Ferguson, Missouri, in unrest after shooting of unarmed teenager

I do listen to the voices of the people in Ferguson, which is why I completely agree with them. My point is that the violence that has happened, including the looting, is detrimental to their cause. I do not agree with the reaction of the police, nor do I think it is justified, however, I firmly believe that furthering violence and destruction will only give these *******s ammunition. Even if they are a minority of the protest they are a minority that people care about. They are the minority which will fuel further racial tension and they are the minority which will make things worse.

The reason why I consistently bring up Detroit is because the same **** happened back in 1967 there and it completely destroyed the city and make racial tensions even worse than they were before, and it wasn't until people put their guard down that things started improving slightly. That's almost 50 years of destruction to one of the biggest cities in the United States. History is destined to repeat itself if these people are not recognized and stopped. To not listen to history because they are "justified" or it's not all of the protesters is to ignore the very real and very serious consequences of what will happen. And I don't mean from the police - I mean being called out internally by the protesters themselves.

STOP.


Ignoring these incidents is to not listen to the voices of those in Ferguson yourself.

Souces:

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"Hours later, after a midnight curfew was in place and the streets were largely quiet, Captain Ron Johnson told reporters that the aggressive response came after multiple shootings — some aimed at police — Molotov cocktails and looting had occurred in what he claimed was an orchestrated effort "designed to damage property, hurt people and provoke a response." [...] There were multiple incidents of vandalism and looting over a three hour period that began around 8pm local time. Johnson said multiple businesses including a Family Dollar Store, a pizza shop and a storage office were looted. A McDonald's restaurant was overrun by protesters, he said, and employees had barricaded themselves in a store room when police arrived. Another convenience store was ablaze. "

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Exactly. Its much like what happens at every protest. Its never going to work unless you limit the aggression. You want to lash out, do it by voice, not by destroying private property. Anyway, OMFG at this clusterbomb of obscured coverage. One source reporting Marijuana use, another leaking the department store footage, its all just to try and save face for the disgusting act of violence used against a human being.

Oryx said:

So the "unfortunate incident" that you're trying to hint will happen again is a police officer somehow knowing that this person on the street was a rioter and shooting them?

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Yes, because the police are psychic now.

Obviously not. Daigonite alludes tto my original point multiple times in his posts. I do not feel the need to repeat what has already been addressed.

Limerent said:

Allegedly he assaulted the police officer and tried to grab his gun. If that's what happened it's not murder, it's self defence. It's well documented that non-lethal options don't always work when a target is running on adrenaline or drugs, so yes, sometimes it is necessary to aim for vital points and kill someone to defend yourself. Sad but true. Police should always have the ability to take a life to protect themselves and the populace. It should be a last resort but because non-lethal options aren't foolproof sometimes it has to be used.

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Here's a picture of the autopsy.



They didn't have access to his clothing while performing it, but no gun residue was found on his body. They're going to perform an examination on his clothes to verify that, but because of that, it suggests that this wasn't close range. But if he were to have assaulted the police officer and grabbed his gun, he would have had residue on his hands and he didn't.

daigonite said:

words

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Okay so I don't want to sound rude but most of this is only vaguely disagreeing with me or just being weirdly obtuse about stuff and I don't have the time to respond to it all. Just a few points:

1) I am sooo over anti-sj people tbh so I'm going to ignore the little digs at tumblr but... I'm not really using tumblr as a source? I'm just linking to posts that summarise and condense the points better than I can. Something being posted to social media by eyewitnesses doesn't make it any less real lol so I don't see the problem.

2) Why do you keep focusing on the so called violent protests? You still haven't shown any evidence of these protests being violent (the looters are not protesters and there's tons of evidence of the protesters being peaceful and trying to stop the looters) so I don't know why you keep bringing it up. None of the police have any injuries either. Honestly it kind of shows where your priorities are when you complain about "violent" protesters when the police are literally breaking the law.

Oryx said:

Edit: Sorry I edited this twice and bumped your notification count

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Oh my god is this a thing?? Lmao. Sorry Phantom.

Mr. Downstairs said:

Here's a picture of the autopsy.


