Super Smash Bros. Discussion

[Nah]

Ah, I figured they'd get rid of the Wectoring thing. And I'm so glad that they nerfed the Bowsercide thing, that was so annoying.

I did just do a match as Ike, and he does seem a little faster. Just a little. Either that or I'm imagining it because I was told he's faster.

 

[El Héroe Oscuro]

Ah, I figured they'd get rid of the Wectoring thing. And I'm so glad that they nerfed the Bowsercide thing, that was so annoying.

I did just do a match as Ike, and he does seem a little faster. Just a little. Either that or I'm imagining it because I was told he's faster.

So many time's I lost in For The Glory because people would do that. I'm happy they got rid of Bowserciding.

 

[GreenFlame]

I've also heard that they nerfed Greninja's lag cancel with Shadow Sneak or something. I think that before you could cancel his down air lag by using Shadow Sneak, and they completely removed that. I can't confirm this either until I test it, but I think it's made some Greninja mains upset.

 

[LauriJ]

So, who is your favourite amongst the new characters? I think both Rosalina and Duck Hunt Dog are awesome in their own way.

 

[GreenFlame]

So, who is your favourite amongst the new characters? I think both Rosalina and Duck Hunt Dog are awesome in their own way.

Rosalina is an awesome character, but I just think she was a bit OP so I'm kind of glad she got nerfed because 8 seconds wasn't long enough of a reward for taking out her Luma. Duck Hunt Duo is just flat-out annoying to fight for me, and I don't like them as a character either (sorry).

My favourite Newcomers...
Little Mac
Rosalina and Luma
I think that's it, though I like the addition of Miis.



About 1.0.4 more stuff has been confirmed, Mega Man's Leaf Shield has a lot less ending lag upon throwing it, which means it's actually USABLE now. Sheik's Bouncing Fish has been nerfed to deal less knockback, and personally I think that nerf was uncalled for.

EDIT: THEY NERFED SHEIK'S UP AIR, I'M VERY UPSET ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IT WAS VERY SATISFYING TO KILL WITH THAT MOVE! Also, they buffed Luigi's F-smash by 1%.

 

[Necrum]

I needed to post because lol 1%

 

[Nah]

About 1.0.4 more stuff has been confirmed, Mega Man's Leaf Shield has a lot less ending lag upon throwing it, which means it's actually USABLE now. Sheik's Bouncing Fish has been nerfed to deal less knockback, and personally I think that nerf was uncalled for.

EDIT: THEY NERFED SHEIK'S UP AIR, I'M VERY UPSET ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IT WAS VERY SATISFYING TO KILL WITH THAT MOVE! Also, they buffed Luigi's F-smash by 1%.

IDK, I'm a bit glad they nerfed a couple of Sheik's moves a bit. probably only because Sheik players tend to wreck me online

Has anything else been confirmed though?

 

[GreenFlame]

IDK, I'm a bit glad they nerfed a couple of Sheik's moves a bit. probably only because Sheik players tend to wreck me online

Has anything else been confirmed though?

Apparently they removed DACUS (Dash attack cancelled up-smash), which involved using a dash-attack then cancelling it with an up-smash. It was very useful for every character, and now it's gone.

UPDATE: Please don't take any of this information as "confirmed". See this post by me.

Here's a changelist of changes discovered by the community for character related changes, taken from this Smashboards thread.

Zero Suit Samus:

Spoiler:

Hitbox fixes:
- Side-b works better now; the first hit doesn't launch directly into the sweet-spot in earlier versions. Also recovers faster due to more interruptable frames.
- Forward Smash connects better and is easier to sweetspot, working better on Greninja among others. It is a little safer on block now.
- Neutral air has a different subtly knockback angle now which makes some old combos not work but enables some new (better) ones.
- Down Smash is safer on block, enough that you can jab before the opponent can drop their shield
- Up-B connects better from down throw now (in the air).
- Down throw knockback is different; it starts lower, and instead instead of growing to eventually become more vertical, they are now launched at a set distance in front Zero Suit and the growth is vertical from that set point. I don't know how to explain this in technical terms, but opponents are no longer at a very vertical point from Zero Suit at high % after down throw.
- Zair recovery tether distance reduced when above the stage or too far below the stage. When she is lateral with the stage it is the same.
- Airdodge landing lag increased to 22f of lag from 15
- Paralyzer Shot's uncharged shot has a few more frames of recovery. Full charge is unaffected.
- Can no longer footstool infinite Robin.

