have to help to make this a better place. We each have our own jobs to do -- Mods have responsibilities, and regular members should obey the rules. If we all do what we're supposed to do then the site won't get any worse.

Now, I do want to comment about something that has made PC seem a little less fun to visit, in my opinion. I think that the T-Dome's topics should be more limited. I've checked out some of the threads there, and they've surprised me. I honestly don't even like going in there now. I think that the farthest the members should be allowed to go would be talking about religion and politics. But now, I see too many other kinds of threads that are just inappropriate for a Pokemon forum. I won't get into them, but if everyone looked around the site they'd realize that the majority of members here are under 15, and a lot of them access the T-Dome. People just talk about too many things in there that they really don't even need to be talking about at their current ages, but blah. Whatever. That's just my opinion on that.

And the Mods have been discussing the rep issue lately, like Arcanine said, and hopefully things will get fixed. ^_^; But for now though, I don't think people should take the whole thing too seriously, as in leaving just because of a bad rep or something. If someone gives you one for a bad reason then you could just ask an S-Mod+ to check into the whole thing and see who gave the rep, then the person can be given a warning. That might work...

(cmon, Dakota is the only S-mod left)Hey, what color is my name, dude? Lol. *pokes*

And ohh, I agree about how some members are getting a bit too rude now. There aren't as many cheerful people here as there were when I first joined.

[Pokemon Master #1]

It's a hard time for PC.....A struggle.....But there is a solution,pray to the gods and godesses of PC (The moderators) :( .....

[BigBoss]

Sorry about that, Kayleigh, I forgot about you XD

I still say we need a big change.=/ I think getting rid of rep will do alot for us.

[ravenstorture]

Everyone notice that PC has been changing for the worse since all these problems happened with people using the reputation system for all the wrong reasons. I'm still clueless on why it has not been disabled yet. o.o

[pokejungle]

, you're not really listening to what myself, Andy, and Reese are saying ^^;
We cant control who joins PC, only ban those who do bad after joining, which already happens.
I do agree that ppl are taking the rep system too seriously if you guys find it that bad, then we can just disable it

I'M NOT SAYING NEWBIES ARE BAD. DON'T TWIST MY WORDS!

[Kayleigh]

We could do that if the whole thing became too big of a problem, but for now anyone who doesn't like the system can still disable it just to avoid getting bad reps. (If it bothers them that much...) I guess that I still wouldn't mind getting rid of it. I just wish that people would be more mature about the whole thing.

[euphoricFUTURE]

And ohh, I agree about how some members are getting a bit too rude now. There aren't as many cheerful people here as there were when I first joined.
Cheerful? I can do that!!! XD
Even though Ive had the worst day of my life, I can still be cheerful! *puts on a big smile*

I don't think PC is broken, its just fine! If it is broken, people like me can be the super glue to fix it! (bad comparison, I know, XD)

[Claire]

I didnt say you said that PJ O.o relax..read what i wrote again -.-

[BigBoss]

It is already too much of a problem, get rid of rep!

[DragonTrainer]

Lol, Kayleigh, people will neever be mature about rep again. It use to be when someone made a good post they'd get rep, and the system itself was very good, back then, but now it's just something that you do when a friend post, you just think "OMGTHATSMYFRIENDIWILLGIVEHIMREPPNG", and thusly you have people that can't even use proper grammar have 5K+ rep, and those who actually make thoughtful posts hardly get a slice of the cake

[ravenstorture]

I just wish that people would be more mature about the whole thing.
Well you said it yourself, most of PC's members are under the age of 15. You can't expect every single one of them being kids to act grown up and mature.

[Eliana]

Okay here goes *deep breath*
n00bs- People, look-
You can't live with them, you can't live without them. It just works like that. They will be anywhere. Fact of life.
Reputation- I have a feeling that rep will be disabled. Easy as that.

[*Chikorita*]

Lol, Kayleigh, people will neever be mature about rep again. It use to be when someone made a good post they'd get rep, and the system itself was very good, back then, but now it's just something that you do when a friend post, you just think "OMGTHATSMYFRIENDIWILLGIVEHIMREPPNG", and thusly you have people that can't even use proper grammar have 5K+ rep, and those who actually make thoughtful posts hardly get a slice of the cake


I agree. People will never use the rep system correctly again. So until it is removed, I am boycotting it. =\

[Claire]

I just wish everyone would calm down a bit with regards to rep :\ we all get bad rep now and then, but personally i dont care about it because i know its just a pointless spammer -i only pay attention to the nice comments left by ppl, which is the point of rep :\ and to be honest if you find it that annoying, you could just disable your own rep :\
But if you guys find rep that serious and are that passionate about it, then i guess overall disabling may happen

EDIT: DT that's totally right -these friend group reps are annoying sometimes -.-

[Miyu-chan]

I know that PC has made some drastic changes then it was from the past, (The 25 word limit, the reputation debate, etc.) But I will not give up trying to make this community better and fullfilling my duty as a moderator.

I swear, that I will do the best as I can to make this community a better place... (Even if it means getting a 2.0 xD; (J/K) )

Ganbatte ne, Minna-san!!!! xD

[ravenstorture]

Not everyone is going to have that same mindset, Claire, and some people take is personally whenever they recieve a bad comment left by an unknown member and they can not just shut it out like you can. They end up feeling bad thinking they did something wrong or that they do not fit in.

[TRIFORCE89]

I've never really had a rep issue. If anything I'm getting good rep for stupid and useless things. But if it is causing a problem for others (and lots of others), then by all means do whatever needs to be done.

I agree with Kayleigh about the T-Dome. "Forum for mature discussions" Being mature doesn't mean just talking about sex. It should be that you're able to talk about a variety of important and/or serious issues confidently (okay, that's an odd word for it...but you know what I mean).


You guys should do whatever you feel will be beneficial for the forums.

[Ryoutarou]

I don't think it needs to go at all, notice the people saying it should go. They all have sueper high rep, most of them, and they all got theirs through some "rep wars" thing. Now they see it was just a cheap thrill getting it that way, there are still members that rep the correct way.

Most people weren't complaing about this, untill today I never saw people with a huge amount of bad rep.

[Arekkusu Rizu]

PC has changed alot, I can agree on that. But in that changing, some of it has been for the better. New forums, and more. All the mods on PC try to keep everything on their forums perfect, and with no spamers or flamers, but some of us can't due to time zones. So we may not be here when you need us. But some of us usually ahve differently, so we can. I remember that when i joined on January, I was only here for the fanfiction, which I came from another site. If it wasn't for it, i would have never known PC or anything.
From what I can say, nothing much has really changed except for the staff part. The forums are mostly of the same, with some additions.
As for the rep problem, if there is so many troubles with it. Just disable it yourself from getting it. Now if this goes aroudn all the forum, and everybody gets bad reps, then it needs to be turned off. It will eb a loss of a good system, but it will be for the better.

[Claire]

I suppose im just surprised that ppl take bad comments from spammers so seriously and personally :\

[ravenstorture]

I don't think it needs to go at all, notice the people saying it should go. They all have sueper high rep, most of them, and they all got theirs through some "rep wars" thing. Now they see it was just a cheap thrill getting it that way, there are still members that rep the correct way.

Nice way of pointing me out, indirectly even thoug your assumption is incorrect.

Most people weren't complaing about this, untill today I never saw people with a huge amount of bad rep.Well where have you been for the past few weeks?

