6th Gen Pokemon Bank

[LightBlast]

At the end of the day it's a moral question. If you use certain devices to create your team, some people will hate you for it and you just have to accept it. Whatever you want to do is your decision, you just have to bear with the possible aftermath.

On topic: I don't think Nintendo wants to improve their anti-hacksystem, they just want to calm everything down.(yay Captain Obvious). Nintendo has given me the impression of laziness for some time now.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

I care about the game, I just don't care for breeding. I don't cheat my way through. I create Pokemon with perfectly legit stats to battle other people's Pokemon. Also just because I don't like breeding, it doesn't mean that I'm better of playing something else. If that was true, then I would barely play any games at all because every game has something that I don't like.

I don't compete in tournaments, nor do I plan to in the future, but on the youtube video, it said store your Pokemon for competitive battling as one of the main reasons, but that may only mean battlespot, and battling with friends.

If you create Pokemon to use you are cheating. If you do not play the right way you are cheating. There is no point in playing if all you intend to do is cheat. What you do is cheating. You don't like to breed, then get someone else to do it and help them by catching what they may need. Creating Pokemon through external devices IS cheating and is recognized as such.

 

[Sceptile14]

I did read most of your posts. I just got sick of you acting like you're more entitled to hack a competitive game because of your responsibilities. As if you have far more commitments and they are far more important than anything the rest of us have to deal with. The fact that you assume that you're busier than 90% of the people here further proves my point. Even if you ARE busier than 90% of the people here it's arrogant to think that it makes it okay to hack and cheat in a competitive game.



No, but again you seem to be using your personal situation to justify hacking your pokemon. I just didn't want you to think I was making light of your commitments just because I wasn't letting you off the hook for cheating.



It's not dictating if I'm telling you not to do something that's ILLEGAL, especially if it affects me and other players (which it does whether you want to admit it or not). If we were in a weight lifting competition or competing in a marathon and I said "don't use steroids because it gives you an unfair advantage", would that be dictating?

He never said that he has more responsibilities then you, that is just what you assumed he meant. Not once did he say that he has more important things to do then the rest of us, he just said that HE had no time to do it.

 

[Nah]

At the end of the day it's a moral question. If you use certain devices to create your team, some people will hate you for it and you just have to accept it. Whatever you want to do is your decision, you just have to bear with the possible aftermath.

On topic: I don't think Nintendo wants to improve their anti-hacksystem, they just want to calm everything down.(yay Captain Obvious). Nintendo has given me the impression of laziness for some time now.

You'd think that Nintendo would wanna improve the hack check system, since that was one of the selling points for the Bank. But you're right, we shouldn't expect much from them.

If you create Pokemon to use you are cheating. If you do not play the right way you are cheating. There is no point in playing if all you intend to do is cheat. What you do is cheating. You don't like to breed, then get someone else to do it and help them by catching what they may need. Creating Pokemon through external devices IS cheating and is recognized as such.

....Can we not get into what is and isn't the "right way" to play? It's like telling people what their favorite color must be.

And like I said before, there are very, very few people who are willing to breed perfect teams for others.

 

[Sceptile14]

If you create Pokemon to use you are cheating. If you do not play the right way you are cheating. There is no point in playing if all you intend to do is cheat. What you do is cheating. You don't like to breed, then get someone else to do it and help them by catching what they may need. Creating Pokemon through external devices IS cheating and is recognized as such.

I do not intend to cheat. If I intended to cheat, then I would put max evs in every stat. If I intended to cheat I would give a Blaziken Horn Drill and No Guard, but no, I don't do this. I get Pokemon with legal ivs, evs, abilities, moves etc, and use them to give myself a chance to battle. To you, it may be cheating but it is a different kind of cheating. My idea of cheating is getting something that would otherwise be impossible to get. You are focusing on where it has come from. To me, I am not breaking any rules. The way I see it, if the game doesn't recognise them and stop me from battling, then it's fine, because it is not pushing the games limits.

