US Elections 2008: Debate the Issues

[ChronicEdge]

She wasn't a horrible move for the Republicans. She was a horrible move for America. If McCain croaks, this lady is going to be president of the United States. And she is absolutely NOT a good VP choice. She has demonstrated an incredible amount of ignorance regarding how our country works. She had no idea what the Bush Doctrine was, she has condemned abortion under any circumstance unless the woman happens to be her own daughter, she has admitted multiple times to not even knowing what a vice president does. Her executive experience includes being the governor of a state with no people in it. She is applauded for all this and yet a state senator/community organizer/harvard law graduate is considered 'inexperienced' or 'untested'. Give me a break.

Also, I wouldn't consider McCain a 'maverick' after he's reversed practically every one of his somewhat-less-than-conservative political positions to the point of becoming a hollow puppet-man for the Republican party.

Very well spoken. Bravo, sirrah.

 

[the bitter end.]

Obama is probably going to win. I honestly want Obama to win because he is highly intelligent, young and the best of the two candidates. I say that with the upmost respect. One of the issues that is important to me is getting the troops out of Iraq. The war is needless. McCain supports the war and Obama does not and that is one thing that makes me very happy. On the Death penalty Obama does not support it but he does not want it abolished even though "it does little to deter crimes". Mccain supprts the death penalty. On Guantanemo bay both cadidates do not like it and want it gone. And the last thing I really care about at the moment (all I can really think of) is civil libertys and rights.

Just look here and I believe you will see why I favor Barack Obama.

https://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-civil-liberties.php

These are just my opinions so please do not flame me. You can surely disagree but please do not say "idiot! obama is a terroorrizt! obama = osama!"

I agree that we need to get them out, but an instant withdraw of all the troops simultaneously would cost lots of money, and would trigger attacks on the united states, I think they should be withdrawn slowly.

 

[Netto Azure]

Ehh...

I agree that we need to get them out, but an instant withdraw of all the troops simultaneously would cost lots of money, and would trigger attacks on the united states, I think they should be withdrawn slowly.

They are being withrawn slowly from Iraq...AND THEN MOVED TO AFGANISTAN!!! Lulz =P...But if you payed attention Obama has been saying he is more willing to listen to the Chief of Staff. So they will be probably withrawn slowly in either administration.
That is also my opinion on Sudden withrawal...and you do have to remember All candidates (considering third parties) Are/will be politicians so they will flip-flop on the issues once they hold on to power. (I'm so pessimistic D=)

 

[Volkner's Apprentice]

They are being withrawn slowly from Iraq...AND THEN MOVED TO AFGANISTAN!!! Lulz =P...

That's not very funny..

And have people heard of living until ninety years old these days? Or heck, even eighty-three? It's happening more and more now that we've got these crazy new things called..well, hospitals. McCain might be old, but he isn't going to die the VERY SECOND he gets into office. This idea is the only thing that really bugs me when people say that. I've got a lot of respect for what both parties are trying to accomplish, but when you say "Well I'm not voting for him because he's old!" that's just stupid..not saying that anyone here has presented that argument, but when it keeps coming up as "and if McCain dies" O_o...don't worry about who's going to become President if he dies. We can deal with that if such a crazy thing were ever to happen. I mean he's seventy something and still bopping around the world with an upbeat personality, he certainly isn't being pushed in a wheel chair connected to life support. I'm sure he could crank out four more years for us lovely Americans if elected into office.

Sure he's old, we get it. Stop bringing it up and look at these people as people instead of considering one the equivalent to a dried up tomato every time someone makes an argument in favor of him.

 

[Netto Azure]

Ok...

That's not very funny..

And have people heard of living until ninety years old these days? Or heck, even eighty-three? It's happening more and more now that we've got these crazy new things called..well, hospitals. McCain might be old, but he isn't going to die the VERY SECOND he gets into office. This idea is the only thing that really bugs me when people say that. I've got a lot of respect for what both parties are trying to accomplish, but when you say "Well I'm not voting for him because he's old!" that's just stupid..not saying that anyone here has presented that argument, but when it keeps coming up as "and if McCain dies" O_o...don't worry about who's going to become President if he dies. We can deal with that if such a crazy thing were ever to happen. I mean he's seventy something and still bopping around the world with an upbeat personality, he certainly isn't being pushed in a wheel chair connected to life support. I'm sure he could crank out four more years for us lovely Americans if elected into office.

Sure he's old, we get it. Stop bringing it up and look at these people as people instead of considering one the equivalent to a dried up tomato every time someone makes an argument in favor of him.

