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US Elections 2008: Debate the Issues

Which party are you voting for? (If you could vote...) Foreigners are welcomed.

  • Democratic Party (Obama/Biden...Your Democratic Congressman/Senator)

    Votes: 98 63.2%
  • Republican Party (McCain/Palin...Your Republican Congressman/Senator)

    Votes: 31 20.0%
  • Third Party (Green, Liberatarian...etc.)

    Votes: 7 4.5%
  • I'm disillusioned. It's all campaign rhetoric I won't even bother to vote...

    Votes: 19 12.3%

  • Total voters
    155
  • Poll closed .

ChronicEdge

Space Lion
  • 404
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    16
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    As far as I view it, we're screwed for the next four years. If McCain is elected, nothing will change because he's a Republican. If Obama is elected, nothing will change because he is incapable. (In his own words: "I got elected to the US Senate. I haven't done anything yet."
     
  • 9,468
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    Hillary..eh...

    your telling me

    a fun fact.
    It's always a good time for a fun fact.

    ---

    anyway, staying on topic, another issue I have observed:

    when Hillary was running against Obama for Democrat,
    I can't tell you the amount of people in my school who voted for her just because she was the first woman ever to do so.

    now she's out.

    NOW, McCain decides to have a FEMALE running mate.
    guess what percent of hiliary's votes are going to Palin?

    The point is, I don't like people who just vote because of what the people who are running are.

    If there was a female democrat/republican, and she was T3H BEST THING TO COME TO POLITICS SINCE BUTTA ON TOAST,
    you know I would vote for her.

    If she sucked, I would vote for the other.

    don't vote for someone whos "2 t3h X-tream" because they are are different gender/race/sexuality/etc.

    vote for someone who actually can do a good job.

    Eh...I supported Hillary during the Primaries because she had the experience to blunt McCain's arguments and I supported her positions on various issues (such as health-care...even though she sold herself to "old-enemies") The gender issue is just a plus.
     

    SpartanPatriot

    It was fun....goodbye.
  • 156
    Posts
    15
    Years
    As far as I view it, we're screwed for the next four years. If McCain is elected, nothing will change because he's a Republican. If Obama is elected, nothing will change because he is incapable. (In his own words: "I got elected to the US Senate. I haven't done anything yet."

    This is not really true...Were much better off with one of those two then Bush.
     
  • 9,468
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    Hmm..

    This is not really true...Were much better off with one of those two then Bush.

    True...since McCain is a Progressive Conservative (Oxymoron much?) and Obama is a Progressive-Centrist...at least they're not going to drive us again like the Bush/Republican Congress since if McCain wins he still has to deal with a hostile Democratic Congress (Which my Algebra 2 teacher says is what "Average Americans" secretly want since a deadlocked government theoretically doesn't intrude on people.) But hey what do you call the PATRIOT Act and the "Anti-Terror" Laws but intruding on peoples right to privacy.
     

    Aurafire

    provider of cake
  • 5,736
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    True...since McCain is a Progressive Conservative (Oxymoron much?) and Obama is a Progressive-Centrist...at least they're not going to drive us again like the Bush/Republican Congress since if McCain wins he still has to deal with a hostile Democratic Congress (Which my Algebra 2 teacher says is what "Average Americans" secretly want since a deadlocked government theoretically doesn't intrude on people.) But hey what do you call the PATRIOT Act and the "Anti-Terror" Laws but intruding on peoples right to privacy.

    Tommy, I have to keep pointing this out. Obama is in no way centrist. He just isn't. Ok maybe one or two policies he has some opinions that can be considered moderate, but overall he is incredibly slanted to the left. What is it that makes you think he's centrist?
     

    SpartanPatriot

    It was fun....goodbye.
  • 156
    Posts
    15
    Years
    Obama is in no way centrist. He just isn't. Ok maybe one or two policies he has some opinions that can be considered moderate, but overall he is incredibly slanted to the left. What is it that makes you think he's centrist?

    https://www.progressive.org/mag/rc070108

    https://thehill.com/leading-the-news/dems-follow-obama-down-centrist-path-2008-07-09.html

    Also, check this out guys....

