4th Gen The final boss in this game sucks

[Chaos Rush]

The Red in this game is just RED. He's not Ash. Not Manga Red. Just Red. Jeesh.

He's fine the way he is. Having the Kanto Starters makes it epic, I think. Gives him a sense of accomplishment to me.

The fact that Red is not Ash is why Red shouldn't even have an extremely weak Pikachu on his team. Having Pikachu and all 3 starters makes him too similar to Ash, and that's not how the creators of Pokemon originally intended it to be. There's a reason why you can only choose one starter in the original Pokemon games.

 

[SkyShaymin98]

I'd say that,well,Red is Red, and I think that changes don't matter unless the pokemon doesn't deserve the spot in the most powerful pokemon trainer's team.

 

[LethalTexture]

The fact that Red is not Ash is why Red shouldn't even have an extremely weak Pikachu on his team. Having Pikachu and all 3 starters makes him too similar to Ash, and that's not how the creators of Pokemon originally intended it to be. There's a reason why you can only choose one starter in the original Pokemon games.

Did you ever play Pokémon Yellow?

 

[bobandbill]

The fact that Red is not Ash is why Red shouldn't even have an extremely weak Pikachu on his team. Having Pikachu and all 3 starters makes him too similar to Ash, and that's not how the creators of Pokemon originally intended it to be. There's a reason why you can only choose one starter in the original Pokemon games.

Wait - not how the creators of Pokemon originally intended it to be? How do you know that? At any rate, the creators of the main Pokemon games (Game Freak) gave him that team not only in GSC, but HG/SS and quite intentionally as well I'd imagine... it's their choice in the end. Pikachu being weak is IMO just subjective, and again feel that HG/SS is a GSC remake - hence the near identical teams in both sets of games.

 

[Chaos Rush]

Did you ever play Pokémon Yellow?

To be honest, I don't give a sh*t about Pokémon Yellow. Its' a fan-service game based on the stupid anime. I said the original Pokemon games, the ones that were first released. Yellow is not one of the original Pokemon games. If the anime was never made, then Yellow would have never been made. Now in Japan, the first two Pokemon games were Red & Green. The original third Pokemon game was Blue. Pokemon Yellow in Japan is regarded as an extra-fourth game (something that will never happen again), and when the games were being localized, they decided to use the Japanese Blue version to provide the engine (which is why the graphics in the US Red & Blue are different than the Japanese Red & Green), but essentially they are the same. For some reason they renamed Green version to Blue version, and decided to use Yellow as the third game.

If the anime was never made, there would have never been a Yellow version to start with, since Japan already had 3 versions. Obviously, in the Japanese Blue version, you don't start out with Pikachu, you have a choice of Bulbasaur, Charmander, or Squirtle. Blue version in Japan is just like Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum, an upgrade of the original paired versions. Notice how in Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum, the playable character doesn't look like Ash, and you don't start out with a Pikachu, the starters are the same as the paired versions.

You see, I hate the anime, and I hate how some people think that Red and Ash are the same people.

Wait - not how the creators of Pokemon originally intended it to be? How do you know that? At any rate, the creators of the main Pokemon games (Game Freak) gave him that team not only in GSC, but HG/SS and quite intentionally as well I'd imagine... it's their choice in the end. Pikachu being weak is IMO just subjective, and again feel that HG/SS is a GSC remake - hence the near identical teams in both sets of games.

Again, take a look at this picture:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_Red_and_Green_beta#Female_player_character

Notice how Red has a Bulbasaur, not a Pikachu. Green actually has a starter, unlike his team in HG/SS. That was concept art for the original Pokemon games (which was drawn WAY before the anime was even thought of), and obviously, if they intended for Red to always have Pikachu, they would have made you start out with Pikachu in Red & Green, but they chose not to simply because they didn't want to do that.

