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4th Gen Legends - Real or not?

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wolfie1177

PC needs to get more brutal!!!
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    Lol, sorry if I offended y'alls. I was just throwing in my two cents. I'll leave now ^_^
     

    eternalglory

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  • the sea really is a big place, makes sense to me that more then one lugia would be around... but would that make more than one set of legendary birds?
    Also, Deoxys came from an asteroid/meteor (im not an astrologist here) with some space virus that mutated and formed him.
    If you want to go strictly by games, take Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (ha).
    Spoiler:

    Also, why were people depicting an epic battle between Mew and Arceus? Go to a Pokemon Fanfic if you want to pull that, don't go off topic in this thread.
     

    Zungie

    Professor Zee
    93
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  • No zungie! come back to gameland! stay away from the anime! its bad! inconsistencies!

    As you can see i go strictly by game information, as there often clashes between the shows and the games. And seeing as the games came first, they are usually right :)

    Now answer my question people: what/why is deoxys???
    I was just answering that guy's question, and backing him up.

    i think the cartoon has to be factually correct by gamefreak to alow them to show it....
    Not really, as it goes off the tanjent alot.
    And seeing as the movies are for the most part based on the anime, they're not the best reference either.
    Basically, the games come first.

    Lol, sorry if I offended y'alls. I was just throwing in my two cents. I'll leave now ^_^
    Lol, no problem.
    If anything thoguh, it was a valid point.

    maybe the different parts of the sea have different rulers?
    Woulds make a fair bit of sense.

    the sea really is a big place, makes sense to me that more then one lugia would be around... but would that make more than one set of legendary birds?
    Also, Deoxys came from an asteroid/meteor (im not an astrologist here) with some space virus that mutated and formed him.
    If you want to go strictly by games, take Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (ha).
    Spoiler:

    Also, why were people depicting an epic battle between Mew and Arceus? Go to a Pokemon Fanfic if you want to pull that, don't go off topic in this thread.
    OK firstly, there was a theory knocking around that Arceus was once evil. I made the story to help more people understand my theory. I might post it in the fan-fic board though :D
    Secondly you heard of the ledgendary dogs?
    Maybe this is another theory coming on :D
    Different regions have different myths too.
    And finaly, I don't know kuch behind de

    To be continued!
     

    Diageo

    Corrupted...
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  • when do the games contradict the anime? And how are they suppose to depict goldly powers in games, if they did that it would unbalance the game, but they can do that in the anime... Thats why u can only catch one legendary and all the stuff whereas the anime has more of them....
     

    eternalglory

    Private Eye
    88
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  • why does zungie act like he owns this thread >_<
    yes i have heard of the dogs
    i made quite a legitimate post a while back, so stop being so damn condescending
     
    161
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  • Thought I'd give my views on the legendaryness and creation.

    When exactly was Mew called a God of any description, anywere, ever? It is the stated to be the "root of all pokemon", meaning that it was the initial breed of pokemon, not a God.

    Red/Blue
    So rare that it is still said to be a mirage by many experts. Only a few people have seen it worldwide.
    Yellow
    When viewed through a microscope, this Pokémon's short, fine, delicate hair can be seen.
    Stadium
    A mythical Pokémon of South America. A growing number of people have seen it recently.
    Gold
    Apparently, it appears only to those people who are pure of heart and have a strong desire to see it.
    Silver
    Its DNA is said to contain the genetic codes of all Pokémon, so it can use all kinds of techniques.
    Crystal
    Because it can learn any move, some people began research to see if it is the ancestor of all Pokémon.
    Stadium 2
    Apparently, it appears only to those people who are pure of heart and have a strong desire to see it.
    Ruby
    Mew is said to possess the genetic composition of all Pokémon. It is capable of making itself invisible at will, so it entirely avoids notice even if it approaches people.
    Sapphire
    Mew is said to possess the genetic composition of all Pokémon. It is capable of making itself invisible at will, so it entirely avoids notice even if it approaches people.
    Emerald
    A Mew is said to possess the genes of all Pokémon. It is capable of making itself invisible at will, so it entirely avoids notice even if it approaches people.
    FireRed
    A Pokémon of South America that was thought to have been extinct. It is very intelligent and learns any move.
    LeafGreen
    So rare that it is still said to be a mirage by many experts. Only a few people have seen it worldwide.
    Diamond
    Because it can use all kinds of moves, many scientists believe Mew to be the ancestor of Pokémon.
    Pearl
    Many scholars regard it as the ancestor of Pokémon since it can use all known moves.

