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Ubuntu users, unite!

Do you use ubuntu?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 63.6%
  • No

    Votes: 16 36.4%

  • Total voters
    44

twocows

The not-so-black cat of ill omen
4,307
Posts
15
Years
  • Hey twocows, were you bullied by processes and daemons when you were young? Or do you just still use a 386? Because there is quite literally no reason *at all* for anyone to be as paranoid and obsessed about making sure the OS isn't doing ANYTHING AT ALL. Processes/Daemons = background functionality. It's 2009; that's what our OS's do nowadays; they give us FEATURES. Deal with it, sister.
    I'm a performance nut without a lot of cash. My best computer is a mid-range laptop, and the rest are all various types of old, so the less background stuff there is running, the faster my stuff tends to work. I find it's worth it to just start whatever I need up manually; in Windows, for instance, I have a batch file that starts all the printer-related services if I need to print. It's especially important in Windows because I do my gaming there; I like to have a high (and consistent) framerate, especially if I'm playing a multiplayer game. With all the services that I've disabled and the various tweaks I've made, I find I can play most modern games at a pretty consistent 60 frames per second on the laptop, provided I turn the graphics down a bit.

    There is something totally wrong with you.
    Why, thank you! I just love personal insults as a response to normal discussion! For maximum effect, read all my text in the voice of Oscar the Grouch.
    I never said that Ubuntu was better than the rest, in fact, I was just being more specific about my flavour of Linux.
    I never said you did. I was just pointing out that you could do a lot of the stuff you mentioned on other operating systems.
    Everybody who uses Linux knows that you can turn any flavour of linux to have features of another.
    More or less, yes. But there are plenty of people right here in this forum that don't use Linux and don't know that, and may have gotten the false assumption that you could only do those things on Ubuntu. I was just explaining this.
    And mind you, my cluster uses Red Hat anyway.
    You should try MOSIX.
    I was just presenting my arguement against those who say that Windows is the best, and that there is nothing else that anyone will wever want to use, or for that matter even Mac.
    You didn't explain that at all. Also, like I said, a lot of what you mentioned can be done on Windows or OS X.
    There were people here who just keep ranting about windows or mac being better, I am just trying to say that windows is nowhere near the competition. Mac and Linux are far ahead of Windows.
    Windows is really the only choice if you're going to be gaming. You can try to WINE games on Linux, but you'll likely lose a good deal of performance if you can even get the game working; WINE is more useful, for instance, if you have some useful little program someone wrote and didn't port to Linux. And while more games these days are getting Mac versions, there are still plenty of good ones that simply can't be played on OS X (again, you could try WINE, but it really isn't meant for gaming).
    My post was just to show what all windows can do, and in listing what I have been able to achieve on my linux installations easily, I mentioned how well it can be done on windows, and there is nothing in the list that says that windows can't do the same.
    I didn't understand the first part of that. However, as far as I read into your original message, the implication was that Windows couldn't do those things. All you said about Windows was that it was built to be pretty, which is simply untrue.
    And for that matter, I am not here to discuss how Ubuntu is better than Gentoo or Arch or anything, I believe that the distros are something that everybody has a different opinion on and according to the person's need he might have to use a different distro than the one I might wanna use.
    I never said any one was all-around better; in fact, I implied that was untrue. Each distribution offers something different; Gentoo is a lot more focused on hardware optimizations at compile-time, for instance.
    There is nothing that you can do with one distro that you can't on another. And no don't give me stuff like aptitude can't remove RPMs.
    I know that. Not everyone does, though, so I explained it. Well... except... Yum can't remove Debian packages.

    No matter what you say, having a tonne distros is still a bad thing.
    I will not agree with you on this point. Let's start a little hypothetical here. Assume there are only two distributions in existence, and that the Linux kernel was encumbered in such a way that only these two could exist (and that nobody's going to develop a new kernel at this point that doesn't have such insane restrictions). And let us also assume that code can't be forked from these projects. They're the only two Linux distributions in the world that will ever exist. One is primarily designed for servers; any code contributed that doesn't make the distribution more useful for servers is discarded. The other is specifically designed to run on older computer; for instance, mid-1990s stuff. It's too crippled to be useful to anything except something from the mid 90s. There is no distribution for general use; people who want to use their OS for something other than these two things are considered a niche group and not worth spending time on. Also, the server project has a stupid admin; people have submit code for five years to fix a gaping exploit in the distribution, but the project admin doesn't think any of the code submitted fixes the exploit gracefully enough, and denies it all. Someone tried to offer a version of the distribution with a fix, along with a few other changes to make it more available to desktop users, but the people in charge sued for copyright infringement.

