Lonely, Bullied, Abused Teen Dies

[Nihilego]

@_______@

Ok this thread's only a couple of hours old and it's already getting nastier than I'm comfortable with. This is obviously a really unpleasant topic for some members here, as shown in the last few posts, and some of you need to cool down a bit before you continue and approach this discussion with a little more maturity and sensitivity. Because honestly some of the attitude and aggression being thrown around in here is just plain unacceptable. It stops now. Thanks guys.

 

[Oryx]

If there hadn't been comments saying she deserved to die, she'd still be alive right okay I can see that.

Yes. Did you not watch the video? She spoke over and over again about how she had no one, about how people kept torturing her verbally online, even after she moved and tried to move on. Watch the video starting at 7:15. She writes about how she left her school (which wasn't her original school, mind, she had already changed schools to deal with this), was doing better, and then the cyber-bullying began again. So she tried to kill herself again. These comments were what caused her to try to kill herself, and in the end, to succeed.

Also if you watch the video, she was diagnosed with multiple mental disorders caused by the bullying. The bullying caused the mental disorders, and left her in a place where she felt her only escape was death.

I think he is saying, 'Go ahead and do what you want, but be ready to live with the mistakes.'

But he has a point. The only time we hear about cases like this is if the person made a youtube video beforehand. I've had a couple of friends kill themselves because of bullying, but they were ignored by the media because they would rather focus on the ones who made the youtube videos.

People need to remember this. The media isn't reporting this because they care. They are reporting this because they know it will get viewers.

The solution to "people that kill themselves are not given enough attention to solve the problems that are causing people to kill themselves" is not to tear down anyone who kills themselves and does get attention. All people are doing that continue to insult her, ****-shame her, and act like heartless misogynists after her death is showing other at-risk, troubled teens with mental issues that there is no sympathy anywhere and that they're alone in this world.

Why does it matter why the media is reporting this? The media is reporting this. Maybe it'll shock some people into giving a crap about people other than themselves, maybe it'll shock some parents into talking to their kids about how words can affect another person's life so profoundly. And hopefully it will spur people to find out who said these miserable things about her and contact them directly, possibly initiating legal action against them.

 

[Mr. X]

The solution to "people that kill themselves are not given enough attention to solve the problems that are causing people to kill themselves" is not to tear down anyone who kills themselves and does get attention. All people are doing that continue to insult her, ****-shame her, and act like heartless misogynists after her death is showing other at-risk, troubled teens with mental issues that there is no sympathy anywhere and that they're alone in this world.

Why does it matter why the media is reporting this? The media is reporting this. Maybe it'll shock some people into giving a crap about people other than themselves, maybe it'll shock some parents into talking to their kids about how words can affect another person's life so profoundly. And hopefully it will spur people to find out who said these miserable things about her and contact them directly, possibly initiating legal action against them.

It's how the media works. The vast majority of cases are ignored, in favor of the ones that will get people to view it. I'm not saying to tear them down, I'm saying that they need to stop focusing on only the most extreme cases.

We've had 'shock into action' stories before. Remember the gay kid who was bullied and commited suicide? We still have gays being bullied. And we still have gays commiting suicide. And we still have gay kids commiting suicide because of the bullying. If shock into action worked, then this would have stopped. But it hasn't.

 

[Oryx]

It's how the media works. The vast majority of cases are ignored, in favor of the ones that will get people to view it. I'm not saying to tear them down, I'm saying that they need to stop focusing on only the most extreme cases.

We've had 'shock into action' stories before. Remember the gay kid who was bullied and commited suicide? We still have gays being bullied. And we still have gays commiting suicide. And we still have gay kids commiting suicide because of the bullying. If shock into action worked, then this would have stopped. But it hasn't.

But those stories did cause a lot of outpouring of love online for people that are dealing with these kinds of things. I remember it. Well, I mean...outpouring of love except for people like Fireworks, lol. It was temporary but I'm sure the people that were helped by it don't care about how temporary it was. Each person isn't just their own person alone, they're more of a symbol of everyone else who isn't getting the media attention that killed themselves for the same reasons.

