US Elections 2008: Debate the Issues

[Megera]

Except that Palin, unlike Hillary supporters, is pro-life. Not going to garner that much support. Palin was nominated so that she could garner the evangelical vote (frankly, those retards have too much power than they should in the Republican party).

 

[Allstories]

I do not trust Barack Obama due to the fact that he has left his half-brother to rot in Africa and apparently has strong Islamic ties. He also lacks the experience necessary to lead our country.

1. He barely knows this brother. Why does he owe anything to this brother that he doesn't know, who doesn't seem to care much about him either, and who is just living as people in Kenya live?
2. Obama is not a muslim.
3. He was a community organizer in Chicago, a college law professor, a civil rights attorney, President of Harvard Law Review, he was in the Illinois senate for eight years, and the US senate for four. That sounds pretty experienced to me. What the hell else do you want?

 

[Netto Azure]

That...

1. He barely knows this brother. Why does he owe anything to this brother that he doesn't know, who doesn't seem to care much about him either, and who is just living as people in Kenya live?
2. Obama is not a muslim.
3. He was a community organizer in Chicago, a college law professor, a civil rights attorney, President of Harvard Law Review, he was in the Illinois senate for eight years, and the US senate for four. That sounds pretty experienced to me. What the hell else do you want?

That is true (# 1 & 2)...Those are just rumors sent out by the conservative right (Old "normal" politics) to cast doubt on Obama...And they SAY they won't go into the negative and start partisan politics...Such hypocrytical rhetoric...

 

[txteclipse]

How would Americans like it if the, let's say, Chinese government came here accusing us of having WMD's, took our leader and hung him?

They wouldn't, because we wouldn't crash planes into their buildings.

Iraq is a tricky business. There's simply a lot of unknowns. I agree that it's been going on for a long time, but I seriously doubt we can simply leave without there being at least some negative consequences. Pulling out slowly seems the best idea at the moment.

It is clear that he only nominated Palin as his VP to get the female vote.

And because she's freaking awesome. One of the major (and few) reasons I'm voting for McCain because I want her to be VP. That said (and in explanation of why I said "few"), I don't really like any of the current candidates. Obama is the changing wizard of changing change, and McCain is the warmonger.

EDIT: and about that Obama-McCain comparison site. I'd love to point out a few things.

https://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-cuba.php

People love to say that Democrats wouldn't impose U.S. policy on other places. Well, look at the last bullet on Obama's list.

https://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-budget.php

McCain is much more in-depth. And holy crap...look at that first bullet on McCain's side.

https://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-business-labor.php

Again, McCain is more developed. And he has a plan for the future. Look what he's saying there about staying competitive in the world economy.

https://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-deficit.php

I had to laugh.

https://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-economy.php

This one is half and half for me. Obama wants to help a lot of people, but I have no idea where he's going to find all that money. McCain wants to invest in future technology (new energy sources, without doubt, being among these). That means some people won't be helped, but if we save a lot of money by changing to new technology, we could potentially help more people in the end.

https://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-education-issue.php

Obama has some good stuff here, but I love how McCain wants student-centric education. He wants students to learn and be inspired, not just coast through classes.

https://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-energy.php

This is kinda "meh" for me. Clean nuclear power would be a godsend, so I'll give McCain credit for that, but I don't like the offshore drilling thing. Obama is misdirected, on the other hand: biofuel #1 is almost as expensive as regular gasoline and #2 uses crops, which will drive the price of food up. Which would you rather pay more for: food or gas?

THis is getting lengthy, and I'm getting tired, so I'll stop now. Might do the rest later, might not.

 

[Aurafire]

1. He barely knows this brother. Why does he owe anything to this brother that he doesn't know, who doesn't seem to care much about him either, and who is just living as people in Kenya live?
2. Obama is not a muslim.
3. He was a community organizer in Chicago, a college law professor, a civil rights attorney, President of Harvard Law Review, he was in the Illinois senate for eight years, and the US senate for four. That sounds pretty experienced to me. What the hell else do you want?

Not very experienced when you take into account that he voted "present" over 100 times instead of simply saying yes or no....not getting you much experience if you don't actually participate. Though it's not surprising he's voted "present" that many times, since our useless congress doesn't do a thing anyway.

