CONGRATS! US HEALTHCARE REFORM PASSES!

[Prince_of_Light]

1. One billion is not "a couple billion"
2. That's an estimate. Please look up that definition.
3. Who cares about India in this thread? This is a thread about Health Care in the US, being passed in the US.

1. I admitted my mistake.

2. It's not just an estimate.

2001 census 1,028,610,328[11]

official count ^

3. I was using India as an example of how a health care overhaul with a public option would fail because the sheer population trying to use said option would overload the system.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

As a Canadian looking in, I've got mixed feelings.

It's great that they've made some progress. And hopefully, something greater can come from this in the long run. But, in reality, this is health insurance reform, not health care before.

Originally, I think, the bill included a public option among other things. And they should have left it in. The Republicans *****ed and moaned and Obama wanting to be bipartisan cut it and many other things out. And in the end the bill that was passed was very republican. A mixture of Romeny and Dole's plans. All to cater to people who just don't care.

Obama, the Republicans just aren't that into you. You watered down the bill immensely because they kept threatening they wouldn't vote for it. You catered them. And in the end the bill was passed without one single Republican vote. You could have left everything in. You should have left everything in. They wouldn't have voted either way. So, in the end, who won? The Republicans got the bill they wanted (despite what the three amigos Rush, Beck, and Palin say) and America is left without a public option.

The bill makes private health insurance a must, or pay fine. Just like house and car insurance. That's good, but if you had a public option that'd be even better. Because, as long as your health care system is for profit you will have problems. The penalty an insurance company must pay if they refuse to cover you (despite the reforms, children are covered longer, no more pre-existing conditions, etc.) is $100 a day. Oooooo. I'm sure the the insurance companies are shaking in their boots. So long as it's private, regardless of reform, the aim of the insurance companies will not be to save lives but to save money. And if the option is paying $100,000 that you are entitled to or pay a $100 penalty until you drop dead - they're going to go with the later.

Almost everyone is forced to buy-in to the insurance companies now. It's also now cheaper to do so. Employers must also offer it (which...during a job crises and trying to make industry more competitive on a global scale wasn't the brightest of decisions and all could have been avoided, once again, with the public option). This is all good. But not everyone is covered. The poorest of the poor, those who do not have employers to offer insurance are still out of luck.

You made a great giant baby step. Now get universal healthcare and join the rest of the civilized world.

The Democrats showed on the weekend that they have the balls to get things accomplished. No more bipartisan crap. You won. You have a majority. Use it before you lose it. Bush did all kinds of crap that was unpopular because he was able to. Now, please do the same. Get a move on.

 

[blackwell]

[censored]... No reform just more fed power... [screw] the repubs [screw] the dems [screw] the corruption [screw] the whole system. Wait 10 years we will be in the red on this program as well.

mod edits: hey bro, I appreciate your opinion on this an' everything but try not to bypass the censor. :/

 

[Porygon-Z]

Be sarcastic all you want till a few years come round and this BS is coming out of your wallet.

You'd be paying for health insurance with the old way anyway.

We have NHS here in the UK and it works.

 

[blackwell]

Porygon it work until something serious happens and you actually need quality healthcare. :P

 

[.Gamer]

Fvck this sh1t... No reform just more fed power... Fvck the repubs fvck the dems fvck the corruption fvck the whole system. Wait 10 years we will be in the red on this program as well.

I'm sorry, censor bypass is not allowed on my forum.

 

[Porygon-Z]

Porygon it work until something serious happens and you actually need quality healthcare. :P

If I do I can always go private and use Bupa.

Private health care still exists, but now it's not just privileges for the privileged. Everyone can get health care.

 

[NarutoActor]

You'd be paying for health insurance with the old way anyway.

We have NHS here in the UK and it works.

That's assuming you have heath care. This bill forces you to bye heath care.

Also great Britain is in debt. (but the us is in debt, even with out the health care, but the heath care would increase the debt.)

 

[Prince_of_Light]

That's assuming you have heath care. This bill forces you to bye heath care.

Also great Britain is in debt. (but the us is in debt, even with out the health care, but the heath care would increase the debt.)

Entitlements = debt. Sad but inevitable. When will the government learn that you don't fill a hole in by digging deeper?

 

[Netto Azure]

That's assuming you have heath care. This bill forces you to bye heath care.

Also great Britain is in debt. (but the us is in debt, even with out the health care, but the heath care would increase the debt.)

It's in debt. But it's overall spending on Healthcare is half as much as we have. (8%+ rather than 17% per capita GDP)

So they spend that debt on other stuff...like Education. o3o

 

[Prince_of_Light]

It's in debt. But it's overall spending on Healthcare is half as much as we have. (8%+ rather than 17% per capita GDP)

So they spend that debt on other stuff...like Education. o3o

They also have a much smaller population (1/7th of the US) with a smaller proportion of people currently entering retirement. Didn't you bring up the baby boomers earlier?

