Suggestion: 18+ Members Section

[Outlier]

I never said you were the problem, but I'm saying that if you want to advocate for this kind of forum, replying to Maruno in that way was completely unnecessary.

That being said though, I feel that you misunderstood Maruno's post. He was saying older members that have been here a long time. For example, someone who is currently 22 who joined in 2007 that is still active. I don't know how old you are, but you haven't been around that long. You missed his point is what I'm saying, and there was no need to blow up at him, or myself.

Again, you're just going to ruin the chances for your case. You want a mature forum? Act mature.

By completely ignoring what Maruno said to provoke me and only focusing my "attitude", you essentially outed me as the only problem. Even though I was completely calm and mature throughout this entire thread up until I was told I should go to another forum and suggested that I don't belong here.

And my prediction comes to fruition. You accuse me of misunderstanding his post to cover up any wrong doing on his part. Mod on mod favoritism at its finest.

Being mature doesn't mean I should have to deal with these passive aggressive attacks from mods who clearly don't want me here. I guess it's mature that you're meant to be a mod yourself yet you were completely ignoring what was said to me by a fellow staff member and only tried to pick apart flaws in how I reacted.

If we can't even discuss the notion of adding a mature forum without getting into inappropriate arguments over how other posts were interpreted then I don't see a mature form popping up in the horizon any time soon.

Some people here are so over sensitive.

To be honest I stopped caring about my own suggestion the moment Maruno posted what he did and Everlark tried to out me as the bad guy. If that makes me oversensitive or immature as Everlark called me then so be it, but as far as I'm concerned Maruno and Everlark are a bunch of jerks.

Disagree with me if you like guys and girls but if you're going to tell me to go to another forum and suggest that I don't belong here then don't expect me to leave quietly. I expected more from the staff.

 

[Kanzler]

Okay, let's move on. Moogles has a good point about how we're running with the whole 18+ stigma. I think we're fixating over something that's blown out of proportion.

I think this thread: https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/318481

... segues pretty well with the discussion we're having right now. Why not have an open place to talk with only the bottom line being enforced?

 

[gimmepie]

Honestly, I think Arial Ace has now hit the nail on the head.

The behaviour in this thread - and no not just from introvert - has made it pretty clear that this forum is in no way ready to handle a "mature" section. If the best and most obvious argument against having something on a forum, is the thread discussing its addition itself then I think it is pretty much time to let the idea go, at least for the time being.

Like I said before; I'd probably use it if it came about, but there have been far more good arguments against than for and I just don't think it would add anything more than extra work for the staff and trouble amongst members to this forum - and this forum is supposed to be an interactive online community so that's pretty silly if you ask me. When you add this thread itself turning into such a valid argument against the section... with several members all being hot-headed and failing to handle things maturely or search for a compromise... well if the community itself can't act mature in a discussion like this it just adds to my earlier points (and significantly).

Sorry Introvert, you're a pretty cool guy but I really do think it's time to just let this one go.

 

[antemortem]

On the same vein as BlahISuck, here's the bottom line guidelines for an 'off-topic' section on another forum I go to:

...this is just about posting anything you want. It could be a video you liked, a funny set of picture, as shoutout to another mention, professing your love for something amazing, so long as you enjoyed it and think others will too feel free to share. It can be about any topic or random discussion that you want to make. As always make sure whatever you post follows the forum rules.

There is also a provided flow chart to help people know what to post. For ease of decoding, the 'Plaza' is their equivalent to Chit Chat Cafe, the 'Lounge' is their equivalent to the Member Interaction Center, and the 'Outlet' is the proposed off-topic section. Essentially what the whole set up offers is a forum where people aren't expected to interact in such a way that involves following a set of rules (see: Forum Games) but are still able to talk about whatever they want, within reason, without fear of any sort of harsh reprimand. It's a really fair, easy-to-follow and manage set-up if you ask me and something I can see working here quite nicely.