Edit: To Claire. Maybe some people take it so personally because they get really mean comments from people. Like seriously viscious.

[Kelsey]

I agree with Claire, I swear, I see one of these threads at least every month. Although you may have a few good points, PJ, PC is going to change, there's no use in it staying the same forever, just imagine how boring it would be. That means no new forums would be added, no new mods, no new members, no nothing. Just a deserted wasteland of old posts and polls. So, let's all just try and do our best to cope with changes, instead of tring so hard to hold back. No further comments your honor. XD

~Kelsey

[DragonTrainer]

And another thing - I honestly beleive the T-Dome was a total flop, this is surely not what Dakota and frostweaver intended it to be, and knowing frostweaver, I'm sure he's disgusted with how it is, I remember how ecstatic he was about it finally becoming possible, but the way we took it for granted and twisted it up is just wrong and disgusting =/

[Ryoutarou]

[/font][/color]

[font=Arial][color=black]Nice way of pointing me out, indirectly even thoug your assumption is incorrect.


Well where have you been for the past few weeks? Oh, don't think so high or yourself, I'm allowed to express my views as are you. The bad repping, people need to realize that these were just spammers doing it, only time I ever think about a bad rep is when a respected and well known members gives it to me.

[Miyu-chan]

I know think that reputation is a whole waste of time... I use it for people who I adore their posts. I use it maturly. If this reputation is discourging for people to join, we should abolish the reputation system for the good of PC.

[pokejungle]

Now, I do want to comment about something that has made PC seem a little less fun to visit, in my opinion. I think that the T-Dome's topics should be more limited. I've checked out some of the threads there, and they've surprised me. I honestly don't even like going in there now. I think that the farthest the members should be allowed to go would be talking about religion and politics. But now, I see too many other kinds of threads that are just inappropriate for a Pokemon forum. I won't get into them, but if everyone looked around the site they'd realize that the majority of members here are under 15, and a lot of them access the T-Dome. People just talk about too many things in there that they really don't even need to be talking about at their current ages, but blah. Whatever. That's just my opinion on that.

Perfect. TDome is horrible.



Right now, Rep isn't the problem, but it is part of this. Rep right now is being used as what's called a "Scapegoat" Sure its not being used right, but WHO'S not using it right? The blame is shifted back upon PC members, where it always will stay. Rep should be turned off because of inappropriate use, but that's not a solution to the current problem.

Sorry DF, I just took a chill pill. I'm better now. I just care deeply about PC and want it to remain what it always has been: a great forum!

[DragonTrainer]

dude, that sig is priceless lol lol lol XD

hehe -UN

Indeed. &lt;3

Mooo

&gt;_&gt;;

Thats funny XD!!!!

XD i like ur sig

And you sit here and tell me rep should stay? If this is just mine, imagine everyone else's rep's -_-

[ravenstorture]

Yet, what most of the people who are for the rep system do not realize is that people take things more and less personal then you do. Most of you say, just ignore it, it is just spam. Well people get seriously viscious comments calling them the f-word and such and leaving personal comments on there. Some people aren't has tough skinned as others.

[Ryoutarou]

Perfect. TDome is horrible.



Right now, Rep isn't the problem, but it is part of this. Rep right now is being used as what's called a "Scapegoat" Sure its not being used right, but WHO'S not using it right? The blame is shifted back upon PC members, where it always will stay. Rep should be turned off because of inappropriate use, but that's not a solution to the current problem.

Sorry DF, I just took a chill pill. I'm better now. I just care deeply about PC and want it to remain what it always has been: a great forum! So in the end you're just saying, "Punish the system for the acts of a few members". A lot of members still like rep.

[Claire]

With regards the T-Dome, i enjoy the political and other debates, but the sex threads are really disturbing..especially when they're filled with posts from ppl under the legal age >.> I'd be for the sex threads being closed ^^

[Kelsey]

And it will remain a great forum. Can't you see? PC has always been great, just because of a few troublesome members hanging around, doesn't mean PC has gone up the wall or anything. Just stop and look around, people are still here, many awsome members are still here, IMO, PC is going to change for the better, and when it does, I'll be right there to stand by it. ^_~

~Kelsey

[DragonTrainer]

"A lot of members still like rep."

And such members are the ones who spammed each other's rep systems and would *hate* to see their overwhelming amount of green little blocks go, maybe not all, but i assure you a lot

[pokejungle]

Sex threads should be banned. They don't have a place in a pokemon community.



Yes, the whole should have to pay for it. It's too bad that it had to be that way.

[Lightning]

Omg wow! A Lightning post! I thought she was dead!