They didn't have access to his clothing while performing it, but no gun residue was found on his body. They're going to perform an examination on his clothes to verify that, but because of that, it suggests that this wasn't close range. But if he were to have assaulted the police officer and grabbed his gun, he would have had residue on his hands and he didn't.

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Just gonna throw onto this that multiple eye witness accounts say that Brown never assaulted the cop and they all tell the same story.

1) I am sooo over anti-sj people tbh so I'm going to ignore the little digs at tumblr but... I'm not really using tumblr as a source? I'm just linking to posts that summarise and condense the points better than I can. Something being posted to social media by eyewitnesses doesn't make it any less real lol so I don't see the problem.

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wow aren't you the arrogant one

I would be much more willing to accept those sources if they were actually written by eyewitnesses, like you claim. But they're not. So why even post them? They're not relevant and they read more like a fear mongering campaign. One of your "this" links in your post is literally some white guy whining about how terrible "white privilege" is, eeriely sounding like an unpolished rough draft of a final essay for Soc 101. How is that even relevant (hilariously, if you really want to take the SJW perspective, posting that still doesn't make sense because it's a white guy talking about how he knows everything about how privileged he is - shouldn't it be everyone else trying to make him "check his privilege"?) For the third time I must say that this **** is not an armchair science, you cannot just act like you know everything because you took a soc 101 class in high school.

Then, you cleverly avoid addressing the fact that there are various cultures across the United States and brushing them all with the same racial tension that is found in Ferguson is doing everyone else a disservice. It's important for things to get out there. It is a disservice to claim that everywhere is the same. This is exactly what these turds on various blogging media, who don't even know anyone from the area and hop on it to push their own political agenda, are doing. They don't give a **** about other people's experiences, they give a **** about whining about their problems and using the plights of others to go over it.

You might ask - what makes me any different? I actually read what everyone is saying. I'm not going to pick and choose the things that seem more relevant to me and my opinion. Instead of actively seeking for evidence to support my conclusions, I make my conclusions based on the evidence that I have. The way that many of these social justice bloggers are acting about this situation replicates how Young-Earth Creationists act when pressed to prove their side.

Finally, you can't just preach to the choir and expect progress to be made. Some of the most bat**** insane things go through on social media sites because people refuse to try other perspectives. It's called Devil's Advocate and many social media blogging sites are about as good at it as a penguin is at being a homing pigeon. The prominent lack of self regulation is why I avoid the hell out of that garbage, just like I avoid the hell out of overly conservative websites as well. You can't just simply post idealistic garbage and avoid any and all criticisms to them just because you think you're right - the only way to progress is to question your own possible mistakes and find things you may have missed, by self introspection. The movement as a whole, like those of overly conservative movements, is incredibly vain and loaded with hubris, not to mention dubious statistics and circular citations.

And while I would say that I digress, it is this very lack of willingness to introspect possible flaws that is causing this issue to blow out of proportion even more - people unwilling to call out the violent protesters because they believe they have "a good reason", ignoring the consequences of such actions because "they're mad".

This ******** is extremely toxic.

2) Why do you keep focusing on the so called violent protests? You still haven't shown any evidence of these protests being violent (the looters are not protesters and there's tons of evidence of the protesters being peaceful and trying to stop the looters) so I don't know why you keep bringing it up. None of the police have any injuries either. Honestly it kind of shows where your priorities are when you complain about "violent" protesters when the police are literally breaking the law.

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Because the violent protesters are the ones that people are going to look at, not the peaceful ones. They are the ones getting attention. I have stated multiple times that I understand that most protesters are not violent, but that does not mean that they are the ones who people care about the most. For the third time, I bring up the Detroit riots of 1967 because many people in the city faced problems and some even protested peacefully, but nobody remembers those - they remember the violence, and the violence is what triggered one of the best cities in the nation to crumble to a state that it has not recovered from almost 50 years later. It is every bit as important as I make it out to be because the violence is what will have the long lasting consequences. A cautionary tale that many people avoid reading, because they are too caught up in their own "justifications" for anger.

Justification is one thing. Actions are another.