Customs:
- Blast Shot and Spreading Shot can now be released before being charged fully.
- Spreading Shot now lasts long enough for ZSS to get a follow-up
- Whip Lash got the same buff as normal side-b, it is interruptable from an earlier point
- Impact Kick now properly absorbs the target so that the final hit connects properly
- Lateral Kick now allows ZSS full aerial movement during special fall
- Low Flip travels faster across the field

Sheik:

Spoiler:

FAIR DAMAGE : 6.8% ⇒ 5.5%
SOURSPOT FAIR DAMAGE : 6% ⇒ 4.8%
UAIR NUMBER OF HITS : 5 ⇒ 4
UAIR DAMAGE : 8% ⇒ 7%​
- Bouncing Fish knockback decreased, killing Mario at 131% from 111%
- Uair knockback decreased, killing ~26% later 6.8%

Rosalina and Luma:

Spoiler:

EARLY NAIR DAMAGE : 6% ⇒ 5%
LATE NAIR DAMAGE : 10% ⇒ 7.5%
LUMA RESPAWN : 8.9 seconds ⇒ 12.5 seconds
LUMA RECALL : Returns to Rosalina faster
LUMA SHOT : Uncharged and lightly charged Luma Shot has slightly less distance
DSMASH : Ending lag increased
GRAB : Whiff animation ending lag increased
​
- Dtilt has no hitbox on her head anymore
- Dsmash cooldown increased
- Luma shot and Luma callback endlag decreased
- Nair damage (6% -> 5%, 10% -> 7%) and knockback (94->86, 125->103)
- Upsmash Knockback decreased (147->135)
- Fsmash Knockback slightly decreased (154->149)
- Rosalina's up smash has different knockback, either less in general or simply at a different angle
- Luma can attack while Rosalina is being pummeled, but it cannot attack while a throw animation is in progress.

Wii Fit Trainer:

Spoiler:

AIR DODGE LANDING LAG : 12 frames ⇒ 22 frames
- Back hit of Fair no longer goes through shields but does significant shield damage now

Mr. Game and Watch:

Spoiler:

- Bucket no longer charges to full with Pikachu's Thunder!!

Little Mac:

Spoiler:

JAB 2 : Damage reduced by ~1%
JAB 3 : Damage reduced by ~1%
JAB COMBO : Overall damage significantly reduced
AERIAL SIDE B : Distance has been reduced by 10% and slower speed​

Yoshi:

Spoiler:

NEUTRAL B : Slightly longer start-up.
DASH ATTACK : Slightly more ending lag.
DAIR LANDING LAG : Slightly more landing lag.
DOWN B : No longer slides on slopes.
BUGFIX : Teleggporting removed.​

Okay, screw this, I just realised how many characters have been changed, and I am not gonna go to the effort of copy-pasting every single characters changes. If you'd like to see the rest, go to the Smashboards thread I linked above.

Also keep in mind that these are only the ones that have been discovered, there may be more changes that are yet to be discovered. Alternatively, Nintendo could just release patch notes so everyone knows what's changed, but nope, they decide to be vague YET AGAIN.




I just saw the rest of the nerfs Sheik got, and I think I might cry. Seriously though, that's just unfair. They nerfed her U-air like hell, and nerfed her F-air and Bouncing Fish, and it's not something I'm happy about at all.
They also nerfed Mac's jab, which I am more understanding about.

 

[Nah]

Gave the OP of that thread a look. I can't say I completely understand the finer points of Smash, but nothing horrendous happened imo. Er, well, I wish that that hadn't buffed Falco's blaster, but whatcha supposed to do?

Someone's gonna have to explain this one to me though:

Robin: Footstool glitch allowing an infinite has been fixed.​

And I agree, Nintendo should just give us detailed patch notes already. What's so hard about that?

 

[blue]

Super Smash Bros. for Wii U scored 96/100 on Metacritic so far

That's actually one of the best scores I've ever seen, the only other score beating that is GTA V which is only one point higher. Albiet this is early days, but so far things are looking good!

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

So Sakurai finally reveals his reasons on why Ridley wasn't playable yet again: http://playeressence.com/sakurai-sa...s-would-take-a-lot-of-convoluted-hocus-pocus/

At least now I can hope for a DK rep now that DLC is a thing, but I feel really bad for the Metroid fanbase, since there really isn't anyone important from the series left who has potential to be playable (Mother Brain and Dark Samus being assist trophies, and Ridley being a stage hazard).

 

[Disolia]

I'm honestly not sure how games like GTA V even get such high rating, then again I've never actually been a fan of the GTA franchise.

 

[GreenFlame]

UPDATE: I've since found out that the majority of the ZSS information from that thread and my earlier post is untrue. There are many people suffering from the Placebo effect, so I advise everyone to take any of the "confirmed" information about any of the characters in that thread or anywhere else with a grain of salt, unless it's confirmed by me doing tests or another reliable source, or anyone else who has confirmed it with side-by-side tests.

Of course, none of this would be necessary if Nintendo would just release patch notes...

 

[GreenFlame]

Gave the OP of that thread a look. I can't say I completely understand the finer points of Smash, but nothing horrendous happened imo. Er, well, I wish that that hadn't buffed Falco's blaster, but whatcha supposed to do?