    Don Feder said:
    I just got back from the annual Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Washington, D.C., where conservatives began lining up behind a man who's been sticking it to us for years. By a process of self-hypnosis, many have managed to convince themselves that McCain is actually one of us.


    Not for nothing did Benjamin Disraeli call conservatives the stupid party.


    What part of John McCain do we not get? McCain-Kennedy, McCain-Feingold, McCain-Lieberman, McCain-Edwards -- among other socialist, anti-speech, open-borders, enviro-Marxist measures he's co-sponsored with the hardcore left of the Democratic Party over the years.

    If Il Duce had served with him in the United States Senate, there would be McCain-Mussolini.

    The moment Mitt Romney "suspended" his campaign and McCain became inevitable, the squawking began: "You mean you'd actually prefer Hillary or Obama (judges)? At least McCain is pro-life (judges). He's a war hero who'll ably lead us in the War on Terrorism (judges). Did we mention that he'll appoint conservative judges?"

    Before the chorus of amnesiac Chicken Littles drowns out the voices of reason, here are 10 reasons why conservatives should sever their right hands at the wrist before they pull the McCain lever in November:

    1. Immigration – He's not just pro-open borders, he's Senor Amnesty – co-sponsor of McCain-Kennedy, which would have legalized 15 million illegal aliens, allowed them to bring in tens of millions of their mooching relatives (including the elderly and infirm), given them credit for past Social Security contributions, etc. The Heritage Foundation's Robert Rector said McCain-Kennedy would have constituted the largest expansion of the welfare state in U.S. history (at an estimated cost of $2.6 trillion). A Republican who served with McNasty in the Senate said he was forever haranguing his GOP colleagues about being perceived as "xenophobes" for not supporting amnesty. At CPAC, he told conservatives he's heard us. He'll secure the borders first, then push amnesty – which, of course, will negate anything he does at the border. Build it (a suicidal welfare state that embraces alien intruders), and a fence won't keep them out.
    2. Multiculturalism – If his advocacy of open borders wasn't enough, McCain has also opposed official English and supported bi-lingual education (two more issues where he's out-of-step with the overwhelming majority of his countrymen). McCain even voted for an amendment that would have codified Clinton's Executive Order 13166, requiring recipients of federal funding, like hospitals, to provide translation services in any language requested. (When it comes to pandering, cost is no object.) No wonder he's a hero to LULAC (the separatist League of United Latin American Citizens), Geraldo Rivera and Juan Hernandez (his Hispanic outreach director, who says he'd like 7th. generation Mexican-Americans to think of themselves as Mexicans first). Look for President McCain to make Cinco de Mayo a national holiday, give his inaugural address in Arabic and light an annual Kwanza whatever on the White House lawn.
    3. Enviro-Marxism – McCain's supporters think he's just the man to lead America in the War on Terrorism. What's the principal weapon of terrorist states? Oil. What does McCain want to keep America from producing more of? Oil. In 2003, McCain was one of only 6 Republican senators to vote against drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. For McCain, keeping America dependent on Middle Eastern oil is a small price to pay to make the caribou comfortable. He's also the proud co-sponsor of McCain-Lieberman – a $660 billion monument to the myth of man-made global warming (an industry-killing cap on CO2 emissions), which would annihilate tens of thousands of American jobs and make us far less competitive. By what twisted logic does open borders, crippling U.S. industry and energy dependence equal national security?
    4. Class Warfare – In the recent debate at the Reagan Library, McCain called Romney a "manager for profits" (would he prefer a businessman who managed for losses?) who has "laid people off" – thus demonstrating how little the Senator understands the market economy. Jobs aren't permanent -- except for those who've served in the Senate for 21 years -- and sometimes they have to disappear so others can be created. In 2001, McCain was one of only two Republican Senators to vote against the Bush tax cuts. In 2003, he was one of only three. Now, he says it's because there weren't matching spending cuts. Then he called them "tax cuts for the rich." This comes from a man who never held a private-sector job and made his money the old-fashioned way – by marrying an heiress whose father subsidized his early campaigns.
    5. Abortion – McCain's vaunted pro-life voting record reflects the views of his Arizona constituents more than any real commitment. He supports subsidies for embryonic stem-cell research. In 2000, he told the San Francisco Examiner that "certainly in the short term, even in the long-term I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade." (He later reversed himself under pro-life pressure.) Most critics view McCain-Feingold as an assault on the First Amendment, which it certainly is. It's also one of the most destructive anti-life measures ever enacted by Congress. Under this so-called Campaign Finance Reform, a pro-life group can't run ads criticizing the record of a pro-abortion legislator within 60 days of a general election or 30 days of a primary. Needless to say, there's no similar gag-rule for McCain's buddies in the mainstream media. Elsewhere on the family-values front, McCain voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment. He says it's because he wants states to decide the definition of marriage (the only instance in which he's on record favoring federalism), which is the same as saying he wants activist judges to decide.
    6. Judicial Nominations – Though McCain denies it, columnist Robert Novak swears the frontrunner told him prior to confirmation of Justice Samuel Alito that the nominee was too conservative, and that he preferred those who "didn't wear their conservatism on their sleeve" (like Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy?). McCain was also part of the Gang of 14 which prevented a rules change that would have stopped unconstitutional filibusters on judicial nominations. Former New Hampshire Senator Warren Rudman was responsible for the Supreme Court nomination of David Souter -- the most disastrous Republican appointment since Earl Warren. (The play was Rudman to then-Chief of Staff John Sununu to Bush Sr.) Rudman has a prominent role in McCain's campaign. Rudman could be President McCain's Attorney General, giving him more say on judicial nominations than anyone other than the president. In his 1996 book, Rudman wrote that Christian conservatives include in their ranks "enough anti-abortion zealots, would-be censors, homophobes, bigots and latter-day Elmer Gantrys to discredit any party that is unwise enough" to align itself with them. With Warren Rudman at his side, it's anyone's guess whether McCain's Supreme Court picks would be appreciably better than Clinton's or Obama's...