    All Canon, none stating it is a God. Just the root species. I remember reading that in one of the various Pokemon manga series it is said that all pokemon are of the one species, just different offshoots due to area, climate and living conditions. Considering the SciFiness of Pokemon G1, the Pokedex readings of Mew, especialy in Gen4, this would prove to be correct. While Mew does not evolve, and certainly not any type of diety, it would adapt to it's surroundings, becoming different species.

    From this, I go to the infernal mindboggler that is Arceus.

    Diamond
    It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1000 arms.
    Pearl
    It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.

    While it is easy to see into it "Shaped the Universe" there is one key difference to Mew. Wording. Mythology is not always fact. Scholary involves research, and consider, while it is obvious the pokemon world was a very myth based place, it is now a very technological based place, so the research may have scientific basis, reason for wording aswell. I would assume the book that is ingame is a collection of Myths, not a research on their factual basis, again, due to no wording to assume otherwise. Likewise, with Palkia and Dialga, in canon(Games) we have yet to see Palkia and Dialga distort time, while both have the power to alter space(Thier emergance suggests they both have spacial altering abilities.) Dialga's pokedex does state, not "Myth Mention" it's time controling abilities.

    This Myth talk also goes for the Hoenn Trio aswell. We see that Kyogre can create a rainstorm, on the level of Raindance, not on the level of flooding. Likewise with Groudon, he can intensify the suns rays like Sunnyday, nothing is done with land formation. Thankfully, other than living in extremely high altitude, Rayquaza has no "Godly" attributes associated with it in myths. These are obviously very gifted and powerful monsters, but far from land/sea creators. While I do not feel like copying it again, look them up in Bulbapedia, they state the words Myth and Mythology alot. As does Regigas. I'd assume the Regis, being human made, are based off of him, as he is "Legendary", the Pokedex states the word "Legend" in it's description.

    Now, as for all this Sea Lord speak.

    Kyogre is explained. He is credited with it's creation, but due to ingame events, lacks the power, he can just make it rain a hell of a lot. He dwells there though.

    Lugia, on the other hand, while it does have alot of "It is said", but also has confirmation of it's extreme power from RSE, to the point where a light flutter blows down a house. All of this "Guardian" speak falls into the catagory of "Mythology, Legends and other non-factual Pokedex readings" Again, dwells in islands in the sea.

    Manaphy, other than the Anime, with all it's pokedex, size, location, personality, ect descrepencies allocate Manaphy any greatness. Canon wise, he is nothing but extremely rare, like the Lati@s.

    So, realy, we have no Ruler of the Sea, all are area legends. Closest is Lugia, as his power is shown to be so great, with Kyogre as a second and Manaphy as a nothing.

    Darkrai's sleep lulling and Dream creating is confirmed, while the nightmares are folktales, which is a new term. :P While the Boy on Iron Island may confirm it's Freddy Krueger-ness, it is not completely confirmed. Likely, but not a definite yes.

    Cresselia, oddly enough, has no power, status or any mention.

    Ho-Oh's qualities are all Myths and It is said aswell, nothing grounded, quite odd is it's lack of mentioning power, considering Lugia's. Not even the Reserrection tale gets a factual mention.