Also, in my last post, I linked some articles showing that there are indeed violence induced by the protesters. Just because you refuse to look at the fact that there is indeed violence because of your own preconceived notions about how innocent everyone is. I do not believe that the majority of the protests are fueled by violence, but those that are are destroying their cause from the inside out and it needs to stop.

'Merica.
'MERICA.
GFDI 'MERICA.
You make me ashamed to live here sometimes.
This is police brutality on a whole new level, and it's ****ed up.
This is a grotesque, evil world we live in.

HotChocletyQuilava said:

'Merica.
'MERICA.
GFDI 'MERICA.
You make me ashamed to live here sometimes.
This is police brutality on a whole new level, and it's ****ed up.
This is a grotesque, evil world we live in.

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Must've not been around the 60's. . .

Grey Wind said:

Oh my god is this a thing?? Lmao. Sorry Phantom.

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That would explain the ten or so notifications, lol.

Also, I'm a she, thank you.

Look, I know that me saying that I'm not racist is going to make me look racist, no matter how I put it, and now that I've been labeled as such anything I say will be put against me. Sucks huh? Believe it or not, that's being racist against whites.

Racism against whites does exist, I see it quite often. Though it is often different, in my experience, than it is for those of color. Often we're portrayed as villains, to be a bit harsh, but often that's how it feels.

I worked in law enforcement in some capacity my entire life pretty much. From being a police explorer, to working in security, to be a reserve officer.

But I will say this, I never said anything besides me confirming I wasn't saying anything. Until we get complete and official stances from every group needed to find out what the fluff really happened, I'm not passing judgment.

Should this officer be on paid leave? No, I do not think so.

Should he have shot Brown? As a person trained from the age of 14 to be a cop, no. The situation as I understand it did not call for lethal force. Even if Brown did go for his gun at one point, Brown obviously failed in trying to get it. There were a dozen more ways he could have handled it. If I were in that situation, I would have used my taser, if he was charging me. If he wasn't charging me but ignoring my orders to give ID or something like that, I'd have called for backup.

But I don't know the whole situation, no one really does. Not completely.

Does that mean that people should start looting their communities? No.

Does that mean people should be violent against all police because of the actions of one? No.

All in all, this situation, even the peaceful protests, could have been handled better.

My post sounded racist because I'm defending police. Not the Ferguson police, they screwed up far too much at this point.

One of my close friends is a retired deputy, actually most of my friends are cops but this guy is like a mentor to me, he was on the force for thirty years. Recently, he had to drop many, many of his facebook friends because he was being harassed online because of what's happening in Ferguson. This officer has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. It's just the fact that he's a cop. He's worried now that people will start messing with him in real life. This guy is literally one of the sweetest people I know. He wasn't even a beat cop for the last bit of his service, no, he worked with kids. Nowadays he just tends to his house in the country, taking care of his horses for local rodeos and playing in his band.

Here's something he said when he dropped everyone: 'Most of the US population is blissfully unaware that there is war of misinformation being directed towards government officials in the US at this time. The lies come from the far right, the left and some those who don't fit into the standard categories. The most frequent target of the resentment these lies cause are the front line police. We are accessible and easy to hate. We bear the brunt of resentment for laws and policies that we have no more control over than any other voter, probably less as even our off duty behavior and involvement is regulated by department policy. Police deaths from shootings are up 65% according to the last information I read.

I have been involved in many activities, and have worked a number of different jobs but I have been, and will always be, a cop, a member of the Thin Blue Line. I accept others for who they are. I don't care one bit about your gender, race, occupation, sexual preference or religious choices. If you are decent to others and do not attack me or others in the Thin Blue Line I have no issue with you. If you choose to repost lies and other attacks on the police then you attack me personally.

In the recent case of Michael Brown the evidence is showing that he was breaking the law and engaging in attacks on others. Whether or not the use of force is ruled as justified after the FBI investigation nothing justifies the riots and attacks on police and civilians that occurred after the crime.

Some people will say, but *name*, you are clearly not considering the socio-economic factors that cause these reactions. ********. I went to school, so did every cop in this state. We know the theory, we wrote elegant and thoughtful papers on it. We discussed it at our social functions. Hell some of it sounded like it might be true. But once we gain experience in the system we know how it really works and we KNOW that people have a CHOICE every damn time and background is not an excuse for violent crime.