    1. War on Terrorism – We've already noted McCain's support for energy dependence and his crusade for open borders. (Besides all of the rapists, drug-dealers and gang members coming across our Southern border, terrorists are also infiltrating the United States due to the de facto surrender of national sovereignty.) McCain wants to close Guantanamo and give terrorists the same rights as enemy combatants. He opposes tough interrogation techniques that leave no scars, but have elicited the intelligence that has saved American lives. (Personally, I'd use thumbscrews and the iron maiden on this scum.) A McCain anti-terrorism policy is more likely to be shaped by his friends at the ACLU and The New York Times than by the Center for Security Policy.
    2. McPsycho – McCain is famous for going postal on his Republican colleagues -- dropping the F-word, calling them f---ing idiots and worse. His dangerous inability to control his temper comes from a God-complex and an ingrained contempt for other human beings. One of his colleagues commented, "I don't want this guy anywhere near a trigger." Given his mental state, McCain could end up nuking Terre Haute instead of Tehran.
    3. Reaching across the aisle – This is media-speak for a Republican sell-out who conspires with the left. McCain doesn't reach across the aisle – he leaps. Former Senator Rick Santorum discloses: "The bottom line is that I served 12 years with him (McCain), 6 years in the United States Senate as a leader, one of the leaders of the Senate – the number-3 leader – who had the responsibility of trying to put together the conservative agenda, and at almost every turn on domestic policy, John McCain was not only against us, but leading the charge on the other side." Republican presidents who are unsure of themselves too often try to placate the other party. For McCain, working with the left is his natural inclination. He'll turn to the Kennedys, Feingolds and Liebermans not as a last resort, but as a first.
    4. Rally or Roll-Over -- If a Democrat takes the oath of office next January, Congressional Republicans will find their principles again. From 1993 to 1995, without a majority in either House, Republicans fought Bill Clinton to a legislative standstill. They went on to win the House and Senate in the 1994 election -- for the first time in 40 years – and to hold both for a decade. If McCain is elected, it will be roll-over time for Congressional Republicans – on taxes, regulation, environmentalism, speech-suppression, internationalism, multiculturalism, civil liberties for terrorists and open-borders. (When it comes to arm-twisting, Captain Queeg would make Bush look like Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm.) This time, instead of losing power for a few years, the party could be permanently discredited.