I understand your sentiment that it wasn't funny. But if I don't keep myself upbeat in this already historic election (Made even more historic in this exceptional economic week.) I'll probably become more depressed and ultimately not care. Don't think of me as someone who does not respect our soldiers making the ultimate sacrifice. (I could see the hint in that single sentence.)

I do agree that McCain will live on...but there is still that chance...(at the same time there is also the chance of Obama being assassinated.) But yes let's not make that an issue (just another stupid campaign distraction at least we are no longer paying attention to that lipstick-gate)...and actually talk about the real issues such as the economy, education, health-care, and foreign policy.


I think this financial economic meltdown refocuses the general public's attention to the real issues...Which is a good thing...It might even encourage more people to be part of the political process or vote.


Also I know, many would disagree though, that Bush 2008 isn't Bush 2001-2004 (I'm not defending his massive blunders it's just too massive and obvious, they are blunders. His administration still deserves the blame.) He has taken a more "normal" political approach such as diplomacy unlike his former doctrine of full-on conservatism. So the next administration should check out what Bush '09 does instead of reversing everything.

 

[Volkner's Apprentice]

Sorry about that tommy, I only partially hinted about the soldiers-care, but the main reason was just the subject matter, I just don't like it when people let things slip on that note since I'm an army brat. No worries! I totally feel the same way about the election and the future of our nation, there's just too many things to get depressed about that we need to make sure we stay positive! ^_^

 

[Netto Azure]

Sorry about that tommy, I only partially hinted about the soldiers-care, but the main reason was just the subject matter, I just don't like it when people let things slip on that note since I'm an army brat. No worries! I totally feel the same way about the election and the future of our nation, there's just too many things to get depressed about that we need to make sure we stay positive! ^_^

Thanks =D I just don't feel right having to watch my back for enemies so I try to mitigate or apologize. But hey that's politics D=

Anyways as a topic for debate since the economy isn't our strong suit:

How should we address the education crisis?

I know some of you guys touched on this earlier. I mean seriously my HS has a 50% Drop-out rate =O Please try to convince me since I really just think that students aren't motivated enough. We already tried accountability through No Child Left Behind (Congress should just make a law called "NO ONE LEFT BEHIND") and it had mixed results at best.

Also on the issue of the economy...If you are well versed on that topic or have a opinion on the candidates position...don't be discouraged...help us understand.

I was listening to PBS earlier and this quote really "stuck" on my head: "Remember when people said earlier that they could see the light at the end of the tunnel? That was just the headlights of the train that we were going to hit."

Also what do you people think of one-issue voters (Of course they exist...) you might consider them swing voters who could turn this election around (I know they're a small group but remember how "weird" the Electoral College System is set up...that could change everything (:_: )
​

 

[Volkner's Apprentice]

Also what do you people think of one-issue voters (Of course they exist...) you might consider them swing voters who could turn this election around (I know they're a small group but remember how "weird" the Electoral College System is set up...that could change everything (:_: )

You mean specifically people who vote based solely on candidates views of say, the economy, or education or something? They definitely exist..I get a lot of one winded responses like "Well...um...but THE WAR!" Yeah..alright, sure, there's the war, but howz about teh rest of the nation? O_o haha. So obviously I'm not a fan. I don't, however, blame some of these people, because a lot of them are high school/college level or extremely religious parents or stuff like that and simply haven't educated themselves enough in all-around politics. I was definitely one of these, basing most of my views off of abortion, gun control, marriage laws, etc. Kind of lame, but I've broadened my horizons. Wheeeee.


As for education...hm. Yeah i think our HS drop out rate was pretty bad, which really surprised me. We definitely need some nation-wide gimmicks to get more motivation in the classroom especially the second kids hit high school in 8th-10th grade (depending on where you live.) Honestly, I think I could have been a 5 class AP student my senior year had it not been for laziness, boredom, and all around uninteresting teaching methods during my middle school/9-10th grades.

 

[Aurafire]

I'm definitely all for more spending on education. I was personally very displeased with the quality of our teachers...I could have taught better than some of them -_-

 

[Allstories]

McCain might be old, but he isn't going to die the VERY SECOND he gets into office.

Even if he has a good chance of living, you still never know, and it strikes me as incredibly selfish and negligent to put our country on the line like that.

 

[Ivysaur]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/18/bizarre-mccain-remarks-ap_n_127346.html

So it seems that Mr. Foreign Policy doesn't know where is Spain, doesn't know who is the Spanish Prime Minister, or thinks that Spain, a NATO member and an US ally, may be potentially dangerous in the fight for global democracy.