I agree, the media should focus on all children (realistically, all people) that kill themselves, in addition to all instances of discrimination, racism, sexism, classism, etc. To handle all of these though (I mean, just to cover suicides, there are over 30,000 deaths a year in the US alone), I feel there would need to be...some kind of social issues station that's 24 hours a day news covering all issues like this, issues that the mainstream media isn't willing to handle but affect the average person's life in that they can relate to a similar situation. Idk I'm just brainstorming how this would be balanced with other types of news that programs report on.

 

[Mr. X]

I understand Fireworks point though.

I am/was in the same situiation he was in, being the target for bullies when I was in school. For us though, we've lived through it. For us, having lived with the bullying, its hard to feel sympathy for a person who decides to kill themselves because of it. You know the saying, life gets better? For us, we've experienced it. Our lives were ****, but we lived through it.

But, for both of us, part of the reason why we don't feel sympathy for cases like this is also because we know that we could have just as easily given up on life. And we hate that.

 

[Oryx]

Every person is different. Some are naturally better able to deal with criticism in that way than others. Some have a support system outside of the bullying, or know where to get help. Some were raised differently than others.

And finally, most importantly, some have mental issues, and instead of having pity on the young girl that couldn't get over her mental issues to realize that she could make it through and things do get better, you're choosing to judge her life choices. This makes you no better than the bullies that caused her to kill herself, as they were passing the same kind of judgment, in the same kind of public spaces.

Whether or not you have sympathy has nothing to do with your history in bullying and everything to do with who you are as a human being.

 

[Mr. X]

So, you believe that a persons experiences play no part in shaping them and that a person is born with a predetermined view on life that can never change?

 

[Oryx]

I specifically pointed out in a list of things that would make your experience different from hers "Some were raised differently than others". How are you getting that I feel your experiences don't shape you?

 

[Mr. X]

Whether or not you have sympathy has nothing to do with your history in bullying and everything to do with who you are as a human being.

You said it yourself, our history plays no part in us having sympathy.

History plays a more important part in it. Our humanity doesn't automatically set our views in stone. Our humanity determines how we form views based on actions that we experienced.

Basically, while who we are as a human being may give us our initial views on something, our experiences will change them.

Edit - Ask any rape victim, or a person who knew someone who was murdered. I'll guarantee that they have a different view on those topics then they did before the events.

 

[AChipOffTheOldBrock]

Every person is different. Some are naturally better able to deal with criticism in that way than others. Some have a support system outside of the bullying, or know where to get help. Some were raised differently than others.

And finally, most importantly, some have mental issues, and instead of having pity on the young girl that couldn't get over her mental issues to realize that she could make it through and things do get better, you're choosing to judge her life choices. This makes you no better than the bullies that caused her to kill herself, as they were passing the same kind of judgment, in the same kind of public spaces.

Whether or not you have sympathy has nothing to do with your history in bullying and everything to do with who you are as a human being.

I suffer from Bipolar disorder and come from a broken and abusive household. I was raised very poorly. I understand mental issues. I also get the naturally better at dealing with criticism thing. I was raised in a worse environment than my sister with much less support than her and she has attempted suicide several times. I dont judge her for showing that guy her breasts or sleeping with those other guys. I dothink its stupid that she killed herself just because people made fun of her for it. I dont judge her for killing herself either. I mean if she was actually so miserable that she thought she was better off dead then fine, more power to her. It doesnt sound nearly that bad though. I just dont like how now that shes killed herself everyone feels bad for her and the fact that the Canadian government is actually threatening to arrest people for not feeling bad for her is ridiculous.

 

[Oryx]

The people that said the same things that caused her to kill themselves weren't bullied. You are not the victim here. When you are judging her on her choices, you are the aggressor. Your history has nothing to do with what you're saying now in that it's irrelevant, whether it not it shaped your opinion. It's irrelevant to the point at hand, which is your lack of sympathy for a girl that was chased through 3 schools and 2 attempted suicide attempts with words that are the same as the ones being said in this thread until she finally killed herself.

