Your posts are filled with blatant racism and general ignorance so I'm not going to bother responding to each little thing. Sorry.
While I do not agree with Phantom's wording, I think this post needs a serious evaluation. While I do generally agree with the fact that these people certainly have the right for
peaceful protest, there are some serious problems with your post. Time to put on the devil's advocate hat on today.
because if I don't say that I swear to god this debate forum will practically get off to perceived racism
1) If a white kid had been shot, it WOULD have been different. The officer would have been arrested/fired/tried and the media would be talking about how he was so promising, was such a good kind and whatever else instead of painting him as a thug like you were trying to do.
This is not necessarily true. I live near Detroit, where you hear about this kind of stuff happening frequently. While I do not agree with Phantom's language and I do feel that the protesters have the right to be angry, I know damn well that unless that white kid is perceived as an "innocent young girl", you aren't going to hear two ****s about that person dying. Phantom is specifically pointing out how the media preys on how people try to seek social injustice to call out. I feel that while Brown's death is unnecessary, I think that it does not deserve any less media attention than all of the other people who die or are injured by police brutality.
Meanwhile, Mike Brown is SUSPECTED of robbery and supposedly resists arrest and gets shot dead.
John Crawford picked up a bb gun in Walmart and gets shot dead (while white people walk around with rifle on their shoulders lol). Another black man was suspected of stealing something from a vending stand and the police strangled him to death. Nothing happened to any of those officers.
First off, it is completely
irrelevant whether or not anyone committed a crime or not. Why are you bringing it up?
Second, while I do not agree with the idea that people are profiled based on their race, it is possible that they were profiled on other things - in Detroit, for example, profiling is more of a problem based on income. Because it is more likely that black people have a lower income, it's more likely that they will face difficulties. It's not right but it's not necessarily racist - people from low income areas who are white in Detroit often face discrimination as well.
Third, I'd like to point out that police brutality is a nationwide problem and even though some people have gotten their just deserts, it's not restricted to race. It's likely that it is underreported for the same media reasons I pointed out above - police brutality involving perceived racism makes a much more interesting story.
You can whine about people "playing the race card" all you want, but that doesn't make it any less of a racial issue.
This article that someone linked on another forum makes a lot of good points about racial profiling:
This also sums up the whole "why does race matter" thing pretty well, and
this photo compares the headlines of white shooters vs. black shooters.
Jesus Christ, these sources are
terrible. I can feel the sjw-sauce just leaking from my screen. Ick.
The first is not a source, it's a guy ranting about how he perceives himself having "white privilege". The concept of privilege is non-quantifiable and trying to make a discussion about it as if it is is fruitless. Some of the points that the guy brings up are also moot - the thing about the "names" is due to the fact that we are in an English speaking culture and that we prefer names that have been used in English for years - I don't agree with it, but it also affects people with Asian sounding names as well, as well as those who use regular nouns such as "Destiny" or "Wren" as their name (which is a growing trend in lower income white families). In fact, many Asian families have people with two names to counteract this particular issue.
When people tell me, "Oh if you were in an all [whatever] place you would care".
I live near ****ing Detroit.
I live in a city right next to Pontiac, Michigan, with a black population of over 50%. When you are there, most people are black. I still don't give a ****. The only time I give a **** is when people are specifically racist to me. Most times they are not. Most of the time that I meet a friendly person, we have a good discussion.
Dearborn, Michigan consists of 40% Arab Americans. Again, I never felt any tension between people who were not racist. Namely because I don't give two ****s about that. Most white people who live there also do not give a ****, and in fact, Dearborn is one of the best places in the world to show that Muslims are not always evil, because it is the largest Muslim population outside of Muslim countries in the world.
The reason why people who, for example, live in certain African countries may face pressures is because in some countries white people are currently oppressed - and don't give me that garbage that "oh 100 years ago they were occupied by white european countries"
THE SPECIFIC PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENTLY ENCOUNTERING THIS **** WERE NOT INVOLVED NOR MADE THE CONSCIOUS DECISION TO DO SUCH THINGS. Again, base this **** on the PERSON, not on the RACE. If you do the latter you are still a racist, no matter how much verbal social justice gymnastics you do.