 

[Mr.Silver]

Spoiler:

To be honest, I don't give a sh*t about Pokémon Yellow. Its' a fan-service game based on the stupid anime. I said the original Pokemon games, the ones that were first released. Yellow is not one of the original Pokemon games. If the anime was never made, then Yellow would have never been made. Now in Japan, the first two Pokemon games were Red & Green. The original third Pokemon game was Blue. Pokemon Yellow in Japan is regarded as an extra-fourth game (something that will never happen again), and when the games were being localized, they decided to use the Japanese Blue version to provide the engine (which is why the graphics in the US Red & Blue are different than the Japanese Red & Green), but essentially they are the same. For some reason they renamed Green version to Blue version, and decided to use Yellow as the third game.

If the anime was never made, there would have never been a Yellow version to start with, since Japan already had 3 versions. Obviously, in the Japanese Blue version, you don't start out with Pikachu, you have a choice of Bulbasaur, Charmander, or Squirtle. Blue version in Japan is just like Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum, an upgrade of the original paired versions. Notice how in Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum, the playable character doesn't look like Ash, and you don't start out with a Pikachu, the starters are the same as the paired versions.

You see, I hate the anime, and I hate how some people think that Red and Ash are the same people.


Again, take a look at this picture:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pokémon_Red_and_Green_beta#Female_player_character

Notice how Red has a Bulbasaur, not a Pikachu. Green actually has a starter, unlike his team in HG/SS. That was concept art for the original Pokemon games (which was drawn WAY before the anime was even thought of), and obviously, if they intended for Red to always have Pikachu, they would have made you start out with Pikachu in Red & Green, but they chose not to simply because they didn't want to do that.

.......Oh for the love of.......
Ok Ash is BASED On Red.The anime was not actually MADE by nintendo (only licenced).the whole Red is ash thing is sorta ........Old.
As for the "Beta".That was for the MANGA. ......

 

[Phaux]

Well, as I've seen people state... The games are not based on the manga, it is more vice versa, hence Game Freak has many liberties with Red's team.

If the games were based on the manga, G/S/C/HG/SS would have to fight Mask of Ice, escape from the Elite Four, as well as many other things, and in R/G/B/LG/FR, Red would have battled and defeated Giovani, who had Mewtwo, battled and lost to Mew, and there would be Green(Or a Red if you picked Green, then again, Green didn't do those things) in the game as well.

Despite all of this, Red, in G/S/C/HG/SS is more of a reference to Red in the manga, not an exact copy, and also to Ash in the anime, who was based on, but not a real copy either, of Red.

 

[Chaos Rush]

Spoiler:

.......Oh for the love of.......
Ok Ash is BASED On Red.The anime was not actually MADE by nintendo (only licenced).the whole Red is ash thing is sorta ........Old.
As for the "Beta".That was for the MANGA. ......

No. First of all, I am fully aware that Ash is not Red, and that Red was made by Nintendo (it's pretty obvious). That's the whole point of why Red shouldn't have a Pikachu, because HE'S NOT ASH.

As for this picture:

That picture has absolutely nothing to do with the manga. THAT PICTURE WAS MADE WAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE THE ANIME OR THE MANGA WAS EVEN THOUGHT OF. Seriously, I didn't even mention the manga in my previous post, and you bring it up for no reason.

 

[bobandbill]

Can't say I'm convinced that because of early pictures (and they could have chosen to give Red one of the other two starters instead in that picture), that there is still anything 'wrong' with Red's team in HG/SS (and GSC). Things change and Yellow is still treated with canon by Game Freak themselves if they chose to use that as a basis for his final team then and now (Yellow is pretty much like the other games bar a few elements that were anime inspired... but I haven't seen many think that Red is actually Ash in the end, tbh - maybe you've just happened to see more people with that mindframe?) Maybe you feel he shouldn't have a team inspired by Ash's team... but in the end, the people who make the games thought they should, and were happy to go with it again. Each to his/her own, but I don't really see why a team that bears similarities to the anime and doesn't follow some early art really matters too much. Mindsets change after all and if the idea for him to have so-and-so Pokemon changed (and it did more or less), then there's not much they can do about it, nor is there much wrong with that IMO. *shrugs*

And it'd probably be best if this doesn't deviate too much from the thread topic of whether Red 'sucks' or not - I see how this may go off-topic onto the manga or whatnot so just a reminder, people.

