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Fanfiction Lounge

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    • Seen Mar 2, 2014
    Hey, Frosty is back!

    Maybe the lounge will be livened up again with his return

    Good choice to start reviewing with Sike Saner, she is quite a good writer. Her other work Communication though is a huge improvement (not saying it needed it) from The Origin of Storms judging from what I read so far
     

    Blizzard

    The Quiet Winds of the Winter
    572
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    • Seen Aug 1, 2007
    Hi everyone.

    I'm here to advertise for my new fanfiction, "The Secrets of Celebi." I'd also enjoy a thorough review if possible...
     
    395
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  • Frostweaver said:
    But certainly, this time I'm not going to do take-in reviews, but review when I want do, and review what seems to catch my eyes the most. I can't make any promises with university schedules... so I'm going to free-lance my way through.

    Expect to see this place slightly more lively soon (well, I hope that there's still writers around this place ;; )
    Aww...so you're not taking requests anymore? Darn, I've been dying to have another LC review. xD
     

    Frostweaver

    Ancient + Prehistoric
    8,246
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  • Aww...so you're not taking requests anymore? Darn, I've been dying to have another LC review. xD

    Oh I'm still doing reviews, just that if I dare to take in requests, I'll get all of them piled up at a speed faster than I can clear them again x_x; I'll still review LC someday =x My goal is to do the ones on the regular fanfic subforum first before I go to the showcase. Afterall, things in the showcase are basically quality guaranteed, and the writers must be pretty skilled to get a story in there. So, technically, those writers are in slightly less of a need of advices because they're just so experienced anyway ;p

    I'll still get to it eventually though ^^;;
     

    Frostweaver

    Ancient + Prehistoric
    8,246
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  • They may be "Pretty Darn Good", but I'm relatively new and therefor inexperienced.

    More the reason why you must do it! Afterall, reviewing is the same as writing. You just have to do it more often to get better at it ;p

    I've searched through your posts for your reviews too, and I think that they are pretty good as well. You can find out the problems with relative ease and actually support your claims in terms of why you believe the story to have the mentioned issues. I'm sure that your reviews will be welcomed by any writers here ^^
     

    Frostweaver

    Ancient + Prehistoric
    8,246
    Posts
    20
    Years
  • o.o;;

    Frost, you scare me.

    Welcome back anyways. =D

    Thanks for the comment, and you aren't the first who got scared by me ;p

    *incomplete review, to be finished soon*
    Update: Yay done Ch.1 now!


    Reclaiming Freedom (Ch.1-3) by Master Gohan

    Title- /5
    5 Title is symbolic, highly relevant and unique to the story
    4 Title is relevant and descriptive
    3 Title is descriptive, but is not precise in terms of descriptiveness, or is cliché
    2 Title is general, and applicable to most stories
    1 Title is irrelevant, and applicable to all stories

    I think we all know that the first chapter starts off the story... really... Surely there's some much more important events that occurred in the first chapter besides "the story starts here." It's a very overused and very generic title for the first chapter, which may be all it needs to give your readers a bad initial impression already for the lack of originality.

    Narrative Manner- 3/5
    5 Narrative manner is excellent, and adds strength and/or hidden meaning to the story
    4 Narrative manner is good, and adds some emphasize to the story
    3 Narrative manner is decent, and is suitable to the story
    2 Narrative manner is acceptable but not precise, or format is incorrect
    1 Narrative manner is poor, and weakens the story

    The narration seems to exist for the sake of existing... It's chosen as the 3rd person, but I can't even tell if it's omniscient, limited or not, because the narration does nothing but... exist. Sometimes, we can utilize the nature of narration to improve the story. If we allow the narration to see things that the main focused character (vocal point) cannot see, then there's reasons for it to happen. If the reverse is true how the narration only knows what the vocal point knows, then the author should also take advantage on such occurrences... In this story, neither is used, which isn't too effective... The narrative manner is suitable, but it doesn't really assist the story.

