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6th Gen X/Y Third Version Speculation Thread

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mew_nani

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  • Right, Galactic did research energy. It'll be easy to add IE into remakes of the other generations actually...a little too easy... I mean Colress was also researching how to make pokémon stronger, and as I said Rocket was looking into the driver of evolution.


    Well if the stones were infused with "Infinite Energy" then it'll stand to reason that's why they don't run out. Btw isn't Victini said to produce infinite energy? In a BW remake they could make it so that Team Plasma wants Victini as a cheap source of IE.
    Btw there is also a theory that Deoxys was created by the Ultimate weapon hitting the space virus it originally was.

    Victini does produce infinite energy, but it's also said to bring victory to anyone that owns it so I doubt the idea of using it as a power source would be a primary reason for Team Plasma to seek it out in a remake, especially since their goals are to disarm every Trainer in Unova and then rule over it with the aid of a legendary Pokemon. They never were after infinite energy to start with.

    The idea that they never run out of power because they're infused with IE opens up some holes though. For Mega Stones to constantly be full of energy they would have to be ridiculously unstable, therefore making their use very dangerous, and it brings up the question of why they themselves were never researched as a power source. It also doesn't make much sense if you think about it, because they're not just simply radioactive rocks. Evolution stones do emit radiation that causes certain Pokemon to evolve if put in direct exposure to them, but it only has enough power for a single evolution; after that it runs out, which is likely why it vanishes when used. Mega Stones were made from being infused from purest lifeforce essentially, but should logically operate in a similar way, as they shouldn't just be able to put out an infinite, constant stream of lifeforce energy unless they were living things themselves. It's like finding a fuel source that is never used up no matter what. Even nuclear rods used in fission eventually burn out, and since very few if any Pokemon produce infinite amounts of IE, Mega Stones should eventually lose their evolution-inducing properties unless they were being refilled with each use.

    But then again Mega Stones are incredibly odd to say the least. Mewtwo was a recently created Pokemon, and yet there exists not one but two Mega Stones for it, both which were presumably created a very long time ago. And technically there shouldn't need to be any Trainer interaction at all, since if they're constantly emitting energy just holding the stone should be enough for a successful Mega Evolution attempt. How does the Key Stone work? Is the Trainer's own life energy activating the Mega Stone, being amplified through the Key Stone?
     

    WingsofBliss

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  • AZ using the Ultimate Weapon to bring back Floette and then to destroy both sides of the Kalos War, the scandal involving Sea Mauville, and then Zinnia insinuating that Mossdeep's plan for the meteor would be yet another mistake has made me think of something. I think Gen 6's overall theme is about human interference with nature. What if the next game involves Infinity Energy being the direct cause of whatever ecological disaster happens in Kalos that causes Zygarde to take action? What I mean is the evil team, be it Team Flare or somebody else, actually succeeds this time and you have to use Zygarde to return things to normal?

    Masuda's latest tweet is basically a reminder that Pokémon GetTV is airing its last episode this weekend. I'm only bringing this up because there's a slight possibility that they may announce something on the new show's premier next weekend. The timing almost feels right for it, don't you think?
     
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    mew_nani

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  • AZ using the Ultimate Weapon to bring back Floette and then to destroy both sides of the Kalos War, the scandal involving Sea Mauville, and then Zinnia insinuating that Mossdeep's plan for the meteor would be yet another mistake has made me think of something. I think Gen 6's overall theme is about human interference with nature. What if the next game involves Infinity Energy being the direct cause of whatever ecological disaster happens in Kalos that causes Zygarde to take action? What I mean is the evil team, be it Team Flare or somebody else, actually succeeds this time and you have to use Zygarde to return things to normal?

    I dunno if human interference with nature is the right way to put that. It's honestly a lot like FFVI/VII, what with extracting the lifeforce of Pokemon and using it for their own purposes. It's really disturbing, as it raises a lot of moral implications as to just where all this energy really came from. After all the only known source of infinite energy is living Pokemon and Mega Stones, and Mega Stones are so inundated with it it could almost be akin to materia or magicite; the compressed lifeforce of a once living Pokemon. I'm honestly suprised we haven't seen IE experiments on humans yet.