Anyway…
I'm sorry, but I have to make this thread. PC is changing at an ever increasing rate and I don't like what its shaping up as. The recent Kairi/a1337a issue spurred me on in this. Everything changes… deal with it. It would be unnatural if a society like this one didn’t change. Change is inevitable and just because you don’t like it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad thing. n00bs are now over-running PC like a plague, they're bad repping people and managing to hurt and anger vet PC members into leaving. I was just in a thread where someone gave bad reps to two peeps with NO GOOD REASON. There's absoluetly no excuse for it. I myself have gotten 3 bad reps in the same thread for NO REASON. It's frusterating, infurating, and time to do something about it.
Veteran members leaving? So? I think I’m considered a “vet,” right? I didn’t leave because of n00bs. The one’s who are leaving having their own reasons. Newbies don’t just join to randomly give out bad rep. You’re making too big a generalization here. If you hate getting bad rep so much, just turn it off. There’s an option for it under your Control Panel. I was a newbie once. You were a newbie once. EVERYONE was a newbie once. Just because you don’t like some doesn’t mean they’re all terrible and stupid. If you look at the situation so negatively, of COURSE it’ll seem like newbies are a plague.
I don't want PC to turn into a SPP in rule enforcement, but its time that mods become stricter than ever. There have been to many members leaving over hurt feelings and such, some of my friends included. I'm sick and tired of dealing with stupid people who do stupid things.
I can’t even remember now, but were you part of PC back in the beginning? That was fun. Seriously, I think that’s quite possibly the most fun I ever had here. And that was when we had about 5 active moderators. We had nothing like the T-Dome – that stuff would go in Other Chat. Why? People weren’t so spazzy all the time. When things seemed a little tense, the thread wouldn’t be closed automatically, it would just be told to calm down. If flaming arose, it would be dealt with. I do NOT want to become incredibly strict. That just kills the fun for everyone. By the way, PC is not SPP. We never were and never will be. Nor are we any other forum. We’re just PC. If someone is harassing, thus resulting in hurt feelings, then you go to a staff member about it. If you’d rather leave over it, then so be it. That’s their decision. Everyone is to be respected here (newbies included). If you don’t want to deal with stupid people, then stop talking to people. Truth be told, many in this world are what you would consider “stupid” – you’ve gotta learn to deal with it sometime, so why not now?
Those who think that "This is all fun and games, we shouldn't have strict rules!" are wrong. People think that until they get needlessly flamed or shunned because of something that wasn't there fault. People flamed me for like post count. This kind of thing is a direct assualt on our beliefs and values, and any forum that lets it go on isn't worth my time or yours.
When you’ve been flamed, you GO TO A MODERATOR. I can’t stress that enough. They’re there to help you, not just sit there with their fancy names. Like I said, one of our rules is that everyone must respect everyone else. That means whoever flames you is breaking a rule. Therefore, the right punishment needs to be used. Honestly, if you don’t tell the staff, they can’t make it better. (On that note – it’s weird writing “they” instead of “we” x3;;)
As a plea to the general PC population (yes, believe it or not, we ARE a community.) we should try to be nicer to others and immediatly stick up for those individuals that get bullied. I don't want PC's reputation going down the drain because we have dumb people killing off the fun left here.
If someone is being bullied, again, go to a moderator. Every forum has “dumb people,” but by talking about people in such a manner, you’re contradicting yourself. First you say people shouldn’t be flamed or shunned, yet you turn right around and say that newbies and people whom you don’t view as intelligent as yourself don’t belong here? Maybe you should step back and re-evaluate what you stand for here.
Consider this and please do something about it. We value the vets & members we have left, and don't want anymore to go.
There will always be new members to fill the void. Maybe not as well, or not in the same way, but there will always be people. As for vets… can people please stop using that word? “We” want to be remembered for what we’ve done, not because we joined at a certain time. -_-
I know Arcanine will try his best at least, but unfortuneatly I don't know the other mods. this isn't a recent problem either, and lately its just gotten worse.
Andy isn’t the only mod, you know. So yeah, maybe we’re a little thin up at the top right now, but there are plenty of mods to cover for the moment. The mods CAN be trusted. We higher staff, although some of us aren't up in that rank anymore, hand picked almost all of them, after all. I can speak for us when I say we tried to make the best decisions for the community. Maybe you think it’s gotten worse, but that may not be the case to everyone else. After all, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure, as they say.
I agree with PJ that PC has changed. We aren't as happy as we used to be. Great members are concidering leaving. I don't feel as happy as I used to on here. It isn't right. We need to do something about this, soon.
Maybe YOU aren’t as happy as you used to be, but some people are. Some may even be happier with PC the way it is. It’s personal opinion coming into play here. If you don’t feel as happy, try to fix it. Do what you’ve always done, or try to get more involved in things you enjoy. Don’t make the rest of PC conform for you. If you’re that upset, conform to them. -_-;
I think REP is a big reason in many people leaveing, n00bs give bad rep for no reason, I also think it's the flaming, and spam, and debates that cause it.
Then turn off your rep. Simple as that~
And I also never liked stiff staff (the Mods will know this from my posts about stiff staff in the Lounge), we need staff members around PC. Not Robots that will go by the rules word for word. Right now I don't see any stiff staff members.
And you can't stop new members from joining. I bet the time you joined PC had topics about all the n00bs around PC. They won't always be n00bs, everyone was new here at one time or another.
You used to be an incredibly stiff staff member. ^_^; That was way back when I disagreed with almost everything you said… like once when you gave a member 2 warnings for one post (I think double posting and not putting 10 words. XD) Heh, but now you’re good. We don’t want really “stiff” moderators, but you don’t want to be too loose, either. You’ll get another Jess situation.

As for your second point, bravo~
But im afraid theres nothing that can possibly done to stop n00bs, all that can happen is that they're banned asap. Making the rules more strcit wont get them banned any quicker, and will just make ppl more miserable because their freedom will be tied down..
Abby and sawah demoted themselves, but havent left -they demoted themselves just so that no staff politics would come into their relationship, which is perfectly understandable.
I agree… even if the rules were followed word for word and everything, it’s not like things will immediately be better. If anything, it’ll likely get worse. People will stop recommending us to their friends and it would just be… annoying. People tend to stick around with PC because we’re looser than most other places and we’re tolerant of everyone. Let’s try to keep it that way, shall we?

As for Abby and Sawah, that’s their decision, so I respect it.
The community needs to understand I'm not citing newbies for our problems. Not at all.
It sure seemed like you were. Your post, the foundation of this thread, made a direct reference to newbies. Therefore, many people responded to that accordingly. n00bs are still newbies. The terms are interchangeable, in my eyes.
You all also need to understand that I'm not saying PC won't change, but rather that we can influence the way PC does change. right now its changing in a VERY negative way. WE HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE THAT.
Again, that’s YOUR opinion. Have you stopped to think that maybe some people LIKE the way it’s turning out? Try to think about that before turning that into a statement. Not everyone has the exact same opinion as you. That’s what makes everyone different. Now, I completely respect what you’re doing here. The best way to make PC the way you like it is to think of it that way. If you think “okay, I’m going to get on and have fun at PC!” then you most likely will. On the other hand, if you think about it negatively, then you won’t have much fun at all and you’ll think about it, well, this way. Negativity spawns these types of threads.
That's what some of you don't get! WE HAVE POWER! The community is built upon the members and their actions. This is more about the spirit of PC than what the mods can physically change about the appearance. Every post we make reflects on PC, but not always in a good way. That's why we need to be nicer, and stick up for people. Not everyone has rock hard skin, and we're all different. We can't just expect other members to have the same likes/dislikes as us. It's what makes us a community. That's why its annoying to me to see that members are cutting down each other's ideas and posts. It's wrong. You just said what I covered in my last response, so I’ll take this moment to agree with you here. Everyone has the power to change PC. Just standing around complaining about how bad it is won’t do ANYTHING. You have to go out there, create threads, and post how you always have. Encourage everyone to take part in discussion and bring everyone together as a community. PC will never be the way it was back in late 2002, but you can sure try! Back then, everyone knew everyone else. Now it’s much harder to keep that spirit going, since there are so many members, but the more you include and accept everyone else, the better. It’s okay to disagree – everyone does and that, like change, is positively unavoidable in life. Everyone is similar, though. We’re all human and we feel the same emotions. Sympathize with that and try to befriend everyone you can. Make this a community again, where everyone is respected and everyone has fun.
If PC needs a Civil war, bring it on. Sure helped out the USA. Maybe this is just a tough time, and everything will turn out ok later. We need to do everything we can to make this a brighter, nicer place. Change starts with the members.
Let’s… keep war out of this, shall we? ~_^ Peaceful resolutions are always the best, in my books.

Okay, jeez. Too many people are replying to this, so I’m just gonna post this now and quote more stuff later. Ack. x_x;

[Ryoutarou]

Sex threads should be banned. They don't have a place in a pokemon community.



Yes, the whole should have to pay for it. It's too bad that it had to be that way.That would work in a real life sense, but here staff can root out the members that do it. T-Dome, I don't like it the way it is, but it's mature talk. So it can stay the way it is, even though most of the threads are all about sex and very little political talk anymore.

[Miyu-chan]

With regards the T-Dome, i enjoy the political and other debates, but the sex threads are really disturbing..especially when they're filled with posts from ppl under the legal age >.> I'd be for the sex threads being closed ^^
T-dome for that might be a bit disturbing. Imagine a 12 year old suddenly saying something at the dinner table with his/her's parents, and they find out that they learned it at PC, and the whole thing might result in a lawsuit and PC being closed forever.

I say that we make the T-dome part more strict, and if you really feel the need to, bring the age limit to 18, since 18 year old's actions are held responsible only by themselves.

But that's what I think. =]

[Ryoutarou]

T-dome for that might be a bit disturbing. Imagine a 12 year old suddenly saying something at the dinner table with his/her's parents, and they find out that they learned it at PC, and the whole thing might result in a lawsuit and PC being closed forever.=] That won't ever happen, why? Because you HAVE TO ASK to be able to see T-Dome. The gae limit has a problem we delt with a long while back, people can change their age. Also, what's to say that a 18 year old is mature? I know plenty around here that are no where near how they should act.

