The Staff Feedback Thread

[Ray Maverick]

I like this saying, we're all humans, and we make mistakes. Good to see the mods realize that. But I would like to note that it also applies to common members. Years ago, I was handed an infraction for disrespecting another member, and it is true, I did disrespect them in a rash, not so well thought out reply (and I was what you call a noob back then, with a weaker understanding thanks to my underdeveloped english). But as you say, it was a bad day for me just like it was a bad day for the moderator a or b that didn't handle the matter professionally. I lashed out and it was wrong of me. But I did it once, not continuously, and certainly not intentionally. Do I still deserve an infraction, awarded for only a bad moment, that will stay with me forever, for as long as I'm in this forum? I don't think so. The staff should think about that. Since you are now able to claim "sick" days, so to speak, and protect your reputation with this rational function, the common member should be able to as well.

I never formally complained because I was rather sick of the injustice that was constantly being done in the RH section at the time. I felt like even if I said something, nobody would do much, and that was true to an extent then, though hopefully not anymore. Quite like the behavior of a bullied kid, I now reflect. That speaks for itself.

 

[Nolafus]

I like this saying, we're all humans, and we make mistakes. Good to see the mods realize that. But I would like to note that it also applies to common members. Years ago, I was handed an infraction for disrespecting another member, and it is true, I did disrespect them in a rash, not so well thought out reply (and I was what you call a noob back then, with a weaker understanding thanks to my underdeveloped english). But as you say, it was a bad day for me just like it was a bad day for the moderator a or b that didn't handle the matter professionally. I lashed out and it was wrong of me. But I did it once, not continuously, and certainly not intentionally. Do I still deserve an infraction, awarded for only a bad moment, that will stay with me forever, for as long as I'm in this forum? I don't think so. The staff should think about that. Since you are now able to claim "sick" days, so to speak, and protect your reputation with this rational function, the common member should be able to as well.

I never formally complained because I was rather sick of the injustice that was constantly being done in the RH section at the time. I felt like even if I said something, nobody would do much, and that was true to an extent then, though hopefully not anymore. Quite like the behavior of a bullied kid, I now reflect. That speaks for itself.

Well, whatever infraction points you did get, they're expired now, so they don't count towards your active total. The only way the points would do anything now is if you went on a massive rule-breaking spree and racked up as many points as possible, haha.

If you're worried about having the infraction itself on your 'record' or whatever, it honestly doesn't mean much, if anything at all at this point. It does say that once upon a time something did happen, but the points are gone, no one can see it, and it's too long ago to even be of any relevance to anything you do today. All in all, I would say just don't worry about it, as there's not much that can be done about it now. The past is the past, and the only thing we can do is move forward, right?

 

[Ray Maverick]

Well, whatever infraction points you did get, they're expired now, so they don't count towards your active total. The only way the points would do anything now is if you went on a massive rule-breaking spree and racked up as many points as possible, haha.

If you're worried about having the infraction itself on your 'record' or whatever, it honestly doesn't mean much, if anything at all at this point. It does say that once upon a time something did happen, but the points are gone, no one can see it, and it's too long ago to even be of any relevance to anything you do today. All in all, I would say just don't worry about it, as there's not much that can be done about it now. The past is the past, and the only thing we can do is move forward, right?

That was not my point; I've gotten over it. But an infraction, expired even, is a lasting thing, one way or another, and I don't think it should be inflicted in that manner, and for that reason. That was my point. For a bad day, a chastisement would do. Not a punishment of this sort. You do not give infractions to your fellow staff members for having a bad day, do you?

 

[El Héroe Oscuro]

I can understand that. I personally have two infractions on my profile which are annoying to look at and they date all the way back to '07. Granted they were about trading hacked Pokemon and not something like disrespecting members, but I can see how a person looking at a user's history of infractions might characterize that person based on what they saw. Maybe there can be a middle ground that could be met in which a history of infractions can be viewable by the user - who can toggle it on or off if they do choose to do so - and staff. Do past infractions all the way from years past need to be viewable by the public? I personally don't think so.

 

[Klippy]

That was not my point; I've gotten over it. But an infraction, expired even, is a lasting thing, one way or another, and I don't think it should be inflicted in that manner, and for that reason. That was my point.

