My Goal - Destroy all Sweepers! [RMT - Stall]

[Anti]

Um, I'm pretty sure Hippowdon is a PHazer.

Also, sleep is the last status I need. Toxic is much more valuable to inflict damage.

 

[sims796]

You rely too much on Toxic, IMO. At least have a way to deal with counters.

And I didn't notice you finally updated your damned first post.

EDIT:Changed more than I thought. Plume is no longer an issue in any sense of the word.

 

[Anti]

How do I rely on Toxic? Jirachi can sweep half the metagame and wall a lot of it too...Cress sets up Reflect, Snorlax can come in and stall for a few turns while SS takes its toll...I really don't see how I rely on Toxic too much. I only have it on one pokemon, seriously ._.

And is it really a crime that I want to put some thought into the changes I make?

 

[sims796]

And I just said those changes work. Try actually reading to see if things are changed in a post. It helps alot.

 

[Anti]

I posted before the edit ;p

Ack, I'll have to see if I have any more problems. My greatest weakness as a battler is my lack of attention to detail...in every battle I make some sort of mistake that usually doesn't kill me, but it can. This team doesn't leave room for that kind of error (as Loquacity beating me into the ground showed us), so I must wonder if this will work.

I'll test it out some more.

 

[Aquilae]

I feel that opposing walls pose a big problem to you. Particularly the spiking walls.

If SR is up, and Forretress comes in, it might Spike the field as Spiritomb comes in to block the spin, then switch to a Phazer as soon as Spiritomb starts CMing.

Skarmory will pose a big problem to this team, even moreso if Jirachi is down. Skarmory takes ~70% from Jirachi Thunderbolt, not enough to OHKO. Skarmory can come on Hippowdon/Snorlax easily, and can put up a layer of Spikes and phaze away.

Another issue is trappers, namely Dugtrio and Wobbuffet, the former which can come in on Jirachi and 2HKO it. Adamant CB Dugtrio does 83-98% to Jirachi, which would KO it or seriously weaken it to the point that you have lost your wish supporter and main counter to Skarm.

Wobbuffet could open up a hole in your team, to allow a set-upper to come in with ease, and without anything to deal with it other than Spiritomb.
Two varieties of Wobbuffet do major damage to your team, namely TickleWobb and Destiny Bond Wobbuffet, the former used in conjunction with a CB Pursuiter can take
down Hippowdon, Snorlax and Cresselia, and Spiritomb if it has used anything other than Shadow Ball.

Toxic Spikes also put a hole in this team, as you have nothing to absorb it or spin it, and no real ways of curing status other than Rest.

Opposing starters with Thunderbolt (Gengar, Jolteon, Zapdos) will often scare Gyarados away allowing a free turn. The one that is particularly dangerous is Gengar, as two varieties, SpecsGar and SashGar can serve to break walls, as Spec'd Shadow Ball puts a dent in this team with Snorlax unable to do anything to Gengar. SashGar can also put a dent given DBond/Hypnosis/Shadow Ball.

I suggest that a fast revenge killer be added to this team, as your team is rather slow, meaning Subseeders / slow sweepers would pose a threat to this team. In addition, some common wallbreakers - ChainChomp and Mixmence - would pose a significant threat to your team.

I feel that Jirachi is the weakest link to this team, and I suggest that it should be replaced with something else as Wish support isn't really essential to this team.

 

[Ársa]

Toxic Spikes puts a hole in the team? Gyarados and Cresselia are immune due to typing and Levitate respectively, Jirachi is immune and Spiritomb and Snorlax can both Rest off the damage. The only slight problem is Hippowdon, who can just Slack Off damage and switch once the residual becomes too great.

as Spec'd Shadow Ball puts a dent in this team with Snorlax unable to do anything to Gengar

Wha? Switch into Shadow Ball and Gengar must switch. o.0 It's stuck into Shadow Ball...lol

Again, Skarm cannot do much other than Spike and Phaze, so your logic that he runs into problems is a tad flawed. Jirachi takes it to the cleaners, so saying "Once Jirachi is gone" is like someone saying "Once this and this and this goes down, this pokemon will cause you this problem".

You have one main argument, and that is that he cannot seem to take residual damage. Could you not then say he should simply add a Rapid Spinner? You don't like Jirachi, that's fair enough, so how about Starmie then? Can Rapid Spin and provides a fast, revenge killing typed role and also has Natural Cure, so it is able to switch in and out of Toxic Spikes without problem.