    These are the sorts of problems that arise when you take choice out of the equation. You're stuck with stuff that may not be useful to you, and nothing ever really gets developed.
    I mean, I know when I first made a switch, choosing from millions isn't really the thing that I wanted to do.
    If you know what you want in a distribution, you're not choosing from millions, you're choosing from maybe twenty at most. Spending a bit of time investigating those options ends up being a very useful investment.
    And no, not every good thing has to be chosen from millions. Choice is good, as long as you don't have to download the installation CDs, and format your hardware everytime you try one. Atleast where I live, downloading a CD takes an hour or 2, thanks to the uber slow ISPs in India.
    Investigate a bit and you can usually narrow your options down to maybe two or three. My ISP caps my bandwidth pretty low, but I didn't really have any problems.

    You sure wanna say that again, windows Vista was totally about the looks and nothing else, all other features were totally not what I expect an efficient Operating System to be like, I don't know anyone who has them turned on anyway.
    There were too many changes in Vista to count. All but one of them weren't Aero, which is the eye candy.

    And since you mention this, what is this tweaking you talk of, I have done much and I believe I have done everything that's possible on windows to make it faster, still it refuses to be as fast as a server built on Linux.
    I have 39 Vista services disabled (some of them related to programs I rarely use), most of which (surprisingly) don't seem to interfere with any of my day-to-day operations. The task scheduler has most of its tasks deleted, and I used Autoruns to get rid of a lot of the stuff that tries to start on logon. There are a few other tweaks, but most of them are for customization purposes, not performance ones. One thing I do is make batch files to start services I may need to start for some reason.

    I am not trying to be rude or anything, but I challenge you to make a diskless beowulf cluster on windows vista, that means no hard disks on the nodes. And along that, I want you to have NFS, RSH, SSH and along with that find me software that runs on it. Now prove me that this is faster than a Linux cluster of the same specifications and same hardware.
    And while you are taking this challenge, look up beowulf clusters on wikipedia, and look at that part where it says that beowulf's are made on FOSS software. Good luck finding a FOSS version of windows.
    I may have been speaking out my bum on this one, but to be honest, there's no reason why it's technically not possible to do something like that with Windows. I imagine you could probably recompile the necessary software with Cygwin and a few changes and get it working on Windows just fine.

    windows is the most horrible thing on earth and linux for that matter is much better in that sense.
    Both are useful in their own ways. That's why I multi-boot all my computers.
     
    940
    Posts
    16
    Years
    • Seen Apr 10, 2010
    I'm a performance nut without a lot of cash. My best computer is a mid-range laptop, and the rest are all various types of old, so the less background stuff there is running, the faster my stuff tends to work. I find it's worth it to just start whatever I need up manually; in Windows, for instance, I have a batch file that starts all the printer-related services if I need to print. It's especially important in Windows because I do my gaming there; I like to have a high (and consistent) framerate, especially if I'm playing a multiplayer game. With all the services that I've disabled and the various tweaks I've made, I find I can play most modern games at a pretty consistent 60 frames per second on the laptop, provided I turn the graphics down a bit.
    You do know the print services run idle and use *zero* resources when they're not being used, right? So..all you're doing is inconveniencing yourself when you DO need to print. That's the idea of a SERVICE. It provides a SERVICE to you when it's required and sits idle (doing nothing and costing nothing) when you don't.
     

    DrCoolSanta

    Erode away...
    406
    Posts
    19
    Years
  • I'm sorry if I sounded like that, I really wasn't trying to pass on a personal insult or anything.

    Now that I think of it, you do have a point somewhere.

    We were talking about having too many distros, choice is good I aggree, but sometimes it just doesn't work out well. There are two things a beginner could do, spen some time reading the documentations and details of every project mentioned on wikipedia as a linux distro. And there are somethings that really don't work together, take this as an example RPMs and DPKG, they don't work together and there are many situations when you need the other. And Debian flavours like Ubuntu are never really bundeled with build-essentials and you end up having to install them first before going on compiling stuff for your installation.

    Personally, I get pissed if I have to read through a wall of text just to make a choice. And we are talking about someone who doesn't even know what Linux precisely is.
    Sure you could say that the person should atleast have an idea as to what linux is all about, and for that he needs to try one distro and what should we really suggest him to try?
    Next think of this, on debian, when I was trying to make it NFS boot, it was just editing a file and run a command, but on Red Hat, its downloading the kernel, configuring it (and actually trying to understand compiling kernels) and then compiling configuring grub to boot them and what not.