    Grammar/Coherence- /10
    10 Grammar mistakes are almost inexistent, and coherence exists throughout the entire story
    8-9 Grammar mistakes are rare, and coherence exists throughout the entire story
    6-7 Grammar mistakes are uncommon, but story occasionally suffers loopholes in plot
    5 Grammar mistakes are common, and story occasionally suffers loopholes in plot
    1-4 Grammar mistakes are common, and story suffers loopholes in plot

    Some sentences are really, really long... even if they are grammatically correct, they're a pain to read because it simply keeps going.
    Ch.1 said:
    His mother had asked him not to leave home until he was at least13 and even though she died when he was 11 he still honored that wish.
    (This specific example is also a run-on sentence as well. You need a comma after "11.") You can break the sentence into two smaller ones with a period so that it flows more smoothly. Be careful of careless mistakes here, such as the missing space between least and 13. Use a spell checking device (there's some that is free for download if you don't have any at the moment) to pick up these silly errors.

    Beware of writing convention consistency issue... if your story started so that there is a blank line between every paragraph (which you should do), then keep it that way throughout the rest of the story. Sometimes you got paragraphs that do not have the blank line in-between anymore, which isn't very consistent... Also, you started with "Nidoran(M)", so you have to stick with "Nidoran(M)" and "Nidoran(F)" instead of just "Nidoran." It's not right if I have a character named Elizabeth, then somehow half way I start referring to her as only Liz in my narration in the same manner.

    Also, just a comment... it's a generic convention to always write out any numbers smaller than 100. "He's eleven years old" instead of "He's 11..." Just a note (this isn't affecting your ratings above)

    Ch.1 said:
    the third String Shot/Poison Sting combo
    That isn't a very proper grammar orientation... I'm afraid that you'll have to go the long way to say "After the third barrage of a combination of both the String Shot and Poison Sting attack," instead. (Of course, you'll have to further refine my sample solution here, as "of" is repeated too many times. You have to find a way to cut out the 2nd "of" there.)

    Major Character(s)- /15
    14-15 Major characters are very multi-faceted. All details are highly precise and relevant
    12-13 Major characters are multi-faceted. Most details are highly precise and relevant
    11-12 Major characters are multi-faceted but limited. Details are precise and relevant
    9-10 Major characters are slightly stereotypical. Details are precise but not very relevant
    7-8 Major characters are generally stereotypical. Details are present but need precision.
    5-6 Major characters are stereotypical. Details are present but limited in amount.
    1-4 Major characters have no personality traits, and no details are paid to characters.

    For a 13 year old, two much older "officials" (or theives) using force via Pokemon will definitely strike the boy in shock, and recovering within 4 words is rather unbelievable (screw the anime of 10 year old Ash if you're using that as your reference, as we all know that in terms of a story, the Pokemon anime *sucks* except a few episodes out of the hundreds). Turning Calvin to be excited for a "real battle" when the stakes are far beyond what a normal battle will be like is slightly unrealistic and hard to believe without some proper setup or reasoning to it. In this case, I personally didn't see any setup or reasoning...

    A definite problem that is super difficult to avoid in a Pokemon story, but battle commands are *really* dull because it's been overused, drilled into our head by both the game and the anime directly. Lots of commands results in many new paragraphs, and it looks awful as if it is a script-fic without a proper script format. Like most writers, I don't have a solution to this at all, as this boring mechanic is sadly an essential part of Pokemon as well. The best out of the worse solutions out there is simply reduce the time when a trainer gives commands, and let the Pokemon take over automatically. For example, Growlithe could've dodge the Rock Throw automatically since it's a no-brainer to get out of the way from an attack. That way, it could've saved you the need for another new paragraph, and instead add it to the description. The other solution is to string on some other dialogues on top of the command to enchance the attack command's detail so it's not so redundant to our usual "Pikachu, Thunderbolt!" Both the Rockets and Calvin obviously suffer from this problem that is super hard to overcome. But just because it's hard, don't give up, and keep trying at it!