In a recent officer death (I will not include the name because I respect his sacrifice)
((He's referring to a local officer that was killed by a guy during a traffic stop, the guy's only reason for killing the officer? "Fluff the police." That was all he said.))I saw comments on posts to honor that officer that were backhanded insults to police everywhere. I will paraphrase here: It is terrible what happened to that officer, he seems like a nice guy but this one time I was stopped by a cop who was mean. Not only do we see this stuff on social media but it happens constantly to us in our lives. Everybody wants to tell you their bad cop story.'

So that's just what a cop has to say. And he goes on to say that he's defending the people that defended him. Police are a tight knit group. Police stick together.

Police brutality is a thing, but it should be the officers that are engaged in such violence that should get their dues. Not all police. You don't blame all for the actions of some.

Phantom said:

Look, I know that me saying that I'm not racist is going to make me look racist, no matter how I put it, and now that I've been labeled as such anything I say will be put against me. Sucks huh? Believe it or not, that's being racist against whites.

Racism against whites does exist, I see it quite often. Though it is often different, in my experience, than it is for those of color. Often we're portrayed as villains, to be a bit harsh, but often that's how it feels.

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This is... stupid, to be frank. Calling out someone on their racism isn't being "racist towards whites" and just because you think you're being portrayed as a villain doesn't mean that it's true and doesn't mean that it's an issue worth talking about. White people as an institution and the racism that comes from it is what people hate, not an individual person being white.

The biggest problem with this is that you're comparing your hurt feelings to the systematic oppression of an entire race. It's dumb and insensitive and calling it racism implies that you getting your feelings hurt is on the same level as what PoC go through daily. Like SERIOUSLY, black get murdered by the police and mocked in the media among other things, and you think getting called racist is a problem?

Getting called racist? Examine your words and actions and learn and grow from it instead of feeling sorry for yourself.

But I will say this, I never said anything besides me confirming I wasn't saying anything.

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You... did, actually:

[The protesters] are going into restricted areas and not listening to the police. They are attacking officers and looting. They are harassing locals and impeding everyday life. They are invading the rights of others. So no, this 'protesting' of theirs isn't protesting. It's a wannabe riot that I give kudos to the police for keeping it in check as they have. Things could be a lot worse. They responded well.

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[The protesters] did this to themselves.

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You've changed your tune quite a bit in this post.

Does that mean that people should start looting their communities? No.

Does that mean people should be violent against all police because of the actions of one? No.

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None of the protesters are looting or being violent towards the police. I don't know why people keep bringing this up (it's actually kind of telling that people keep being like "yeah i guess the police are bad... but you know, the protesters shouldn't be violent" when the protesters are anything but and the police are literally breaking the law).

In the recent case of Michael Brown the evidence is showing that he was breaking the law and engaging in attacks on others. Whether or not the use of force is ruled as justified after the FBI investigation nothing justifies the riots and attacks on police and civilians that occurred after the crime.

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No it's not? The store owners confirmed that he never robbed the store, the eyewitnesses all say that all he did was break free from the choke hold Wilson had on him, the autopsy shows that he was surrendering when he was shot. He was innocent.

I don't really care about how the police officers feel and it's kind of an irrelevant reply to my post so I'm not going to respond there, sorry.

Grey Wind said:

This is... stupid, to be frank. Calling out someone on their racism isn't being "racist towards whites" and just because you think you're being portrayed as a villain doesn't mean that it's true and doesn't mean that it's an issue worth talking about. White people as an institution and the racism that comes from it is what people hate, not an individual person being white.

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So wait, me, say, kicking out a black person, not because they're black, but because they're drunk and can't be on property as per policy... but they turn around and say I'm only kicking them out because they're black... that's not racist toward me, the white person? Assuming I'm doing something solely based on my skin color alone? Pretty sure that's racism, mate.

Grey Wind said:

The biggest problem with this is that you're comparing your hurt feelings to the systematic oppression of an entire race. It's dumb and insensitive and calling it racism implies that you getting your feelings hurt is on the same level as what PoC go through daily. Like SERIOUSLY, black get murdered by the police and mocked in the media among other things, and you think getting called racist is a problem?