 

[Outlier]

Wait, what? Who said anything about illegal stats, and levels? Do you even know what we are arguing about hear?
It is different then taking a sport enhancing drug. A sport enhancing drug, would be like if I modified the ivs to over 31.

It was obviously an extreme example to show that I wouldn't care what you did if the game was single player only. Hacking to gain legal stats is still cheating! You're hacking the game to gain the most optimal stats possible. Whether you hack your pokemon or not I cant believe how many of you have the nerve to deny you're cheating. It's hilarious.

He never said that he has more responsibilities then you, that is just what you assumed he meant. Not once did he say that he has more important things to do then the rest of us, he just said that HE had no time to do it.

He outright said he had less time to play than 90% of the people here. LOL! He used his responsibilities as an excuse to hack the game, which is why we started going back and forth. There are plenty of people with commitments who play the game legit. You and him are not in that category. I wouldn't be half as interested in this debate if you guys didn't try to justify your own cheating.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

I do not intend to cheat. If I intended to cheat, then I would put max evs in every stat. If I intended to cheat I would give a Blaziken Horn Drill and No Guard, but no, I don't do this. I get Pokemon with legal ivs, evs, abilities, moves etc, and use them to give myself a chance to battle. To you, it may be cheating but it is a different kind of cheating. My idea of cheating is getting something that would otherwise be impossible to get. You are focusing on where it has come from. To me, I am not breaking any rules. The way I see it, if the game doesn't recognise them and stop me from battling, then it's fine, because it is not pushing the games limits.

To officials you are cheating. People do get banned for doing what you do. IT IS recognized as cheating. It doesn't matter if you see it that way or not. Your Pokemon are not legitimate as they were not caught and raised within the game, instead you cheated by having them made perfectly for you. It doesn't matter if they are still within normal parameters, you cheated them in so you did not have to get them the real way. Cheating isn't just making something with moves or abilities that it shouldn't have. You spend no time or effort making your Pokemon. It is recognized as an act of cheating. You cheat in your games whether you believe it or not.

....Can we not get into what is and isn't the "right way" to play? It's like telling people what their favorite color must be.

And like I said before, there are very, very few people who are willing to breed perfect teams for others.

There isn't any question about what the right way to play is. If you are hacking, a thing that is frowned upon by everyone who plays as well as the companies in charge, you are not playing the game correctly. The correct way to play is to do the work that is needed and not cheat. Its not the same thing as forcing an opinion. The games were made to be played without the use of external devices and GF and TPC have attempted to sue everyone that has made external hacks into the games. Now they threaten those who do so with a potential lawsuit as it does violate their rights. The games are made the way they are meant to be played. Using anything to make yourself better or give you an edge, even if the edge is to balance out your own pathetic chances, you are cheating and playing the game in a way it was not intended to be played.

 

[Nah]

It was obviously an extreme example to show that I wouldn't care what you did if the game was single player only. Hacking to gain legal stats is still cheating! You're hacking the game to gain the most optimal stats possible. Whether you hack your pokemon or not I cant believe how many of you have the nerve to deny you're cheating. It's hilarious.

I wouldn't be half as interested in this debate if you guys didn't try to justify your own cheating.

When almost everyone else has optimal stats, its hardly cheating when you're just saving time and only leveling the playing field.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm just playing devil's advocate (because its fun). I have all of 5 or 6 "hacked" Pokemon, and all I did was give them a few perfect IVs and the correct nature. The other 3 boxes worth of battle ready Pokemon I have were all bred and raised the normal way, and I have no need to hack any more Pokemon than I have already.

 

[Aeroblast]

Problem is, how would you know if a Pokemon is hacked just by looking at it, if it's not for the obvious illegal moves, abilities, EVs, etc.?

 

[Sceptile14]

It was obviously an extreme example to show that I wouldn't care what you did if the game was single player only. Hacking to gain legal stats is still cheating! You're hacking the game to gain the most optimal stats possible. Whether you hack your pokemon or not I cant believe how many of you have the nerve to deny you're cheating. It's hilarious.