This isn't completely relevant to this topic considering it wouldn't necessarily be the 18+ forum people are rallying for, but it's relevant in the fact that it can combine the two ideas posed in the threads. I imagine it could be tagged with some sort of disclaimer that there's little patrol over the topics posted there so if you see something that's a little NSFW or 18+ there, look at your own discretion, especially if you're somewhat underage. Fair enough, I think?

 

[Outlier]

Sorry Introvert, you're a pretty cool guy but I really do think it's time to just let this one go.

Hey no problem. Trust me I couldn't care less anymore whether this section gets made or not.

 

[Bounsweet]

In all honesty, I couldn't see myself having any 18+ conversations with anyone on here. When I come here, I log in with the mindset to chat about all the awesome shinies I've been hatching or to float around other boards. Not to chat about my bedroom escapades with my boyfriend.

PC offers a lot of boards where you can have many varied conversations which is one of the things I love about this site, but there really is no need for anything of 18+ nature here. If you're close enough to anyone on the site where you could have those conversations, then carry those convos out over IM client, Twitter, Facebook, or whatever you use. It just seems largely unnecessary for it to have its own board on this forum, of all forums.

It seems like much more of a hassle for what it's worth. As other members have mentioned, kids will lie about their age, there would have to be some sort of 'blocking' system to prevent viewers from accessing it (which I don't know the difficulty of enabling and enforcing, honestly) all just so we can talk about what, exactly? D&D covers mature topics like current events and world news, the only topics I could see that would be discussed would be use of alcohol/drugs (which are allowed in D&D), sexual activity/hygiene and gory violence.

Also, I'm not even giving young members any thought with my standpoint, if people are thinking I'm going at this with a 'protect the children!' standpoint. The fact of the matter is they will access it if they really want to, it would be easy to bypass any way you crack it. I just think it's not necessary in any situation. If you have that strong of a desire to discuss your kinks or anything explicitly violent, you would probably find a more suitable crowd on sites like Tumblr or forums designated specifically for that.

Apologizing in advance if this post has any irrelevance to recent posts, I read the first two pages then started skimming when the drama kicked in, which... imo is another reason for this not being made if it's causing this much of an uproar in just a suggestion thread.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Creating threads to cater to specific populace is a form of alienating. It cannot be compared to a common law that is there to protect others from self destructive habits. Laws are in place to keep younger members of society from freely attaining a harmful substance that has a chance to have a huge negative impact upon their lives.

A mature discussion forum made with the sole purpose to hold mature rated discussions (which are a majority of what is already discussed in DDCs and CCC.) holds no protective reasoning. Maturity isn't based on an age. By making an age locked forum, yes we are discriminating against those of younger age, which in turn does a few things, 1)Causes them to lie just to get involved with the forum which holds no real purpose. 2)Creates a visible rift. We are already cutting out potential member base lower than the age of 13 due to a law. Many people would see the inclusion of a special forum that you need a physical age to get into as a form of discrimination on an open forum like this. This would make our younger member base feel as if we won't want to cater to them and possibly favor older members, which isn't true.

As I said, maturity isn't an age and should not be restricted by age. For a thread about maturity, there have been many overreactions by some claiming to be mature, and many of these over reactions are very immature. There is not one person in which this is targeted towards because there are many in this thread who are overreacting to minor quips from opposing points of view.

Mature rating tags are possibly the best choice of action for us as it leaves our already overflowing D&D and CCC forums with their entire member base, it won't alienate members as they'll still be visible to all members with the tag in place to warn younger that the discussion held is for mature members. They would then be held responsible for their own posts and be expected to behave maturely. If not then a simple action of deleting the immature responses can be taken.