[Claire]

I do think some ppl are going a bit crazy :\
Rep is just a system to enjoy others good rep comments about yourself. Being given bad rep by spammers shouldnt bother ppl, and giving pointless rep to friends does nothing for you (your rep level doesnt affect who does and does not like you).
Sure there are things about the t-dome, but thats one small section so its not harming PC as a whole..
I also find it strange the way that ppl who complain about rep most of the time havent disabled their own rep >.>

One main problem is members taking things too seriously and personally -the forum's a place to come and relax, not a place to come and be judged, so just relax more ^^; everything said and done isnt a personal attack ^^;

[pokejungle]

Rooting out members who abuse the system? Over half would have rep system disable than! -_- The other half wouldn't even use it =(


We shouldn't need a place to talk about sex at PC. Period. I'm sure there's other forums where you can take your horny posting.

[euphoricFUTURE]

That won't ever happen, why? Because you HAVE TO ASK to be able to see T-Dome.
Okay Jorge, deep breaths... In... out... XD
I personally dont go to the T-dome, but I hear stories, XD
I dont see the need in disabling the rep. Only a couple of members are complaining, and that dont mean diddley-squat... (I always wanted to use that word, XD)

[Kayleigh]

Cheerful? I can do that!!! XD
Even though Ive had the worst day of my life, I can still be cheerful! *puts on a big smile*

I don't think PC is broken, its just fine! If it is broken, people like me can be the super glue to fix it! (bad comparison, I know, XD)Ah, sorry to hear that... But, you're a good example of how people don't have to be rude to everyone else even when they are having a bad day. That's a good thing!

Lol, Kayleigh, people will neever be mature about rep again. It use to be when someone made a good post they'd get rep, and the system itself was very good, back then, but now it's just something that you do when a friend post, you just think "OMGTHATSMYFRIENDIWILLGIVEHIMREPPNG", and thusly you have people that can't even use proper grammar have 5K+ rep, and those who actually make thoughtful posts hardly get a slice of the cakeYeah, I noticed that... I've been here over a year now, but I've seen people that have only been here a week with more reputation points than me, lol. o_o; Not like I'm jealous or I even deserve more than them, but it's just kind of the point of how once someone befriends someone else that uses the rep system in the wrong way, they kind of go over-board with it... Too many people give reps to others for the wrong reasons.

Well you said it yourself, most of PC's members are under the age of 15. You can't expect every single one of them being kids to act grown up and mature.I'm not talking about the kind of maturity like, 'Hey, I'm old and really smart and calm and blah blah blah!' Younger people can be mature in the way of being friendly to everyone. You don't have to be too smart or old to know that. I've seen 18 year-olds act ruder than my four year-old neighbor, and yes, when they do that I'll call them immature because that's what they are. If they're doing it for wrong reasons then I wouldn't think they were acting their ages. Even though younger children still have the tendency to act more immature, they also should know how to be friendly.

So, if they'd [including the older people] do that then there wouldn't be a problem.

[Ryoutarou]

Rooting out members who abuse the system? Over half would have rep system disable than! -_- The other half wouldn't even use it =(


We shouldn't need a place to talk about sex at PC. Period. I'm sure there's other forums where you can take your horny posting. You warn/ban thoes members then.

T-Dome was made because people thought they needed a place for "mature" talk. Even though I don't agree with half the post in there, it was a general request thing.

[DragonTrainer]

"I also find it strange the way that ppl who complain about rep most of the time havent disabled their own rep >.>"

Does it really make a difference if we fight against rep and don't have it disabled, does it truly make us look like total hypocrites?

[Miyu-chan]

That won't ever happen, why? Because you HAVE TO ASK to be able to see T-Dome. The gae limit has a problem we delt with a long while back, people can change their age. Also, what's to say that a 18 year old is mature? I know plenty around here that are no where near how they should act.Not all people are honest online. If I wasn't able to see T-dome, I *might* re-register, and I'll just lye about my age. It's better to be safe than sorry.

And I'm just saying that we should bring the age limit up to 18 because then we are no longer *held responsible* for the results/consiquensis.

And I'm not bashing all 12 years ols people... >"<

[Ryoutarou]

Not all people are honest online. If I wasn't able to see T-dome, I *might* re-register, and I'll just lye about my age. It's better to be safe than sorry.

And I'm just saying that we should bring the age limit up to 18 because then we are no longer *held responsible* for the results/consiquensis.

And I'm not bashing all 12 years ols people... >"< Like you said though, not all people are honest about their age. Anyone could change their age.

[Claire]

When ppl are passionately against something, and yet continue to have it, it does unfortunately DT, IMO anywayz
Again, if ppl are really taking things done by spammers to heart that much, then rep may as well be disabled..it just seems crazy to take it that seriously and personally..

About T-Dome, the age could be 18, and to stop any legal problems, the admin/whoever can ask for their full consent and guarantee of their age -a basically written contract gives PC no problems ^^ or we could just close any sex threads..

[^^NICK^^ v.3.0]

Straight to the point. You people take things so melodramatically serious. This is a message board. If you don’t like something, ignore it or leave. It’s the internet. GO out and get a real LIFE!! Most of this stuff isn’t even that serious, seriously. You guys, as much as I hate to say it, really get on my nerves, and whine way too much, and I’m a whiner myself, so that’s pretty bad. I have been holding in most of my feelings about this place since I joined, and I can’t anymore. I may not have any good reasons to you all, but whatever. New people, yes some of them are annoying, some are not. A lot of “veterans” are annoying. That’s why I’m mad right now, and my thoughts are all jumbled. But, you’re always gonna find things annoying in life, and I can’t imagine how some of you will handle it when you step out into the real world. Okay, now for the reps. If you don’t like reps, just don’t use them. They serve no really important purpose. All these posts about how reps are killing you or something, oh my GOD they annoy me so much. You all get the point. I’m kinda tired of this place. Seems like the same stuff repeats itself so much, and I have lots of better things to do. If I wanna add something I’ll post it later, but for right now, this is it. Honestly, a lot of you are annoying, and I’m sure you probably feel the same about me, and I don’t care right now. AND if you’re someone who doesn’t like me, you’ll be happy, and leaving, bye.

And no, I’m not killing myself, it was a joke.

[pokejungle]

I'm glad there's a lot of interest in my thread, but the point wasn't to bicker between ourselves, but rather to make positive changer here.

Please, just be nice to everyone, it really does make a diference, and makes others happy. Be kind, be considerate, be proud.

[Kayleigh]

Well, I don't think that it would be necessary to raise the age limit if we didn't allow some of the topics in there. Anyone who has access to the T-Dome probably knows which ones I'm talking about. If not, then just go look and ask yourself: 'Should a 12 year-old be reading about that yet?' O_o I've seen some that made me think that!

[DragonTrainer]

Thing's off, happy? -_____________-

"GO out and get a real LIFE!!"

I do have a real life, and a good one, kthxbai

[Ryoutarou]

When ppl are passionately against something, and yet continue to have it, it does unfortunately DT, IMO anywayz
Again, if ppl are really taking things done by spammers to heart that much, then rep may as well be disabled..it just seems crazy to take it that seriously and personally.. Very well said, as I said. As I said today, people need to realize this is only a message board. The rep thing is as simple as this" Turn it off. No one will bother you like that with bad rep.