In fact, the fact that people still say this garbage just shows that they are still overly invested in race.
Do yourself a favour and avoid the **** out of tumblr when doing a debate. Unless it's a post with a list and just a list of links that do not lead back to tumblr or sensationalist websites (read: things like .gov websites or several verified news outlets), it's best to avoid it. The first part of the post reads like a ****ing black panther campaign. Not only this, but I would let this post slide if it weren't for the fact that almost half of those sources on that page are from Tumblr or other social blogging websites themselves! People can say whatever the hell they want on those sites - hardly reliable sources. Another common source on this list is TheDailyMail, a site commonly ridiculed for it's extremist stances and exaggeration of the facts - not to mention blatant plagiarism. The same complaints can be said about the Huffington post - I have seen some of the most ridiculous things written by radical feminists and similar social justice groups on there. Most of the sources that this individual provides focus on stirring people emotionally and exaggerates the facts to do so. Once you filter through that, you have about 5-6 stories from the NYtimes, which, while I have no idea whether or not they are a decent source, they are the only other source that is mentioned that isn't nigh propaganda.
Perhaps the most problematic thing about that post is that it does not take into account the culture of various areas in western society. The culture found in, say, California, is probably much different than in Ferguson. Why is this important? Because these kinds of posts say blanket statements about
all cultures, and may instill fear regarding issues that may not exist or may be much smaller than they are in other cultures. Again, as I have stated in this post, in Detroit, people are more segregated through income than race - those who are low income face far more discrimination and profiling than those who are clearly higher income. The reason why there are less people who make higher incomes that are black is because they faced racism in the past, and its difficult to work yourself through poverty. Many people misattribute it to racism (and create racism in the process), even though white people who live in poverty in Detroit face the same discrimination.
And that image from Tumblr? First, that image from tumblr points out two articles. Second, this should be a criticism of how the media presents itself, which is likely part of what Phantom is annoyed with in the first place, as opposed to the fact that "omg teh polizes have teh racists!". Third, and most importantly - the media specifically targets racial matters to report on because of the simple fact that they are going to gain more attraction from people as opposed to those that do not.
2) IF Mike Brown was guilty of the robbery (the store owners never even reported a robbery, so...), that does not excuse the way Wilson acted.
This sums up the problems with how he acted (and what the police have reported in general) pretty well. There was NO reason for Brown to be shot.
The supposed struggle over the weapon never happened according to eye witnesses, and they all have the same story. Wilson was a trained police officer, SURELY he could have handled one unarmed teen that he only suspected of breaking a crime.
I agree with this point. However, this also does not justify violent protest. Many businesses for example have faced destruction regardless of whether or not they were racist in any way, nor if they were involved with the officer or the shooting.
Also, again, please avoid tumblr for sources.
3) The protests were peaceful and completely justified. The looters were mostly out of towners and drunk teens; there are tons of pictures of regular residents defending the stores from looters and protesting peacefully.
Unfortunately, it is not the people that are protesting peacefully that people will care about. There were also individuals who protested peacefully in the Detroit riot of 1967, but that didn't turn out so well. Even if they are a minority it's a wrongful minority that has not been properly addressed. I do not agree with the police's reaction to the events, however, continued riots will give them fuel to justify their wrongful actions. Why give these *******s a defence?
The police reaction to the protests were WAY out of line. Like... do you seriously not see the problem in tear gassing (which I'm pretty sure the use of is a human rights violation) peaceful protesters (some of whom were children?). Riot gear, tear gas, rifles, dogs and tanks is NOT the way you react to something like this (they were also quoted shouting "bring it on you ****ing animals". It's not a race issues?). It's insane. The bottom half of
this describes the situation pretty well (and the rest of the story).
I agree with this also. However, I think in this specific part of the issue that this is less to do with blatant racism and more to do with internal issues. It's likely that they do not want to get rid of the guy for some internal reason, which is why they keep coming up with excuses. I disagree with it but again, it may not be due to racist reasons. It's important to note that the only one, for sure, who has profiled is the officer himself. This does not justify the actions of the police department, of course, it simply means that it may not be based in race itself.