    Minor Character(s)- /10
    9-10 Minor characters are necessary and relevant, contributing to the story in multiple ways
    7-8 Minor characters are interesting and relevant, contributing to the story
    6-7 Minor characters are interesting, but are limited in contribution to the story
    4-5 Minor characters are irrelevant, and are limited in contribution to the story
    1-4 Minor characters are completely irrelevant, and are completely unnecessary to the story

    "Hi little 13 year old boy on the road. I'm the creator of the evil organization back then that steals Pokemon, but not to be confused with the current one. Really, I'm a good guy" If someone said that, you'll find it to be completely insane and weird at once. Giovanni's appearance is basically that... He's suddenly from bad to good, all done within 3 paragraphs. Self admiting to be the brain of some super evil organization, even if it's a former one so easily to a random child along the road, is NOT that normal...

    Story Details- /10
    9-10 Details are relevant, allowing readers to fully understand the story
    7-8 Details are sometimes relevant, allowing readers to understand the story
    5-6 Details are lacking, not necessarily relevant, occasionally confusing the readers
    3-4 Details are severely lacking, and verisimilitude is endangered
    1-2 Details are almost inexistent, and verisimilitude is severely damaged

    It's great to see details, but make sure that they are actually relevant. Is there a reason to say "13 ½" instead of just picking a nice even number? Though you may think "WTF how does this matter? The point is that he is older than 11!", every choice the author makes will contribute to the story's 5 main component. Adding the "½" does not only go against the usual convention for describing age (in formal writing, we really don't say "half" for an age. We use other methods, such as "well above the age of blank" or "his blank-th birthday has long pass" to convey the same idea), but it hurts the flow of the sentence because it sounds really odd when read out loud.

    Be sure to be clear in terms of what you are talking about.
    Ch.1 said:
    He encountered many wild pokemon along the way and took the opportunities to get some more practice in.
    "What practice?" Practice in battling? Practice in capturing new Pokemon? Once you mentioned a piece of information, go all the way in explaining what it is.

    It's very boring to see strings of descriptions, as mentioned... Try to include a few action verbs just to brighten things up a bit, so that readers can have a moving image of what is happening instead of some dull still-life. By verbs, it doesn't even have to be some intense movement, but any verb besides "to be" and so on... It's also a good idea to add the description within some other movement. A classical example is not to talk of hair color, but instead hold on it until a girl does a hair flick, and etc... A paragraph of pure description with no plot advancement at the same time can be boring (but still better than none, however.)

    Now for once I'm speaking from intensive personal experience... Back then there was a "6vs6 Pokemon Battle Writing Contest" that never got lifted off the ground, but I did write for it anyway. Only 3 Pokemon fainted, and it was already 7 pages long... that is because, there is so many ways you can describe an attack besides "<blank> used <an attack> but <blank2> dodged it!" Definitely, try to do more than just annoucing an attack name as the description. Visualize what the attack is like, and describe it to the best detail. It's also the most beneifical if the effect of an attack is hinted, or slightly touched on in the description as well. For example, you can mention what can string shot accomplish by tangling its target to the ground through its sticky nature, effectively slowing down the target on top of its silvery thread-like appearance. (of course, you can also use better vocabs too, to stay away from words like "sticky" which is overly generic, and it also sounds bad in that sentence.) Another way to include more battle detail is to describe the Pokemon's body motion when it launches/dodges the attack as well.

    Yes, battling detail is surprisingly vast and it amounts to *great* length before you know it. A simple 2vs2 battle can take up to pages by itself. You'll actually realize and feel that a lot of the "best" stories here actually don't have too much emphasis on battling, because it's just that hard to do. Those that do have battling scenes, will be significantly longer than those that do not, too.