[ravenstorture]

Like you said though, not all people are honest about their age. Anyone could change their age.
But I see where she is going with this. If the age limit is 18 then it would be fine because if you lied about your age and you end up getting in trouble by your parents and they try to force the blame on PC, then the staff could just show that the person lied about their age and therefore, Pc is in the clear. I hope that makes sense a bit. Atleast that is how I understood what she was tryign to say.

[Ryoutarou]

Just turn the rep off yourself if you don't like it. I don't see Piro or any of the other high reppers turning thier's off.

[^^NICK^^ v.3.0]

Thing's off, happy? -_____________-

"GO out and get a real LIFE!!"

I do have a real life, and a good one, kthxbai


Oh, well, duh, maybe I wasn't referring to you, only people you keep complaining. k*obscenelyimmaturecusswordeditedout*youbai

[Claire]

*hugs DT* yesh, that does make me happier XD

Again, with T-Dome, i just think sex threads should be banned, because i dont think 18 should be the age. Sex threads arent at all important, but political debates can be enjoyed by ppl younger than 18. I think 13 is a little young, and maybe it should be 15, but i think 18 would be really cutting a lot of ppl out. Close the sex threads is my opinion ^^

[Ryoutarou]

*hugs DT* yesh, that does make me happier XD

Again, with T-Dome, i just think sex threads should be banned, because i dont think 18 should be the age. Sex threads arent at all important, but political debates can be enjoyed by ppl younger than 18. I think 13 is a little young, and maybe it should be 15, but i think 18 would be really cutting a lot of ppl out. Close the sex threads is my opinion ^^A mature sex thread would be ok-ish...but the type of sex threads in there are just, ahh.
Also everyone in that area seems so one sided v v;

[DragonTrainer]

Claire, glad I made you happy =P

It's not basically just the sex threads, but the kind of crap they turned it into, they could be something nice and mature to discuss, but the way it's turning out, eh

[Kayleigh]

I do have a real life, and a good one, kthxbaiOh, well, duh, maybe I wasn't referring to you, only people you keep complaining. k****youbaiGuys, break it up right now or I'll close this thread. That kind of stuff right there is one of the main reasons why so many people are complaining now.

[Claire]

I just dont think there should be sex threads, given its PG13, and a lot of ppl go and act really childish >.>
But the other debates are great ^^ and very informational ^^

[pokejungle]

Close the sex threads is my opinion ^^

She's right.

obviously since there's so much discussion, PC has a lot to change before it gets happy again. @_@

[^^NICK^^ v.3.0]

Complain, complain, who cares. That's all you guys do you. This isn't church, it isn;t school, stop trying to act holier than thou, because you aren't. And don't close this becuse of me, because it wouldn't be fair, I should be the one to be punished if anyone, but I can't hold in my feelings. Now, complain about that.

[ravenstorture]

I don't see Piro or any of the other high reppers turning thier's off.
I'm not having major problems with getting mean rep comments. I have gotten a few, but I don't give it a second thought. I am sticking up for the people who are getting cussed out in their comments and who don't have the same mindeset as we do. Simple as that, blue.

[Claire]

PJ..i think ur getting a bit dramatic :\ Closing the sex threads in T-Dome will make things nicer, but wont suddenly cause a huge change in PC..
I enjoy PC, which is why i come here so often, so i dont think it needs "dramatic changes" etc...

[BigBoss]

Just turn the rep off yourself if you don't like it. I don't see Piro or any of the other high reppers turning thier's off.
N00bs will still give bad rep to innocent newbies. I still can't see why rep is still here. Look, back in the summer, rep was rarely given. everybody but high members had 1 block. around august someone asked, "why when I put my mouse on that green block it says I am on a obvious road, not too far from victory?" When sombody said it's rep, people got curious and started using it. now, recently things got spammy and members with 2 posts have 10 blocks of rep, etc. and now many are using it as spam. I still stick with my opinion. I turned it off, because I am 100% against it now.

[euphoricFUTURE]

The only reason PC is in such an uproar right now is because of this thread. I would suggest closing it before it gets out of hand, but I could be wrong ^^;;
Shouldnt we just leave this in the hands of the staff now, instead of having this huge debate? ^^;;

[Ryoutarou]

She's right.

obviously since there's so much discussion, PC has a lot to change before it gets happy again. @_@ If you don't like it you can ask to have it taken away, simple as that. T-Dome use to be fun, it had smart discussion, now it's just full of sex threads.

To dark link: Stop confusing nice people who deserve good rep with spamers.

[pokejungle]

The only reason PC is in such an uproar right now is because of this thread. I would suggest closing it before it gets out of hand, but I could be wrong ^^;;

You're a prime example of why I made this thread. Members are trying to shove the problems of PC under a rug. We need to get the problems out, not just put them in a place where nobody sees them.

[^^NICK^^ v.3.0]

Exactly. I think PC should just talk abotu what's bugging them instead of acting so conservative all the time like a group of nuns.

[Claire]

It's not "full" of sex threads ^^; *refers to the first page of t-dome* theres 3/20 sex threads, so its only one or two, which could just be closed :\

[Ryoutarou]

You're a prime example of why I made this thread. Members are trying to shove the problems of PC under a rug. We need to get the problems out, not just put them in a place where nobody sees them. There wasn't a problem to begin with, all people had to do was turn their on rep off, thats why that choice is in your CP.

[BigBoss]

If you don't like it you can ask to have it taken away, simple as that. T-Dome use to be fun, it had smart discussion, now it's just full of sex threads.

To dark link: Stop confusing nice people who deserve good rep with sapmers.
What are sapmers? And I was saying in the summer rep did not matter at all, and that was back when PC was a fun place.

[Claire]

PJ and Nick, you really are being a bit too dramatic :\
The only problems that have come up is:
1. Rep (there are mixed views, so you cant just decide to turn it off, which you yourselves can just turn off your personal rep)
2. T-Dome (referring to only about 3 threads, which arent a big deal but can be closed)
So there are no huge problems with PC..

[Ryoutarou]

It's not "full" of sex threads ^^; *refers to the first page of t-dome* theres 3/20 sex threads, so its only one or two, which could just be closed :\Ya, I overexaggerated there ^ ^; but what I meant was almost anything beside a sex thread gets pushed aside really easy.

DL: you know what I meant, there is no reason to have a system wide shut down of rep. Just turn it off yourself if you don't like it.

[ravenstorture]

I agree with Pokejungle's statement. Some people are trying to hide that PC has any problems and thus, try and get threads closed and people to stop talking because they want to act like there aren't problems and soon enough they are going to get more out of hand than they already are. Legendary Pokemaster, there have been more threads about these issues, but they get closed, and like a chain reaction, a new one pops up. They aren't going to stop until they get solved.

[pokejungle]

REP ISN'T THE MAIN ISSUE HERE!!

PC isn't as fun as it used to be, do mainly to people who aren't being considerate! When I joined it was A TON better, and the members were nice to each other, there were no "Leaving threads" because someone had hurt there feelings.

[^^NICK^^ v.3.0]

I'm really on something so different. I don;t like how everytime something minor occurs, people whine and stuff about it, which might seem like what I'm now, but I've whitnessed this so much since 2003, it's not even funny. Please don't rip me for still posting after I said I was leaving, but I didn't get all of my points out. I don't like how cheesy this place can be at times. And you all try to close threads so people can't discuss their problems. Even schools allow you to do that, and when you try to be more strict than the school, you have a problem. But, whatever, agree or agree to disagree.