    If the next game does feature another incident concerning IE, the results could be catastrophic. Lysandre was using a legendary to power the ultimate weapon but it was implied even THAT wouldn't be enough to fuel it, as all the humans and Pokemon in the adjacent route were in danger of being drained and used as fuel. He was intending to completely exterminate all life on Earth with just one charge of that thing; if a similar weapon is made and fired off we could potentially see the end of all life as we know it.
     

    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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  • Victini does produce infinite energy, but it's also said to bring victory to anyone that owns it so I doubt the idea of using it as a power source would be a primary reason for Team Plasma to seek it out in a remake, especially since their goals are to disarm every Trainer in Unova and then rule over it with the aid of a legendary Pokemon. They never were after infinite energy to start with.

    The idea that they never run out of power because they're infused with IE opens up some holes though. For Mega Stones to constantly be full of energy they would have to be ridiculously unstable, therefore making their use very dangerous, and it brings up the question of why they themselves were never researched as a power source. It also doesn't make much sense if you think about it, because they're not just simply radioactive rocks. Evolution stones do emit radiation that causes certain Pokemon to evolve if put in direct exposure to them, but it only has enough power for a single evolution; after that it runs out, which is likely why it vanishes when used. Mega Stones were made from being infused from purest lifeforce essentially, but should logically operate in a similar way, as they shouldn't just be able to put out an infinite, constant stream of lifeforce energy unless they were living things themselves. It's like finding a fuel source that is never used up no matter what. Even nuclear rods used in fission eventually burn out, and since very few if any Pokemon produce infinite amounts of IE, Mega Stones should eventually lose their evolution-inducing properties unless they were being refilled with each use.

    But then again Mega Stones are incredibly odd to say the least. Mewtwo was a recently created Pokemon, and yet there exists not one but two Mega Stones for it, both which were presumably created a very long time ago. And technically there shouldn't need to be any Trainer interaction at all, since if they're constantly emitting energy just holding the stone should be enough for a successful Mega Evolution attempt. How does the Key Stone work? Is the Trainer's own life energy activating the Mega Stone, being amplified through the Key Stone?

    Not necessary as a power source on it's own, but one that can power a weapon like how they used Kyurem to power their ice ray. Also, don't forget that Ghetsis and other plasma members had interest in creating and/or capturing strong Pokemon as evidenced by the revival+upgrade of Genesect and the Plasma grunts persuing Victini in BW.

    I wonder about Mewtwo also. Mewtwo isn't the only issue...what about Aerodactyl? Aerodactyl died off in pre-historic times, not 3000 years ago so how could it have a Mega stone? Wait, I guess that the latter's Mega stone could be a fossil that was hit by the radiation of the ultimate weapon. As for the former...well someone earlier mentioned that Mewtwo's Mega stones could've been meant for Mew but were mutated in a similar manner as Mew's DNA was when creating Mewtwo. I am hoping that we'll see Mewite in Pokemon Z, or perhaps Mew has an organ similar to Rayquaza and a new signature move (Mewtwo gets all the goodies). Mew was the first coyprighted mon irc, so giving it a Mega for the 20th anniversary would be a nice homage to that.

    Speaking of organs I'll like to know why Rayquaza is the only one in it's trio with it's organ...also the lack of the Jade orb makes me think that Rayquaza's Mikado organ is a Jade orb that isn't unattached...now the implication for Groudon and Kyogre and their orbs become...well creepy...could the ancient Hoenn people have cut out the organs (which are the Red and Blue orbs) causing Groudon and Kyogre to evolve into weaker forms and forcing them to get their power from elsewhere? It's interesting how Groudon and Kyogre instatly go into their Primals at the start of battle...
     

    WingsofBliss

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  • If the next game does feature another incident concerning IE, the results could be catastrophic. Lysandre was using a legendary to power the ultimate weapon but it was implied even THAT wouldn't be enough to fuel it, as all the humans and Pokemon in the adjacent route were in danger of being drained and used as fuel. He was intending to completely exterminate all life on Earth with just one charge of that thing; if a similar weapon is made and fired off we could potentially see the end of all life as we know it.


    This has crossed my mind as well. Like I had said earlier, I'm assuming that Zygarde's 50% Forme would have been able to handle what would have happened in X and Y(I'm basing this off of the fact you find it in 50% Forme in Terminus Cave, it could have assumed that Forme in preparation for what Team Flare was about to unleash until the player character stepped in). Whatever happens in the next game, it would have to be bad enough for Zygarde to assume its Complete Forme, and something tells me it's going to go one step further than what took place in X/Y. It's almost scary thinking about it, coming from a Pokémon game.
     