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Wakeup call, mate, it happens to every race, not just black people.

Grey Wind said:

Getting called racist? Examine your words and actions and learn and grow from it instead of feeling sorry for yourself.

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Never said I felt sorry for myself.

Grey Wind said:

None of the protesters are looting or being violent towards the police. I don't know why people keep bringing this up (it's actually kind of telling that people keep being like "yeah i guess the police are bad... but you know, the protesters shouldn't be violent" when the protesters are anything but and the police are literally breaking the law).

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Really? Reports of them throwing bottles and getting into physical confrontations with officers who try to get them to stay behind the line, that's peaceful? That's a lack of violence?

Grey Wind said:

I don't really care about how the police officers feel and it's kind of an irrelevant reply to my post so I'm not going to respond there, sorry.

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This may come as a shock to your ego, but the entire post wasn't for you.

Also I gave kudos to the police because at that point the riots and looting had been decently maintained, since then it's turned into a war zone.

Phantom said:

So wait, me, say, kicking out a black person, not because they're black, but because they're drunk and can't be on property as per policy... but they turn around and say I'm only kicking them out because they're black... that's not racist toward me, the white person? Assuming I'm doing something solely based on my skin color alone? Pretty sure that's racism, mate.

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I don't think you understand racism at all. It's not about your ethnicity, it's about the ethnicity of the other person. This is evidenced by the fact that black people can be racist towards other minorities (and even other black people) as well - it's a cultural thing, not a skin tone thing.

When people speak about racism, they're talking about the systematic and cultural items in place that create subconscious and conscious discrimination against ethnic minorities. Not someone accusing them of something and being wrong. You get to walk away from that confrontation and be more likely to get a job over them, less likely to get arrested, more likely if you are a victim of a crime to have your crime investigated, less likely to get pulled over, more likely to have your culture respected as default, more likely to be treated as an individual instead of a part of a homogeneous group, etc.

edit: One of my friends who's a reporter went there the other day. She was screamed at by the police as she stood there with nothing more than a camera, told that she couldn't film anything and she had to separate from the protesters. They were peaceful. They were tear gassed. Just trying to keep those peaceful protesters and journalists under control, you know? We can't have anyone documenting it or anything.

Phantom said:

So wait, me, say, kicking out a black person, not because they're black, but because they're drunk and can't be on property as per policy... but they turn around and say I'm only kicking them out because they're black... that's not racist toward me, the white person? Assuming I'm doing something solely based on my skin color alone? Pretty sure that's racism, mate.

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It's not. In that hypothetical situation (which... would probably never happen, btw, and I'm sure that the vast majority of black people would disagree with someone doing that), you're race has nothing to do with it. It's kind of clear that you don't understand what racism is at all and this actually describes it pretty well:

It's the systematic oppression of people who did not set up the system of oppression (white people vs. every other poc) not just institutionalized but embedded into every fabric of this society from the education system, justice system, media, etc. The oppressors begin to spread their hatred through propaganda, legislation, and stereotypes which begin to affect even the oppressed who learn to hate themselves and despise themselves and their culture. The oppressors lead the destruction of their lands, the genocide of their people, enslavement, low wealth and social standings among others because of the stereotypes that the oppressor has perpetuated. There's three different types:

Casual: The little jokes about race that are subtle and/or reflected in everyday life.
Institutional: Enacted by the government, media, or any industry with laws or lack of representation because of any internalized/externalized racial bias.
Societal: Racism that society is comfortable with and doesnt seem to want to change because of the racist ideals set in place (stop and frisk, stand your ground, etc.) society holds these views close.

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Do you see why you complaining about being called racist is stupid? I'm honestly baffled at how you can say that being called out on your racism is a form of racism... like people are bullied and looked down upon and MURDERED for being black and then you sit there and say that being called out on posting racist stuff is a form of racism and we should care about it. Get over yourself lol.

And you can't be racist towards white people. White people have benefited from privilege for hundreds of years (apartheid favoured whites, white people were never enslaved by black people, white people were never mass lynched for being white etc. etc.) and from the article above it's clear that they still do. You can't just suddenly turn around and say that white people face racism because they started and benefit from the system. Black people can be prejudiced, but like Oryx said, you still get to walk away from that and benefit from the privileges white people have.

