Chit-Chat: On Tuesdays Oryx and Triforce think it's Wednesday

[Aeroblast]

I like the new $100 bill (in America). We need to do away with the penny and probably replace our dollars with coins, but overall our money isn't bad. I hate touching any kind of money though. So dirty. :'(

I'm all for abolishing pennies like the way canada did, they're so worthless.

 

[Oryx]

I had a credit card when I was in 5th grade and some kid ran past my table and took my whole wallet from me as I was pulling money out of it and even though we searched everyone in the school we never found my wallet, my card, or the cash I had in it. I felt so bad about losing it that I didn't tell my mom for almost a month and by that time there was around 8,000 charged to it. I don't keep my cards on my person anymore, I only keep at most $100 in my wallet and my ID. Other than that my wallet is pretty empty.

People get credit cards in fifth grade??

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Yeah, that sounds like an opportunistic middle-aged woman blowing a ton of money on clothes at JC Penney's, not some guy. That sucks though. :/

The thing I find most interesting is her choice of merchandise, ergo clothes. 100% of all my textiles have come from Goodwill by choice, and I dare say I look good most of the time. It's just so, so wasteful IMO to choose apparel and fashion for an illegal purchase like that not just because of the alternatives to feeding greedy corporations who mark the hell out of their sweatshop goods, but the fact that fashion itself is ever-changing and there's no way that extravagant $13K wardrobe will be worth anything in a decade or two. :/

I had my first debit card in 9th grade, but it was ridden with pay-us-'cause-you-have-to money-for-nothing fees, and this past summer I got an actual credit card from my mother's private credit union. I feel a little bit special in the fact that you can't get membership unless you're active or retired military or have someone already with an account to vouch you in. :3

Private banks are just sickening.


Is it just me or does one of the samples in Kanye West's Guilt Trip sound like my video cassette head cleaner?

Kanye be cleanin' my VCR

 

[CoffeeDrink]

Banks. . . I am a responsible person. I have no debt. I have owned a house, two cars, I'm currently renting and I have some really nice things. I see something I want (Big Bike), I ask my bank of over five years to spot me: "You have no credit, so we can't do jack-all for you." What a piece of garbage. So the time I've spent with them means nothing, great. If I pay cash for everything people thank me, when I want to give them money at a later date, no going. I've always used cash or debit. Never trusted credit cards, so when I finally apply for one, I'm always disqualified. For everything. Not even a damn grocery store. . . something is very wrong here. Doesn't help that they hurt my nonexistent credit by checking, the bastards.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Banks. . . I am a responsible person. I have no debt. I have owned a house, two cars, I'm currently renting and I have some really nice things. I see something I want (Big Bike), I ask my bank of over five years to spot me: "You have no credit, so we can't do jack-all for you." What a piece of garbage. So the time I've spent with them means nothing, great. If I pay cash for everything people thank me, when I want to give them money at a later date, no going. I've always used cash or debit. Never trusted credit cards, so when I finally apply for one, I'm always disqualified. For everything. Not even a damn grocery store. . . something is very wrong here. Doesn't help that they hurt my nonexistent credit by checking, the bastards.

Well, you need a credit history o.o Dunno what else to say.


I'm largely cash and debit day-to-day, but I understand the importance of credit so I use it when purchasing online, have some reoccurring bill, gas (because then I get Air Miles XD)

 

[Oryx]

Banks. . . I am a responsible person. I have no debt. I have owned a house, two cars, I'm currently renting and I have some really nice things. I see something I want (Big Bike), I ask my bank of over five years to spot me: "You have no credit, so we can't do jack-all for you." What a piece of garbage. So the time I've spent with them means nothing, great. If I pay cash for everything people thank me, when I want to give them money at a later date, no going. I've always used cash or debit. Never trusted credit cards, so when I finally apply for one, I'm always disqualified. For everything. Not even a damn grocery store. . . something is very wrong here. Doesn't help that they hurt my nonexistent credit by checking, the bastards.

Okay I know you have a thing against credit but you need it and this is how you get it: secured credit cards. How they work is you have a savings account with the limit of the credit card always deposited in it, say 1000 bucks. Then you use the credit card as normal, paying it off and such. People will give you these cards because they know that if you don't pay them back they can take money out of that account so there's very little risk for them, and it builds your credit.

Without credit it's hard to get a car loan, a bank loan, a student loan, a mortgage, an apartment, basically anything that requires them to trust you to pay something regularly. With no credit they have no way of knowing if you can handle paying something back because you've never done it before, so you're a massive risk to them.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Without credit it's hard to get a car loan, a bank loan, a student loan, a mortgage, an apartment, basically anything that requires them to trust you to pay something regularly. With no credit they have no way of knowing if you can handle paying something back because you've never done it before, so you're a massive risk to them.

How about not getting any loans to begin with? There's an idea, and I think it was what he was getting at.

 

[Oryx]

How about not getting any loans to begin with? There's an idea, and I think it was what he was getting at.