Look, he has some political experience. Compared to McCain though, it's laughable. For those of you that actually took the time to watch McCain's speech last night (not many I'm assuming), you would have seen his determination, resolve, and love for America. You would have seen a man ready to lead.

Let me tell you all a little something about Barack Obama: he's absolutely the most liberal politician ever to be elected. You may ask "So what?" Well I'll tell you what.

You think his massive tax increase is going to be good for America? False. The large corporations and wealthy entrepreneurs that drive this country's economy will be handcuffed with taxes. What does that mean? You're job is gone, and that company will move overseas. The people with the highest income will stop investing. Small business owners will be smothered with no room for growth. Essentially, the economy gets worse than it already is.

What about healthcare? Universal looks good on paper, but get ready for some crappy coverage. Without competition, quality of care goes down the toilet. You can't "socialize" medicine. Why do you think people become doctors? Competitive salaries. If healthcare is socialized, they have no more incentive. Why should one doctor work harder than another doctor if they're getting paid exactly the same salary? Sure, doctors are very caring and they want to help, but that six figure check in their wallet doesn't look too bad either. Now, I'm not stupid, I know our system needs reforming to help everyone out. People genuinely cannot afford health care, but socialization is NOT the way to do it.

Even on the War in Iraq, Obama has no "real" stance. He's been an anti-war democrat for his entire career in the Senate, voted against the surge, and now, since most of the country believes that the surge is working, he says "Well...Iraq was still a mistake, the real fight is in Afganistan." Anyone with half a brain could tell you that there are terrorists both in Afghanistan AND Iraq. Iraq may have been mismanaged, but don't tell me that there was no threat there. Iraq was a haven for terrorism, and you really are flat out blind if you can't see it. John McCain knows that, Obama doesn't. He's using the public's discontent with the war to get him votes. It's pandering at it's absolute worst. He goes to wherever the votes go...which is why he has practically no personal stance on any issue.

His strategy is so simple, but people are too dumb to see it (not anyone here, just people in general). Every one of his policies looks great on paper, and he's great at delivering his message. "Vote for me, and I will heal America". I ask everyone to look just a bit closer at what he really wants, because if you're young and blindly follow whatever you hear, you're playing right into his strategy. He's relying on you to not inform yourself about what he really wants. He hides behind his uplifting message and his "too good to be true" plan to heal America, and the everyday American, frustrated with the way our country is going, becomes infatuated with him. What he really wants is to move our country towards socialism, make it so that everyone can win and no one loses. Well people, life has winners and losers, and no amount of political skill can change that.

You might call me stubborn, stupid, ignorant, cruel, uncaring, crazy or anything else you might feel about me. All I can tell you is that I care about America, and so does John McCain. Under all the flowery and dressed up nonsense that Obama calls "policies" , what he really cares about is himself and getting elected. Again, use any of those words above to describe me, but don't you dare fault me for caring about my country. I don't pretend to be "enlightened" or "above" anyone else, and apologize if I come off that way. But I do call myself informed, and truth be told, most Americans are not.

I don't mind if you support Obama. I do mind if you blindly support him and don't know what he stands for. And you may not agree with me, but based on what he says and what he believes in, you'd be doing yourself a great dishonor if you didn't take a closer look. I'm not jumping down anyone's throats or anything.

And I'm not saying "If you vote for Obama, you're stupid." I just want people to be informed. Don't believe everything you hear, because if Obama does get elected, there's no way he can live up to all the hype he's created.

 

[Arshiki]

Except that Palin, unlike Hillary supporters, is pro-life. Not going to garner that much support. Palin was nominated so that she could garner the evangelical vote (frankly, those retards have too much power than they should in the Republican party).

Many women have disregarded that Palin is pro-life and have jumped on the McCain voting bandwagon. A prime example of this is the formation of PUMA (or Party Unity My Ass). The women apart of the organization have stated that they are more than one issue voters and Palin being against abortion is not of concern to them.

1. He barely knows this brother. Why does he owe anything to this brother that he doesn't know, who doesn't seem to care much about him either, and who is just living as people in Kenya live?
2. Obama is not a muslim.
3. He was a community organizer in Chicago, a college law professor, a civil rights attorney, President of Harvard Law Review, he was in the Illinois senate for eight years, and the US senate for four. That sounds pretty experienced to me. What the hell else do you want?