Kudos for McCain.

 

[Volkner's Apprentice]

This is kind of off topic, but do you live in Spain, Went? :P What's the government like there?

 

[Red1530]

I would like to address the concerns about Governor Palin. When she was nominated for Vice-President, she already had more experience then Senator Obama. She ran a small town and a small business. She is currently running a state and while running that state took on corruption in her own party. While she lacks foreign policy experience, she is not going to be conducting foreign policy. It is highly unlikely that if Senator McCain was elected President, he is going to die in the first thirty days office. So if McCain dies in office, Palin will be ready as she has some time for training, unlike to top spot.

 

[Allstories]

She is absolutely NOT more experienced than Barack Obama. Jesus christ there is more to being a president than being in some kind of two-bit executive position (not to mention she's the governor of ALASKA, which has fewer residents than a good number of major US cities, and is second only to maybe Hawaii in terms of being isolated from the rest of the country). George W. Bush was the governor of TEXAS (the second most populated state in the US!) and he turned out to be, by all accounts, one of the worst presidents we've ever had. Ever. (Seriously, at least the Ohio Gang was prosecuted for their crimes. You'll probably never be able to say that about the dudes we have now)

What the hell is it that makes this lady so goddamn special? Obama was a Harvard Law graduate, a goddamn constitutional law TEACHER at the University of Chicago for twelve years, and then a member of the senate for the last twelve years. His personality when speaking suggests that he is an intelligent, rational man with a very calm and friendly, albeit serious demeanor. Governor Palin, by comparison, comes off as utterly retarded, and displaying no discernable understanding of how our country works. Have you seen the interviews with her? She doesn't know anything except that everything is in god's hands and we should trust god to fix our problems. Have you been paying attention to the press conferences with her? That's right, you HAVEN'T, BECAUSE THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY KNOWS THAT SHE DOESN'T KNOW A GODDAMN THING AND ARE SHELTERING HER FROM THE PUBLIC.

There isn't a chance in hell that thirty days of McCain being in the White House is going to make her any more prepared to lead our country if she should need to. Merely being in an executive position does not magically imbue you with years-worth of political knowledge and experience and make you suddenly able to suspend your biases and know how to seperate church and state and all that other noise. The fact that McCain picked her as his VP is the biggest insult to our country in years and both of them should be disqualified from the election and then deported for their sheer selfishness, greed, and stupidity.

Note: Text outlined in RED denotes emotional hyperbole and should not be used as an excuse to ignore the rest of this post. Even though it's all true.

 

[Aurafire]

She is absolutely NOT more experienced than Barack Obama. Jesus christ there is more to being a president than being in some kind of two-bit executive position (not to mention she's the governor of ALASKA, which has fewer residents than a good number of major US cities, and is second only to maybe Hawaii in terms of being isolated from the rest of the country). George W. Bush was the governor of TEXAS (the second most populated state in the US!) and he turned out to be, by all accounts, one of the worst presidents we've ever had. Ever. (Seriously, at least the Ohio Gang was prosecuted for their crimes. You'll probably never be able to say that about the dudes we have now)

What the hell is it that makes this lady so goddamn special? Obama was a Harvard Law graduate, a goddamn constitutional law TEACHER at the University of Chicago for twelve years, and then a member of the senate for the last twelve years. His personality when speaking suggests that he is an intelligent, rational man with a very calm and friendly, albeit serious demeanor. Governor Palin, by comparison, comes off as utterly retarded, and displaying no discernable understanding of how our country works. Have you seen the interviews with her? She doesn't know anything except that everything is in god's hands and we should trust god to fix our problems. Have you been paying attention to the press conferences with her? That's right, you HAVEN'T, BECAUSE THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY KNOWS THAT SHE DOESN'T KNOW A GODDAMN THING AND ARE SHELTERING HER FROM THE PUBLIC.

There isn't a chance in hell that thirty days of McCain being in the White House is going to make her any more prepared to lead our country if she should need to. Merely being in an executive position does not magically imbue you with years-worth of political knowledge and experience and make you suddenly able to suspend your biases and know how to seperate church and state and all that other noise. The fact that McCain picked her as his VP is the biggest insult to our country in years and both of them should be disqualified from the election and then deported for their sheer selfishness, greed, and stupidity.

Note: Text outlined in RED denotes emotional hyperbole and should not be used as an excuse to ignore the rest of this post. Even though it's all true.

The thing you don't realize is that your argument sounds exactly as ridiculous to Republicans as ours probably does to you. You trying to say Obama has more experience than Palin is just as ridiculous.