I have two infractions on my profile and they will stay with me as long as I am a member here. The staff member at the time gave you the infraction and it stands on record as such, bad day or not. I'm not really sure where you got the "sick day" thing because that doesn't seem to be a policy on this forum. :/

I have made plenty of mistakes on PC and despite that I have matured and grown and people recognize that. If you do the same, a small red mark that only you and staff can see will not change that.

 

[Her]

I'm biased because I have numerous infractions from my more... crude days, but a middle ground does sound good. I guess this isn't the thread to post about it, but as it's being brought up, whatever. If someone hasn't committed a certain type of infraction within a three year period, it doesn't seem right to keep it as a permanent marker if they've clearly matured past that point.

 

[Tsutarja]

Infractions are only visible to yourself and the staff members, and nobody else. There are several members here on staff (myself included) that have them on our profiles, but we don't think of them as a way to ruin our PC experience at all. Simply put, if you follow the rules now and learn from your mistakes, you shouldn't ever get them again, and you'll essentially be clean if you just try not to think about them! :3

 

[Hikamaru]

I'm someone who landed a few infractions myself in my early years (I recall one was being disrespect to members, and one for "being a copycat"), some of which I ended up getting for actions that even I wouldn't have viewed as offensive, but I know that at the time they were being slapped by a particularly harsh smod who had since retired.

But anyways, as Zach brought it up not everyone is perfect, and we even have staff members who got slapped with infractions in the past, and I once used to think getting one would ruin one's chances of getting onto staff but that was totally debunked. I did once think they would ruin my experience, given I was driven out of another forum by mod power abuse.

Those infractions I had from like almost three years ago have since expired, and I never broke a forum rule again since. I learned from said mistake and that helped me improve myself, just like what Klippy said earlier.

 

[Ray Maverick]

It's alarming how many people completely misunderstood what I said. I will attempt for the last time to explain myself more thoroughly. Everyone seems to think it's how I handle the infraction, and how I use it to make myself a better person - I've already done that, and the past is the past and it stays where it is, like you've all said. But that's irrelevant to what I was saying.

I'm not really sure where you got the "sick day" thing because that doesn't seem to be a policy on this forum. :/

It was an euphemism, and I never stated it was an actual policy; it was rather more like the abstract concept of "we're humans, we make mistakes every once in a while" that Abnegation suggested. The point I was trying to make is how that applies to the common member as well, and not only the mod. The staff here says we're all humans, and we make mistakes, so therefore you will excuse us if we slip up one or two times, it should be made acceptable once in a long while. But that also applies to the member who is inflicted with an infraction with no warning, for a misplaced comment that was made in a post once, as a result of a bad mood, and not as a result of malicious intent. Even the fact that it is permanent and it shows up on anyone's profile is irrelevant, now that I think about it. I want to conclude my argument by saying infractions should not be handed to an offense made because of an unfortunate time - they should be handed out to people who are/have become a nuisance to the community and have actively caused grief and sought to poison the good nature of the forum. If you're about to hand out an infraction, consider what has been said and done by the offender; if it seems like they should not be blamed for their actions at that moment in time, resorting to a warning would work just fine. That is all.

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

 

[Klippy]

We do excuse members for making slip-ups, but it's generally accepted that if you've been a member for awhile, you know the rules - bad day or not. You were a member for plenty of time beforehand to know what you said was disrespectful - bad day or not.

Furthermore how are we supposed to discern when a member is having a bad day or not? We have no capability in knowing your feelings on any given day and our moderation team acts based only on the assumption you are aware of the rules and that breaking them can result in an infraction. Furthermore if you had issue with the infraction and wished for a reversal or removal of said infraction, it would have been prudent to let us know five years ago and not now. It's expired and has no bearing at this time.

Per the rules as well: If you disagree with an infraction or ban you've received, you must bring it up with either the moderator that awarded the infraction, or a higher staff member. This is to be done via private messaging with those parties—threads or posts discussing infractions or bans will be removed.

Please feel free to contact myself or another higher staff member and we can review the situation.

 

[Ray Maverick]

Let me start by saying I do not wish anything to be done with my infraction. In fact, I want it to stay the way it is. I'll wear it proudly, and it might sometimes when I look upon it remind me of that time when I slipped up, and I'll make sure it doesn't happen again for fear of another infraction.