    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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  • This has crossed my mind as well. Like I had said earlier, I'm assuming that Zygarde's 50% Forme would have been able to handle what would have happened in X and Y(I'm basing this off of the fact you find it in 50% Forme in Terminus Cave, it could have assumed that Forme in preparation for what Team Flare was about to unleash until the player character stepped in). Whatever happens in the next game, it would have to be bad enough for Zygarde to assume its Complete Forme, and something tells me it's going to go one step further than what took place in X/Y. It's almost scary thinking about it, coming from a Pokémon game.
    I think it might involve both Xerneas and Yvetal much like how both Dialga and Palkia getting caught in the Red chain and the Lake trio being unable to stop them unlike in D/P. Then Giratina came in to help them/itself. Or how Rayquaza only stepped in when Groudon and Kyogre were fighting one another opposed to just one causing weird weather. Zinnia mentions in ORAS that she helped the evil team in order to summon Rayquaza yet even one Primal wasn't enough, only the meteor pushed it into action. Now what's scary is what a battle between Primals would look like...in Emerald the weather was crazy and the balance broken so imagine that taken to an extreme.

    Now Team Flare might unbalance Kalos by making themselves choose who dies and who gains eternal life rather than allow nature and living things have a say in who lives or dies.
     

    mew_nani

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  • I think it might involve both Xerneas and Yvetal much like how both Dialga and Palkia getting caught in the Red chain and the Lake trio being unable to stop them unlike in D/P. Then Giratina came in to help them/itself. Or how Rayquaza only stepped in when Groudon and Kyogre were fighting one another opposed to just one causing weird weather. Zinnia mentions in ORAS that she helped the evil team in order to summon Rayquaza yet even one Primal wasn't enough, only the meteor pushed it into action. Now what's scary is what a battle between Primals would look like...in Emerald the weather was crazy and the balance broken so imagine that taken to an extreme.

    Now Team Flare might unbalance Kalos by making themselves choose who dies and who gains eternal life rather than allow nature and living things have a say in who lives or dies.
    I need to note two things here; the first being that Giratina didn't appear because Dialga and Palkia were in danger, and the second being Team Flare's goal wasn't simply to make themselves immortal or control who lived or died. Giratina in Platinum shows up because the Torn World was being distorted and thrown off balance as Cyrus was in the process of erasing all existence, and it drags him to its home out of sheer rage. It was seriously ticked off at him, and the distortion affecting both the real world and the Torn World is only resolved when you either capture or defeat Giratina, calming him down. Cyrus is also left there to rot.

    As for Team Flare, their entire goal was to committ mass genocide on every living creature, leaving only themselves alive. This was allegedly because humanity was warring and there wasn't enough resources for everyone and Lysandre's a freaking nut who can't see his organization is comprised of petty thieves that take over power plants and steal fossils. They didn't even get as far as Cyrus did.

    Now, concerning a battle between Xerneas and Yveltal... that certainly would throw Kalos off kilter, much like a battle between Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre would, but I don't think it would be as severe. Yveltal is a flying grim reaper that can casually absorb the life out of anything it comes across, but Xerneas has the power to override that if the movie is anything to go by. Of course, Xerneas is essentially a walking fountain of infinite energy.... It would definitely put the region at risk, though I don't know just how bad it would have to be for Zygarde to have to get involved. And as for Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre... good lord. A fight between them could easily destroy at least Sootopolis if not the entire region. The reason I say that is because while in Primal Reversion their respective abilities make the opposing element disappear. Both generate land and sea simply by moving around, and each one cancels out water and fire respectively. At best it would put the world in a constant cycle of deluge, blistering heat, and dense fog, and at worst...it would create a regional apocalypse. No wonder Rayquaza was worshipped.