 

[Chibiterasu]

I just went through 4 pages of useless debate to say: This is a Pokemon related website, and it always will be. So if the main purpose of this site is for Pokemon related discussion and content, why are we discussing on having a private (or public, whichever) forum that will only be used for adult related content that 13 year-old boys already talk about enough? We promote friendly discussion about, once again, Pokemon. Not religion and masturbation. If you want a site with a place to talk about adult-restricted content, go to an adult-restricted website. It has been clarified previously that this site is to be maintained within the PG-13 zone, no further than that. I know I'm going to be getting replies saying "shut up kid we're having a serious talk". But this whole thread has become pointless and ridiculous, and we're even involving legal terms in this. There's really no point in bothering with this any longer, it's really becoming useless and is going nowhere.

 

[Livewire]

I just went through 4 pages of useless debate to say: This is a Pokemon related website, and it always will be. So if the main purpose of this site is for Pokemon related discussion and content, why are we discussing on having a private (or public, whichever) forum that will only be used for adult related content that 13 year-old boys already talk about enough? We promote friendly discussion about, once again, Pokemon. Not religion and masturbation. If you want a site with a place to talk about adult-restricted content, go to an adult-restricted website. It has been clarified previously that this site is to be maintained within the PG-13 zone, no further than that. I know I'm going to be getting replies saying "shut up kid we're having a serious talk". But this whole thread has become pointless and ridiculous, and we're even involving legal terms in this. There's really no point in bothering with this any longer, it's really becoming useless and is going nowhere.

You're neglecting to include the fact that a large potion of the traffic we get here doesn't even go to the Pokemon related sections, and our "off-topic" sections like Culture & Media, Discussions & Debates, Chit-Chat Cafe, etc, are quite active on their own, so. It's not all Pokemon related.


D&D already caters to more "mature" (ugh such a subjective term) content anyways, and I have never had an issue with somebody who went in there and got offended with what was there, regarding mature content - "OMG SOMEBODY TALKED ABOUT SEX OR DRUGS, I AM OFFENDED" None. Nobody. Zilch. Nada. Not that the usual fare in D&D is what I would call mature, but still. The forum (D&D) over the years has gradually swung to being a place where more academic and worldly things can be discussed with a degree of maturity and scholasticism not found in many other places here. And I would very much like to to stay that way.

 

[Outlier]

Creating threads to cater to specific populace is a form of alienating. It cannot be compared to a common law that is there to protect others from self destructive habits. Laws are in place to keep younger members of society from freely attaining a harmful substance that has a chance to have a huge negative impact upon their lives.

A mature discussion forum made with the sole purpose to hold mature rated discussions (which are a majority of what is already discussed in DDCs and CCC.) holds no protective reasoning. Maturity isn't based on an age. By making an age locked forum, yes we are discriminating against those of younger age, which in turn does a few things, 1)Causes them to lie just to get involved with the forum which holds no real purpose. 2)Creates a visible rift. We are already cutting out potential member base lower than the age of 13 due to a law. Many people would see the inclusion of a special forum that you need a physical age to get into as a form of discrimination on an open forum like this. This would make our younger member base feel as if we won't want to cater to them and possibly favor older members, which isn't true.

As I said, maturity isn't an age and should not be restricted by age. For a thread about maturity, there have been many overreactions by some claiming to be mature, and many of these over reactions are very immature. There is not one person in which this is targeted towards because there are many in this thread who are overreacting to minor quips from opposing points of view.

Mature rating tags are possibly the best choice of action for us as it leaves our already overflowing D&D and CCC forums with their entire member base, it won't alienate members as they'll still be visible to all members with the tag in place to warn younger that the discussion held is for mature members. They would then be held responsible for their own posts and be expected to behave maturely. If not then a simple action of deleting the immature responses can be taken.

You ignored my point about sections here being reserved for members who donate money. How is that not a form of discrimination? Either way I resent the way that you implied that I was trying to alienate the younger members here.

Whatevs I don't care about this suggestion anymore, I'm just defending myself from these subtle jabs that the mods are throwing at me and trying not to react in a way that will give the staff a reason to infract me. I see what you guys are doing though and I wont let it work on me again.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

The donator section is a paid for section. They had to pay for that section to be accessed, anyone can drop a few dollars down to gain access. That's completely different from blatant refusal because of something that they cannot control such as a person's age.