    Ultimately, all of this is academic. McCain's chances of becoming the next president are none – and none. Since 1964, Republicans have won 7 of 10 presidential elections. They lost in 1976, 1992 and 1996. Each time, the party was saddled with a standard-bearer – Ford, Bush '41, Dole – that a large part of the base couldn't stand.

    The American people are basically conservative. At some point, the Democrats always give away the game – expose themselves as the party of socialism, pacifism, racial-pandering and treason. They only win when Republicans sound an uncertain trumpet. McCain is a kazoo played by an asthmatic.

    McCain is also old, abrasive and unlovable. (It was said of Bob Dole, another war hero, that he couldn't sell beer on a troop ship. McCain couldn't give it away.) Once the Democrats pick their nominee, McCain's media cheerleaders will pack up their pompoms and move to the other side of the field.


    President Bush – he of "compassionate conservatism," mega-spending hikes and Hamas statehood– has just announced that John McCain is a "true conservative."

    I rest my case.
     
  • 9,468
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    Heee...

    Is this directed at my name? lol XD I think so.

    My Patriot in my name is for the new england patriots.

    Lulz!!! no....XP But since you put it that way yeah it's very funny.=D Just Google PATRIOT Act and you'll find out what it is (The sweeping law passed after Sept.11)


    Well thanks SpartanPatriot for the links...People on the left are seeing Obama moving MORE Centrist to pull swing voters...But Aura you have Conservative views so it's hard for you to see why I see Obama as centrist. That's why I said "Progressive-Centrist" =D (And eh it's already hard to define centrist in a Democratic Government)
     
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    Aurafire

    provider of cake
  • 5,736
    Posts
    16
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    The first link is an op-ed, the second one is just a story, it doesn't prove that he's centrist.

    And it's nice that you posted that entire story, but you miss the point. When faced with the decision this year between Obama and McCain, the conservative base might not be happy with some of McCain's policies, but that's not even close to enough reason for them to swing to the other side and vote for Obama, who cannot relate to them on any issue. Basically, you take McCain and some of his liberal policies, or take Obama and all of his liberal policies. Conservatives will choose the former, not the latter.
     

    txteclipse

    The Last
  • 2,322
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    How should we deal with Immigration?

    Legal immigration is fine. In fact, it probably even needs a bit of streamlining.

    Illegal immigration is the problem. Illegal immigrants screw over everyone: the legal immigrants they are taking opportunities from and making a bad name for, the economy they are taking money from, and the people they are taking jobs from. As far as I'm concerned, they're stealing their place in society. We might as well confiscate the money from them and their employers that is necessary to deport them. That's basically what we do with any thief: they have to return what they stole and face a penalty.
     

    SpartanPatriot

    It was fun....goodbye.
  • 156
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    15
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    Lulz!!! no....XP But since you put it that way yeah it's very funny.=D Just Google PATRIOT Act and you'll find out what it is (The sweeping law passed after Sept.11)



    Well thanks SpartanPatriot for the links...People on the left are seeing Obama moving MORE Centrist to pull swing voters...But Aura you have Conservative views so it's hard for you to see why I see Obama as centrist. That's why I said "Progressive-Centrist" =D (And eh it's already hard to define centrist in a Democratic Government)

    Well here is a video I found on youtube discussing Obama and his centrist positions...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5SPacSKS1E

    Let me know what you guys think.

    Illegal immigrants screw over everyone.

    That is not fair to say. It just is not. No offense.

    Would you want to come to America if you are in another country where you are being oppressed, are poor, and your family is dying because you cannot provide?

    People come to America illegally at times because it truly is the "land of opportunity". I believe it is fine for someone who wants to feed their children to come here and get a job. It is wrong to come here illegally but some people do it out of fear and sometimes it is the best thing to do. They should get legalized when they can but besides that they can not do much else.
     
    Last edited:

    Aurafire

    provider of cake
  • 5,736
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    16
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    Well here is a video I found on youtube discussing Obama and his centrist positions...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5SPacSKS1E

    Let me know what you guys think.