He outright said he had less time to play than 90% of the people here. LOL! He used his responsibilities as an excuse to hack the game, which is why we started going back and forth. There are plenty of people with commitments who play the game legit. You and him are not in that category. I wouldn't be half as interested in this debate if you guys didn't try to justify your own cheating.

But... I'm not. I said that I use pokegen, that's all I have to admit. To you it is cheating, but to me, who hasn't got the time and patience to breed, it is an option. I am not denying that I am, in your opinion, cheating, I am just trying to tell you why I believe that it is justified. Have you heard of opinions? Sure, opinions can be wrong, but they should be respected. I believe that pokegen is something that is fine to use, which means that I believe that I am not a cheater.
I am not justifying my own cheating, because there is no cheating for me to justify.

 

[Megan]

There's actually an easy way for hackers to keep things alright:
- if you hack for yourself, because you want these Pokemon ingame, hack as much as you like, because nobody cares what you do with your game
- if you want to use hacked Pokemon (wheather they are legal or not is not important) and you know your opponent be honest enough to ask him if he allows you to use them
- if you want to use them in battles where you don't know your opponent, don't use them, because your opponent might have spend hours for them to breed and it would be unfair to mess with them, only because you used hacks

and just for a sidenote: everyone, who wants to battle, but hasn't time for breeding can still ask other people if they breed them the Pokemon they want. There's a whole subforum here where people can request Pokemon from breeders who have a lot more time to spend. :)

 

[Outlier]

When almost everyone else has optimal stats, its hardly cheating when you're just saving time and only leveling the playing field.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm just playing devil's advocate (because its fun). I have all of 5 or 6 "hacked" Pokemon, and all I did was give them a few perfect IVs and the correct nature. The other 3 boxes worth of battle ready Pokemon I have were all bred and raised the normal way, and I have no need to hack any more Pokemon than I have already.

No that's still cheating and you still cheated. For the record I'm not trying to shame you or anyone else who does it but come on this in denial crap is getting ridiculous.

 

[Nah]

There's actually an easy way for hackers to keep things alright:
- if you hack for yourself, because you want these Pokemon ingame, hack as much as you like, because nobody cares what you do with your game
- if you want to use hacked Pokemon (wheather they are legal or not is not important) and you know your opponent be honest enough to ask him if he allows you to use them
- if you want to use them in battles where you don't know your opponent, don't use them, because your opponent might have spend hours for them to breed and it would be unfair to mess with them, only because you used hacks

and just for a sidenote: everyone, who wants to battle, but hasn't time for breeding can still ask other people if they breed them the Pokemon they want. There's a whole subforum here where people can request Pokemon from breeders who have a lot more time to spend. :)

I really doubt that most hackers would follow your rules.

But there's a whole subforum here on PC where people breed competitive Pokemon for others? I didn't know that, and assumed that there'd be all of 3 people who would do that.

EDIT: Took a look at the Trade Plaza subforum. I had no idea there was a bunch of breeding/trade shop threads in there. I don't go there often, and when I do, I've always gone there via the link to the X/Y Quick Trade thread in my CP. But its nice to know now.

 

[Sceptile14]

To officials you are cheating. People do get banned for doing what you do. IT IS recognized as cheating. It doesn't matter if you see it that way or not. Your Pokemon are not legitimate as they were not caught and raised within the game, instead you cheated by having them made perfectly for you. It doesn't matter if they are still within normal parameters, you cheated them in so you did not have to get them the real way. Cheating isn't just making something with moves or abilities that it shouldn't have. You spend no time or effort making your Pokemon. It is recognized as an act of cheating. You cheat in your games whether you believe it or not.


There isn't any question about what the right way to play is. If you are hacking, a thing that is frowned upon by everyone who plays as well as the companies in charge, you are not playing the game correctly. The correct way to play is to do the work that is needed and not cheat. Its not the same thing as forcing an opinion. The games were made to be played without the use of external devices and GF and TPC have attempted to sue everyone that has made external hacks into the games. Now they threaten those who do so with a potential lawsuit as it does violate their rights. The games are made the way they are meant to be played. Using anything to make yourself better or give you an edge, even if the edge is to balance out your own pathetic chances, you are cheating and playing the game in a way it was not intended to be played.