Get the hell out of your stupid little liberal fantasy world an WAKE UP! Respect other peoples opinions, Don't insult them. I don't hate Obama, I just don't think he's qualified to be president. Being a law professor at UChicago doesn't qualify him AT ALL to be president. And those 12 years of senate duty were not all in the US senate. Do I have to call him utterly retarded? Absolutely not. I even respect him in some ways. He's done some pretty incredible things. You on the other hand, feel the need to treat the other side as though they are young, stupid, reckless, and naive children who don't know anything.

Let me tell you something: Sarah Palin has actual MORALS upon which she bases her decisions and policies. Sure, she's religious and traditional. But they are her personal beliefs, which you feel the need to make fun because they are different than yours. What happened to that liberal fairness we're all so fond of? Oh wait, that's right! It's only fair if you believe exactly what they believe! Other wise, you're just a complete idiot!

Because, you see, Liberals are the biggest hypocrites in the world. They preach fairness and equality, yet violently attack those with different beliefs (much like you have). They hide under the veil of patriotism and liberty, yet feel the need to DRASTICALLY change what has made America so great and prosperous. You claim to be calm and fair-headed, yet jump down the throats of those that oppose you. (see above quote). What's the matter? Does little bitty Sarah Palin frighten you? Does she threaten your incredibly warped and ridiculous views on how America is the enemy and we must apologize to the world for our great sins against humanity? You claim to care about America and it's future, but the only thing you care about is getting Obama into office and dragging America towards secular-progressivism and total destruction of basic values that our country holds dear. You claim to love your country, but really....do you?

I don't expect you to understand what I've just said, because you've already fallen into your liberal fantasy world, and you've passed the point of no return. I've tried to be civil and respectful when debating you in this thread, but when you write stuff like you've just written, I've lost all respect. Calling Sarah Palin utterly retarded? Where's your liberal kindness? Face it dude, you only respect people who think like you. If you actually believe that McCain and Palin should be deported, you really are quite a moron. Last time I checked, selfishness greed and stupidity were not grounds for deportation (Oh wait! That's right! John McCain and Sarah Palin actually like America and what we stand for!)

I don't agree with Obama, but I don't call him stupid and retarded like you do to Sarah Palin. That is what sets us apart. Oh and by the way, Obama is just as inexperienced as Palin...deal with it. Don't cry about it.

~Apologies to those I've offended, but it needed to be said.~

 

[Allstories]

Because, you see, Liberals are the biggest hypocrites in the world. They preach fairness and equality, yet violently attack those with different beliefs (much like you have). They hide under the veil of patriotism and liberty, yet feel the need to DRASTICALLY change what has made America so great and prosperous. You claim to be calm and fair-headed, yet jump down the throats of those that oppose you. (see above quote). What's the matter? Does little bitty Sarah Palin frighten you? Does she threaten your incredibly warped and ridiculous views on how America is the enemy and we must apologize to the world for our great sins against humanity? You claim to care about America and it's future, but the only thing you care about is getting Obama into office and dragging America towards secular-progressivism and total destruction of basic values that our country holds dear. You claim to love your country, but really....do you?

Way to put like a million words in my mouth. You're not even arguing with me, you're arguing with your own imaginary defeatist liberal nemesis. When did I say all the things you just said I said? You're making stuff up. You're just taking all these vague generalizations about liberals that you have and just throwing them at me haphazardly without attacking any of my actual arguments. Stop hiding.

If you actually believe that McCain and Palin should be deported, you really are quite a moron. Last time I checked, selfishness greed and stupidity were not grounds for deportation (Oh wait! That's right! John McCain and Sarah Palin actually like America and what we stand for!)

Way to ignore my disclaimer there, chief.

I don't agree with Obama, but I don't call him stupid and retarded like you do to Sarah Palin. That is what sets us apart. Oh and by the way, Obama is just as inexperienced as Palin...deal with it. Don't cry about it.

How? Considering all the facts, how is Palin more experienced than Obama? At all? This woman doesn't know what the freakin' Bush doctrine is, or even what the job she is running for actually involves! If Obama or even just Joe Biden displayed this kind of ignorance and naivete the Republicans would rip him to shreds, but if a woman is ignorant it's okay! She just loves our country! Reality be damned! Let's coddle her into one of the most important and powerful positions in the world!