Wakeup call, mate, it happens to every race, not just black people.

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No it doesn't. I linked this article before and I'm gonna quote this paragraph again:

Did you know that people with black-sounding names are 50% less likely to be called back for an interview than people with identical resumes but white-sounding names? Or that while black youth are less likely to abuse drugs or alcohol than white youth, they are 10 times more likely to be sent to prison for drug offenses than are whites? Blacks receive higher sentences than whites for the same crimes, and receive higher penalties when the victims are white than when the victims are other African Americans. In one year, 80% of those sentenced for crack cocaine offenses were black while less than 1/3 of crack cocaine users were black. One in three black men can expect to spend time in prison at some point in their lives. Whites are more likely to pull a trigger on a black assailant than a white one.

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Like are you seriously saying that white people face the exact same issues that black people face...

Really? Reports of them throwing bottles and getting into physical confrontations with officers who try to get them to stay behind the line, that's peaceful? That's a lack of violence?

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The police were WAY out of line. Of course they're going to resists arrest when they're getting tear gassed and the police come out with ****ing riot gear and tanks. All of the eyewitnesses report that the protests were peaceful and that the police caused any violence (and also that the people throwing molotovs were white and not involved in the protests). I'm also gonna throw out that no police officer has been injured yet.

Grey Wind said:

Do you see why you complaining about being called racist is stupid? I'm honestly baffled at how you can say that being called out on your racism is a form of racism... like people are bullied and looked down upon and MURDERED for being black and then you sit there and say that being called out on posting racist stuff is a form of racism and we should care about it. Get over yourself lol.

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It's stupid to complain and not be okay with being falsely identified as a racist by someone?

I admit I didn't read Phantom's post, but I don't really understand your point in this quote and it may relate to their post in particular, but it sounds like a general statement to me. And yeah, people are bullied and looked down at and murdered for being black, so why would people want to be associated with being one of those people when they are not?

And you can't be racist towards white people. White people have benefited from privilege for hundreds of years (apartheid favoured whites, white people were never enslaved by black people, white people were never mass lynched for being white etc. etc.) and from the article above it's clear that they still do. You can't just suddenly turn around and say that white people face racism because they started and benefit from the system. Black people can be prejudiced, but like Oryx said, you still get to walk away from that and benefit from the privileges white people have.

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I mostly agree with you, but racism exists for all races. I do agree with what you said about most of it just being prejudice and I think a lot more stems from the oppression they faced and their anger towards that in general so black people are quick to defend themselves towards whites for that reason, but there are still people who find their race is superior to whites just like there are whites that think that their race is superior to others. Racism is a frame of thought.

Mr. Downstairs said:

It's stupid to complain and not be okay with being falsely identified as a racist by someone?

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No? It's stupid to call being called out on your racism racism because you're comparing the systematic oppression of a racial group to something minor. It's trivialising the experiences poc by trying to insinuate that one off cases of prejudice are somehow equivalent to the struggles of minorities. This is Phantom's original quote:

Phantom said:

Look, I know that me saying that I'm not racist is going to make me look racist, no matter how I put it, and now that I've been labeled as such anything I say will be put against me. Sucks huh? Believe it or not, that's being racist against whites.

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Black people (and other racial minorities) are being racially profiled, being stripped of basic human rights, being denied jobs, being treated as less than human and being seen as suspect by default.

Phantom gets called racist.

Warsmith said:

Listen here. There are worse things than this Missouri mess. Ignore this, and move on. No need to fling yourselves into the fray of a full fledged racism debate. This is a small thing, and very few people have been injured or killed. Again my example of the two riots in LA remain the key spokesman for bad rioting. The riots were instigated over non-life ending events.

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Small thing? These events should be raising serious questions about police brutality and racial profiling, not just be written off as black people "playing the race card". A teenager was MURDERED for no reason, his body left in the street for hours, and when his community protests peacefully the police react as if they're in the middle of a war. This is not "something small" and it's incredibly insensitive of you to try and label it as such when you don't know what these people are going through or how they feel.