1. He is still his half-brother. Do you not think it is wrong that Obama has not attempted to get to know or provide for him? Even one of his half-brother's neighbors has stated in an interview that Obama should pay more attention to his half-brother and help him. If I was Obama, I would visit him occasionally and help provide for him.

To abandon a dissolute family member is low. Personally, I would hate to have someone like that in office.

2. I never claimed Obama is Islamic. I stated that he has ties with Islamics. He is associated with Malik Obama, his half-brother, and Raila Odinga, his cousin. Both Malik and Odinga believe in Sharia Law, which is a strict interpretation of Islam. They each seek to make Kenya entirely Islamic. Despite this, Obama has strong connections with them both. During his early campaigns, he even consulted Odinga, who sought his advice during his own campaign for prime minister of Kenya.

That said, I have a difficult time placing my trust in a man who is aware that the family members he associates with are Islamic extremists.

3. Others who have run for president have had substantially more experience than Obama. Compared to their resumes, his is very slim.

 

[Merzbau]

I think it's about time I interjected a little life into this thread, so I will do so now:

I don't care what all of you say, I'd still be voting for George Carlin.

 

[Allstories]

What about healthcare? Universal looks good on paper, but get ready for some crappy coverage. Without competition, quality of care goes down the toilet. You can't "socialize" medicine. Why do you think people become doctors? Competitive salaries. If healthcare is socialized, they have no more incentive. Why should one doctor work harder than another doctor if they're getting paid exactly the same salary? Sure, doctors are very caring and they want to help, but that six figure check in their wallet doesn't look too bad either. Now, I'm not stupid, I know our system needs reforming to help everyone out. People genuinely cannot afford health care, but socialization is NOT the way to do it.

What on earth are you talking about. Practically every country in the developed world has universal health care except for us. I mean, people still have to pay for dentists and prescriptions and all that other junk, but at least they can see regular doctors for free so that can retain their right to, y'know, not die in a gutter. UHC isn't some system where men hold doctors at gunpoint and make them perform surgeries without pay. It's basically just an insurance provider. A government insurance provider that you pay for through taxes instead of some cripplingly expensive, blood-sucking middleman. Tell me, how would YOU have us pay for health care?

 

[Netto Azure]

Hay...

I currently do not have the time to dissect this wall of text in a 5-minute time-frame (Sorry) But skimming through it I can say a couple of things...

*Yes the average American isn't informed enough to make an informed decision (So this thread was born...)

 

[Red1530]

I plan to vote Senator McCain as president because I agree with him on all my key concerns like the war in Iraq, the economy, and energy independence. Also Governor Palin in her sixteen years in politics has accomplished more than Senator Obama.

 

[Megera]

I really wish McCain had made a better decision with his VP choice. I really like her as a person, just like I like Bush as a person, but, like Bush (and Obama), she doesn't have much experience. Bush made some good decisions (and while I think we should've just nuked the whole Middle East and am very confused about why we're occupying Iraq rather than Afghaneuihtnuhkxmbhtnjh), but he's NOT a very good president. I believe his intentions are good, just as I believe Palin's are, but I'm afraid if McCain were to die and she became president without much experience as VP.

As VP, I think Palin is fine, but I'm unsure of her as president. So do I take the chance and vote McCain and hope he doesn't die (hey, his mom's still living), or do I waste my first presidential vote on Obama and let a Democrat prove that they can ruin the country (possibly permanently) just like a Republican?

 

[Xairmo]

I, unfortunately, can't vote. But if I could, I would definitely vote for Obama. I just don't like McCain, moreover I hate Palin. I'm gay and Palin is one of the people trying to make it so gay marriage will never happen. Obama probably has the entire gay vote, at least from what I've seen. I generally dislike conservatives based on the whole gay issue and I refuse to let them treat us in such a manner.
Then again, it is a win-win for the Democratic party. Seeing as how McCain actually wants to wwork with the Democratic party. also, there's the fact that McCain used to be super Liberal.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Ok...just to make an example of Canada (Hey...hey!!! YOU GUYS ARE VOTING TOO!!! SNAP ELECTIONS ARE BEING HINTED BY PM STEPHEN HARPER!!! TO BREAK YOUR POLITICAL DEADLOCK...WHAT A COINCIDENCE eh?) There are the two major Political parties Liberal and Conservative. (Their names essentially give their positions yet I think the Canadian Conservative party is more liberal than the Democrats.)