Aura, I want you to be straight with me here. Instead of prancing around the issue and victimizing yourself, tell me straight:

• Why is it okay that millions of people in our country are left simply unable to afford health care, whereas practically every other country in the deveoped world has a universal health care system?
• Why is it okay that Palin claims to have respected her daughters right to choose when she herself opposes the right to choose even in the case of rape or incest?
• Why is it okay that Palin attributes so many of her political positions to 'faith' in a country that is supposed to separate church and state?
• Why is okay for Palin to claim to have foreign policy experience because of her proximity to Russia? (Need I point out that the part of Russia that her state borders is scarcely populated and is, ironically, pretty much the Alaska of Russia?
• Why is it okay to NOT know what the Bush Doctrine is?
• What makes Palin more qualified than George W. Bush?
• What 'basic values' of our country would be destroyed by 'secular-progressivism' if Obama gets elected? Be specific.

And for the record, I love my country, but it's because I care about it that I can't close my eyes and stick my fingers in my ears and say 'lalalalala' in the face of serious issues.

 

[Aurafire]

Way to put like a million words in my mouth. You're not even arguing with me, you're arguing with your own imaginary defeatist liberal nemesis. You're just taking all these vague generalizations about liberals that you have and just throwing them at me haphazardly without attacking any of my actual arguments. Stop hiding.

My generalizations about liberals are not vague, you just proved that to me with your original post about Palin being "retarded" and worthy of being deported. My post was not about your arguments, it was about general liberal beliefs that you obviously agree with. I don't feel like I can address an argument as silly as someone being stupid and retarded when they are obviously not. And I will stand by and defend every one of my statements about liberals, just like you stand by your beliefs about conservatives.

Way to ignore my disclaimer there, chief.

The mere fact that you believe so strongly in McCain and Palin are insulting to America and are stupid and greedy is so foreign to me, even mentioning something like deporting them is quite angering. That's just me though.

How? Considering all the facts, how is Palin more experienced than Obama? At all? This woman doesn't know what the freakin' Bush doctrine is, or even what the job she is running for actually involves! If Obama or even just Joe Biden displayed this kind of ignorance and naivete the Republicans would rip him to shreds, but if a woman is ignorant it's okay! She just loves our country! Reality be damned! Let's coddle her into one of the most important and powerful positions in the developed world!

I never said more experienced, I said she had close to an equal amount of experience. First of all, any "ripping apart of" by republican would probably be doused by the liberal media anyway. Second, how can you even say that about coddling her into an important position when you have someone just as inexperienced running for the actual PRESIDENCY. You CANNOT compare the two at all. From my perspective, Obama getting into office would be just as disastrous as Palin getting elected vice president (Key word: VICE). To try to put it in perspective, you absolutely abhor McCain and Palin. You call them stupid and retarded. You hate them and what they stand for. I don't hate Obama. I don't think he's stupid (He's obviously a very intelligent man). I just strongly disagree with his policies, I'm not unreasonable about it. What bothers me is that on top of disagreeing with the republican's policies and beliefs, you have to sink to name-calling and verbal abuse. This leads me to believe that you have an irrational hate for those who don't share your beliefs. Really, is retarded a good word for either McCain or Palin? I'd even let "naive" slide, but retarded? Sorry, you went way too far.

Aura, I want you to be straight with me here. Instead of prancing around the issue and victimizing yourself, tell me straight:

• Why is it okay that millions of people in our country are left simply unable to afford health care, whereas practically every other country in the deveoped world has a universal health care system?
• Why is it okay that Palin claims to have respected her daughters right to choose when she herself opposes the right to choose even in the case of rape or incest?
• Why is it okay that Palin attributes so many of her political positions to 'faith' in a country that is supposed to separate church and state?
• Why is okay for Palin to claim to have foreign policy experience because of her proximity to Russia? (Need I point out that the part of Russia that her state borders is scarcely populated and is, ironically, pretty much the Alaska of Russia?
• Why is it okay to NOT know what the Bush Doctrine is?
• What makes Palin more qualified than George W. Bush?