    The main article they use is from the New York Times, which is a well known liberal paper that smears conservatives. And Joe Scarborough isn't reporting the news. It's his own show, which gives his opinion, and like-wise has guests that will support him.

    It's actually quite simple: The left doesn't want you to know exactly how left Obama is (note: VERY left), so they try to paint him as a centrist so people don't realize how radical his ideas are. If people knew exactly what his policies are and what he stood for, he would never be elected, so they media is forced to try to pass him off as a moderate Democrat. Really guys, you should try to see through this kind of stuff.
     

    SpartanPatriot

    It was fun....goodbye.
  • 156
    Posts
    15
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    Man...this thread is fun! XD

    I love debating politics. Although it sucks when I lose. XD

    Anyways, I like Obama. I like Obama's ideas. His experience does not bother me. He ideas are amazing and fresh. :)
     
  • 79
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    • Seen Sep 9, 2008
    I agree with both your points..your link does make sense....but be realistic...we CANNOT deport everyone and people WILL COME BACK when the economy rebounds (eventually) so what do we do then....

    I didn't say that we should waste more tax money in deporting them. Everyone knows that's logistically impossible. You enforce what laws we have (only people legally here may get jobs), and then there's no incentive for them to come here for jobs. A few people will get under-the-table jobs while waiting at Home Depot or whatever, but as a whole, there will be a mass self-deportation.

    Imagine if all 20 million illegals went to Mexico and rebelled against their own government (yes, I know they're not all Mexicans and blah blah). It'd be better than letting them have protests against the one raid a year we have. And I'd totally support American aid to Mexico if their current government were overthrown. At the moment, it's about as dangerous to be in Mexico as it is ins Iraq. =\

    For the dude who loves news articles.

    Would you want to come to America if you are in another country where you are being oppressed, are poor, and your family is dying because you cannot provide?

    People come to America illegally at times because it truly is the "land of opportunity". I believe it is fine for someone who wants to feed their children to come here and get a job. It is wrong to come here illegally but some people do it out of fear and sometimes it is the best thing to do. They should get legalized when they can but besides that they can not do much else.
    The problem is the Latinos, generally, do not learn the language and do not try to assimilate themselves into American culture. That's why when they first had their "Day Without an Illegal Alien" protests here they were waving their own flag. Only after were they told that maybe it would make more sense to wave the flag of the country you want into. If they were, for the most part, learning the language, not getting into gangs, and not dropping out of school, I would totally be okay with them getting a mass amnesty.
     
  • 2,010
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    20
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    • Age 34
    • Seen Jun 2, 2014
    The problem is the Latinos, generally, do not learn the language and do not try to assimilate themselves into American culture. That's why when they first had their "Day Without an Illegal Alien" protests here they were waving their own flag. Only after were they told that maybe it would make more sense to wave the flag of the country you want into. If they were, for the most part, learning the language, not getting into gangs, and not dropping out of school, I would totally be okay with them getting a mass amnesty.

    You can't keep making vague, blanket generalizations like this about what you believe certain groups of people tend to do. This is called racism.
     

    txteclipse

    The Last
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    In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

    I didn't even know it was that bad. Here's a link to the original page on CIS.

    The Center for Immigration Studies is an independent, non-partisan, non-profit research organization founded in 1985. It is the nation's only think tank devoted exclusively to research and policy analysis of the economic, social, demographic, fiscal, and other impacts of immigration on the United States.
     
  • 2,010
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    20
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    • Age 34
    • Seen Jun 2, 2014
    Yeah, you have a point, and y'know, 55% of crimes in the US are committed by African-Americans, so I think we should dump all the black people in the US on an island and let them just fight it out, y'know?
     

    txteclipse

    The Last
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    Don't you get it? Illegal immigrants aren't even supposed to be here. So when 95% of the murders in LA are committed by them, my tolerance level goes straight to zero. It means they've broken the law twice: once in coming here illegally, and again for the murder. That's not racism. That's indignation at people who break the law multiple times without repercussions, and at the people who turned a blind eye when they did it the first time. You had best learn the difference.
     
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