I mean seriously, this sort of stuff happens to black people all the time, and you (a white person) are going to sit there and say that it "doesn't matter".

. . . and let's be honest, the kid was a suspect for armed robbery! Are we all forgetting that, or is it okay to just lay the all the blame at the foot of the officer responsible?

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He wasn't a suspect in an armed robbery. The store owners where the robbery supposedly took place have confirmed that nothing happened and that they never reported anything. Brown was stopped for jaywalking, according to the police, and was shot while surrendering (the bullets entered his arms as if they were raised and all six+ entered downwards as if he was on his knees). Eyewitnesses (who all have the same story) say that he was pulled towards the car window, got shot, broke free, ran, got shot at again and surrendered, and was shot again.

I want to thank the officers for keeping this as calm as possible. So far, to my knowledge, there have been no fatalities. While this could change, it's still a nice small number.

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Are you kidding me? Calm? You call tear gassing children and peaceful protesters calm? Bringing out tanks, dogs, assault rifles and riot gear is calm? Making mass arrests of the media and civilians for no reason is calm? If you seriously think that the police in Ferguson are handling this well then I seriously do not know what to tell you.

Grey Wind said:

No? It's stupid to call being called out on your racism racism because you're comparing the systematic oppression of a racial group to something minor. It's trivialising the experiences poc by trying to insinuate that one off cases of prejudice are somehow equivalent to the struggles of minorities. This is Phantom's original quote:

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Oh, yeah. Sorry, I misread your post.

Warsmith said:

Listen here. There are worse things than this Missouri mess. Ignore this, and move on. No need to fling yourselves into the fray of a full fledged racism debate. This is a small thing, and very few people have been injured or killed. Again my example of the two riots in LA remain the key spokesman for bad rioting. The riots were instigated over non-life ending events.

To those who cannot fathom that an 18 year old cannot over power a police officer: really? Law Enforcement officers come in all shapes and sizes, and it doesn't matter who you are, if you're reaching for something in your pants. . . and let's be honest, the kid was a suspect for armed robbery! Are we all forgetting that, or is it okay to just lay the all the blame at the foot of the officer responsible?

Phantom, while I can appreciate the time you've taken to train yourself to be involved with law enforcement, the stun gun is a very risky item to brandish when you have no idea what the other person has in his pants pocket. It is great for drunks and situations that have a low-heat temperament. When it comes to violent and belligerent folk, I always notice them seem to acknowledge the gun the fastest.

Further more, I'm sure you're well away of the implications of the knife/gun, and regardless of what Brown (that his name?) was reaching for, reaching in your pockets and then suddenly turning around? I would shoot you.

To prevent further heat: We were not there, we aren't in Missouri (for the most part) and this will not change the fact that people are being moronic in their own neighborhoods.

I want to thank the officers for keeping this as calm as possible. So far, to my knowledge, there have been no fatalities. While this could change, it's still a nice small number.

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You concern me greatly.

Mr. Downstairs said:

You concern me greatly.

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That is none of your concern.joke



And Grey Wind. GW, GW, GW. You have failed to realize that a riot this size can produce massive amounts of casualties. Again, see: Watts riots and S. LA Riots. Get off your high horse. Boohoo, the kid MAN is dead, let me just break out my magical potion suitcase and resurrect him. . . wait, I can't! You cannot change the past, and frankly, I'm surprised you feel the need to berate others to the point of appearing like an ass. This is my view, and while you might think it's a 'glass half full' type of thing, it's not. Let me paint it in nice, big, Khornate red color:

BODY COUNT REMAINS LOW.
CIVILIAN LOSSES MINIMAL.
THESE ARE ACCEPTABLE LOSSES.
IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.

Don't sit there and tell me what I should and should not feel. That is incorrect. I never said anything about racial profiling. At all. Stop whining about police brutality. I'll just take a nod from myself and spam the sixties. "Civil rights? What civil rights?" - Nearly every Cop in the 60s ever

And need I remind you of the profiling Middle Easterners received post-911? I suppose I do. I was profiled as Middle Eastern. I'm not even from the Middle East! In your world:
Store Owner: "Well, the man who rob me, he wuss black"
Officer: "So. . . that means Asian, right?"