    Diction/Tone- /15
    14-15 Diction greatly contributes to story components. Tone is very relevant and suitable
    12-13 Diction contributes to story components. Tone is suitable but not always relevant
    10-11 Diction and tone are suitable but not always relevant
    8-9 Diction and tone are sometimes suitable but always relevant
    6-7 Diction and tone are sometimes inappropriate and are not relevant
    1-5 Diction and tone are inappropriate and are not considered by the author

    Repeating the same words in a sentence is usually very boring and ought to be avoided. There are obviously a few words that repeat in a sentence without problems, but they're the very small minority (and they are mostly articles, "of," "as," "to be," and some special occassions break this rule as well). Look at the quoted sentence here...
    Ch.1 said:
    He packed up some food and extra clothes and left on the 3 day hike to Viridian City.
    We can replace the 2nd "and" with "along with some" so that we have a greater variety of vocabulary words used, so the sentence is less dull and boring.

    Condense the number of words you use if you can. If you can say the same thing with one word instead of a couple of words (and that one word isn't excessively difficult of a vocabulary), use it! Here...
    Ch.1 said:
    Calvin took the walk kind of slow so...
    Why not "Calvin slowly walked so..."? Slowly is a lot shorter than the original phrase, and it's not that hard of a word for readers to understand either.

    Ch.1 said:
    so that he could get in as many fights as possible before the gym.
    So Calvin wants more gang fight experience or something...? That's certainly what you're implying here by the word choice... "Battle" vs "Fights" may point to the same thing in our favorite gameboy games, but in a fanfic, one of them means a legal Pokemon battle, and the other is people/people fight (not something you want in this case.)

    Ch.1 said:
    It followed that up with a slash to the face before Geodude could see. Geodude flew back but regained himself just in time to see a second slash coming. Geodude didn't outlast the second one. Calvin returned him to his ball and brought out Bellsprout.
    Notice how all of these sentences share a similar setup? It's always the subject that goes first, then a verb, then a clause/compound to follow. In a battle scene that should be vivid, lively and unpredictable, it's important to mix up your sentence structures so that it's less dull and boring.

    Careful of specific Pokemon terminology. "Recoil" is specified in Pokemon for "Recoil damage" where a Pokemon uses an attack that damages itself, such as Double Edge or Take Down. (SelfDestruct/Explosion do not count as "recoil" damage) Since the fandom took the term to its own use, I'm afraid that you can't use this verb so lightly, or else people will be wondering just what attack did Beedrill use to suffer recoil all of a sudden.

    Story Structure- /18
    17-18 Story structure is carefully planned and greatly contributes to all story components
    15-16 Story structure is planned and contributes to most story components
    13-14 Story structure is planned and contributes to some story components
    11-12 Story structure is slightly weak and sometimes contributes to some story components
    8-10 Story structure is weak and rarely contributes to story components
    5-7 Story structure is weak and endangers the story components
    1-4 Story structure is fragile and damages the story components

    "Listing" really sucks... because it's boring. When the author throws a list of anything at the readers, such as a list of Pokemon or items, it's really boring... Sometimes we ought to hold back details and release them at a point when it's actually relevant. Consider how this fanfic reveals Calvin's Pokemon, and when this is done. At that moment, is it helping the story to know that he has a Nidorain(M)? Not exactly... in fact, we're slowing the progress of the main story by major sidetracking in dedicating a whole paragraph to what is his Pokemon lineup, when we really don't need to know it (yet.) Again, this has to do with relevancy...

    Even though Calvin is a novice trainer who will most likely rely on all power attacks without much strategy, it's beyond boring to see Hyper Fang as basically the only thing Rattata uses... Change attacks once in awhile, even if you're trying to demonstrate a trainer's inability to be fully adapted to battle, such as Tackle. It's also more refreshing to use the newer attacks from the new generation of games, such as Ambush. Truly skilled trainers should take this to an even greater extent, such as combining multiple attacks to reach results that will otherwise only be a fantasy within the game, or abuse a Pokemon's traits, abilities, and Pokedex data to its best potential (such as Arbok's Intimidate/Shed Skin ability, and its special patterns on its body in this story.)

    Even if you live in a hole, I'm not sure if a total Kanto Domination by the new Rockets can really be totally unheard of for some random village in Kanto... I mean, that's some major rapid change within a couple of years, and they know nothing about it? Rather *very* unrealistic and illogical here...