But my argument isn't that creating Pokemon is recognised as right by everyone else, is it? It is my opinion that it should be allowed. Just because it is everyone elses view that it shouldn't be allowed, it doesn't mean that I have to think that. Just because gamefreak say it is cheating, doesn't mean that I have to believe it. They could be saying that because it is the majorities opinion. You can't say for certain that there reason for saying that it is cheating is necessarily correct.

 

[Nah]

No that's still cheating and you still cheated. For the record I'm not trying to shame you or anyone else who does it but come on this in denial crap is getting ridiculous.

Perhaps its because I'm not all that smart, but I don't understand why people have an issue with Pokegen/Pokesav Pokemon that have completely legal stats, moves, and abilities when it just seems like a time-saving option for those who don't have the patience to breed for hours or even days. Am I missing something here?

Oh, and I know you aren't trying to shame anyone or anything. I know you aren't like that.

 

[Outlier]

But... I'm not. I said that I use pokegen, that's all I have to admit.

Well congratulations you just admitted to cheating. Case closed.

To you it is cheating, but to me, who hasn't got the time and patience to breed, it is an option. I am not denying that I am, in your opinion, cheating, I am just trying to tell you why I believe that it is justified. Have you heard of opinions? Sure, opinions can be wrong, but they should be respected. I believe that pokegen is something that is fine to use, which means that I believe that I am not a cheater.
I am not justifying my own cheating, because there is no cheating for me to justify.

In regards to whether you're cheating or not it isn't even a matter of opinion. By using pokegen you are in fact cheating. By the rules and standards of the developers of the very game you play...you my friend...are cheating.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

But my argument isn't that creating Pokemon is recognised as right by everyone else, is it? It is my opinion that it should be allowed. Just because it is everyone elses view that it shouldn't be allowed, it doesn't mean that I have to think that. Just because gamefreak say it is cheating, doesn't mean that I have to believe it. They could be saying that because it is the majorities opinion. You can't say for certain that there reason for saying that it is cheating is necessarily correct.

Actually yes you do have to recognize it. In any sports, they'll condone certain acts as cheating. if you are caught doing such acts you are violating them and are cheating. It is recognized as cheating therefore you are cheating. Gamefreak created the games. If they say using an external device is cheating then it is cheating. We were not meant to create our own Pokemon through Apps, hacking hardware such as Action Replays, and through use of websites. It IS cheating. It also comes at a very high risk to your games.

Perhaps its because I'm not all that smart, but I don't understand why people have an issue with Pokegen/Pokesav Pokemon that have completely legal stats, moves, and abilities when it just seems like a time-saving option for those who don't have the patience to breed for hours or even days. Am I missing something here?

Oh, and I know you aren't trying to shame anyone or anything. I know you aren't like that.

My biggest issue with external devices is that they violently insert the code and can transfer fragmented data into your game in which you stand a chance to lose everything you did work for just by using it. A price to pay for cheating.

As for the creating, they did not earn those Pokemon, they should have to work for it, even if all the work they need to do is ask a friend to do the breeding for them. If they don't have the time to breed they shouldn't have the time to battle. If they make time to battle, then they can make time to breed. Time saving options should be use of in game items like the Egg Charm, Matsuda Method, IV hunting and in game items to pass on more wanted IVs. If you need more time saving options, find a friend that knows what they are doing, already has majority of the work finished and ask them to do it. Don't cheat.

 

[Sceptile14]

Well congratulations you just admitted to cheating. Case closed.




In regards to whether you're cheating or not it isn't even a matter of opinion. By using pokegen you are in fact cheating. By the rules and standards of the developers of the very game you play...you my friend...are cheating.