    Come to think of it... what if Team Flare or whoever else powers up either Yveltal or Xerneas instead of simply draining it and using it as a fuel source? Imagine a souped up Yveltal running around draining everything in a 1 mile radius of life. Now THAT would cause problems severe enough for Zygarde to need to step in.
     

    shadowmoon522

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    So essentially Xerneas and Yveltal are living concepts of purest life and death, with the power to bestow unending life and to remove all life respectively, and Zygarde is the intermediary, a collection of sentinent cells that maintain a balance between life and death, intercedes if one overpowers the other, and is a representation of life as we know it, which is a mixture of both concepts.

    That actually makes a lot of sense considering that while Zygarde can nullify Xerneas and Yveltal's respective auras it still can't really overpower either on its own because each one is immune to one of its types. I guess once Zygarde has fully reunited itself and is in its Perfect Forme it can completely nullify Xerneas and Yveltal, but it likely doesn't have the ability to maintain that forme for very long as like the others it likely weakens.

    Man X and Y really dropped the ball here. We could have had a Pokemon game that had classic RPG elements and could have had a huge war between Xerneas and Yveltal with your party and Zygarde stopping them. We could have had the best Pokemon game ever. Instead we got the same plot we got with Diamond and Pearl and Lysandre Stu.



    Just what is Infinity Energy? I never got ORAS or viewed the Delta Episode so my knowledge of it is next to nil. Does it involve AZ's apocalypse weapon in any way? That was powered by either Xerneas or Yveltal, as Lysandre attempts to harness them to power the weapon.
    its as it sounds, an endless supply of energy. normally energy gets burned up with use.
    also theres a difference between death & destruction(i'm pretty sure i stated this somewhere else on this thread)
    death is the permanent end of something destruction is damage done to something.
    death can be the result of destruction, but destruction itself is not death.
    death is limited to living beings, but destruction can be applied to everything.
    life is the point between birth & death or in the case of xerneas its energy that sustains the existence of living being.
    it makes me wonder if those zygarde cells are the pokemon equivalent to this little alien
    X/Y Third Version Speculation Thread

    and before you jump to the conclusion that that's impossible due to the nature of kyubey, remember this:
    kyubey is a guardian, it's only goal was to protect the universe from entropy in the most efficient ways possible.
    and there are many of them, they all seem to have a hive mind & shared memory & more then likely have a few cores somewhere away from all the dangers.
    so the zygarde cels might function in a similar manor, each protecting the environment separate from the core.
    why else would they be scattered around like they seem to be? i'm not saying their gonna go & turn teenage girls into sacrifices by granting a wish in exchange for their souls, there are albino espurrs for that job
    X/Y Third Version Speculation Thread

    now that i think about, mega evolution seems to give off energy in a similar manor to magical girl & witch transformations in Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
    also...
    X/Y Third Version Speculation Thread

    good example, even though it was made by someone who did not grasp the true nature of kyubey.
    its only horrible when you try to apply your ideals, morals & emotions to a creature of pure logic...
     

    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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  • I need to note two things here; the first being that Giratina didn't appear because Dialga and Palkia were in danger, and the second being Team Flare's goal wasn't simply to make themselves immortal or control who lived or died. Giratina in Platinum shows up because the Torn World was being distorted and thrown off balance as Cyrus was in the process of erasing all existence, and it drags him to its home out of sheer rage. It was seriously ticked off at him, and the distortion affecting both the real world and the Torn World is only resolved when you either capture or defeat Giratina, calming him down. Cyrus is also left there to rot.

    As for Team Flare, their entire goal was to committ mass genocide on every living creature, leaving only themselves alive. This was allegedly because humanity was warring and there wasn't enough resources for everyone and Lysandre's a freaking nut who can't see his organization is comprised of petty thieves that take over power plants and steal fossils. They didn't even get as far as Cyrus did.

    Now, concerning a battle between Xerneas and Yveltal... that certainly would throw Kalos off kilter, much like a battle between Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre would, but I don't think it would be as severe. Yveltal is a flying grim reaper that can casually absorb the life out of anything it comes across, but Xerneas has the power to override that if the movie is anything to go by. Of course, Xerneas is essentially a walking fountain of infinite energy.... It would definitely put the region at risk, though I don't know just how bad it would have to be for Zygarde to have to get involved. And as for Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre... good lord. A fight between them could easily destroy at least Sootopolis if not the entire region. The reason I say that is because while in Primal Reversion their respective abilities make the opposing element disappear. Both generate land and sea simply by moving around, and each one cancels out water and fire respectively. At best it would put the world in a constant cycle of deluge, blistering heat, and dense fog, and at worst...it would create a regional apocalypse. No wonder Rayquaza was worshipped.