[Claire]

1. People hurting eachother via PM arent controllable by the higher staff
2. PC cannot control who joins, only ban those that disrupt the place
3. Technically there are no leaving threads now since they're not allowed :P
..what other issues are there then?

[euphoricFUTURE]

PJ and Nick, you really are being a bit too dramatic :\
The only problems that have come up is:
1. Rep (there are mixed views, so you cant just decide to turn it off, which you yourselves can just turn off your personal rep)
2. T-Dome (referring to only about 3 threads, which arent a big deal but can be closed)
So there are no huge problems with PC..
Thats what I was thinking. We've identified the problem, and we dont need any more discussion on it. I think this isnt helping PC one bit....

[^^NICK^^ v.3.0]

And no, PiroMunkie, this isn't the most controversial day, obviously you, you here when Cas was.

[Ryoutarou]

And no, PiroMunkie, this isn't the most controversial day, obviously you, you here when Cas was. Thats what this reminds me of, he did A LOT of these in summer, this is calm compared to back then. The seasons don't change anything. You have the mentality that PC is a bad place so it's going to be like that if you think it.

[pokejungle]

PC isn't that fun anymore. That's the root of the problem. The causes are what we need to fix. DF, yes, those are some of the problems, but PC is having a slow death in my opinion. The new members aren't staying, the old members are leaving, and the actual members aren't being all that nice to each other.

PC isn't the place it used to be. It's slow, spamy, and mean. PC is turning off new members because there are so many members that hurt others unchecked. The old PC wasn't like that.

[euphoricFUTURE]

Where do you get this stuff PJ? It's isnt that bad. PC is still perfectly fine, and just because a few people have some problems with each other, doesnt mean anything. This isnt that big of a dal. YOU'RE TAKING IT TOO SERIOUSLY!!

[Ryoutarou]

PC isn't that fun anymore. That's the root of the problem. The causes are what we need to fix. DF, yes, those are some of the problems, but PC is having a slow death in my opinion. The new members aren't staying, the old members are leaving, and the actual members aren't being all that nice to each other.

PC isn't the place it used to be. It's slow, spamy, and mean. PC is turning off new members because there are so many members that hurt others unchecked. The old PC wasn't like that. The old pc was diffrent, because it had fewer members, now the place is much bigger so it needs to change.

[Claire]

And what causes have you come up with?
1. For the final time, we cannot control who joins PC, only ban those who act badly
2. All the members i know are staying, so i dont know who you mean by "the old members are leaving", besides PC is getting new members continually
Just because ppl have more work/things going on in their life doesnt mean that we should force them to stay..you cant control if ppl want to leave..

Everyone should already be being nice to everyone, so theres no need to tell everyone to be nice :\

[NiNGi]

I agree that PC has indeed changed, and its starting to turn up pretty bad, even though its not drammatically bad yet.

1st - In the opinion of this humble ninja here, I would advise admins to consider the ban of rep - i mean, what is the point of rep as I already said?? Some people (mostly childish people) can get emotionally hurt by rep, which may cause them to leave..... is that what we want? People who REALLY enjoy rep as it is should also consider that the inappropriate use of it is making people uncomfortable.... stuff like "you see? I have more rep than you! I'm more popular than you!!" can really hurt some people, and it also brings a pointless competitiveness on the whole PC's environment....
I believe that wanting to leave rep on could be considered as a selfish tought: I mean, Can't you try and get used not to have rep for the benefits of other users who are more sensitive than you?? If you can't give up rep only because you seem to like to read the comments people leave, then you are not considering that people can get hurt by this rep...

2nd - PC is becoming, regardless of rep, full of people looking for popularity instead of a fun place.... some people would just do anything to be a mod, and some people just want to post everywhere for the sake of being "popular"..... i mean, this is sad... i have seen some members who are really becoming hopeless... there are also some other problems in here, but I don't feel like listing them right now :\

[PGN]

1. People hurting eachother via PM arent controllable by the higher staff
Actually, there is a vB hack somewhere that let's Admins read users PMs and who sent them, and people can also be banned from using the PM system

2. PC cannot control who joins, only ban those that disrupt the place
No, they can set it so people with a certain IP or E-mail address can't join (aka IP Banning and E-Mail Banning)

3. Technically there are no leaving threads now since they're not allowed :P
They may not be allowed to, but some members still sometimes do create leaving threads
My work here is done *Disappears into thin air*

[Claire]

PGN, i mean that we cant stop them BEFORE they send the PM
And we're talking about new ppl who do that, not old members who return, there already are IP bans in place *rolls eyes*

[Shadow]

2. All the members i know are staying, so i dont know who you mean by "the old members are leaving", besides PC is getting new members continually
Old members are leaving, you can just look at the staff. Only two (excluding admins) of the current staff members were on the staff when I joined. All the others ones left.

And I agree, n00bs looking for popularity are crowding this place. They just follow everything else that's popular (and most of the time do it poorly or mess it up completely).
3. Technically there are no leaving threads now since they're not allowed :P
Thus, they're hiding a problem if they're not allowed...

[Claire]

Regarding staff who have left, quite a few still post but just didnt want the responsibility
For that point, i refer back to what i said about "Just because ppl have more work/things going on in their life doesnt mean that we should force them to stay..you cant control if ppl want to leave.."

[Suzu]

oh please!! the only way PC could "die" is if Steve and Kwesi want to take the site down XP
this seems kinda mellow dramatic...

[Ryoutarou]

Old members are leaving, you can just look at the staff. Only two (excluding admins) of the current staff members were on the staff when I joined. All the others ones left.

And I agree, n00bs looking for popularity are crowding this place. They just follow everything else that's popular (and most of the time do it poorly or mess it up completely).

Thus, they're hiding a problem if they're not allowed... There is/was a general leaving thread for that. If older members leave, so be it. People have to get on with their lifes.

[NiNGi]

Alas.... poor PC.... There must be a problem going on already if we are discussing this, so no one can deny that PC is not having problems at all.... Even though people try to hide it, PC's 'quality' as a forum is dropping.... I remember how good it was once - pure friendliness overwhelmed the whole forum, regardless of level, REP(!), Fame etc....
People are now fighting and aiming to the power and administration of PC, just to feel more important and recognised... how childish.... :sleeping:

[Fixen]

I have not been here for any longer than five months, and therefore I have no say to compare between its past and present.

However, I wish to say that old members leaving is not some abnormal phenomenon. It happens. Someday this person leaves, and that person leaves, either that they lost taste to the subject, or real life issues press them to do so.

What we can do now is live through this little wave of problems that will happen in any switch between two generations of avid, reputable, and popular posters. I hate to lecture, but seeing the examples in history of every world culture, this is only natural.

As for our reputation, I only side to its removal only because it means nothing. Your reputation in this forum is determined by your postcount. If you don't post much, people will cast you aside. Done. And if you have been here long enough, it doesn't take a digital value to determine your true reputation. People would have known you well enough to determine it by their own discretion. The reputation bar is nothing but a little showcase of a person's status. People don't have to look at it to discern your true nature. Just by looking at your posts, one can see you. If that's so, why whine over a little bar that says you're stupid when you post intelligently?