 

[Chaos Rush]

Maybe you feel he should have a team inspired by Ash's team...

NO. That would be one of the worst ideas EVER. I hate the anime, and I think Red's team should be completely different from Ash's.

 

[Mr.Silver]

No. First of all, I am fully aware that Ash is not Red, and that Red was made by Nintendo (it's pretty obvious). That's the whole point of why Red shouldn't have a Pikachu, because HE'S NOT ASH.

But you can catch a pikachu in Viridian forest,And pikachu is a good pokemon to have as its the first electric type pokemon you see for a while in Gen I.....So your comment lacks sense...

NO. That would be one of the worst ideas EVER. I hate the anime, and I think Red's team should be completely different from Ash's.

But thats makes no sense.Red has a completly different team to ash.
Ash never CAUGHT lapras,just helped it.Red on the other hand did.
Ash's squirtle and bulbasaur evolved. Red's did.
Red USES his Snorlax.Ash RARELY does.

 

[bobandbill]

NO. That would be one of the worst ideas EVER. I hate the anime, and I think Red's team should be completely different from Ash's.

Derp, typo. >_< Meant... 'Maybe you feel he shouldn't have a team inspired by Ash's team' or something along those lines. (And again, comes down to personal opinion, I suppose - not everyone hates the anime anyways. Myself... I don't watch it, so eh. I like the change of Espeon to Lapras, and the decision to keep the team the same as it was in GSC bar that change, personally, Pikachu or not.)

 

[MizuJosh]

Pikachu is Pokémon's mascot, though. Quit whining over it. There's nothing you can do about it now. Red in the manga has a Pikachu. Ash has a Pikachu. So. What.

Gamefreak made this game. Apparently it didn't matter to them.

 

[Kudo]

No. First of all, I am fully aware that Ash is not Red, and that Red was made by Nintendo (it's pretty obvious). That's the whole point of why Red shouldn't have a Pikachu, because HE'S NOT ASH.

As for this picture:

That picture has absolutely nothing to do with the manga. THAT PICTURE WAS MADE WAAAAAAAAAAY BEFORE THE ANIME OR THE MANGA WAS EVEN THOUGHT OF. Seriously, I didn't even mention the manga in my previous post, and you bring it up for no reason.

I can see your argument for pikachu, at best. But even with this picture, one was given a choice to get bulbasaur, squirtle, OR charmander. With your logic on this picture, then perhaps Bulbasaur should've been the ONLY choice provided? I think not. Red (game) was more of an opponent to resemble MC from Gen I. But since they had given the option to get any of the 3 at the start of Gen I, the creators of the game couldn't possibly find a way for the game to read your mind on an option you chose during a different game so they went for broke and threw in all three. Although it may seem like it's just a step closer to Ash, keep in mind Venasaur, Blastoise, and Charizard are still the 3 original mascots of Gen I, and symbolize THAT more than Ash's team (it'd also be good to note Ash never evolved Squirtle or Charmander with explanations why each of them wouldn't evolve. Thus to base Red's team, who has them all in their evolved forms, on those three would be silly).

And although you dislike the anime and Pokemon Yellow's obvious base from it, Pokemon Yellow is STILL an official pokemon game, whether you like it or not. And from the anime and such you should also know that Pikachu is the most common mascot of pokemon (in general, not just the games) of all (let's face it, there are more pikachu dolls than venasaur dolls). And still in Gen I. So what better way to sum up Generation 1 with only 6 pokemon? The 4 main mascots. And Snorlax, having been a memorable in-game event pokemon was a pretty good choice too. In the orignal Gen II I always saw Espeon as a "oh, so he went to Johto too" pokemon. Lapras in HG/SS for the Hail & Blizzard deal to give the AI something to work with. I'm fine with either really.

As far as pikachu being overly weak...let's look at Red's pikachu shall we?