And what do you mean that he wasn't a suspect in armed robbery? I guess you believe that the police everywhere just lie to your face, just because. Here's a thought: Maybe the police weren't lying? Because cover-ups these days. . . what cover-ups? No secret can be contained in this age, so realizing that if it were found out the police department itself would be held liable, and not just the individual officer.

Don't talk down to me about '. . .how I don't know how they feel', because the same could be said of you. You are obviously not there. Why don't you jump on a plane, begin to protest, and then you can tell me all these things I'm supposed to feel. "You don't know how they feeeeel" pfft. Feelings.

Newsflash: Police procedure has these things called forensics. What do they do? Oh, I don't know, something about measuring every minute detail? Where brass casings fell, this, that. . . how long does this take? HOURS. It is truly ignorant to say "His body was in the street for hours!" when it needs to be. Why? Evidence, case in point, if the police officer was wrong they can prove it in something I like to call a court room. Why would you think it would be okay to just up and move the body without due processes?

Am I the only one who sees 18 year-olds as adults these days?

Warsmith said:

And Grey Wind. GW, GW, GW. You have failed to realize that a riot this size can produce massive amounts of casualties. Again, see: Watts riots and S. LA Riots. Get off your high horse. Boohoo, the kid MAN is dead, let me just break out my magical potion suitcase and resurrect him. . . wait, I can't! You cannot change the past, and frankly, I'm surprised you feel the need to berate others to the point of appearing like an ass. This is my view, and while you might think it's a 'glass half full' type of thing, it's not. Let me paint it in nice, big, Khornate red color:

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That's the thing - these aren't riots, this a peaceful protests and the police are acting as if they're in the middle of a war. Last night they raided a church where tear gas victims were being treated and arrested a bunch of people for no reason, they've been shooting at civilians who are protesting peacefully, they've brought in tanks, dogs riot gear... it's insane.

"Boohoo, the kid is dead"? What the **** is wrong with you. ANOTHER unarmed black man was shot for no reason and AGAIN, nothing is being done about it. These people have a right to protest. And the aim isn't to bring him back, it's to get justice for his murder and to make sure **** like this stops happening.

Don't sit there and tell me what I should and should not feel. That is incorrect. I never said anything about racial profiling. At all. Stop whining about police brutality.

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Um... no, I'm not going to stop "whining" about police brutality. You don't think what the police are doing is even a little bit out of line? At all?

And what do you mean that he wasn't a suspect in armed robbery? I guess you believe that the police everywhere just lie to your face, just because. Here's a thought: Maybe the police weren't lying? Because cover-ups these days. . . what cover-ups? No secret can be contained in this age, so realizing that if it were found out the police department itself would be held liable, and not just the individual officer.

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The store owners and their lawyer have confirmed that nobody robbed their store, the video tape footage initially released was debunked because it was from June, the actual video footage shows him paying for his cigars and the eyewitnesses back all this up, and the police finally admitted a few days ago that Wilson didn't know anything about the "robbery" and that he stopped Brown for walking in the street. What more do you want?

And before you bring out the "but he assaulted the officer", no he didn't. He was dragged into the window of the car and broke free. He never assaulted any one.

Don't talk down to me about '. . .how I don't know how they feel', because the same could be said of you. You are obviously not there. Why don't you jump on a plane, begin to protest, and then you can tell me all these things I'm supposed to feel. "You don't know how they feeeeel" pfft. Feelings.

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I never said I knew how they feel. I'm saying that someone who isn't black (or another poc, but this is more about anti black racism so) won't know what this feels like and writing off a racial issue as "insignificant" when you're not black is stupid and ignorant.

"Pfft. Feelings" dude what is your damage...

Grey Wind said:

Are you kidding me? Calm? You call tear gassing children and peaceful protesters calm? Bringing out tanks, dogs, assault rifles and riot gear is calm? Making mass arrests of the media and civilians for no reason is calm? If you seriously think that the police in Ferguson are handling this well then I seriously do not know what to tell you.

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I work in the Missouri National Guard in 70th Troop Command (The NG unit dealing with the whole Ferguson BS.) I had to laugh at the tank comment. We're a MP and maintenance unit, we don't own any tanks.