    Fandom- /2
    2 Story takes full advantage of the Pokemon fandom to maximize the story's potential.
    1 Story utilizes Pokemon fandom settings to enhance the story.
    0 Story barely utilizes Pokemon fandom settings. Choice of fandom limits the story's potential.

    Careful of some Pokemon's general stereotype. Sandshrew is not known for its speed (shown by the game easily) but for its tough hide in defensive ability and equally strong physical attack. To make it dodge multiple vine whip barrages is not exactly taking full advantage of the fact that this Pokemon is a Sandshrew and not a Ninjask. If you chose Sandshrew as the opponent, take advantage of its identity and special traits to enhance the battle. Right now, I can substitute Sandshrew with a Gligar, and the battle will still make a lot of sense. That isn't a good sign, as you want it to be unique. You chose Sandshrew, because there's no other better choice out there to fit the description that you've given to it. (Note: this is an exception for a few Pokemon just because they're poorly designed to begin with, mainly Pidgeot/Fearow/Swellow as they're darn interchangable besides Drill Peck. Another example is Butterfree/Beautifly. There's also a few other cases, but Sandshrew is honestly not one of them that's so easily overshadowed completely, excluding Sandslash, but even then there's quite some differences.)

    Effort- /10
    9-10 A great amount of effort is shown. Author's re-read and editing are apparent.
    7-8 A good amount of effort is shown. Further double checking maybe necessary.
    5-6 A good amount of effort is shown. Double checking and spell checking are necessary.
    1-4 A limited amount of effort is shown. Please use spell check and other helpful devices.

    Literal Device Bonus- +/15 (Foreshadowing /1, Antinomy/Paradox /2, Foil /2, Dramatic Irony /2, Situational Irony /2, Allusion /2, Motif/Symbols /3)


    Total: /100
     
    Last edited:

    Orange_Flaaffy

    Crystal Bell Keeper
    340
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    Years
  • Maybe it is just as well you are not doing reveiw request anymore, Fable has not gotten to the meat of the story anyhow...
    And I know it would be hard to give an over all reveiw a fic based only on the beganing...
    And my learning disablity which makes my spelling so awfull you proably would not give it the time of day :(
    (Note: I spell check, but still have troubles *sigh*)
     

    Blizzard

    The Quiet Winds of the Winter
    572
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    20
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    • Age 35
    • Seen Aug 1, 2007
    I'd like help.

    I really enjoy writing fanfics and stories, except I seem to keep falling into the traps of abusing cliches and overly ambiguous wording...

    I would appreciate some advice on how to avoid these pitfalls to better my fanfic writing skills...
     

    Alter Ego

    that evil mod from hell
    5,751
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  • Well, I'm not a pro writer or anything, but the way I see it reading more is definitely a way to help your problem. And by reading I don't just mean books, but also fanfictions and suchlike, preferably any in-depth reviews you find also. That way you should soon be able to identify the most common clichés pretty easily and thus avoid drawing on them unnecessarily.

    On ambiguous wording, I think your main problem is in keeping your metaphors and similes relevant and consistent, and for that I know of no better remedy than re-reading your writing. Once you've typed out a chapter, take a break, get your mind off it then after an hour or two come back and read through it. The obvious contradictions and odd parts should become pretty obvious, and it will also help you in weeding out typoes and grammatical errors. If you're still not confident then get a beta reader to read and comment on your fic before you post it. I'm sure that some of the folks around here would be happy to help you with that.

    Finally, try doing some reviews yourself. When you spend hours upon hours correcting the mistakes of others you'll learn to notice them easier in your own writing as well.

    Beyond that, just get back on that metaphorical horse and keep at it until you get the hang of it. ^-^

    Hope some of this helped and sorry if my review was overly negative, I was a bit on edge when I typed that so I think I went a wee bit overboard with the criticism. x3 We both have something to improve on, yes? ^^ If you need something proofread or whatnot then don't be afraid to PM me. I don't have a professional system like Frostweaver here but I try my best. I've actually been trying to gather up a list of the worst wrongs a fanfic writer (or reviewer) could possibly commit in this thread, but it hasn't been too active yet. xD Oh well, such is life...
     