Level 88, Item: Light Ball
Iron Tail
Thunderbolt
Volt Tackle
Quick Attack

To take this out with anything <60 (keep in mind, unless you've been specifically grinding for this guy, my pokemon weren't even level 50 yet). With it's high speed, that thing can basically SWEEP unless you have something like Steelix (which should be properly EV trained and minimum level of 50 to 2HKO Pikachu with EQ). Did I mention the AI is no longer that stupid? It caught me off-guard when he changed to Charizard to avoid EQ. If you think about it, it then sets you up to have something with EQ which will most likely be rock or ground, rock which gets creamed by Iron Tail, or electricity can hit it, ground...3 of his pokemon have blizzard/hail. The only real fail-safe here is Tyranitar. So an additional factor that he has all the mascots would be that it creates a basic, yet not too easy, balanced team.

 

[Game Over1375]

Spoiler:

I can see your argument for pikachu, at best. But even with this picture, one was given a choice to get bulbasaur, squirtle, OR charmander. With your logic on this picture, then perhaps Bulbasaur should've been the ONLY choice provided? I think not. Red (game) was more of an opponent to resemble MC from Gen I. But since they had given the option to get any of the 3 at the start of Gen I, the creators of the game couldn't possibly find a way for the game to read your mind on an option you chose during a different game so they went for broke and threw in all three. Although it may seem like it's just a step closer to Ash, keep in mind Venasaur, Blastoise, and Charizard are still the 3 original mascots of Gen I, and symbolize THAT more than Ash's team (it'd also be good to note Ash never evolved Squirtle or Charmander with explanations why each of them wouldn't evolve. Thus to base Red's team, who has them all in their evolved forms, on those three would be silly).

And although you dislike the anime and Pokemon Yellow's obvious base from it, Pokemon Yellow is STILL an official pokemon game, whether you like it or not. And from the anime and such you should also know that Pikachu is the most common mascot of pokemon (in general, not just the games) of all (let's face it, there are more pikachu dolls than venasaur dolls). And still in Gen I. So what better way to sum up Generation 1 with only 6 pokemon? The 4 main mascots. And Snorlax, having been a memorable in-game event pokemon was a pretty good choice too. In the orignal Gen II I always saw Espeon as a "oh, so he went to Johto too" pokemon. Lapras in HG/SS for the Hail & Blizzard deal to give the AI something to work with. I'm fine with either really.

As far as pikachu being overly weak...let's look at Red's pikachu shall we?

Level 88, Item: Light Ball
Iron Tail
Thunderbolt
Volt Tackle
Quick Attack

To take this out with anything <60 (keep in mind, unless you've been specifically grinding for this guy, my pokemon weren't even level 50 yet). With it's high speed, that thing can basically SWEEP unless you have something like Steelix (which should be properly EV trained and minimum level of 50 to 2HKO Pikachu with EQ). Did I mention the AI is no longer that stupid? It caught me off-guard when he changed to Charizard to avoid EQ. If you think about it, it then sets you up to have something with EQ which will most likely be rock or ground, rock which gets creamed by Iron Tail, or electricity can hit it, ground...3 of his pokemon have blizzard/hail. The only real fail-safe here is Tyranitar. So an additional factor that he has all the mascots would be that it creates a basic, yet not too easy, balanced team.

Thank God someone has posted this up! I relized my mistake of basing Red in HG/SS as Red from the manga. My friend got CREAMED by Red's Pikachu alone, and his Pokemon were on level 70! Now THAT is bad. Plus, with the addition of Volt Tackle and the freakin' Light Ball, it is gonna be hard to stop that with anything other than a ground type.

 

[pokmon335]

hay i think that i bet the game and the e4 is esy ok

 

[kashin28]

agree!! he was way better before !! rite now all i need is thunder punch and thats it !! they made it easier now

 

["Shadow Lugia"]

agree!! he was way better before !! rite now all i need is thunder punch and thats it !! they made it easier now

You do realize that Pikachu and Venusaur resist that, right?