The Liberal Party of Canada and the Conservative Party of Canada are the largest parties here, but we do have other parties represented in our House of Commons. I would consider the New Democratic Party to be a major party. The Bloc Québécois is a party for Quebec interests. And then there's Green Party of Canada who just recently got a seat.

We have a whole bunch of other recognized parties, but those five above are what you'll see coverage for in the media - with particular attention given to the Liberals, Conservatives, and the NDP.

Also just want to point out that we had a couple other big parties. In that list above (ignoring the Bloc), there's two left-wing parties, one centre, and one right of centre. The current Conservative party is actual a recent party born from the merger of the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada and the Canadian Alliance.

My best guest in comparing our parties to yours is that the Democrats are some kind of mix of our Liberals and Conservatives, while the Republicans are the equivalent of our former Canadian Alliance.

 

[Ivysaur]

You think his massive tax increase is going to be good for America? False. The large corporations and wealthy entrepreneurs that drive this country's economy will be handcuffed with taxes. What does that mean? You're job is gone, and that company will move overseas. The people with the highest income will stop investing. Small business owners will be smothered with no room for growth. Essentially, the economy gets worse than it already is.

In the other hand, you have to realize two things: 1- Most of the international enterprises have already moved their production places to cheaper foreigner locations, so the amount of enterprises who still would want to mode to save money is small, since most have already did.

2- There is a big economical crisis going on in the world, and the US is one of the countries with the biggest deficit around. Getting more taxes from the richest people, the ones who aren't noticing the crisis at all, will only help stabilize the country's economy.
And investments? Well, they can also choose to go to Europe, where the crisis is starting already, so they can see how they lose them :D

What about healthcare? Universal looks good on paper, but get ready for some crappy coverage. Without competition, quality of care goes down the toilet. You can't "socialize" medicine. Why do you think people become doctors? Competitive salaries. If healthcare is socialized, they have no more incentive. Why should one doctor work harder than another doctor if they're getting paid exactly the same salary? Sure, doctors are very caring and they want to help, but that six figure check in their wallet doesn't look too bad either. Now, I'm not stupid, I know our system needs reforming to help everyone out. People genuinely cannot afford health care, but socialization is NOT the way to do it.

Well, maybe I'm saying this because I'm European, and we have had Universal health care for decades, or maybe because my father is a doctor so he knows about that, but Universal =! Socialism. Why? Because the hospitals still pay people depending on their merit, their experience, their work and the own hospital they are working on. The only thing that changes is that these salaries are paid by the State, and not by the poor people who have to use their savings to get their broken leg fixed.

Even on the War in Iraq, Obama has no "real" stance. He's been an anti-war democrat for his entire career in the Senate, voted against the surge, and now, since most of the country believes that the surge is working, he says "Well...Iraq was still a mistake, the real fight is in Afganistan." Anyone with half a brain could tell you that there are terrorists both in Afghanistan AND Iraq. Iraq may have been mismanaged, but don't tell me that there was no threat there. Iraq was a haven for terrorism, and you really are flat out blind if you can't see it. John McCain knows that, Obama doesn't. He's using the public's discontent with the war to get him votes. It's pandering at it's absolute worst. He goes to wherever the votes go...which is why he has practically no personal stance on any issue.

Actually, Iraq wasn't a haven for terrorism while Saddam was there. Iraq became a haven for terrorism when the US destroyed Saddam's regime but didn't keep the control over religious groups Saddam had, thus letting them become a meeting place for people who wanted to fight the US invasion. Something that, after all, it's not so condemnable.

But it's true that, after... five years? Finally the mess up that George Bush (from McCain's party?) caused is starting to be fixed. So? Nobody is talking of leaving Iraq tomorrow, but of giving the power back to the remade and pro-American Iraq's army and police, and leaving the country in waves, until Iraq is back under Iraq's control (ironic much?). It's true that the problem is now in Afghanistan, and Iraq is just a waste of money and people.