So considering their GDP expenditure on health care is higher than 1/7th of our GDP expenditure to match population scale, not to mention they should have less people to treat, they're still technically in a lot of debt and are spending a lot for the size of their nation.

 

[Porygon-Z]

That's assuming you have heath care. This bill forces you to bye heath care.

Also great Britain is in debt. (but the us is in debt, even with out the health care, but the heath care would increase the debt.)

Our countries are in debt because they spent an inordinate amount of money going to war with Iraq.

Do you really think health care expenditure will make that much of a difference compared to that?

 

[Prince_of_Light]

Our countries are in debt because they spent an inordinate amount of money going to war with Iraq.

https://www.tenthousandfilms.com/10k/wp-content//2009/11/book_billion.jpg

Well you're wrong at least about the United States. Bush's debt additions at the end of 8 years was 700 billion because of the wars. Obama quadrupled that and more is on the way with this health care monstrosity.

As of February 2010, around $704 billion has been spent based on estimates of current expenditure rates[1]

Roughly the same as the stimulus package, which was $787 billion. Which means double debt plus change right there.

 

[Simmons_2.0]

And the UK is in a huge amount of debt aswell, but not just because of Health care. External debt per capita (US$)$150,673 in the UK. compared to $43k in the US, which Is still a crapload. but hey it's less.

 

[blackwell]

Porygon you act like people in the US are denied care which isnt the case.

1) Whats wrong with being wealthy and being able to afford the best? Do I sense class envy?

2) The US Constitution does not allow such legislation by the fed. (Please spare me the general welfare clause talking point.)

3) Why not actually take steps to make it affordable instead of this BS?

 

[Porygon-Z]

Porygon you act like people in the US are denied care which isnt the case.

1) Whats wrong with being wealthy and being able to afford the best? Do I sense class envy?

2) The US Constitution does not allow such legislation by the fed. (Please spare me the general welfare clause talking point.)

3) Why not actually take steps to make it affordable instead of this BS?

The former american health insurance would not have covered somebody for pre-existing conditions. If somebody couldn't afford health care and then became sick, then they would be screwed because nobody would cover them. I don't know about you but I don't think that's fair at all.

And no I don't have class envy because here in the UK we all get equal opportunities, there's no need to be jealous.

How would you make health care more affordable when the health insurance is run by private companies? You'd have to subsidise them with tax payers dollars, so either way you end up paying.

 

[Prince_of_Light]

The former american health insurance would not have covered somebody for pre-existing conditions. If somebody couldn't afford health care and then became sick, then they would be screwed because nobody would cover them. I don't know about you but I don't think that's fair at all.

And no I don't have class envy because here in the UK we all get equal opportunities, there's no need to be jealous.

How would you make health care more affordable when the health insurance is run by private companies? You'd have to subsidise them with tax payers dollars, so either way you end up paying.

1. Covering pre-existing conditions is something everyone supports, this trash bill just smothers the few good things still inside it with 2600 pages of waste.

2. America already gives its citizens equal opportunity, that's why anyone is free to work hard and earn what they desire. You, sir, support equal results, not equal opportunity. Under socialism everyone gets exactly the same stuff in theory. Sadly this can't work in the real world, as different people are different.

3. For solutions, see this post and the post linked inside it:

https://www.pokecommunity.com/showpost.php?p=5646888&postcount=166

 

[.little monster]

Porygon you act like people in the US are denied care which isnt the case.

1) Whats wrong with being wealthy and being able to afford the best? Do I sense class envy?

2) The US Constitution does not allow such legislation by the fed. (Please spare me the general welfare clause talking point.)

3) Why not actually take steps to make it affordable instead of this BS?

1. How is that relavent?
2. That point is completely false. The US constitution does not forbid this legislation in any way.
3. That's what the bill is doing. Putting more regulations on it so it is affordable as well as making it so insurance companies cant rape you for money and giving people who need insurance, insurance. What ever happened to a person's fundamental right as a human to life? Try reading about it before saying stuff, kthxbai.

 

[Prince_of_Light]

1. How is that relavent?
2. That point is completely false. The US constitution does not forbid this legislation in any way.
3. That's what the bill is doing. Putting more regulations on it so it is affordable as well as making it so insurance companies cant rape you for money and giving people who need insurance, insurance. What ever happened to a person's fundamental right as a human to life? Try reading about it before saying stuff, kthxbai.

1. It wasn't really relevant. Agreed.

2. It is not completely false, this bill is unconstitutional because it mandates people to buy health insurance from a private entity.

3. Again, see the posts I linked to in my last reply. How many times must I repeat that bigger government and more regulations aren't the solution? Secondly, the right to life only protects it from being taken by another human being.

Right to life is a phrase that describes the belief that a human being has an essential right to live, particularly that a human being has the right not to be killed by another human being.

 

[Mario The World Champion]

I have a feeling that this will continue to be a major argument point for days to come. I have an idea. Let's get some dirt and water, put these "people" we voted in power in a ring and let them fling mud at each other. Since that's the only good thing they do anyway.