You have to pay to be able to post in the donator's area, that's a physical contrabution, not a free section created because you don't want kids around or you want to talk about things that you cannot because there are younger members.

I'm not exactly aware of how much you need to pay to get access. I can see the forum since I'm a mod but I've never made a post in it because I've never earned the right to post there.

 

[Outlier]

You didn't really explain how reserving sections and features for members who donate money isn't a form of discrimination. In fact I'd imagine there are a lot of younger members who couldn't donate money due their age unless they asked their parents to chip in when they might not be in a position to do so. It might be a different form of discrimination than my cigarettes example but it's still discriminating if you ask me.

What you saw as discrimination I viewed as protecting the children. It wasn't meant to alienate anyone at all.

I'm done with this thread it's only getting me in trouble.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

That's the same as saying you are discriminated because someone goes to a school that you have to pay to get in. Its discrimination is only when you make it to where there is absolutely no way for them to get in.

A paid for section can allow them in. I'm sure not all of those who have the Donator status are all up there in age, while on the other side of it, an age locked forum is age discrimination against members who have absolutely no way to access the forum until they are of a certain age.

The entire point of an 18+ forum is to keep kids out, by the very description, its discrimination through age difference. There is no protection going on since all the threads that would be found in that thread are already up in Chit Chat Cafe and Discussion and Debates. Both open to the general public and have had very questionable topics when thinking about age appropriate material.

There isn't any general use for a mature section, which is the major thing going against the idea.

 

[Outlier]

That's the same as saying you are discriminated because someone goes to a school that you have to pay to get in. Its discrimination is only when you make it to where there is absolutely no way for them to get in.

A paid for section can allow them in. I'm sure not all of those who have the Donator status are all up there in age, while on the other side of it, an age locked forum is age discrimination against members who have absolutely no way to access the forum until they are of a certain age.

The entire point of an 18+ forum is to keep kids out, by the very description, its discrimination through age difference. There is no protection going on since all the threads that would be found in that thread are already up in Chit Chat Cafe and Discussion and Debates. Both open to the general public and have had very questionable topics when thinking about age appropriate material.

There isn't any general use for a mature section, which is the major thing going against the idea.

No, having to meet certain criteria to join a group or organization could be considered discrimination as well. And a certain level of what some people consider discrimination is quite frankly needed, otherwise everybody would want to take part in absolutely everything which just wouldn't be practical and would more often than not just cause problems. Which was part of my reasoning for suggesting an 18+ members section to discuss things that wouldn't be appropriate in front of minors. I had their interests at heart as well as the possible legal liability that the owners of this site could possible face should they knowingly allow minors to view 18+ content.

My point was there's all sorts of discrimination beyond natural factors that we can't control such as our age. I do think reserving features and sections for members who donate money is a form of discrimination as well. I'm not bothered by it but by the standards that you consider my suggestion discriminating towards younger members here, you guys should also consider that it's a form of discrimination to hold off forum content for people who donate money.

 

[Kanzler]

Nobody said that the kids have to be kept out by some kind of force. The suggestion was for a freer section with less restrictions which would open it up to conversation you or I would have, say on Skype or something. I think whether we want to exclude people under a certain age or not is a detail secondary to the main idea.

People can negotiate in two directions: either beginning with the general and moving into specifics, or by clearing up specifics before moving into the general. What's common to both approaches is that you don't get held up on one thing and keep moving with the discussion. If preventing users under a certain age limit from accessing a section is too controversial, then let's leave it to a side and consider the rest.

 

[Astinus]

This thread is getting wildly off course, to the point where it's not clear what's being talked about. But as to the original intent of this thread: An 18+ section on this forum is not happening, as multiple members of staff have said.

If anyone wants to talk more about discrimination, feel free to head to Discussions & Debates.