His strategy is so simple, but people are too dumb to see it (not anyone here, just people in general). Every one of his policies looks great on paper, and he's great at delivering his message. "Vote for me, and I will heal America". I ask everyone to look just a bit closer at what he really wants, because if you're young and blindly follow whatever you hear, you're playing right into his strategy. He's relying on you to not inform yourself about what he really wants. He hides behind his uplifting message and his "too good to be true" plan to heal America, and the everyday American, frustrated with the way our country is going, becomes infatuated with him. What he really wants is to move our country towards socialism, make it so that everyone can win and no one loses. Well people, life has winners and losers, and no amount of political skill can change that.

Well, calling Obama any actual politician a socialist is one of the worst insults you could do against all the true socialists in the 10th and 20th centuries. Socialism is currently impossible due that the politic of all the countries is controlled by the big economical groups (banks, industries, etc). They WON'T let one of the biggest and most economically important countries such as the US into socialism. The problem is that some people think that any kind of help towards the less able people, the poor people, etc., is socialism. Well, then all the European countries are socialist, sorry. Even the ultra-liberal UK has some of the "socialist" ideas Obama wants to use.

You might call me stubborn, stupid, ignorant, cruel, uncaring, crazy or anything else you might feel about me. All I can tell you is that I care about America, and so does John McCain. Under all the flowery and dressed up nonsense that Obama calls "policies" , what he really cares about is himself and getting elected. Again, use any of those words above to describe me, but don't you dare fault me for caring about my country. I don't pretend to be "enlightened" or "above" anyone else, and apologize if I come off that way. But I do call myself informed, and truth be told, most Americans are not.

Now please tell me that McCain doesn't care about himself getting elected, that he's doing this just out of love for America. Please, we are in the 21st century. Nobody acts just out of love in the two biggest parties in the biggest developed country around, sorry.

 

[Megera]

I, unfortunately, can't vote. But if I could, I would definitely vote for Obama. I just don't like McCain, moreover I hate Palin. I'm gay and Palin is one of the people trying to make it so gay marriage will never happen. Obama probably has the entire gay vote, at least from what I've seen. I generally dislike conservatives based on the whole gay issue and I refuse to let them treat us in such a manner.
Then again, it is a win-win for the Democratic party. Seeing as how McCain actually wants to wwork with the Democratic party. also, there's the fact that McCain used to be super Liberal.

Sorry to use you as an example, but you're basing your WHOLE entire opinion of who should run America based on who can get MARRIED? I'm GLAD you can't vote. McCain and Palin aren't separating gays and putting them in concentration camps. The conservatives as a whole just need more time (and LESS godawful gay pride parades) to realize that gays are just as human and loving at straights since they divorce at the same rate in Massachusetts.

ALSO my best friend alerted me to the fact that Obama is against gay marriage.

Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman." Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE INDECISIVE NOW.

 

[Aurafire]

In the other hand, you have to realize two things: 1- Most of the international enterprises have already moved their production places to cheaper foreigner locations, so the amount of enterprises who still would want to mode to save money is small, since most have already did.

2- There is a big economical crisis going on in the world, and the US is one of the countries with the biggest deficit around. Getting more taxes from the richest people, the ones who aren't noticing the crisis at all, will only help stabilize the country's economy.
And investments? Well, they can also choose to go to Europe, where the crisis is starting already, so they can see how they lose them :D



Well, maybe I'm saying this because I'm European, and we have had Universal health care for decades, or maybe because my father is a doctor so he knows about that, but Universal =! Socialism. Why? Because the hospitals still pay people depending on their merit, their experience, their work and the own hospital they are working on. The only thing that changes is that these salaries are paid by the State, and not by the poor people who have to use their savings to get their broken leg fixed.



Actually, Iraq wasn't a haven for terrorism while Saddam was there. Iraq became a haven for terrorism when the US destroyed Saddam's regime but didn't keep the control over religious groups Saddam had, thus letting them become a meeting place for people who wanted to fight the US invasion. Something that, after all, it's not so condemnable.

But it's true that, after... five years? Finally the mess up that George Bush (from McCain's party?) caused is starting to be fixed. So? Nobody is talking of leaving Iraq tomorrow, but of giving the power back to the remade and pro-American Iraq's army and police, and leaving the country in waves, until Iraq is back under Iraq's control (ironic much?). It's true that the problem is now in Afghanistan, and Iraq is just a waste of money and people.