I'll try to be as straight as I can (I'll just number your points in numerical order):

1. It's absolutely not ok, and I'm for reforming the healthcare system so that people aren't left behind. I'm not totally blind to the healthcare problems we have in this country, and I think they can be addressed without the use of socialized medicine. Sorry, I just don't agree with this. You might call those who don't want to pay more taxes to support universal healthcare greedy and selfish, but 1.Is it fair to some one who worked hard, went to college, got a degree and made money have it taken away from them and given to someone who say...didn't go to college, didn't work hard, and now needs the government to support them? (Yeah, yeah, this doesn't apply to everyone. Some people aren't at fault for being in poverty, but then again, some are.) And: 2. Where's that liberal fairness we all love? Like they say "Equality and Fairness, unless you're rich in which case we're taking your money." It works in other countries because other countries accept these socialistic policies, but I do not, and others will agree with me. (Note: Republicans. and that's a fair amount of people)

2. She's a mother. Her judgement here was obviously affected by strong emotions. You're telling me that if you were pro-life and your daughter got pregnant, you wouldn't care about how this would affect your daughters life? On the one hand, you could stick to your guns and say "No abortion", or you could actually give a darn about the welfare of your daughter. Having a child at that age is never good, and what kind of mother would she be if she didn't take that into account? I'm Pro-choice, and if my daughter was pregnant, I'd be conflicted as well. I can over-look this and give her some slack, but obviously will follow this to no end to see her suffer because of this.

3. Oh blah, blah, blah...separation of church and state. How can you truly separate church and state when so many of our laws are linked so closely to religion? How about things like Gay marriage and Abortion? You would truly ask people to put their core beliefs aside and make a decision on this issue without first remembering how they grew up and how they live their life? You might as well ask everyone to not have morals and be atheists. Would that be the fairness that liberals are so fond of?

4. It's not, I don't agree that she has a lot of foreign policy experience. But that really isn't the biggest issue for me. Plus, Newsflash, she's running for vice president, not president. You would have me believe that Obama has legitimate foreign policy experience? Sorry, a few trips to Iraq and one senate term doesn't cut it for me.

5. I'm currently not very educated about the circumstances of what exactly happened when she said that, so you win for now.

6. What kind of question is that? I'll point out again, Palin IS NOT running for president. If the American people didn't think that Bush was qualified, they wouldn't have voted for him...twice. I was 10 years old when the 2000 election took place, and 2004 I wasn't quite as educated as I am now, so surprise, I'm not well versed on Bush's qualifications before he was elected, but I can tell you that one term of presidency sure as heck qualifies you for another, no matter how much you might disagree with his policies.

And for the record, I love my country, but it's because I care about it that I can't close my eyes and stick my fingers in my ears and say 'lalalalala' in the face of serious issues.

If you loved America, you wouldn't be ashamed of it and what issues might be of importance. When your solution to our problems is to radically change what has made us so great, I don't buy that as patriotism. I'm not against change. The world is evolving, and so should we. But I think the media blows our problems out of proportion and creates an intense nervousness in people that causes them to panic and demand radical change that is not needed. The foundations of our country are strong. I believe in the policies that made America the great country that it is today, and I'm not going to scrap everything just because we have a few issues. Issues come and go, just as they always have. Did people in the past panic like they did today? No they did not.

That's as clear as I can possibly be.

 

[Ivysaur]

Because, you see, Liberals are the biggest hypocrites in the world. They preach fairness and equality, yet violently attack those with different beliefs (much like you have). They hide under the veil of patriotism and liberty, yet feel the need to DRASTICALLY change what has made America so great and prosperous. You claim to be calm and fair-headed, yet jump down the throats of those that oppose you. (see above quote). What's the matter? Does little bitty Sarah Palin frighten you? Does she threaten your incredibly warped and ridiculous views on how America is the enemy and we must apologize to the world for our great sins against humanity? You claim to care about America and it's future, but the only thing you care about is getting Obama into office and dragging America towards secular-progressivism and total destruction of basic values that our country holds dear. You claim to love your country, but really....do you?

Well, let me summary this point: in the elections, you have to choose between the people who support the ways that once made the US as big and successful as they once were (but not anymore *COUGH!* Just watch the news), and the people who want to try leaving the traditional ways and finding an actual and modern way to make the US glorious once again. You can say "if the old ways once worked, why wouldn't they work anymore?", but, once again, if everyone thought that, we wouldn't have moved on from the Middle Ages.

1. It's absolutely not ok, and I'm for reforming the healthcare system so that people aren't left behind. I'm not totally blind to the healthcare problems we have in this country, and I think they can be addressed without the use of socialized medicine. Sorry, I just don't agree with this. You might call those who don't want to pay more taxes to support universal healthcare greedy and selfish, but 1.Is it fair to some one who worked hard, went to college, got a degree and made money have it taken away from them and given to someone who say...didn't go to college, didn't work hard, and now needs the government to support them? (Yeah, yeah, this doesn't apply to everyone. Some people aren't at fault for being in poverty, but then again, some are.) And: 2. Where's that liberal fairness we all love? Like they say "Equality and Fairness, unless you're rich in which case we're taking your money." It works in other countries because other countries accept these socialistic policies, but I do not, and others will agree with me. (Note: Republicans. and that's a fair amount of people)

I still think that your perception about universal health care is wrong, darn it, almost every single country in Europe has it and it's not that horribly unfair. In fact, is infinitely fairer than the "money or die from a illness" scenario.