    But just look at what I posted first again, I really did mention that all that was possible on windows, its just that its a lot harder on windows than on linux. There really is no point in saying that you can't do all that on windows, but there are drawbacks, and some are major.

    Vista had changes, and only about 2 or 3 are useful?

    I tried all that and still I'd say, with all that disabled my windows xp is still slower than my ubuntu on a dual boot. My ubuntu has nothing disabled and looks nice and everything, actually I installed more stuff, enabled things on it and everything to make it look nicer. And my windows, I have tuned it down to look like vermin and its still much slow.

    Technically, it is possible to do something like that on windows (if you forget that you have to pay for windows), but there really is not much use for that. I have still to see something that runs faster on windows than on linux, and I still have to see a piece of software that runs in parallel on windows beowulf cluster. And IRL people actually prefer linux over windows for various reasons when it comes to this. You can really tune up your linux configuration for better performance and faster calculations. Windows really is pathetic with network programming. You can really program in linux without your code looking like a piece of **** (if you know windows programming, you'd know that there are big pieces of code that you really don't wanna understand and you just copy paste that over time) and when it comes to networking, which is an important aspect of beowulf, is really pathetic in windows.

    And when I challenged you to do it, you can't make windows to be diskless (closest to that, I have only come accross BartPE) Now that adds to the cost doesn't it?

    I aggree about the part about windows being better for games, Linux isn't really that good when it comes to games, and it probably will never be. Think of OpenGL, Microsoft is not going to support it now so its only for Linux now. We can really forget about cross platform gaming since now we have two different rendering engines in both.

    And cloud, I really don't think windows is better at being fast, I would do anything to get rid of as many services as possible on windows. And there is nothing to argue about, that zero resource part is a bit more theoretical than it sounds and it really makes a difference when you turn then off.
    And that's precisely what I am saying, you need to do so much on windows to make it fast enough, but linux really is much faster even without having to turn of so many services.
     

    Cartmic

    Hi there, it's been awhile.
    618
    Posts
    20
    Years
  • Don't be daft. OpenOffice is available for Mac too, if you *really* want to use the retarded step child of Office Suites.

    Firstly I am not going to deny that MS Office is a good product, because I think It's an excellent product! But OpenOffice IS just as capable. Have you ever given it serious usage for a long period of time?

    Secondly what do you have against the Open Source model? You act like Mr. Free Software; Richard Stallman himself came and got you in your dreams.
     
    Last edited:
    940
    Posts
    16
    Years
    • Seen Apr 10, 2010
    Firstly I am not going to deny that MS Office is a good product, because I think It's an excellent product! But OpenOffice IS just as capable.
    No.
    Have you ever given it serious usage for a long period of time?
    Yes.
    Secondly what do you have against the Open Source model? You act like Mr. Free Software; Richard Stallman himself came and got you in your dreams.
    Open Sores software is a pretty bad business model. It's as if I were walking around during the day with a giant picture of what I look like naked, above my head; in-case anyone in the general public wants to know what I look like nude to either
    a) base their own artistic work on
    or
    b) offer other "alternatives" to how I should dress.
    Sorry, my fashion is a closed source business model.
    And so is my software.
    Also, stallman, interject, gnu, blah blah blah
     

    Cartmic

    Hi there, it's been awhile.
    618
    Posts
    20
    Years
  • No.

    Yes.

    Open Sores software is a pretty bad business model. It's as if I were walking around during the day with a giant picture of what I look like naked, above my head; in-case anyone in the general public wants to know what I look like nude to either
    a) base their own artistic work on
    or
    b) offer other "alternatives" to how I should dress.
    Sorry, my fashion is a closed source business model.
    And so is my software.
    Also, stallman, interject, gnu, blah blah blah

    That's quite fair enough opinion. I believe it to be what ever model suits your company best. MS have done well with its commercial closed source model, and Red Hat has done well with it's commercial open source model.

    May I ask which OOo version did you last use?

    What did you find lacking in OOo compared to MS Office?
     
    940
    Posts
    16
    Years
    • Seen Apr 10, 2010
    That's quite fair enough opinion. I believe it to be what ever model suits your company best. MS have done well with its commercial closed source model, and Red Hat has done well with it's commercial open source model.

    May I ask which OOo version did you last use?