    The original two trios are interesting though,
    Articuno's has no Myth Mention of it's ability to create a blizzard(Doubtful if they mean a battle Blizzard, it's be a pointless mention)
    Zapdos's GenIV dex confirms it's ability to contol Thunder(same as Articuno)
    and Moltres' GenIII confirms it's fire controling abilities.(same as Previous)

    Entei has never had his eruption abilities Myth Mentioned, always fact, but with that said, we hear Entei Roar, not bark, and their are few Volcanos.
    Raikou has never had it's thunderbolts and rainclouds disputed(With this said, it's bloody lame as alot of other pokes can use Thunderbolt)
    Suicune is the same with it's purification capabilities.

    With these six Legendaries, and these specific qualities, nothing is disputed, everything is stated as fact, no Myth, Legend, no "It is said", this is quite odd considering the rest mostly are. One can gather these have had enough human contact.

    On the topic of Jirachi, it has never been confirmed, it is all It has been said in relation to it's wish granting powers, and I would not take the attack Wish as evidence though, it is learnt by many.

    The last one I can think of that has been allocated a high spot is Giratina, other than it's high states and Grave Living, it also has nothing concrete.

    For future refernce, I'd say, before believing anything, read the wording, then decide. Key terms
    MYTH
    LEGEND
    IT IS SAID
    FOLKLORE

    Now that was a long post :P
     

    Diageo

    Corrupted...
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  • WOW that was a great post, kinda what i was trying to say ages ago but then gave up... Well done man, I agree with you completely...
     

    El Gofre

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    Yeah thankyou Lt, some concrete that mew is the ancestor not god :)
    But i stand by that kyogre/groudon shaped the land. They only get rain dance/sunny day cuz would it be wise to give kyogre something that makes him even stronger? its the only viable ability thats inkeeping with the story without making them next to invincible.
     

    Zungie

    Professor Zee
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  • I'm with Gofre(as usual xD) on Kyogre and Groundon. There are only few pokémon that learn secies specific moves.
    And cudos to Eirikr for compiling a good concrete post.
    Although a bit of feedback:
    • I agree with Mew, it's just I believe that he's INCREDIBLY powerfull!

    • We say alot about Arceus, but like you say, ALOT if not ALL of it is myth or personal theories. Pokédex entries thoguh.. I know I take most, if not all of it in, as being factual. As the 'Dex is a scientific invention, and science is based on facts, it's only wise (in my eyes) to take it as mostly factual.

    • Lugia, Lugia, Lugia.. You only have to look at it's in-game stat.'s to know it's special. I personally wrekon that Lugia is almost God-like, just not as powerfull as the likes of Arceus! I've never REALLY considered Lugia as Lord of the Sea, but somwhat even more special. If you take it's species specific move, Aeroblast; it wouldn't be used in the sea that's for sure, so does this mean a donination of the sky in some way? I know that Aeroblast is the only concrete eveidence, and some of you might not see it as plausable, but it's worth a think.

    • Ho-Oh is my favourite pokémon for that specific reason; it's the most mythilogiacal pokémon out there! I always like to think that he's outrageously powerfull, even without justification. Also he was the first legendary ever to appear in the Anime, but took a while to hit out game boy's.

    • Giratina is competing for Ho-Oh's spot! Maybe for future games to come, 'eh?

    That's all for now!
    Regards, Zungie.

    PS. Since when have I acted as I've owned this thread?
    I've just took a great interest in it, and if you're refering to something I said earlier, it was a gag between me and Gofre..
     

    El Gofre

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    Yeah wen we say we own the thread, its uz we've posted more on it than most other people (Me in particular lol)

    I get confuddled when it comes to giratina, it says its the renegade poke but theres no info on why it is

    :O sudden revelation.

    Its the god/devil situation; Arceus has always been god, but giratina, and extremely powerful poke wanted a special duty like the ither legends, or wasnt happy with his own. He then went off like lucifer (Hence the renegade) and tried to overthrow arceus. Arceus the beat his ass and sent him off to his paralell world to live alone.