2. She's a mother. Her judgement here was obviously affected by strong emotions. You're telling me that if you were pro-life and your daughter got pregnant, you wouldn't care about how this would affect your daughters life? On the one hand, you could stick to your guns and say "No abortion", or you could actually give a darn about the welfare of your daughter. Having a child at that age is never good, and what kind of mother would she be if she didn't take that into account? I'm Pro-choice, and if my daughter was pregnant, I'd be conflicted as well. I can over-look this and give her some slack, but obviously will follow this to no end to see her suffer because of this.

Choice is the word. Palin doesn't support choice, just "If you are pregnant, you MUST have the baby". That's why the controversy arose. Unless her morals are "If you are pregnant, you MUST have the baby unless you are a member of my family".

3. Oh blah, blah, blah...separation of church and state. How can you truly separate church and state when so many of our laws are linked so closely to religion? How about things like Gay marriage and Abortion? You would truly ask people to put their core beliefs aside and make a decision on this issue without first remembering how they grew up and how they live their life? You might as well ask everyone to not have morals and be atheists. Would that be the fairness that liberals are so fond of?

I'll repeat that word: CHOICE. It's not "Now we'll force every single person in the world to abort, marry people of their same gender and becime atheistic MUHAHAHA!" It's just allowing the people who doesn't care about going to hell to do all of that. Like in more and more of the civilized countries, by the way.

4. It's not, I don't agree that she has a lot of foreign policy experience. But that really isn't the biggest issue for me. Plus, Newsflash, she's running for vice president, not president. You would have me believe that Obama has legitimate foreign policy experience? Sorry, a few trips to Iraq and one senate term doesn't cut it for me.

Read the post I made some posts before. McCain just lost his place of "Mr. Foreign Policy expert" for me some days ago.

If you loved America, you wouldn't be ashamed of it and what issues might be of importance. When your solution to our problems is to radically change what has made us so great, I don't buy that as patriotism. I'm not against change.

Cannot compute. Error.

The world is evolving, and so should we. But I think the media blows our problems out of proportion and creates an intense nervousness in people that causes them to panic and demand radical change that is not needed. The foundations of our country are strong. I believe in the policies that made America the great country that it is today, and I'm not going to scrap everything just because we have a few issues. Issues come and go, just as they always have. Did people in the past panic like they did today? No they did not.

That's as clear as I can possibly be.

...a few? I'm sure you haven't fully read the news, the US is going to have the biggest economical depression since 1929. Even George W. Bush is buying SOCIALIST economical solutions to prevent the US economy from sinking in the mud. The problems are darn big, and, as I said before, if the policies you have been following for the last half of century have caused this, wouldn't be good a bit of change, for once.

And don't tell me McCain is the candidate who will make a change in the Republican policies. Because I'll start laughing. You can't be a conservative 72 years old guy and pretend to make people think you'll change something more than the minimum required not to go into complete destruction.

 

[Aurafire]

Well, let me summary this point: in the elections, you have to choose between the people who support the ways that once made the US as big and successful as they once were (but not anymore *COUGH!* Just watch the news), and the people who want to try leaving the traditional ways and finding an actual and modern way to make the US glorious once again. You can say "if the old ways once worked, why wouldn't they work anymore?", but, once again, if everyone thought that, we wouldn't have moved on from the Middle Ages.

Yes....? What did any of that have to do with what I said about liberals? You might for drastic change to restore the U.S. to it's "former" glory. See? There you go again with the "America is broken" stuff. You think just because the U.S. has problems we're suddenly a horrible country to live in? Now you know why I call you hypocrites. You say you are patriots and love your country, but cannot bear to call it great anymore. You just said it above me, you don't think the U.S. is glorious. This isn't the first time we've had problems, and won't be the last. You want to scrap everything and start over again? We've dealt with problems before without a massive overhaul of old policies, why can't we do it now?

I don't believe everything I see on the news, because I know they are liberally biased and trying to get me to think differently than I do now. Oh wait! Solution! FOX NEWS! The only reason people hate it so much is that it's not liberally biased! They give you the news, and let you decide. Isn't that what news is supposed to be? Try watching it sometime, and maybe the haze of the liberal media will clear and the so called "crises" we have in this country won't look as bad as other news networks make them out to be.