Well, calling Obama any actual politician a socialist is one of the worst insults you could do against all the true socialists in the 10th and 20th centuries. Socialism is currently impossible due that the politic of all the countries is controlled by the big economical groups (banks, industries, etc). They WON'T let one of the biggest and most economically important countries such as the US into socialism. The problem is that some people think that any kind of help towards the less able people, the poor people, etc., is socialism. Well, then all the European countries are socialist, sorry. Even the ultra-liberal UK has some of the "socialist" ideas Obama wants to use.



Now please tell me that McCain doesn't care about himself getting elected, that he's doing this just out of love for America. Please, we are in the 21st century. Nobody acts just out of love in the two biggest parties in the biggest developed country around, sorry.

Wow someone dissected my entire essay!

I won't disagree with everything you said, but you missed my main point, which was that people are making uninformed decisions about who they're going to vote for.

However, I did not say the Obama wants full on socialism. I merely pointed out that many of his policies point towards it. Example: Universal Healthcare = socialized medicine = an idea tailored more to socialism than capitalism. Also, the whole tax issue....don't really want to explain again, but again, points toward a socialistic society.


Point being, I'm not a very good source for this information, I'll just put a conservative slant on it (sowwy =/) BUT, it wouldn't kill anyone to watch the news or read some articles and get informed instead of just saying "I'm voting for so-and-so because I hate Bush" Seriously, I hate that....

 

[Xairmo]

Sorry to use you as an example, but you're basing your WHOLE entire opinion of who should run America based on who can get MARRIED? I'm GLAD you can't vote. McCain and Palin aren't separating gays and putting them in concentration camps. The conservatives as a whole just need more time (and LESS godawful gay pride parades) to realize that gays are just as human and loving at straights since they divorce at the same rate in Massachusetts.

ALSO my best friend alerted me to the fact that Obama is against gay marriage.




HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE INDECISIVE NOW.

It's not JUST the marriage, it's gay rights in general. I hate feeling like a second class citizen. Who are you to judge what I base MY opinion on? Is it wrong to base my voting option on something that actually affects me? Really, how can you patronize me for basing my political standpoint on things that affect and are important to me. Seems like a form of hypocracy to me. The conservatives will never have had enough time. As for the "godawful" gay pride, do you even know how gay pride parades started? Gay pride parade is in remeberance of the gay people who were attacked in a gay bar by the police, there only crime having been gay, have a look for yourself. And if your "godawful" comment was directed at how we act during the parade, then I'd just like to point out that we act in such a manner to MOCK what conservatives think of us. I can assure, gay pride is an extreme exaggeration of the portrayal ofgays set by the conservatives.
Conservatives don't like change, period. And the reason they don't like Obama is because his whole campaign is based around CHANGE.

Also, I do believ Obama also said:
"Our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve...to live lives free of discrimination."

Moreover:
Palin was asked about her top three priorities as Governor, with regard to families. Palin's #2 priority? "Preserving the definition of 'marriage' as defined in our constitution."
and
During her 2006 run for Governor, Palin was asked, "Will you support an effort to expand hate crimes laws?" Palin's response? "No, as I believe all heinous crime is based on hate."


So maybe Obama isn't all for gay marriage at the moment, but he seems a hell of a lot closer to accepting the idea than McCain and Palin. Palin won't even recognize mistreatment of gay people.

 

[txteclipse]

Nobody acts just out of love in the two biggest parties in the biggest developed country around, sorry.

I saved a cat once. And I lean towards the republican side.

Conservatives don't like change, period.

Yeah, I'm holding you to this one, sorry. That's extremely prejudiced and narrow minded. I'm conservative, and I think there's tons of things that need to change in our country. These things primarily include cutting back on pollution, finding renewable energy sources, and *gasp* reducing and eliminating prejudice.

I'm going to say right now that I do not agree with the gay lifestyle. However, I don't hate gay people. I try to treat others like I would want to be treated. How would I like it if a vegetarian walked up and started screaming at me because I eat meat? I wouldn't like it, obviously, and I believe that no one has a right to act like that.

The current issues with gay marriage stem from the fact that it is originally a religious practice, and people of faith feel that the government is encroaching on one of their traditions. Marriage has been entwined with government since we came stateside from England: back then, however, religion more or less was government. Now they are separate, but the government still has some level of involvement in marriage (legal practices, official recognition, etc.). Now that people are trying to get the government to legalize gay marriage, religious groups are retaliating.