    Just a quick thought, gimme feedback people

    By gofre, the metaphorical owner of this thread. :D
     
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  • Yeah thankyou Lt, some concrete that mew is the ancestor not god :)
    But i stand by that kyogre/groudon shaped the land. They only get rain dance/sunny day cuz would it be wise to give kyogre something that makes him even stronger? its the only viable ability thats inkeeping with the story without making them next to invincible.
    True, but, consider this. It is said in Myth Mention and atleast some new Island should have poped up or a Flood of a Town, which is not beyond programming, could have been done to prove this.
    Unless we get a GenIII remake, or a Wii game in the spirit of XD proves this, any Land/Sea formation is personal canon.

    And cudos to Eirikr for compiling a good concrete post.
    Although a bit of feedback:
    • I agree with Mew, it's just I believe that he's INCREDIBLY powerfull!
    Thanks, it took me 2 hours going through Pokedex entries.
    • We say alot about Arceus, but like you say, ALOT if not ALL of it is myth or personal theories. Pokédex entries thoguh.. I know I take most, if not all of it in, as being factual. As the 'Dex is a scientific invention, and science is based on facts, it's only wise (in my eyes) to take it as mostly factual.
    Which is where most misconception comes from on Legends, the Dex never states abilities or events if "Myth Mentioned" which realy makes me want to edit Bulbapedia and put up a new page. :P

    • Lugia, Lugia, Lugia.. You only have to look at it's in-game stat.'s to know it's special. I personally wrekon that Lugia is almost God-like, just not as powerfull as the likes of Arceus! I've never REALLY considered Lugia as Lord of the Sea, but somwhat even more special. If you take it's species specific move, Aeroblast; it wouldn't be used in the sea that's for sure, so does this mean a donination of the sky in some way? I know that Aeroblast is the only concrete eveidence, and some of you might not see it as plausable, but it's worth a think.
    Raikou and Jirachi contredict this thought. Raikou's Thunderbolt has been around forever, does that make Raichu, Magneton and Starmie legendary? Of course not. Same goes with Jirachi, Umbreon and Wish. Yes, Aeroblast is a specific move, making it somewhat different circumstances, but it is already extremely powerful, stated by the 'dex as fact. The term "God" is realy inappropriate to use, especialy with Deoxys, Arceus, Palkia, Dialga and Giratina in existance, were are not to know if they are their area's Pidgey and Rattata. That would make an interesting story though, where those 5 are the commoners, and more abstract pokemon are the rarities.

    • Ho-Oh is my favourite pokémon for that specific reason; it's the most mythilogiacal pokémon out there! I always like to think that he's outrageously powerfull, even without justification. Also he was the first legendary ever to appear in the Anime, but took a while to hit out game boy's.
    I also quite like Ho-Oh, it has a very attractive design and very powerful both ingame and competitively. Also in the ANIME it has special significance, as does it in the myths and legends of Johto. Due to Ho-Oh's legends being somewhat newer than the rest, but again, not concrete. This age factor creates good debate for Ho-Oh's actions.

    I'm with Gofre(as usual xD) on Kyogre and Groundon. There are only few pokémon that learn secies specific moves.
    Which I have already touched. Something does make me want to say all Legendaries with Specific moves, and are of our world, are the original offshoots of Mew. But that'd be personal Canon.

    Sorry if I sound like I am biting anyones head off, I like this thread as it is very interesting, so I came here first after waking up. :P
     
    Last edited:

    Diageo

    Corrupted...
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  • Once again i agree with Eirikr, its like he replies to ppl what i want to tell them but just dont know how, not saying ur just thinking up what im thinking its just that i find everything you say very factual and true. I cant really contribute anymore cuz u keep saying everything i wanna say but better :(
     

    Zungie

    Professor Zee
    93
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  • ...
    :O sudden revelation.

    Its the god/devil situation; Arceus has always been god, but giratina, and extremely powerful poke wanted a special duty like the ither legends, or wasnt happy with his own. He then went off like lucifer (Hence the renegade) and tried to overthrow arceus. Arceus the beat his ass and sent him off to his paralell world to live alone.