I feel that Jirachi is the weakest link to this team, and I suggest that it should be replaced with something else as Wish support isn't really essential to this team.

A good point to make here. Yeah Anti, Wish support isn't that essential when you have almost every pokemon recovering on its own.

~T_S

 

[sims796]

Wobbuffet causes problems to every team. There is nothing that can be done about it. Saying Wobbuffet can come in and cause problems makes no sense, as it can come in and trap any pokes out there. And nothing can be done.

 

[Aquilae]

@T_S - Snorlax can't do anything to Gengar, and Gengar can't do anything to Snorlax either. I was just pointing out that Snorlax can't do anything to Gengar, but it's the only thing that does not take hits hard from Gengar. I feel that Crunch should be added over Body Slam, to deal with the aforementioned Gengar and to a lesser extent, CM Sub Mismagius. I don't know where to put a spinner in this team, so I didn't think I could help him there.

Wobbuffet causes problems to every team. There is nothing that can be done about it. Saying Wobbuffet can come in and cause problems makes no sense, as it can come in and trap any pokes out there. And nothing can be done.

What I intended to say is that he needed a bit more offense, something that can at least threaten Wobbuffet after a kill. As it stands, he has nothing on Wobbuffet except Spiritomb, which is unfortunately outspeeded by it, and Wobbuffet can Destiny Bond. Gyarados might poison it with Toxic, but Lum Berry is common on Wobbuffet.

I also felt the need for him to have a backup wall in case a pokemon could turn out to be a wallbreaker and could hamper his walling ability. I brought Wobb up as an example of a wallbreaker, as it could come in on any of these and threaten it. I feel that Wobbuffet discussion shouldn't carry over in this thread, and the fact is that:

• Wobbuffet is being used
• The team should be able to deal with it

I feel that the argument that when X pokemon is down, Y pokemon sweeps the team is not really flawed in this situation, as the main part of stall is countering your opponents pokemon, in order to wear them down.

After rereading the comments, I feel that Toxic Spikes should be added as it screws up many walls badly, and a Rapid Spinner is a welcome addition to it. I think the Ev's for Gyarados should be put into Special Defence, as Cresselia is a good counter to Infernape and Gyarados shouldn't be used to deal with Infernape.

 

[sims796]

But that applies to all teams. No team is truly prepared for Wobboo. At all. It can come in on a whim. Preparing for that is useless. No team is ever prepared for it, and no team can properly stop it.

As such, I rather liked Forry on this team, with it's wide array of Spiikes.

 

[Archer]

Wobbuffet causes problems to every team. There is nothing that can be done about it. Saying Wobbuffet can come in and cause problems makes no sense, as it can come in and trap any pokes out there. And nothing can be done.

Actually if Wobblyfoot gets Toxicked (new word) you can stall him out of HP, if he switches, he's gonna have to come back in on SR/Spikes later.

@TS - Starmie's Pursuit weakness is worrying me, esspecially with Cressy, too.

So we need a sturdy spinner, the half-viable options are:
Blastoise, Tentacruel, Hitmontop, Starmie, Kabutops, Forretress, Donphan and Claydol.

I would pick Tentacruel, but Blastoise is an option, as Starmie and Claydol have problems with Weavile. Blastoise can also use Haze. Just a suggestion...

 

[sims796]

Really? So every pokemon must carry Toxic? I don't wanna turn this into a Wobbo conversation, but those are half arsed ways of beating it. It can come in on those that CANNOT use Toxic, and since you can't swich, easy pickings for him. People tend to forget about his ability, and the fact that the human player will be smart enough to use it wisely, not on it's counters.

 

[Aquilae]

Really? So every pokemon must carry Toxic? I don't wanna turn this into a Wobbo conversation, but those are half arsed ways of beating it. It can come in on those that CANNOT use Toxic, and since you can't swich, easy pickings for him. People tend to forget about his ability, and the fact that the human player will be smart enough to use it wisely, not on it's counters.

sims, I strongly feel this is not the place to discuss about Wobbuffet. I apologise if my post made this RMT veer off-topic. Tickle Wobbuffet is pretty much a non-issue in WiFi, and the Shoddy staff are considering a ban on event moves such as this.

From what I see, Toxic Spikes would really benefit this team. I feel that Forretress or Tentacruel should be added to the team, the latter being able to act as a pseudo-Toxic Spikes remover. If laying down Toxic Spikes is a priority, leading with Forretress or Tentacruel might work.