Edit: Brock, feel whatever you want. But keep it to yourself. You can think and feel whatever you want, but once those words leave your mouth you're held responsible for them.

 

[AChipOffTheOldBrock]

The people that said the same things that caused her to kill themselves weren't bullied. You are not the victim here. When you are judging her on her choices, you are the aggressor. Your history has nothing to do with what you're saying now in that it's irrelevant, whether it not it shaped your opinion. It's irrelevant to the point at hand, which is your lack of sympathy for a girl that was chased through 3 schools and 2 attempted suicide attempts with words that are the same as the ones being said in this thread until she finally killed herself.

I dont judge her on what she did. Except for killing herself. I shouldnt have to have sympathy for a girl who was so shallow she killed herself because some people made fun of her.

EDIT: and just because my opinion isnt "politically correct" I dont shouldnt be able to voice it? Hold me responsible for my words, I say what I think and feel.

 

[Karma Police]

I don't see the point of this argument. The fact that people think she was "shallow" and "idiotic" because she committed suicide over bullying. Everybody has their own sensitivity levels, their own tolerance levels. Some people get hurt over simple comments passed about them, while some can tolerate some real serious teasing/attacks. Everybody copes with depression and bullying differently, so you can't really judge somebody else based on how they coped with their life. Not everybody has that hope of "everything gets better in the end" because you can't really tell what a person is thinking when he/she goes through such a phase.

Another thing I thought about when people raised the point of "I coped with it, she should have too" - it's like your parents taking away all your gadgets and saying "I coped without them, so should you" or an unemployed guy getting you fired somehow and saying "I lived without a job, so should you". What I mean by these points is that just because an individual felt a certain way going through a certain phase in their life, doesn't mean everybody else should experience the same things as well.

As for the fact that the media only exposes extreme cases, I can't say anything about that. It's just the way the media works, unfortunately. They pick the cases most likely to shock audiences so that they can at least try to bring about a change in society. And even though a few measures have been made, it hasn't really worked out imo.

@Brock: It doesn't matter how she died, what matters is that it has resulted in the unnecessary loss of a life due to other individuals. I feel that the turning point was when she got bullied even after changing schools, I can understand why she must have felt even more bad. She wanted a fresh start, all she got was an even worse condition.

 

[Kura]

If she was being cyber bullied.. why did she even go online? : | I can see why her parents moved but.. why didn't they take away that internet access from her. Obviously if pictures were spread around then they'd know.

Call me a ***** but.. I don't find this to be a sad story, just an unfortunate one. The girl's worst mistake was to kill herself- but I think this story is being hyped to the point that.. it sort of loses it's point? Everyone is spreading it around and liking it as if they care, meanwhile they continue to bully and harass the people around them. I mean come on.

Spreading news of this isn't spreading awareness, people are just eating it up because they want to be seen as good people for "supporting" this story or this girl.


Might sound mean but I don't care about this girl. I didn't know her. She's dead now. What's there to do about it now? I care about the people getting bullied right now or the people I can directly support or affect. Let's do something about them!


Edit: I believe Brock should be able to voice his opinion, even if it's not the opinion of most. If he doesn't have sympathy, I think he should be able to voice he doesn't have sympathy and why. No offense Toujours, I get what you're saying about him sorta being an aggressor but I don't think he should have to be censored just because his opinion might be unpleasant :/..

 

[Live in Color]

I dont judge her on what she did. Except for killing herself. I shouldnt have to have sympathy for a girl who was so shallow she killed herself because some people made fun of her.

EDIT: and just because my opinion isnt "politically correct" I dont shouldnt be able to voice it? Hold me responsible for my words, I say what I think and feel.