    What did you find lacking in OOo compared to MS Office?
    I couldn't even tell you. I can tell you when I used it; which was when I needed an OSX Office Client and Office 2008 had not quite come out yet, so you can date based on that.
    My primary gripes were mostly with regards to poor handling of imported Microsoft Office Documents (and total lack of .docx support, -at the time-); in addition poor support for *exporting* to Office Formats; some of the mess's it made of my CV is inexcusable.
    Microsoft Office is ubiquitous and lacking complete and proper support for the industry standard is just..poor.
     

    DrCoolSanta

    Erode away...
    406
    Posts
    19
    Years
  • Actually, even though OpenOffice treis to be like MS Office, its still really different. Hence a person trying to work on it expecting it to be a port of Ms Office to Linux is not going to be pretty. But for someone who only has used OpenOffice since the beginning and really does not expect every piece of software to immitate MS, then that's good.

    And personally, I use AbiWord and GNumeric to do the job, but someone else might prefer Google Docs (which I know is not open source but is free atleast)

    But really, open source software allows for certain improvements, I aggree that open source isn't really very pretty and in some cases as easy to use, but it certainly has more functionality. Besides money has some value, which is a lot more important to some people than more professional software.
     
    Last edited:

    twocows

    The not-so-black cat of ill omen
    4,307
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • I'm sorry if I sounded like that, I really wasn't trying to pass on a personal insult or anything.
    No problem.

    Personally, I get pissed if I have to read through a wall of text just to make a choice. And we are talking about someone who doesn't even know what Linux precisely is.
    Walls of text often help you learn what Linux is.

    Next think of this, on debian, when I was trying to make it NFS boot, it was just editing a file and run a command, but on Red Hat, its downloading the kernel, configuring it (and actually trying to understand compiling kernels) and then compiling configuring grub to boot them and what not.
    That might be implemented by now; Fedora especially has gained a lot of ground in the past few years. Too bad the documentation is still outdated more often than not.

    Vista had changes, and only about 2 or 3 are useful?
    Vista had a lot of back-end changes. The problem with making back-end changes that aren't performance related is that the end user doesn't usually notice them.

    I tried all that and still I'd say, with all that disabled my windows xp is still slower than my ubuntu on a dual boot.
    Try running nLite on your XP disc and disabling/removing anything you don't plan to use. Slipstream SP3 while you're at it. I have my 2000-ish IBM Aptiva running XP pretty well (slows down a bit with Firefox); plus, no IE <3 (had to replace a few system files with some ReactOS components to keep certain functionality, though).

    Windows really is pathetic with network programming.
    Yup.

    Think of OpenGL, Microsoft is not going to support it now so its only for Linux now.
    As far as I know, Windows still supports OpenGL. Microsoft just pushes DirectX more, but you can use either rendering mode in Windows. It's beyond me why gaming companies don't just use OpenGL, to be honest. There's probably some reason I haven't thought of.

    Firstly I am not going to deny that MS Office is a good product, because I think It's an excellent product! But OpenOffice is just as capable. Have you ever given it serious usage for a long period of time?
    If you go searching for extensions and plugins, you can make it roughly equivalent, but it's a stretch to say that it's as good out of the box. Though there are a few nice surprises in there that MS Office doesn't have.

    Mr. Free Software; Richard Stallman
    I'd like to point out that not everyone agrees with RMS' version of free software. I think the fundamental ideas he puts forward are fine, but I believe he's not practical enough about it.
     

    DrCoolSanta

    Erode away...
    406
    Posts
    19
    Years
  • Fedora is community running so it is nice, but the example I just gave you, thats something I doubt will ever change about Fedora or any Red Hat based distribution, thats something I believe is very debian centric. Debian is actually way different from Red Hat and I seem to like it better now, its not really something advanced but it gets the work done without it being complicated.

    Thank you for pointing out nLite, since I practically have removed all that stuff manually till now. And its pathetic how windows just doesn't want to mend its ways and be as fast as Linux would be. And its really disturbing to see how actually all that makes a real difference in the speed of windows. However, my laptop takes one hour to even open the start menu, I am going to dump that installation even if I paid extra for the WinXP, though I guess, I usually only run ubuntu on it anyway.
    The best part is that my laptop (its really small, I have my PC to do the big jobs xD) doesn't have a CD rom, and I actually installed Ubuntu just directly off the internet, it just downloaded and installed at the same time. Thats what I love about Linux, just about everything is possible.