I still think that your perception about universal health care is wrong, darn it, almost every single country in Europe has it and it's not that horribly unfair. In fact, is infinitely fairer than the "money or die from a illness" scenario.

That's your opinion.

Choice is the word. Palin doesn't support choice, just "If you are pregnant, you MUST have the baby". That's why the controversy arose. Unless her morals are "If you are pregnant, you MUST have the baby unless you are a member of my family".

Let me clearly state her morals for you "If you are pregnant, you MUST have the baby, unless you are a member of my family, in which case I might show a little more concern for someone I care about. I don't want to see their life ruined by having a child at such an early age, but because I am pro-life, they should and will have the baby. I may have simply used the wrong word when I said "choice", but I'm a mother and I love my children. I'm not cold and heartless, so naturally I might say some things I don't mean. I wish liberals would stop taking everything I say out of context."

Better?

I'll repeat that word: CHOICE. It's not "Now we'll force every single person in the world to abort, marry people of their same gender and becime atheistic MUHAHAHA!" It's just allowing the people who doesn't care about going to hell to do all of that. Like in more and more of the civilized countries, by the way.

Excuse me, but did you just call the U.S. less civilized than other countries because we don't allow abortion and gay marriage in our country? Mmm....Nice one. Honestly, I'm pretty apathetic about the gay marriage thing. It's going to happen at some point, just a matter of time. But abortion is just flat out wrong and I happen to believe we would be MORE civilized if we didn't allow it. Or is it civil to kill infants before they are even born? My mistake, murder is completely fair.

Read the post I made some posts before. McCain just lost his place of "Mr. Foreign Policy expert" for me some days ago.

Wow, you really do believe everything you read, don't you? I saw your article, and if that particular news outlet happened to be fair and show both sides of the argument, I might have paid some real attention to it. And that certainly isn't going to make me turn around and vote for someone with barely any foreign policy experience.

Cannot compute. Error.

I lol'd at this. As I've said time and time again, I'm not against change. I'm against to drastic change that Obama wants in the U.S...There's a difference.

...a few? I'm sure you haven't fully read the news, the US is going to have the biggest economical depression since 1929. Even George W. Bush is buying SOCIALIST economical solutions to prevent the US economy from sinking in the mud. The problems are darn big, and, as I said before, if the policies you have been following for the last half of century have caused this, wouldn't be good a bit of change, for once.

WHOA. We agree on something! Sure, every now and then the government needs to come in to help out! And yes it's a big problem. But this is not because of our economic policies. Where did you get that?

And don't tell me McCain is the candidate who will make a change in the Republican policies. Because I'll start laughing. You can't be a conservative 72 years old guy and pretend to make people think you'll change something more than the minimum required not to go into complete destruction.

Who said they needed changing? =P

You've caused me to be late for class haha, but thanks for addressing my points. I always enjoy a good debate.

 

[Allstories]

You think just because the U.S. has problems we're suddenly a horrible country to live in? Now you know why I call you hypocrites. You say you are patriots and love your country, but cannot bear to call it great anymore. You just said it above me, you don't think the U.S. is glorious.

STOP DOING THIS. STOP IT. You are not even arguing with us. You are just putting words in our mouths and arguing against points that we literally aren't even making. Do you understand? Neither me nor Went said that we think the United States is a horrible place, you paranoid cretin. We just think that it has some problems. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BLINDLY BELIEVE THAT A COUNTRY IS A GODDAMNED UTOPIA IN ORDER TO CARE ABOUT IT. Seriously, assuming you aren't autistic or something, I can't understand how you can be so obtuse about everything.

Oh wait! Solution! FOX NEWS! The only reason people hate it so much is that it's not liberally biased!

Hey yeah, they're just conservatively biased! That's so much better!

I wish liberals would stop taking everything I say out of context."

Do you not realize the irony here.

But abortion is just flat out wrong and I happen to believe we would be MORE civilized if we didn't allow it. Or is it civil to kill infants before they are even born? My mistake, murder is completely fair.

Is there a religious basis for that opinion? If there is, I guess I'll respect that (even if the country is supposed to be religiously neutral), but otherwise, from a scientific standpoint, it's just a bunch of cells, and it's hardly anything more than the millions of sperm cells swimming around in your junk as we speak. I fail to understand why a cluster of cells should be regarded as more important than the life of the mother, ESPECIALLY in the case of rape or incest. Raising a child is no walk in the park. By the way, did you know McCain and Palin believe that the victims should be the ones to foot the bill on a rape kit? What do you have to say about that?