    Last edited:

    Blizzard

    The Quiet Winds of the Winter
    572
    Posts
    20
    Years
    • Age 35
    • Seen Aug 1, 2007
    Well, I'm not a pro writer or anything, but the way I see it reading more is definitely a way to help your problem. And by reading I don't just mean books, but also fanfictions and suchlike, preferably any in-depth reviews you find also. That way you should soon be able to identify the most common clichés pretty easily and thus avoid drawing on them unnecessarily.

    On ambiguous wording, I think your main problem is in keeping your metaphors and similes relevant and consistent, and for that I know of no better remedy than re-reading your writing. Once you've typed out a chapter, take a break, get your mind off it then after an hour or two come back and read through it. The obvious contradictions and odd parts should become pretty obvious, and it will also help you in weeding out typoes and grammatical errors. If you're still not confident then get a beta reader to read and comment on your fic before you post it. I'm sure that some of the folks around here would be happy to help you with that.

    Finally, try doing some reviews yourself. When you spend hours upon hours correcting the mistakes of others you'll learn to notice them easier in your own writing as well.

    Beyond that, just get back on that metaphorical horse and keep at it until you get the hang of it. ^-^

    Hope some of this helped and sorry if my review was overly negative, I was a bit on edge when I typed that so I think I went a wee bit overboard with the criticism. x3 We both have something to improve on, yes? ^^ If you need something proofread or whatnot then don't be afraid to PM me. I don't have a professional system like Frostweaver here but I try my best. I've actually been trying to gather up a list of the worst wrongs a fanfic writer (or reviewer) could possibly commit in this thread, but it hasn't been too active yet. xD Oh well, such is life...

    Don't worry about it, AE. Reading that simply told me that I needed to get my story better before I brought it out to the public. ((Hint, hint, O.J. Simpson.))
     

    Orange_Flaaffy

    Crystal Bell Keeper
    340
    Posts
    19
    Years
  • keeping metaphors and similes relevant and consistent
    Unless you have a good reason for them not to be ;)
    In my case my fanfic is in first person and my character fancies herself a 'good' writer so she often brings in overblown metaphors and similes to retelling her life. It is just a part of her character and a running theme :).
     

    Alter Ego

    that evil mod from hell
    5,751
    Posts
    18
    Years
  • Blizzard said:
    Don't worry about it, AE. Reading that simply told me that I needed to get my story better before I brought it out to the public. ((Hint, hint, O.J. Simpson.))

    Heh, glad to hear it, and that's a nice analogy you've got there btw. xD
    Orange_Flaaffy said:
    Unless you have a good reason for them not to be ;)
    In my case my fanfic is in first person and my character fancies herself a 'good' writer so she often brings in overblown metaphors and similes to retelling her life. It is just a part of her character and a running theme :)

    Fair enough, but let's just say that in the case of the metaphors and similes I was refering to that was not the case.
     

    Frostweaver

    Ancient + Prehistoric
    8,246
    Posts
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    Years
  • Lol, really... Just say that it can't be broken ;p

    Those who aren't ready to distinguish when rules can be bent slightly, will listen to it, and therefore will have a relatively high minimal quality to the story at the very least. Those who know what they are talking about will instantly understand what the rule is referring to, and thus will safely ignore it for the more risky path for an even better story.

    Better to write it out as "absolute" if you get what I mean ;p
     
    13
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    Years
  • I don't want to sidetrack the current discussions, but I'd like to thank Frostweaver for the review of the first few chapters of my fan fic. I have read and taken advantage of each piece of advice you've given. I will definitely go back and keep proofreading what I've already written as well as apply these pointers to future chapters. I've read several of the fics posted on the forum and I have to say that most of them are much better than mine. Thank you very much for taking the time to critique mine.
     
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