The PM Problem: Flaming will happen. What matters is the aftermath. I suggest that we either assign mods to specifically control this issue, or just go through the systematic removal of hotheads. I'm not asking for tyranny, but it was clearly necessary.

The population and noobs: What is the problem about living together? There's always a bad apple in the bucket, and we can't do anything about it. If anything, I may comment that the modern view of internet consists of cutting short the distance between the internet and real life. In real life, of course, you can get offended and such, but why do that in the internet, when you can't possibly control what a person does, because you cannot see the person, don't know who that person is, and much less where he is? People are thinking just like they do in real life as in online life. If all becomes horrible, what's the problem about throwing all this aside and get on with real life? It's not like any further argument and flaming will get a person to rally his gang and start throwing bricks into your house, right?

Those are my views, and it's nothing but an opinion. I hope people can consider these views of mine before continuing to flame in part confusion, and part selfishness.

[Teara]

I have to wonder...do some people even realize what this is? This is a forum. A fun thing to do in your spare time. Sure we all want it to be something enjoyable, but that wouldn't be so hard if you just treated people with respect in the first place.
*Too many 'n00bs'
~I don't think I need say much here. It's just as Lightning said, new members will sign up. That's a good thing. What fun would a forum be without the members?
*The T-Dome
~Don't look if you don't like.
*It's not the same
~Again, what can be said that hasn't allready been said? Time moves, that's how it is. Things happen.
*The reputatoin system is unfair!
~This should be used to reward members for outstanding posts, why we even have a negative system I don't understand. If a post is bad then report it. If you're being a friendly member as you should be, then you will have no reason to fear this system anyways.
*upseting PMs.
~Now if only there were some way to go to your CP and put someone on an ignore list so they can't send you PMs anymore...
*SPAM
~this is a naturall thing in a forum. It is what mods are here for. They controll the spam and let the rest of the members continue to socialize as normal. A thread complaining about it won't help any.
*old members are leaving.
~yes, that is called life. People have other things to do.

[Shadow]

I see some people are confusing n00bs with newbs. Newbs are fine, they are just new people and are willing to learn the rules and get along fine with everyone.

N00bs aren't neccesary new, and think they know everything and if someone tries to help them or tell them they did something wrong, they act rude and/or start flaming.

N00bs are the one we're complaining about...

[Claire]

I just think everyone being overdramatic :\
The only issue to be brought up is the rep, and thats already being talked about (and started quite a while before this thread began)
We cant actually change people and their personalities, and if someone is very disrespectful then they are banned.
And, shocking as this may be, ppl are allowed to leave PC -its not an eternal bond ^^; sometimes work and life outside PC just become too hectic

*My psychological opinion*
If you think something, such as PC, is bad, then you are going to look out for the bad things, and not even acknowledge the good -this is known as the "Horns" effect.
Think of the good things -for myself, i have great friends here, and i enjoy the topics and debates that come up, which is why im here so often ^^
So just try to see the good, rather than trying to start a "revolution" in a place that really doesnt need one :\

[NiNGi]

I have to wonder...do some people even realize what this is? This is a forum. A fun thing to do in your spare time. Sure we all want it to be something enjoyable, but that wouldn't be so hard if you just treated people with respect in the first place.
*Too many 'n00bs'
~I don't think I need say much here. It's just as Lightning said, new members will sign up. That's a good thing. What fun would a forum be without the members?
*The T-Dome
~Don't look if you don't like.
*It's not the same
~Again, what can be said that hasn't allready been said? Time moves, that's how it is. Things happen.
*The reputatoin system is unfair!
~This should be used to reward members for outstanding posts, why we even have a negative system I don't understand. If a post is bad then report it. If you're being a friendly member as you should be, then you will have no reason to fear this system anyways.
*upseting PMs.
~Now if only there were some way to go to your CP and put someone on an ignore list so they can't send you PMs anymore...
*SPAM
~this is a naturall thing in a forum. It is what mods are here for. They controll the spam and let the rest of the members continue to socialize as normal. A thread complaining about it won't help any.
*old members are leaving.
~yes, that is called life. People have other things to do.
Apparently you have a smashing point, but not everyone has your own point of view.... And about the time passing - It's obvious that time passes and things change, but is it necessary to make them change the wrong way? can't you correct some trend of behaviour before it gets worse? IMHO there is nothing wrong with it.

[Fixen]

I see some people are confusing n00bs with newbs. Newbs are fine, they are just new people and are willing to learn the rules and get along fine with everyone.

Well they're just people who feel that sarcasm can exist in a forum without people casting a discerning eye at them. What I have a problem figuring out is how people can fail in casting these people aside from their minds. My main argument is that online users are becoming too touchy to people they don't even know, and their posts, which don't mean anything at all. Why the sentimentality when you don't even know these people and what they're thinking?

Here are a few quotes from my MSN discussion with Suzu,

have you noticed that reputation is existing in this little imbalance?

noobs: high
ordinary members: low
mods/admins: top

Fixen: it's a curve
:.Paige.:: "never noticed that"
Fixen: "a curve that so elaborately put the ordinary members, who are minding their own businesses, at the bottom, basically casting them away...so another word for this is your popularity, and much more your activity. the amount of time you spend to promote yourself into the spotlight."

"in the spotlight on the stage of forums, there are certainly prima donnas, and also people who can't sing for crap, and just jumped to the spotlight to make fools out of themselves"
So why don't we accept this fact, sit back, and enjoy the never-ending audition?

(Yes I'm dramatic...forgive me. Might be my enthusiasm to debating acting up.)

[pokejungle]

You know what? It may surprise you all, but writing this thread wasn't fun for me. I'm pretty depressed right now. meh... I just want PC to be a fun place, where nice members are in abundance.

I didn't think people would get mad at me for stating PC has problems. Obviously we don't want to face the music. That's a sad fact in itself.

The little ray of hope is the only thing that keeps me here. The hope that I can change PC, and restore it to how it was. Even though I know people will fight me everystep of the way. If that's the way its going to be, so be it. Popularity isn't my goal in this crusade.

Anyone who says I'm being melodramatic doesn't fully understand the value of PC. PC is a hub, a virtual community. It was a fun place to, it CAN be a fun place to be. I just want to make sure its a nice place for everyone. Is that so bad?

I'll probably be absent from PC tomorrow because of Thanksgiving, but I'm going to change PC. Starting most likely on Friday XD

For all of you nice members out there, we're not an extinct species yet. We have the power to turn PC around if we utilize it. Please realize that.

Anyone who does want to acknowledge PC has a problem ~ I pity you. I really, really do. Admitting mistakes is hard, but its worse if we turn our backs.

On the last note, I want everyone to know I'm a good member. No, I'm not complementing myself, I'm just saying this thread wasn't made to cause controversy, and I'm sorry that this had to turn into an argument. I hope we can act more mature next time.

Signing Off,
PokeJungle

PS- Please take the bottom line of my sig to heart.

[Ryoutarou]

Apparently you have a smashing point, but not everyone has your own point of view.... And about the time passing - It's obvious that time passes and things change, but is it necessary to make them change the wrong way? can't you correct some trend of behaviour before it gets worse? IMHO there is nothing wrong with it. Ok it's only a forum. People have lifes outside of this. Things don't always change the way you want them to.

[^^NICK^^ v.3.0]

Sorry your depressed PJ. Have a great holiday, and I hope you aree successful with changing this place, and I might even come back if you do. I might as well really leave now, since you are.