Ultimately, I don't think gay marriage is acceptable, and I don't recognize gay marriage as a "true" marriage. However, I think the country will eventually legalize it and that there will be priests willing to perform the union. That's between them, the couple, and God.

 

[Aurafire]

I saved a cat once. And I lean towards the republican side.



Yeah, I'm holding you to this one, sorry. That's extremely prejudiced and narrow minded. I'm conservative, and I think there's tons of things that need to change in our country. These things primarily include cutting back on pollution, finding renewable energy sources, and *gasp* reducing and eliminating prejudice.

I'm going to say right now that I do not agree with the gay lifestyle. However, I don't hate gay people. I try to treat others like I would want to be treated. How would I like it if a vegetarian walked up and started screaming at me because I eat meat? I wouldn't like it, obviously, and I believe that no one has a right to act like that.

The current issues with gay marriage stem from the fact that it is originally a religious practice, and people of faith feel that the government is encroaching on one of their traditions. Marriage has been entwined with government since we came stateside from England: back then, however, religion more or less was government. Now they are separate, but the government still has some level of involvement in marriage (legal practices, official recognition, etc.). Now that people are trying to get the government to legalize gay marriage, religious groups are retaliating.

Ultimately, I don't think gay marriage is acceptable, and I don't recognize gay marriage as a "true" marriage. However, I think the country will eventually legalize it and that there will be priests willing to perform the union. That's between them, the couple, and God.

Everything txteclipse said....I was going to post, but he said it all.

I'll add one more thing. Being against gay marriage doesn't mean you're discriminating against gay people. Do I hate gay people? Not even close, I know many of them and like them all the same. But unfortunately, the gay community will continue to put words in my mouth by saying that being against gay marriage is discrimination, which is incredibly false.

 

[Megera]

It's not JUST the marriage, it's gay rights in general. I hate feeling like a second class citizen. Who are you to judge what I base MY opinion on?

Well hey if the whole country has been invaded and poor, at least you can get married, right? It's that type of selfish thinking that I abhor. How do you feel like a second class citizen? Are you being lynched daily?

Is it wrong to base my voting option on something that actually affects me? Really, how can you patronize me for basing my political standpoint on things that affect and are important to me. Seems like a form of hypocracy to me.

It's moronic to base it on something like marriage. Go to Massachusetts or California for now, wait for the government to catch up with the times. And I fail to get why it's hypocritical.

The conservatives will never have had enough time.

They came to accept black people as human beings, right? OH WAIT NO I GUESS THEY DIDN'T. I GUESS CONDOLEEZA RICE IS JUST BUSH'S SLAVE GIRL.

As for the "godawful" gay pride, do you even know how blah blah blahblah. And if your "godawful" comment was directed at how we act during the parade, then I'd just like to point out that we act in such a manner to MOCK what conservatives think of us. I can assure, gay pride is an extreme exaggeration of the portrayal ofgays set by the conservatives.

Conservatives, and people, in general are stupid. They usually don't get mockery. So when they see the way gays act in those parades, that's ALL that sticks in their mind. It doesn't HELP your cause, but anyone who's already on your side will get it, but that's hardly the point.

Conservatives don't like change, period. And the reason they don't like Obama is because his whole campaign is based around CHANGE.

Or because he has never DONE anything, went to a church for 20 years with an anti-white pastor, etc. This is hardly about Obama, though, this is about me hating your selfish way to view the world.

Also, I do believ Obama also said:
"Our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve...to live lives free of discrimination."

Holy crap, NEWS FLASH!

Moreover:
Palin was asked about her top three priorities as Governor, with regard to families. Palin's #2 priority? "Preserving the definition of 'marriage' as defined in our constitution."

Again, just wait.

During her 2006 run for Governor, Palin was asked, "Will you support an effort to expand hate crimes laws?" Palin's response? "No, as I believe all heinous crime is based on hate."

She's right on this one. Watch the South Park episode where Cartman commits a hate crime. All crime is hateful. Just because someone kills a black man for being black doesn't mean he shouldn't be charged for more than murder.

So maybe Obama isn't all for gay marriage at the moment, but he seems a hell of a lot closer to accepting the idea than McCain and Palin. Palin won't even recognize mistreatment of gay people.

Mistreatment how? Because I honestly don't know.