    Windows supports OpenGL, just that the new versions of OpenGL will never be supported, or so was true till I dumped OpenGL for Direct3D, appearantly for the same reason.

    Lets really not talk about free software: The govt. brainwashes you and after that you are not ready for the free internet world anymore.
    Unless that TCPA project was really going to work, then people like cloud would come here to say that they aggreed with us about the FOSS, since she won't have thepiratebay offer her all the paid software she has.
    And in case it isn't thepiratebay or any other p2p method she usees to get that software, I really pitty her.

    Or if she were talking about closed source yet free software being better, she is just plain pathetic.
     
    3,956
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  • And personally, I use AbiWord and GNumeric to do the job, but someone else might prefer Google Docs (which I know is not open source but is free atleast).
    I've tried Abiword in the past, and I've found it rather clunky and ugly. Each to his own, though.

    Actually, you probably already know this, but OpenOffice is undergoing Project Renaissance. It's a community effort to re-design the interface, as Office 2007 really highlighted how dated the interface of OO3 was. I personally can't wait for the release which should be later this year.
     

    DrCoolSanta

    Erode away...
    406
    Posts
    19
    Years
  • I just want to point out, that I actually found MS Office really bad and ugly when it first came out. I wanted an option for it to look like the old ones, the options were really badly hidden.

    I aggree that each has his own opinion, but I just want to point out, that in fact like how cloud says against OpenOffice not being just as capable, it is wrong. Open software is just as good if you actually try to use it and not find flaws the very moment you start using it, that too you forget that the payed versions also have their own flaws.
    Don't expect OpenOffice to be MS Office, it is not, try actually spending as much time as you used to learn OpenOffice. Open software is meant for those, who know the value of money or want more functionality.

    Let me give you an example that I know scientists who moved from software for which they paid as much as $5000 and even more to free and open software. Why? because, very few people could actually afford it and there weren't many people to help them out, they only had the documentation which often didn't answer their questions.
    MS Office is not as expensive as that but still the only reason there are as many people using it is basically because they have a pirated copy.

    I know India for sure, if anything ever happens to your computer and it needs to be formatted, the vendor just puts in a pirated copy of windows, no matter you bought the original or not!
     

    twocows

    The not-so-black cat of ill omen
    4,307
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • stuff about MS Office piracy
    Hence why Microsoft designs WGA the way it does. If they really wanted to limit piracy, they'd make a phone home requirement or something. WGA isn't there to prevent piracy, it's there to prevent casual users from sharing their software. These are the people that won't know about alternatives, and if they can't just share the software, they'll probably just end up going out and buying it. On the other hand, Microsoft knows that pirates are the kind of people that will probably know about free alternatives; if they can't pirate the software, there's a good chance they'll switch to a free alternative. A pirated copy of the software still holds a general reliance on Microsoft software and may equate to some sort of purchase in the future, but a switch to a free alternative is essentially a lost sale (and may lead to less reliance on Microsoft software in general). Thus, they designed WGA in such a way as to restrict people from sharing software among their friends, but not to prevent piracy in general. I've got to give them some credit, it's brilliant.
     

    DrCoolSanta

    Erode away...
    406
    Posts
    19
    Years
  • Microsoft has in past sued trackers and pirated software websites. I don't think they have succeeded but they have.
    Also Microsoft was interested in the TCPA thingy, which I hope is never going to come.
     
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  • That's an interesting perspective, twocows. Letting pirates go is sort of a marketing technique. It still makes them the most-used OS.

    I'm interested in trying KDE. Is it worth adding the kubuntu-desktop package, so I can integrate it? I've heard people complain about KDE...
     
    940
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    • Seen Apr 10, 2010
    That's an interesting perspective, twocows. Letting pirates go is sort of a marketing technique. It still makes them the most-used OS.

    I'm interested in trying KDE. Is it worth adding the kubuntu-desktop package, so I can integrate it? I've heard people complain about KDE...
    There's a Balmer quote along the lines of "We'd rather users steal our product, than use the other guys"
     
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    • Seen Jan 2, 2010
    The only app that I would like to run that doesn't run in WINE is XSE. XD Other than that, I haven't booted into Windows since I first installed Ubuntu, and every few months, I find myself shrinking my windows partition. Go Linux!
     
    3,956
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  • Well sadly, I'm stuck using Windows for Visual Studio 2008, which I need for my software classes.

    Anyone know of a linux equivalent? At least for VB and/or C#.

    If I can sort that out, it means a lot more mugs of Ubuntu for me.
     
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