[Claire]

PJ, you say "we need a revolution" but what reasons have u given?
"Ppl are becoming mean" -if someone you know if really disrespectful, then report them, simple as that

"Rep is evil" -that's been being considered since before this thread began..a lot of ppl abused it which is a shame..

..and thats it..thats all your reasons..and just because of that you think we need a revolution? That's just crazy..

To quote my last post:
*My psychological opinion*
If you think something, such as PC, is bad, then you are going to look out for the bad things, and not even acknowledge the good -this is known as the "Horns" effect.
Think of the good things -for myself, i have great friends here, and i enjoy the topics and debates that come up, which is why im here so often ^^
So just try to see the good, rather than trying to start a "revolution" in a place that really doesnt need one

[Jess]

I think PC has turned to a metropolis of evil >.<
Over time it has gained People who are not worthy of the title Moderator.
I think that PC is ran by 'STRANGERS'
I miss the old PC, The original PC from 2 years ago.The One I liked, Not this overcrowded.
Im actually leaving, Yeppers. *Locking the door* Never Coming Back.
Last Post I ever make.
And as proof I won`t come back, Im gonna request that Steve IP Ban me , Yep..Later all!

[Shadow]

To all those saying it's just a forum: Yes it is, but the thing is, all the other people that are posting are real people. It's not that different then going to the mall and talking to your friends. The only difference is that you don't know the people personally, so you should give them more respect then if their your "homies" or whatever.

[Claire]

Run by strangers? Again, it seems i have to repeat myself..
"shocking as this may be, ppl are allowed to leave PC -its not an eternal bond ^^; sometimes work and life outside PC just become too hectic"
People are allowed to leave for personal reasons ppl, you cant tie them all to PC

[^^NICK^^ v.3.0]

Ha, I'm sorry, I just gotta say something. Jess, no matter how funny this is, you don't know how many times you've said you're not coming back. Ahh, if I had a dime everytime...

[NiNGi]

You know what? It may surprise you all, but writing this thread wasn't fun for me. I'm pretty depressed right now. meh... I just want PC to be a fun place, where nice members are in abundance.

I didn't think people would get mad at me for stating PC has problems. Obviously we don't want to face the music. That's a sad fact in itself.

The little ray of hope is the only thing that keeps me here. The hope that I can change PC, and restore it to how it was. Even though I know people will fight me everystep of the way. If that's the way its going to be, so be it. Popularity isn't my goal in this crusade.

Anyone who says I'm being melodramatic doesn't fully understand the value of PC. PC is a hub, a virtual community. It was a fun place to, it CAN be a fun place to be. I just want to make sure its a nice place for everyone. Is that so bad?

I'll probably be absent from PC tomorrow because of Thanksgiving, but I'm going to change PC. Starting most likely on Friday XD

For all of you nice members out there, we're not an extinct species yet. We have the power to turn PC around if we utilize it. Please realize that.

Anyone who does want to acknowledge PC has a problem ~ I pity you. I really, really do. Admitting mistakes is hard, but its worse if we turn our backs.

On the last note, I want everyone to know I'm a good member. No, I'm not complementing myself, I'm just saying this thread wasn't made to cause controversy, and I'm sorry that this had to turn into an argument. I hope we can act more mature next time.

Signing Off,
PokeJungle

PS- Please take the bottom line of my sig to heart.
Hey Hey Hey wait a moment dude! Don't you think you're getting it a bit too extreme?? things such as "take the bottom line of my sig to heart" or "im pretty depressed right now" are a bit extreme aren't they? Just realize: THIS IS ONLY AN ONLINE FORUM! It has nothing to do with your personal life and it should not even affect your emotions that much o.O'
This is not something that has to be taken like the french revolution XD I understand your point indeed, but don't take it as a matter of life and death XD

And btw I dont like all of this stuff either, but its not making me depressed o.O'
I wouldn't mind that much if PC closes tomorrow... I'd be disappointed and I would miss PC much, but I won't certainly commit seppuku for that XD

[Jess]

MY NAME IS JESS AND I AM A FLAMING IDIOT, DURR HURR!

eDITED BY DT OF COURSE :D :p

[^^NICK^^ v.3.0]

Oh, and since you signed off MSN so quickly after making that comment that I saw coming, JESS, *edited by DT so hate me*

[NiNGi]

...... people you're getting immature.......
This should be a normal discussion, not a show of extravagant people leaving PC and swearing.... ok im goin to sleep right now cya

[Miyu-chan]

But I see where she is going with this. If the age limit is 18 then it would be fine because if you lied about your age and you end up getting in trouble by your parents and they try to force the blame on PC, then the staff could just show that the person lied about their age and therefore, Pc is in the clear. I hope that makes sense a bit. Atleast that is how I understood what she was tryign to say.
Yes, that was what I was trying to say. =]

[Claire]

XD good job there DT, that sounds much better

[^^NICK^^ v.3.0]

yeah, well before Andy closes the thread. Um, I...have nothing to say, just wanted to post before closes :P

[DragonTrainer]

Andy doesn't get to close it, I do!

*Hissssssssss*

~Closed

[Arcanine]

Well I would like to leave a final note.


Like said before PC is a forum.
Yes the rep is out of hand. But it is being talked about right now by the staff. We are working on ways to fix it, or get rid of it if we have to. And I do think a reason is the rep. It's worthless now, because it has got out of hand. Members asking for rep, members giving bad rep for no reason and other things.

People are always going to join. That can't be stopped nor would I want it to stop. Think about it, if I never joined, or Abby never joined or Erica or Dakota or any of the other staff or other members how much different would PC be today? That new member that joined might be a Mod down the road. Do you think that ^^NICK^^ though "well this Arcanine member is going to be a Mod some day" when he welcomed me on the old PC? I bet he didn't nor any of the other members that welcomed me.

Members are always going to leave PC and things are always going to change. You can't stop it, people move on with their life. I didn't like it when Erica left and Abby was de-Admined. But things change and stuff happens. They move on, the same should go on for the rest of it. Sure I wish Erica was still an S-Mod and Abby back to an Admin, Steve and Kwesi on a lot like it used to be. But it's not going to happen, I can't change it nor can any of you. We shouldn't stay is the past with everything. We have to move on and try to make PC better anyway we can.

The main reason why PC is not fun to many of you is because you are used to PC. Watch a funny movie over and over and it won't be as good as the first time. Because you are used to it. Listen to a song over and over and it just won't sound as good as the first time you listened to it. It's because you are used to it. PC is more or less the same. Sure new things get added new members come along but you are used to it. There is nothing you can change about that. Yes there are other things that don't make PC as fun as you first joined. But the main reason is that you are used to PC and how PC works and goes.

That's all for my rant in this thread.

[Flaming Torchic]

You know, it still amazes me that people could care so much about the T-Dome, even if they have a choice to see it. It's not that I do not think that it is right for the T-Dome to be filled will extremely inappropriate threads, it just makes me wonder..

Anyways, Erica is in the right with rep. If you are getting bad rep points and you can't stand it, then disable your rep. It's that simple.

And yes, like people have said, things change, and not everyone agrees with them, but most just move on, and continue posting at PC.

I know that your intentions were good pokejungle, it's just that I think you misunderstood me. First of all, I originally made that name because I was irritated by certain members, and second of all, I didn't mean to go make another one of these threads, I just meant make suggestions in Question & Feedback, and try to make interesting threads.