Furthermore how are we supposed to discern when a member is having a bad day or not?

In the same way you discern how moderators feel when they slip up, of course. But I get your point, it is impossible to review situations for every single infraction, for moderators are more trustworthy when it comes to obeying the rules than the common member and therefore they are more worthy of having their situations reviewed... right? The dreamy optimist in me wishes that were true. I won't say any more on the subject, as it shouldn't be a personal business of mine how things are being handled in this forum. You are the mods, you run things how you see fit. I apologize if I seem bitter, but what Abnegation said struck me as very true.

 

[Kanzler]

I don't know if I've ever made my opinion public, but I've always felt that removing infractions, or making them "invisible", is a worthy accommodation that can be made for members. I don't have knowledge of the programming behind it, so I obviously cannot talk about the feasibility of such a thing. But members do (I included) see infractions expired, yet lingering, as a kind of black stain which stays with your account even though you, as a member, might have moved on.

Think of it as a pardon or amnesty eh? Apart from feasibility issues, I don't think it's too much to ask for. And for the trolls and those who purposefully act maliciously repeatedly towards the member base, simply don't grant them that amnesty.

The argument against such an amnesty (as I have personally heard) have always been something along the lines of: what's the point, if it doesn't mean anything any more? As long as you move on/ignore, then everything's okay. But I think it's an unnecessary level of conservatism. No, it doesn't mean anything to anyone else, but it might be meaningful to members who are sensitive to those kinds of things. And if you can accommodate their wishes without negatively impacting anything else, then why not? Might not be high on the priority list, but it wouldn't be something I'm opposed to out of principle.

tl;dr - not a "why" issue, but a "why not" issue.

 

[moon]

That was not my point; I've gotten over it. But an infraction, expired even, is a lasting thing, one way or another, and I don't think it should be inflicted in that manner, and for that reason. That was my point. For a bad day, a chastisement would do. Not a punishment of this sort. You do not give infractions to your fellow staff members for having a bad day, do you?

I'd say you are sort of right. Nowadays it should be policy to poke someone with a PM or at least a yellowcard before slamming an infraction on them. For simple rule breaks, I find this works well, because often, it's just a matter of misunderstandings anyways (you know, people who don't read the rp rules and septuple-post or make one liners...) and not malicious evil.

It's sort of different with infractions for disrespect though. It will always be taken seriously here, and it is difficult to know who's having a bad day and who's cray. And the bottom line is - whether you meant it or not, had a bad day or not, you were being disrespectful and as you say you respect the reprimand you got. We nip the fights in the bud like that. I think it seems pretty logical.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

I know it's a bit late, but I've seriously seen this same old song and dance too many times to not try to put it to rest (o futile me).

It was an euphemism, and I never stated it was an actual policy; it was rather more like the abstract concept of "we're humans, we make mistakes every once in a while" that Abnegation suggested. The point I was trying to make is how that applies to the common member as well, and not only the mod. The staff here says we're all humans, and we make mistakes, so therefore you will excuse us if we slip up one or two times, it should be made acceptable once in a long while. But that also applies to the member who is inflicted with an infraction with no warning, for a misplaced comment that was made in a post once, as a result of a bad mood, and not as a result of malicious intent. Even the fact that it is permanent and it shows up on anyone's profile is irrelevant, now that I think about it. I want to conclude my argument by saying infractions should not be handed to an offense made because of an unfortunate time - they should be handed out to people who are/have become a nuisance to the community and have actively caused grief and sought to poison the good nature of the forum. If you're about to hand out an infraction, consider what has been said and done by the offender; if it seems like they should not be blamed for their actions at that moment in time, resorting to a warning would work just fine. That is all.

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

If I'm understanding him, he's asking for a rain check on his conduct.

We do excuse members for making slip-ups, but it's generally accepted that if you've been a member for awhile, you know the rules - bad day or not.

We don't have the staff on a platter when they mess up, and they're not only old, but staff. They're held to an even higher standard, right?

You were a member for plenty of time beforehand to know what you said was disrespectful - bad day or not.