Not really, based on trying to get a bike and complaining that the bank can't do anything for him. He could withdraw his money if he wasn't asking for a loan from them to buy the bike. Also he complained that "if he wants to give them money at a later date, no going", which is clearly...a loan. His complaint is that he has no credit because he pays cash or debit for everything so when he tried to actually take out a loan he was denied due to no credit.

There are lots of things where it makes no sense to take out a loan for them, but there's also good debt like when I needed a car to get back and forth from work but, due to not having the job yet, didn't have the money to pay for one up front that would actually be reliable, so I had to take out a loan to cover it that I'm paying back fairly quickly (took it out in June, should be paid back in September/October). Cars, houses, education, those things are often more efficiently paid for through loans, while proving that you can be responsible with debt in case something ever goes wrong and you need it.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

There are lots of things where it makes no sense to take out a loan for them, but there's also good debt like when I needed a car to get back and forth from work but, due to not having the job yet, didn't have the money to pay for one up front that would actually be reliable, so I had to take out a loan to cover it that I'm paying back fairly quickly (took it out in June, should be paid back in September/October). Cars, houses, education, those things are often more efficiently paid for through loans, while proving that you can be responsible with debt in case something ever goes wrong and you need it.

Umm, just one thing. More efficiently than what? Not buying them to begin with? Mortgages are a waste, four wheels and a seat for $2K will be cheaper in maintenance than a car payment, and education… your best bet is to get a scholarship from some fund, join the military, or be rich… of those three I'm sure the vast majority of the population are capable of as opposed to taking out a loan. My mother's still paying off a $2K loan from a single semester that over time has sextupled into well over 12,000 dollars. Interest is a ***** that need not be dealt with, really.

As far as circumstancial pinches like the one you described above go, knowing people really helps, and more than just in spotting money or whatever. A few years ago two friends of ours were there to give us rides when we had car troubles we couldn't deal with immediately, and it was a live saver. And unless you're living out in the sticks, why is a car really necessary? Most developed cities have more than sufficient public transportation in the event you don't "know a guy". There are so many more options aside from going in the red.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Umm, just one thing. More efficiently than what? Not buying them to begin with? Mortgages are a waste, four wheels and a seat for $2K will be cheaper in maintenance than a car payment, and education… your best bet is to get a scholarship from some fund, join the military, or be rich… of those three I'm sure the vast majority of the population are capable of as opposed to taking out a loan. My mother's still paying off a $2K loan from a single semester that over time has sextupled into well over 12,000 dollars. Interest is a ***** that need not be dealt with, really.

As far as circumstancial pinches like the one you described above go, knowing people really helps, and more than just in spotting money or whatever. A few years ago two friends of ours were there to give us rides when we had car troubles we couldn't deal with immediately, and it was a live saver. And unless you're living out in the sticks, why is a car really necessary? Most developed cities have more than sufficient public transportation in the event you don't "know a guy". There are so many more options aside from going in the red.

Then don't pay interest. Make the minimum payments on time

 

[Oryx]

Umm, just one thing. More efficiently than what? Not buying them to begin with? Mortgages are a waste, four wheels and a seat for $2K will be cheaper in maintenance than a car payment, and education… your best bet is to get a scholarship from some fund, join the military, or be rich… of those three I'm sure the vast majority of the population are capable of as opposed to taking out a loan. My mother's still paying off a $2K loan from a single semester that over time has sextupled into well over 12,000 dollars. Interest is a ***** that need not be dealt with, really.

As far as circumstancial pinches like the one you described above go, knowing people really helps, and more than just in spotting money or whatever. A few years ago two friends of ours were there to give us rides when we had car troubles we couldn't deal with immediately, and it was a live saver. And unless you're living out in the sticks, why is a car really necessary? Most developed cities have more than sufficient public transportation in the event you don't "know a guy". There are so many more options aside from going in the red.

Yeah, life is always easier when you have money and live near a support network. :) Unfortunately, not all of us are so lucky! As far as public transportation, it always seems like it would be nice, until you realize that once you get out of the big cities it's often unreliable, dangerous, and takes incredibly long. A trip that takes me 20 minutes by car would take me nearly 2.5 hours here, and it was the same when I lived in Jersey - with the addition that the bus hub was in one of the most dangerous cities in the entire country so it would inevitably add hours to my trip while putting me in danger. When you're already working 8 hours, if you're lucky like me and have a job that's a normal 8-5 office job and not a retail or restaurant job with longer hours, adding 4 onto it is incredibly draining. I know it doesn't seem that way when you don't actually have a job, but it's way more draining to work a job than to go to school, haha.

It's always easier to backseat drive someone's life, especially when you're not in a situation to have those experiences for yourself.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Then don't pay interest. Make the minimum payments on time

How does this work? Do you mean avoid incurring additional money onto the tab by paying the interest along with it? You're still paying interest :p

It'd be a lot more lucrative (and secure too) to have a decent cashflow and save for the things you want, pay in cash, and be done with it. The banks are ludicrous enough as it is. Obviously one can live without credit in the modern world, meaning debt is generally incurred by luxuries… and if they're luxuries you'll save a fortune by being your own creditor because in reality you can wait.