 

[Tox]

NO. That would be one of the worst ideas EVER. I hate the anime, and I think Red's team should be completely different from Ash's.

Take a chill pill. I could write a massive reply to that garbage you wrote, but you'll just go even more ape. That's the reason that you're not happy. You don't like the anime. It's not up to you though, is it? Like it or not, Yellow is based on the anime. The creators put Red in G/S/C with a team from Yellow - the newest version before them - in the game. There was remake of Yellow, thus HeartGold/SoulSilver base his team on the same game. The games aren't made to suit you. And just to clear things up, Pokémon Yellow is based on the anime. That's why you receive those certain Pokémon. Red isn't Ash, but the player from Yellow is based on him. (Ash is based on the player in Red and Blue before you attack me) Notice the word 'based'. They're not the exact same. Also G/S/C/HG/SS Red has little to do with Ash. He is the player from Yellow. I've already explained how he got his Pokémon. There's no more to it. Just face facts. I'll stop now before I confuse you anymore.

 

[giradialkia]

Take a chill pill. I could write a massive reply to that garbage you wrote, but you'll just go even more ape. That's the reason that you're not happy. You don't like the anime. It's not up to you though, is it? Like it or not, Yellow is based on the anime. The creators put Red in G/S/C with a team from Yellow - the newest version before them - in the game. There was remake of Yellow, thus HeartGold/SoulSilver base his team on the same game. The games aren't made to suit you. And just to clear things up, Pokémon Yellow is based on the anime. That's why you receive those certain Pokémon. Red isn't Ash, but the player from Yellow is based on him. (Ash is based on the player in Red and Blue before you attack me) Notice the word 'based'. They're not the exact same. Also G/S/C/HG/SS Red has little to do with Ash. He is the player from Yellow. I've already explained how he got his Pokémon. There's no more to it. Just face facts. I'll stop now before I confuse you anymore.

yes, this guy knows what he's saying. Mainly because I said quite similar stuff a bit back, but it was completely ignored. (C'mon... I thought it was pretty logical:D)

anyways, try to block all thoughts of Manga and Anime here, focus solely on the games (which are made before either of the others).
First come Red and Blue, the two games that made the world go crazy. You played as Red, and had a choice of three starters.
Next comes Yellow. You had to use a Pikachu, but got the other three starters eventually. Yellow completed the trio. Then comes Gold and Silver. Blah blah blah, you get to Mount Silver, and battle a Pokemon Trainer Red. Oh, look, he's got a Pikachu, and the three Kanto starters. Wonder what that's referring to.
Whether or not you give a $hit about Yellow, there is no denying that GSC's Red was based on Yellow's Red. And, since HG/SS are remakes of GSC, which were sequels to RBY, naturally you'd expect Red's team to symbolize that of FRLG's Red. Because no, there was no Yellow Remake. However, the only change in Red's team was from Espeon to Lapras. Clearly, his team was, and still is, based off that which was possible in Yellow.
Now, unblocking thoughts of Manga and Anime. The Manga is based on the games. Full stop. Yellow was loosely based around the Anime. Very loosely- aside from a few events and team-changes, it's the same story as Red and Blue, just like the other third-sister games that followed. I don't think it's accurate to assume that, just because it was loosely based on the Anime, it is not Canon.
Yes, I see your art there, which depicts each player with a different starter. Really, it means nothing. It doesn't necessarily mean that Red was to pick Bulbasaur, it simply suggests that the player can pick Bulbasaur if they want. And, the Manga could have done whatever they wanted, but they went.. well, the way they went. I think the only safe connection between game and Manga is the names of cities, and some characters. Other than that it shouldn't really be considered in most cases. Same with the Anime. You're getting caught up with the fact that Yellow had similar events- I don't remember taking Misty's bike, or the Pokemon Center exploding. Remember, Yellow was loosely based on the anime, and only loosely, as I've explained.
To finish on topic, HGSS Red's team is based on his possible Yellow team. Come on, man, it's the most likely, most logical answer.