Someone's gonna have to explain this one to me though:

"Robin: Footstoll glitch allowing an infinite has been fixed."


And I agree, Nintendo should just give us detailed patch notes already. What's so hard about that?

Footstool Jumping is where you input a jump while directly above someone's head. It will propel you up a fair distance and they will tumble a short distance, possibly to their death (unless they're on the ground when you jump on them). And no, it's not a glitch (obviously, lol).

As for what the a actual Robin infinite is, I have no idea. But it was clearly unintended, because they fixed it (according to that thread).

EDIT: Sorry for double-posting.




EDIT again: Decided I'll make this post of confirmed information:

Information I can confirm about the update:

• Using Flying Slam as Bowser on an opponent and taking them offstage now KOs Bowser first
• Luigi's forward smash deals 1% more damage, and 2% more when fully charged
• Rosalina and Luma's Luma respawn time increased from 8 seconds to 13 seconds
• Luma returns to Rosalina faster upon being called back
• Ness' down throw deals 7% damage, as opposed to previous 9%
• Falco's blaster on the ground now fires faster than before
• Sheik's up air KOs later

Information that is probably true, but is yet to be confirmed by me:

• DACUS (Dash attack cancelled up smash) has been removed
• Vectoring (also known as VI or Vector Influence) has been removed for vertical knockback only; traditional Directional Influence is necessary now
• Wectoring (the Wario momentum glitch) has been fixed
• Lag cancelling has been removed (e.g you can no longer cancel Greninja's lag aerials with Shadow Sneak, or Link's by using bombs)

We'll see more as we discover more. I refuse to post anything under "Information I can confirm about the update" that I am any bit unsure about or I have not confirmed.

 

[Rellek]

Actually vectoring hasn't been removed entirely. It has been removed for vertical based knockbacks, but not horizontal ones.

When getting hit by an attack that sends you to the sides or corners, holding up actually INCREASES the amount of knockback you receive while holding down (While being a terrible DI direction) LESSENS the knockback you receive.

It seems to me that this was put into place to make it more difficult for people to live. They saw how much DI can influence people living or dying (mostly living if you're good) and said "Hey! Stop holding up and to the corner when you're hit, because now it's going to help kill you."

 

[Aven]

Yay! Our first (semi) major update! Actually changing some character stuff. And yes, I wish Nintendo would at least put a link to their website with all of the things that have been tweaked and changed. I also wish they wouldn't put in secrets to the game that never get found until a year or so later, but that's Nintendo for you.

I agree that Sheik's fish jump move thing (assuming it is true) Was a little uncalled for, since I was SO bad at landing that thing anyway. I personally haven't fought many Sheik's online before, But I suppose if Nintendo got multiple complaints that the launching power of it was too much and people WERE constantly getting easily KOed, then I could understand. But if not? Way uncalled for. I also can't speak for her Up Air because I don't play her often and I don't honestly know how it does or did, but sorry anyway. I'm guessing sad stuff like that is going to happen pretty regularly, but unlike most games I'm pretty sure Nintendo will do a great job of keeping us happy too by fixing stuff we've been annoyed by :) So don't think that this is totally the end for Smash just because you feel uncomfortable with your characters new move style.

Has anything major, or anything at all changed with Marth? I feel like there's really nothing they can do to hurt Marth just because they nerfed him so much already, but I'm soooo hoping they fix him.

 

[GreenFlame]

Has anything major, or anything at all changed with Marth? I feel like there's really nothing they can do to hurt Marth just because they nerfed him so much already, but I'm soooo hoping they fix him.

There's been rumours, like they made his d-air meteor easier to land, or they slightly improved the speed of some of his attacks, but as far as I know there's been nothing confirmed. I will update this post if I do find out anything. (I wish they would improve the length of his sword just a tiny bit)
EDIT: It appears nothing has changed specifically about Marth, but the removal of vertical Vectoring is technically a huge indirect buff to Marth because of how it will be easier to juggle opponents and land Dancing Blade etc.

About Sheik, basically her u-air was her primary juggling tool, and they nerfed it to do less hits, less knockback, and less damage. It was also a great kill move, but now it's less so.

Bouncing Fish used to be able to take a stock early if you hit them while they're offstage - I've heard it's a lot harder to do that now because of the nerfed knockback. It was also a good kill move at high-ish percents, but it's now harder to kill with.

 

[Saeran]

Don't have it myself but played on a friends DS and it was FUN!

 

[Aven]

Thank god they fixed the Luma spawn. That was a huge nerf (and a very good/needed one) In my opinion. Those Rosalina's shouldn't be too tough now Flame :p

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

So I've been hearing some nasty comments on how unfair the CPUs are at higher difficulties on the Wii U version compared to the 3DS version. I had my fair share of these brutal CPUs on Event Mode when trying to beat the last two matches on a hard difficulty.