Yeah, life is always easier when you have money and live near a support network. :) Unfortunately, not all of us are so lucky! As far as public transportation, it always seems like it would be nice, until you realize that once you get out of the big cities it's often unreliable, dangerous, and takes incredibly long. A trip that takes me 20 minutes by car would take me nearly 2.5 hours here, and it was the same when I lived in Jersey - with the addition that the bus hub was in one of the most dangerous cities in the entire country so it would inevitably add hours to my trip while putting me in danger. When you're already working 8 hours, if you're lucky like me and have a job that's a normal 8-5 office job and not a retail or restaurant job with longer hours, adding 4 onto it is incredibly draining. I know it doesn't seem that way when you don't actually have a job, but it's way more draining to work a job than to go to school, haha.

It's always easier to backseat drive someone's life, especially when you're not in a situation to have those experiences for yourself.

Ah, that's exactly the point I was getting at. It's superfluous! You've just outlined that you can in fact continue what you're doing without the debt of a car, but at the expense of comfort and personal security. I used to ride the bus for two hours every day to stay at a good school, and by that I mean the city bus. To get to that bus stop I had to either cross a drainage ditch often snowed or iced over or go around my elbow to get to my ass by taking the intersection which adds an hour to my commute. The school was worth the pain, trouble, and danger of taking that ride and paying the fares, believe me.

 

[Oryx]

Two hours != four hours, and school != work. I never said debt wasn't superfluous in some cases - if I really really really needed to, I could live without a car. I could take the gamble and spend 500 on a car and hope it doesn't break down in a year, if it was necessary. But it is better, more efficient with my time, and makes more logical sense to take out a small loan and get something I can rely on and save massive amounts of time, allowing me to improve myself in my free time or work more to make more money.

Just because you can do something one way doesn't mean it's the best way! I could ride a unicycle to work every day, doesn't mean if I did that I'd be making the best decision I can make with my time and money.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Two hours != four hours, and school != work.

So, you've resorted to arguing degree. Hm. I still stand by the fact that it's a waste 100% of the time. Not 98% of the time, not 50% of the time.. My point still stands.

More information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy

I never said debt wasn't superfluous in some cases - if I really really really needed to, I could live without a car. I could take the gamble and spend 500 on a car and hope it doesn't break down in a year, if it was necessary.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_probability

Just because you can do something one way doesn't mean it's the best way! I could ride a unicycle to work every day, doesn't mean if I did that I'd be making the best decision I can make with my time and money.

Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

In general: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_fallacy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification_(fallacy), and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

[Oryx]

So you've resorted to not making any real points. Put it this way: the loan I took out was for 3500, give or take. I'm saving 20 hours a week with it. If you pay it off through an average 48 month repayment period with an average 4% interest, it's 79 a month, or roughly $0.43 per hour on the road. My time is worth far, far more than $0.43 an hour. The things I could be doing are worth more than $0.43. Maybe your time is worth nothing because all you do is screw around, that's your call! Or maybe you just devalue yourself and it is worth something but you don't see the value in having more time so it doesn't occur to you that way. But I'm confident that my decision to take out a loan was the most responsible way of spending my money. Whether someone without any actual experience in serious money management disagrees is pretty irrelevant.

For the record, referencing something having a risk involved does not mean I'm assuming the risk would happen (and my points were very relevant), so either you don't understand what I'm saying or you don't understand what you're saying. :)

 

[Kurono]

Can I trouble you guys to start appending tl;dr's to your text-walls?

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

So you've resorted to not making any real points. Put it this way: the loan I took out was for 3500, give or take. I'm saving 20 hours a week with it. If you pay it off through an average 48 month repayment period with an average 4% interest, it's 79 a month, or roughly $0.43 per hour on the road. My time is worth far, far more than $0.43 an hour. The things I could be doing are worth more than $0.43. Maybe your time is worth nothing because all you do is screw around, that's your call! Or maybe you just devalue yourself and it is worth something but you don't see the value in having more time so it doesn't occur to you that way. But I'm confident that my decision to take out a loan was the most responsible way of spending my money. Whether someone without any actual experience in serious money management disagrees is pretty irrelevant.

For the record, referencing something having a risk involved does not mean I'm assuming the risk would happen (and my points were very relevant), so either you don't understand what I'm saying or you don't understand what you're saying. :)

Maybe you don't understand what I'm arguing. I really don't care how convenient or inconvenient it is, my point is that it's not a requirement and can be done without; in more formed English that means you're standing on an appeal to probability. The "points I wasn't making" above were outlining issues with your arguing form; in your shoes I'd take them as suggestions. :)

 

[Oryx]

Please submit your advice in triplicate through line E14 and you will receive a response in 12-16 weeks. Have an Oryxiffic day!

 

[Nathan]

Can I trouble you guys to start appending tl;dr's to your text-walls?

I second this wonderful guy.

 

[Oryx]

Can I trouble you guys to start appending tl;dr's to your text-walls?

tl;dr Oryx was here, Kur is a loser