4) It's funny how you, a white person, are complaining about "pulling the race card". You don't think black people would know a little more about what racism is like than you?
Funny, you're playing the race card yourself. The reason why people hate playing the race card is because it is often done frequently for completely unnecessary reasons. In addition, it is often played when no racism is present. It is relevant here though, and I do think that people who are throwing accusations at the protests themselves are out of line - however, your use here is unacceptable. So what if Phantom is white? He is certainly entitled to an opinion on the matter. Again, since privilege is not quantifiable, you don't know what problems that Phantom may have encountered in their life due to race or other things. Take a seat and listen to their perspective. If you disagree with it, come up with a better reason than "you're white so shut up" because you're being just as racist as the people who justify shutting these peaceful protesters down.
Not only this, but I HAVE encountered racism in my life due to being white. Just because in someone's head it's not "institutionalized" it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. In fact, it just further shows that it is an issue rooted in both sides, which is why it needs to stop. Racism against whites is originated from racism against blacks, and it is a vicious cycle that only furthers its own destruction.
7) "Even if the cop was in the wrong for the shooting, he will get his due."
Really? Then why is he STILL on paid leave, why did it take so long to have his name released, why did the police station lie about why Brown was shot, why are the police focusing on the robbery instead of the man who shot an unarmed teen?
Again, there is a possibility that the officer is receiving these privileges because of the fact that 1) he was a senior officer, 2) there is internal issues about having him refuse to leave the police force, possibly due to his seniority and 3) if the kid committed a robbery they still should do an investigation on the matter.
To reiterate, I do not believe that the police is acting in a good way, I am stating that it may not be simply rooted in racism.
Yeah, the people educating themselves on social inequality and speaking out against injustice are the problem. Not, you know, the racist police force or the media making Brown out to be a thug or the KKK or people murdering trans/queer people or the men thinking it's okay to rape a women. Grow up.
Finally, I should note, that while I am criticizing your debate, I still believe that yes, the initial incident rooted in racism.
I am playing Devil's Advocate. However, going around and saying that it is dem evil whities as opposed to actually calling out the ****ing racists in the first place is self defeating and only adds fuel to the fire. Phantom needs to grow up but so do many of the others in this thread, including yourself. To reiterate, this sort of stuff is not an armchair science - you cannot just say, "well this many people do this and this many people do that because I read it somewhere online" - you really have to dig deep and uncover the deeper issues here.
Phantom is right about one thing. The only way we are going to make progress is when everyone accepts the fact that race should not be important. I try to give everyone an equal opportunity. I judge based on their words, not on anything else. I know there are many people who do not, and I know that until those people stop, things will not get better, regardless of whether or not it is "justified" or "institutionalized".
Did you read Oryx post above? Your entire post is on the assumption that Ferguson is a "riot" an "angry mob" and that the majority of protestors aren't peaceful, which is simply not the case.
It's clear that I am addressing the violent protesters. To ignore that there is violence going on doesn't justify their actions. There is definitely enough violence to be relevant. Just because it is not the majority of protest does not mean that it is not relevant - if anything, the fact that it does exist actually overwhelms the more peaceful protest because people are more willing to react to violent protest - and not in a good way.
Also to categorize this as solely black vs. white is not really accurate. It's the fact that white people make up the police, it's the fact that whites hold all the power in a mostly black town, that's the racial issue. The immediate issue is the police are being far too heavy handed.
It's not really an issue between white vs black, however, continued
violent protest, which is most certainly happening, will devolve the issue into race - which is perhaps the most undesirable result in a place where race already is a problem. Honestly, I frankly believe that most problems in western society outside of lgbt++/disabled peoples are rooted in income, and the fact that many people were denied income based on their race/sex for a long time, they still have to play catch up.
I completely understand what the problem here and I do side with the protesters. I simply believe that those who are acting violently will have much more destructive force than anything else involved and need to cut it out before these effects take hold.