Staff are the ones enforcing the rules and end up having fopahs, and we forgive them for it. It's not unreasonable to give the same to members.

Furthermore how are we supposed to discern when a member is having a bad day or not? We have no capability in knowing your feelings on any given day and our moderation team acts based only on the assumption you are aware of the rules and that breaking them can result in an infraction.

It's getting a bit repetitive hearing "the law's the law, here's your ticket, pay this fine..." Gah. Can you be more personable? As far as discerning a member's mood, you do what you do anyway - read their profile, their blog, look at their posts, look at their signature/avatar choices - study their interaction like you do for promotions (lol). I thought that's what you guys had going for the remainder of your time when you're not moderating, you were "knowing" the community. What happened to that.

Per the rules as well: If you disagree with an infraction or ban you've received, you must bring it up with either the moderator that awarded the infraction, or a higher staff member. This is to be done via private messaging with those parties—threads or posts discussing infractions or bans will be removed.

Please feel free to contact myself or another higher staff member and we can review the situation.

The staff generally back each other up when brought to question privately, so unless there's something really special going on it's kind of a waste of time.

I thought I'd comment on this as some of the things being said were a bit ridiculous, I'll be honest. Those are my thoughts.

 

[Klippy]

Staff are the ones enforcing the rules and end up having fopahs, and we forgive them for it. It's not unreasonable to give the same to members.

It's getting a bit repetitive hearing "the law's the law, here's your ticket, pay this fine..." Gah. Can you be more personable? As far as discerning a member's mood, you do what you do anyway - read their profile, their blog, look at their posts, look at their signature/avatar choices - study their interaction like you do for promotions (lol). I thought that's what you guys had going for the remainder of your time when you're not moderating, you were "knowing" the community. What happened to that.

It's spelled faux pas, just as an aside.

Staff members are held to the same standards as members, if not a higher standard. When we make mistakes, we handle them accordingly, once again, bad day or not.

We are not required to discern or interpret a member's mood when they post, as it is assumed whether they are grumpy or moody or happy or sad or sleepy or dopey or sneezy that they are aware of the forum rules from the day they register as a member. So even though I might be slightly tired today, if I were to insult a member, it breaks the rules despite my tiredness. As to your assumption of what we do with our time, a good deal of our staff takes time to foster a communal atmosphere, but we are still not omnipotent and cannot be aware of how each member feels each day. We do our best and provide the most responsive answers to situations and render punishment or not at the staff member's discretion.

Once again, I reiterate that if you feel a judgment passed on you is unfair or harsh, feel free to contact a higher staff member in a timely manner to have it discussed. As to your last point, the staff hold no favoritism over each other when it comes to fairness and equality on the forums. Once again, we are held to the same standards and higher when it comes to the posts we make and the interactions we have. Just because YOU don't see the result of a staff member's posts or actions does NOT mean that nothing has happened.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Just because YOU don't see the result of a staff member's posts or actions does NOT mean that nothing has happened.

While that is a good policy to uphold - everyone does not need to know everyone's business - in this instance referring to questioning the result beyond the moderator and such - would it be feasible to provide some sort of assurance towards who's wronged? Or do you already do that?

 

[abnegation]

Inyotef stop trying to create a coodeeta.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Inyotef stop trying to create a coodeeta.

I don't even know what that is o_O


Do you mean codetta? That definition is to do with music, I don't understand what you're saying.

 

[Aquacorde]

maybe public discussions about other peoples biz are helpful sometimes but probably not after the person feeling victimized has been given an answer they deem satisfactory

and i mean if a member does not feel satisfied by the answer they have been given, they can again bring it up publicly or with more staff members? i know a lot of members end up feeling shut down by staff when they do have an issue, but that's really up to them to continue pressing their point, is it not? unless they have specifically asked another member to back them up after getting a few answers from staff i'm not sure it's a helpful thing to bring up the issue again.

 

[I'm so HM02]

I reported a post on The Treehouse because they were calling me "Gay" and none of the Mods there did anything. I think what happen was that they like it cuz Shining Raichu likes it and that is enough to keep it there. I tried the nice approach, but nobody care and it seems like unless you have a friend that is a Mod, Super Admin or Admin you won't be helped... I just wanted the post removed because I don't want a bad rap.