    Just a quick thought, gimme feedback people

    By gofre, the metaphorical owner of this thread. :D
    And I am your sidekick! :P

    Sounds highly plausable. Disregarding what Eirikr said (sorry >.<), with Arceus being "God", obviously you'd get some jealous/envious pokémon as you do with humans. Maybe this is Giratina trying to get back into the living world? I hope Game Freak base alot of the next game on him, he's uber cool!

    Once again i agree with Eirikr, its like he replies to ppl what i want to tell them but just dont know how, not saying ur just thinking up what im thinking its just that i find everything you say very factual and true. I cant really contribute anymore cuz u keep saying everything i wanna say but better :(
    Don't flame.
    :l
    Only post if you have something to add, as I don't want anyone banned etc.

    Also thanks for replying Eirikr! :D
     

    Diageo

    Corrupted...
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  • That wasnt flaming, i was agreeing with him....

    The pokedex can state myths that arent fact even if it is a scientific product... If myths are all they know then they have to put it in. Better than leaving it blank...
     

    Teamtyranitar

    Fizz-X
    214
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  • Ok i checked serbii this rasie more questons In the pokedex in pearl
    it was born before the universe was
    Arceus
    Diamond It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.

    Pearl It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
    Kyroge
    Its the creator of the sea

    Ruby KYOGRE has the power to create massive rain clouds that cover the entire sky and bring about torrential downpours. This POKéMON saved people who were suffering from droughts.

    Sapphire KYOGRE is named in mythology as the POKéMON that expanded the sea by covering the land with torrential rains and towering tidal waves. It took to sleep after a cataclysmic battle with GROUDON.

    Emerald KYOGRE has appeared in mythology as the creator of the sea. After long years of feuding with GROUDON, it took to sleep at the bottom of the sea.

    Fire Red This POKéMON is said to have expanded the sea by bringing heavy rains. It has the power to control water
    .
    Leaf Green This POKéMON is said to have expanded the sea by bringing heavy rains. It has the power to control water.

    Phione
    is it a legend im not sure it breeds from manphy
     
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  • Ok i checked serbii this rasie more questons In the pokedex in pearl
    it was born before the universe was
    Arceus
    Diamond It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.

    Pearl It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.
    Kyroge
    Its the creator of the sea

    Ruby KYOGRE has the power to create massive rain clouds that cover the entire sky and bring about torrential downpours. This POKéMON saved people who were suffering from droughts. Nothing there about sea creation

    Sapphire KYOGRE is named in mythology as the POKéMON that expanded the sea by covering the land with torrential rains and towering tidal waves. It took to sleep after a cataclysmic battle with GROUDON.

    Emerald KYOGRE has appeared in mythology as the creator of the sea. After long years of feuding with GROUDON, it took to sleep at the bottom of the sea.

    Fire Red This POKéMON is said to have expanded the sea by bringing heavy rains. It has the power to control water
    .
    Leaf Green This POKéMON is said to have expanded the sea by bringing heavy rains. It has the power to control water.

    Phione
    is it a legend im not sure it breeds from manphy
    Phione, the Sea Drifter Pokemon
    Diamond
    A Pokémon that lives in warm seas. It inflates the flotation sac on its head to drift and search for food.
    Pearl
    A Pokémon that lives in warm seas. It inflates the flotation sac on its head to drift and search for food.
    Bolded parts in quote are my comment. Getting lazy now :P Acanine https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Arcanine_(Pokémon) has more Legendary attributes associated with it in factual pokedex entries than Phione / Manaphy. Hell, even Ninetales https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ninetales non factual ones make it sound more like a candidate for Legendary than Phione / Manaphy.
     
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  • I think the PokeDex only adds bits and pieces to our understanding. What if you combined all parts? If you do, it all makes sense if you do.

    Not enough to take as fact. It is highly dubious as a resource to take seriously for the events a species has been involved in, or thier special qualities, when the wording is as if it is a report on a myth.
     
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