I didn't, did you read the rest of what I said? This whole argument is based on our opinions, and why we think we have the right to use pokegen. You think it is cheating and I respect that. However, don't try and tell me what to think. Just because they ban you if you use them in tournaments(which I don't even play coincidentally) Doesn't mean that I can't use them when playing with friends or with other people on battlespot, where there is nothing at stake accept for a record.
So no, it isn't case closed. My argument isn't that pokegen is or not cheating, it is whether it should be allowed. Next time, take into account what I said afterwards, because just picking out one, small part of the post isn't very smart. It makes it out as if you are purposely trying to ignore what I am trying to tell you -_-

 

[Xander Olivieri]

I didn't, did you read the rest of what I said? This whole argument is based on our opinions, and why we think we have the right to use pokegen. You think it is cheating and I respect that. However, don't try and tell me what to think. Just because they ban you if you use them in tournaments(which I don't even play coincidentally) Doesn't mean that I can't use them when playing with friends or with other people on battlespot, where there is nothing at stake accept for a record.
So no, it isn't case closed. My argument isn't that pokegen is or not cheating, it is whether it should be allowed. Next time, take into account what I said afterwards, because just picking out one, small part of the post isn't very smart. It makes it out as if you are purposely trying to ignore what I am trying to tell you -_-

Pokegen IS cheating, and actually they can block your game from Battle Spot as its regulated by TPC and Gamefreak. It is also the main way they are hosting tournaments now as well. So they can ban your use on online play if they suspect abnormal behavior with your game.

Cheating isn't allowed. Should never be allowed. Pokegen has been blacklisted by Gamefreak and TPC and will result in a ban if caught using Pokemon created from it. Its not a matter of opinion.

 

[RedWar]

I did read most of your posts. I just got sick of you acting like you're more entitled to hack a competitive game because of your responsibilities. As if you have far more commitments and they are far more important than anything the rest of us have to deal with. The fact that you assume that you're busier than 90% of the people here further proves my point. Even if you ARE busier than 90% of the people here it's arrogant to think that it makes it okay to hack and cheat in a competitive game.

Glad to see no more insults - aside from arrogance but my wife accuses of me of that so no arguments there.

I laid out my situation for people to see another take. there are plenty of people on here with a lot of time, I laid out what having no time looks like. As for my assuming I have more commitments than 90% of people on here, whether it's arrogant or not is neither here nor there. The odds are pretty good but that was never the point of my comments (though it does seem to be where your focus is), the POINT was to lay out that there are bound to be people who have limited time and that hacking is pretty much the only viable way to play the entertaining bit AND not spend entire months of our free time doing so.

There was no value judgement (I was not the originator of the claims of "value" on time in this thread), but an explaining of what another's argument may be. I prefer to see an argument from ALL sides. Interestingly this was my attempt, I have more middle ground (though still hacking to most) in that I have only hacked for either cloning or item purposes, I have never used Pokesv or others, nor have I ever changed a Pokes IVs, nature, etc.

But I prefer trying to see things from various angles. And in this case since "cheating" doesn't impact me in any meaningful way then I don't care. So I have to face a team of hacked Pokemon on the battle spot? As long as they are just hacked to still be game legal it's no different to facing any other team and in so in NO WAY changes my enjoyment of the game.

And that's key here. Does someone creating what would otherwise be legal Pokemon impact YOUR enjoyment of the game? If you prefer playing against substandard Pokemon, maybe. But if you are in the battle to "be the best", then for me it ADDS enjoyment knowing I am facing teams at the top of their abilities.

No, but again you seem to be using your personal situation to justify hacking your pokemon. I just didn't want you to think I was making light of your commitments just because I wasn't letting you off the hook for cheating.

Again I am trying to stress how other people can view the game. The question is, how do they/we play the game impact on YOUR game?

It's not dictating if I'm telling you not to do something that's ILLEGAL, especially if it affects me and other players (which it does whether you want to admit it or not). If we were in a weight lifting competition or competing in a marathon and I said "don't use steroids because it gives you an unfair advantage", would that be dictating?

Define illegal. Will I be arrested? No. Am I creating something that couldn't be created? No.

Is it tournament legal? Probably not, but that again is a different matter.