    Come to think of it... what if Team Flare or whoever else powers up either Yveltal or Xerneas instead of simply draining it and using it as a fuel source? Imagine a souped up Yveltal running around draining everything in a 1 mile radius of life. Now THAT would cause problems severe enough for Zygarde to need to step in.

    Mega Xerneas and Mega Yvetal? Or maybe perfect Xerneas and Perfect Yvetal? They had energy drained from them by Team Flare so perhaps that isn't their full power/true form?
     

    WingsofBliss

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  • I'm curious as to what kind of information we'll be getting next month? Because so far, nothing has been said about Xerneas and Yveltal appearing alongside Zygarde in the upcoming XY&Z anime. I imagine they will, but it's interesting that they haven't outright said anything other than that Zygarde Complete Forme surpasses both of them in power.
     

    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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  • I'm curious as to what kind of information we'll be getting next month? Because so far, nothing has been said about Xerneas and Yveltal appearing alongside Zygarde in the upcoming XY&Z anime. I imagine they will, but it's interesting that they haven't outright said anything other than that Zygarde Complete Forme surpasses both of them in power.

    There might be spoilers if they showed them off, as it'll hint to their role. I wonder if XY&Z will end up being similar to the first movie of this generation much like how Groudon and Kyogre's battle in ME episode 3 is similar to their battle during the Advance saga (except their ME battle had Mega Rayquaza) and the Hoopa movie battle before the trio was sucked in by Hoopa.
     

    WingsofBliss

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  • If we do get the generic 3rd version, I hope they do the Tower of Mastery arc differently. Instead of giving us a Lucario that barely knows us but yet automatically determines wer're the Chosen One, give the Kalos Starters a Mega Evolution instead and center it around them. Mega Evolution is supposed to be about the strong bond between us and our Pokemon, so I think that the Tower of Mastery arc would have made more sense and added weight to it had it been our Starter Pokemon. Otherwise, with how it is in X/Y, it comes off as very Marty Stu/Mary Sue. I'm hoping that the Ash-Geninja is a hint towards that change, even though I think that particular Greninja Forme is going to be anime-exclusive.
     
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    Thought this theory was interesting, thought I'd post it here and see what everyone's thoughts are.

    If this were to happen--Kalos and Unova being connected together--it would definitely be amazing, but it likely won't. I remember them saying that they're aiming to try something new and unexpected this time around, and having two regions in a game isn't precisely new.
     

    mew_nani

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  • If we do get the generic 3rd version, I hope they do the Tower of Mastery arc differently. Instead of giving us a Lucario that barely knows us but yet automatically determines wer're the Chosen One, give the Kalos Starters a Mega Evolution instead and center it around them. Mega Evolution is supposed to be about the strong bond between us and our Pokemon, so I think that the Tower of Mastery arc would have made more sense and added weight to it had it been our Starter Pokemon. Otherwise, with how it is in X/Y, it comes off as very Marty Stu/Mary Sue. I'm hoping that the Ash-Geninja is a hint towards that change, even though I think that particular Greninja Forme is going to be anime-exclusive.

    I hope a LOT of things are changed around if we get a third version, but I'm not really holding my breath. Kalos had the most rushed and most poorly thought out storyline out of all of them, and you getting a free Lucario with almost no reason or foreshadowing behind it is just one of the things wrong with X and Y's story. Not to mention it wasn't really an "arc" per se... it just kinda happened. Sorta like AZ; he just kinda shows up, gives us a huge bit of lore which is arguably the best part of the game and... just kinda vanishes until we beat the Elite Four. Plot's rife with holes and one scene wonders that don't really mean much.

    You getting a Lucario of all things is also a copout gameplay wise, since you can catch a Riolu and evolve it way before you get access to Mega Evolution. They should have given us a Pokemon that's much harder to get, and one that isn't gotten through friendship evolution.
     

    shadowmoon522

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    It's sure awfully quiet, Serebii hasn't even posted anything for yesterday(Wednesday). It's almost the calm before Hurricane Zygarde makes landfall on the fandom.
    if at all, we might be waiting til the next E3 only to be told it ain't coming til some time late 2017
     
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