Maybe Skarmory over Hippowdon? As far as I see, no one on your team really likes taking Sandstorm much except Jirachi. Sandstorm might allow Moonlight on Cresselia and using it as an alternative physical wall for Garchomp, while Skarmory can set up SR or Spikes, working just as well as Hippowdon.

If Skarmory is used then Snorlax should use Fire Punch.

 

[Anti]

Surprise surprise, Jirachi is the weakest link! REAL shocker there...as in, fire away suggestions.

Also, considering it's impossible to counter Wobbuffet (literally, Shadow Tag FTL) I'm not going to worry about it. Really, Wobby's standing in the OU tier is a total joke.

I'm thinking that maybe I should just stick with Forretress over Jirachi. Toxispikes could be cool and I really do miss the Spikes it provided. My only problem would be their lack of ability to recover off damage. Otherwise, I don't see any problem with switching things up.

Hippowdon...I don't really care if SS hurts my team in all honesty. Hippo is there because it is probably the best bulky ground type in the game.

Skarmory...ew. You see, attackers...yeah, I'm not so good with those. I'll ask you guys to come up with solutions, I'm finished thinking lol

 

[sims796]

sims, I strongly feel this is not the place to discuss about Wobbuffet. I apologise if my post made this RMT veer off-topic. Tickle Wobbuffet is pretty much a non-issue in WiFi, and the Shoddy staff are considering a ban on event moves such as this.

From what I see, Toxic Spikes would really benefit this team. I feel that Forretress or Tentacruel should be added to the team, the latter being able to act as a pseudo-Toxic Spikes remover. If laying down Toxic Spikes is a priority, leading with Forretress or Tentacruel might work.

Maybe Skarmory over Hippowdon? As far as I see, no one on your team really likes taking Sandstorm much except Jirachi. Sandstorm might allow Moonlight on Cresselia and using it as an alternative physical wall for Garchomp, while Skarmory can set up SR or Spikes, working just as well as Hippowdon.


If Skarmory is used then Snorlax should use Fire Punch.

First off, we weren't talking about Wobbo, but rather how he doesn't need to prepare for it. I don't see what's so off-topic about that. I also say he should keep Hippo, or Sandstorm in general. It's a great move to help stalling, and Moonlight won't work much, due to the other side of the battle using Ttar so much.

 

[Syaoran]

If you want TS that much why not use Roserade? It can Rest and switch for a free recovery.

 

[Anti]

Then Weavile will crap all over my team :(

Honestly, I think going crazy with replacements has caused more problems than it has solved. I have standardized testing tomorrow, so I'll have a good hour after the test to brainstorm. Ick, I'll hopefully think of something.

EDIT: The idea of a defensive Deoxys-E came into my head...spiker FTW? It also counters MixApe and Gyarados and has access to instant recovery, something Cress can't say. I'll also have a decent way to take out Skarmory. Thoughts?

 

[ABYAY]

Are you talking about Deoxys-Speed form? I faced one, and if it didn't get Taunt out on me before my Weavile Swords Danced, then GG to me...luckily I did, and it died after many Night Slashes. since Recover couldn't stop it.

It could be an option. Spikes + Cosmic Tank = win.

 

[Anti]

Well, Speed Deoxys would leave me open to random MixMence sweeps and Weavile would still be a little bugger, but I would have one slot to work with to take care of that problem. Regirock anyone?

Anyways, Speed Deoxys would look something like:

Deoxys-E @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: Something stallish
lol Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Spikes
- Recover

Decent coverage, Spikes support, Mixape/Gya counter...what's not to love?

 

[ABYAY]

I would suggest Bold nature because Waterfalling Gyarados needs to be owned. Your best bet is a 2hko without investing sp.atk as it does...

Damage: 267 - 314
Damage: 69.53% - 81.77% to Bulkdos....Expert Belt, if you were desperate enough...

Damage: 319 - 375
Damage: 83.07% - 97.66% to Bulkdos. Mind the fact that this almost guarantees OHKOs on all quick Gyarados.

Deoxys-E@Leftovers
Bold
252HP/168sp.def/88def (this set would give you 304HP, 258def, and 257sp.def I believe, plenty to let you take something like a non-boosted waterfall.)

Psychic
T-bolt
Spikes
Recover

I sorta BS'd that by going by max wild stats and making them look even. Hopefully it's a good suggestion. However, those stats only give you 396 max top speed without EVs, so you might wanna work off the EVs above if you wanna be quicker.