From what I got from you, your sister attempted suicide, and you feel no sympathy for Amanda Todd, in fact you said "you're glad she's dead". Put two and two together for me please.

EDIT: And I'm not trying to be provocative, for the record, I just don't understand your reasoning and how the two situations relate to each other. Do you not feel sympathy for your sister? Would you not, had Amanda Todd been your sister despite what she did, even though it was a mistake?

 

[Mr. X]

Edit: Brock, feel whatever you want. But keep it to yourself. You can think and feel whatever you want, but once those words leave your mouth you're held responsible for them.

Funny. People should be held reponsable for their words, but not actions?

 

[Oryx]

Funny. People should be held reponsable for their words, but not actions?

Do you regret your words? Do you believe saying those words were a mistake? If so, I have no problem defending you like I am Amanda's action that got her in this mess to begin with. :) If you stand by them, then it is not the same situation.

Kura: I'm referring directly to his point on Canadian authorities looking into this. The people that bullied her knew what they had caused, as they were mocking her for attempting suicide. This is something that should be acted on. Freedom of speech should not be used to cause people to commit suicide. It's not about an unpleasant opinion, it's about harassment that caused the death of a young girl.

 

[AChipOffTheOldBrock]

From what I got from you, your sister attempted suicide, and you feel no sympathy for Amanda Todd, in fact you said "you're glad she's dead". Put two and two together for me please.

EDIT: And I'm not trying to be provocative, for the record, I just don't understand your reasoning and how the two situations relate to each other. Do you not feel sympathy for your sister? Would you not, had Amanda Todd been your sister despite what she did, even though it was a mistake?

Dont hate on me for this but honestly, I didnt feel sorry for my sister when she attempted suicide. I dont feel bad for Amanda Todd. Im not going to go into detail about it because my uncompassionate view got me banned from another forum. What is there in my reasoning not to understand?

I agree with everything Kura said. And toujours if you take away free speech when it "hurts a little girls feelings" then its not free speech is it?

 

[Kura]

Do you regret your words? Do you believe saying those words were a mistake? If so, I have no problem defending you like I am Amanda's action that got her in this mess to begin with. :) If you stand by them, then it is not the same situation.

Kura: I'm referring directly to his point on Canadian authorities looking into this. The people that bullied her knew what they had caused, as they were mocking her for attempting suicide. This is something that should be acted on. Freedom of speech should not be used to cause people to commit suicide. It's not about an unpleasant opinion, it's about harassment that caused the death of a young girl.

Oh yeah no, that's not cool. Though it would've been sooo much better if she was informed about the freaking legal system because she could've pressed charges.
Erica and I (along with a mutual friend) had something similar happen to us over something simple, (not getting up from the back seat of the bus) where a few "bullies" snapped, grabbed her, pushed her down and started punching her, and threatening to shoot/ stab all of us. No one else did anything. They would harrass us other times if they happened to catch the same bus, (over nothing, honestly) and afterwards we found out we were able to press charges, etc.

Either way, they ended up getting expelled. It sucks that this girl wasn't able to have that option, or at least, she didn't voice what was happening to her to the right people.

I think, though, the parents should have had more involvement. If I had a child and I knew she attempted suicide, I'd pull her out of school right then and there and put her in proper care and watch. I don't care how much money it would cost- it would be a child's life and that's precious.

 

[Oryx]

Dont hate on me for this but honestly, I didnt feel sorry for my sister when she attempted suicide. I dont feel bad for Amanda Todd. Im not going to go into detail about it because my uncompassionate view got me banned from another forum. What is there in my reasoning not to understand?

I agree with everything Kura said. And toujours if you take away free speech when it "hurts a little girls feelings" then its not free speech is it?

It didn't hurt a little girl's feelings. It caused the death of a young woman with mental issues. Harassment is a crime. Your speech is protected until it infringes on others. I would assume Amanda is just a bit infringed on, wouldn't you?

Kura I do agree with you on the internet part though. I have to wonder if she hid how bad it was from her family to try to deal with it on her own.