Never say never... except when describing NeverUsed! [NU Discussion] (PotF #2 posted)

[Ho-Oh]

Yeah like, SR and Hail... you need a lot of support to make Sturdy the "superior" ability, whereas Mold Breaker works right off the bat.

As for the Thick Fat comment, yeah it's a little irrelevant given Sawk won't be using Ice Punch against them. :( However really, unless you want to dedicate the whole team to supporting Sawk keeping Sturdy in-tact (meaning you'll need something with Rain Dance or Sunny Day, as well, to prevent ~hail~), and a reliable spinner then things to counter those other mons etc, while Mold Breaker can take out those that are setting up SR anyway (because yes, some people do leave them in lol) and allow your other Pokemon to ~shine~ such as Scarfed Rotom-F, Swellow, Articuno... etc. As well as this, it can also hit Eelektross, the Pokemon that can avoid being hurt by SE anything, and can abuse its Ground-type weakness. Seems p good to me, without needing four other slots dedicated to making Sturdy the "superior" ability. ;(

 

[shnen]

Firstly to Keiran777, you do realise cc does more to every single thick fat pokemon in the game (let alone NU) than ice punch / fire punch?

Anyway Probopass/Bastiodon/golem aren't going to be staying in on sawk now that it has mold breaker so meh, and weezing's use will decline even more so that's not particularly relevant either. Carracosta is legit but do people still use the bulky solid rock set and do they stay in on Sawk with it? If so that counts. It still doesn't do enough to Missy with eq anyway, and kills Haunter regardless.

for eel: 252Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk (+Atk) Close Combat vs 252HP/0Def Eelektross (Neutral): 101% - 118% (378 - 445 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

so yeah I can't see anything that justifies it being better than sturdy, although sturdy is admittedly not too useful either

both are equal I guess

 

[Ho-Oh]

Pokemon of the Fortnight (12/12/12 - 26/12/12)

So as mentioned earlier, there will be a Pokemon of the ________. We agreed on fortnight due to allowing enough time to fully get into a Pokemon. What does this mean, you ask? Well, you make teams using the Pokemon and discuss about its benefits, use different sets etc. Due to hail being allowed in NU, and the fact that Comm Day is changed around a little, Glaceon fits in well. This Pokemon will also be compulsory to be used in a special Comm Day tourney. You can read about that in the Comm Day thread. As for now, get discussing/experimenting!

(You can continue the Sawk discussion but feel free to discuss the PotF in here and get to know its benefits, etc).

 

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

I agree with shnen completely

Sawk's main jobs(IMO) is to either punch holes through the other team's core(band) or clean up weakened teams(scarf). Mold breaker could work on a band set as weezing is 2hko'd by earthquake(after rocks) and misdreavus is severely damaged by EQ also. Scarfed sets greatly appreciates sturdy, as it allows sawk to live a priority after defense drops. It requires a bit of team support, but scarfed sawk is one of the best late gamers. You don't really HAVE to have a counter to weezing or misdreavus, as strong hits and rocks will wear them down over time to a point where stone miss/close combat kos.
Sawk is really predictable regardless of ability, and most teams usually pack at least one solid counter to fighting types, so you must've been playing against some really bad players if your expert belt mold breaker sawk got two kills right off the bat, and even worse players if they stayed in with their probopass/bastiodon. 
But with hail back in NU, I guess sturdy sawk has lost some usefulness. Still, not all teams run Snover, and sturdy sawk is(again) one of the best late game cleaners.

 

[Jake♫]

I feel like the one thing that people don't expect (and as you wrote off as extremely rare on the OP) was setting hazards. Yes, from the very little experience I have full-on stall doesn't appear like it's going to work well in NU. However, laying down SR (duh) and Spikes as a way to reduce switching from the opponent, limit spamming Volt Switch/U-Turn, and just help net extra KOs is really underrated. Honestly, Cacturne is extremely cute useful for setting down hazards. Helps with pesky Psychic types via Sucker Punch, Water Absorb is extremely helpful (especially since Sand Veil is banned grrrr), and it's just rather strong in general.

Plus on top of that, the majority of NU spinners are extremely entry hazard weak themselves (re: Armaldo), and even that one turn is going to hurt them from switching in. Spin blocking is entirely possible too, so it's not like hazards are useless. Just my two cents though =x

 

[Ho-Oh]

Cacturne is also extremely frail and poison types are everywhere in NU, and even Amoonguss can OHKO it (iirc), so while it has all that, there's a lot of negatives and a lot of things that can easily beat it. There's also a lot of part-flying types, hail is around now so expect Blizzard spam, and even psychic types can sub then Signal Beam and Cacturne is like "ononokusu" (except it isn't in that tier but W/E).

I'd say the best hazard setter (w/ spikes at least, that is) is Garbodor due to its defenses, speed, access to tspikes and spikes and can do well against a lot of opponents.

 

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

There're no "best" entry hazard setter because it all depends on if it fits your team well. Offensively, I prefer cacturne and glalie. Yes, glalie. Glalie is a very underrated poke, and with access to explosion and blizzard as well as spikes, glalie is a very good "suicide" hazard setter that can also fire off some blizzards.

Defensively speaking, garbordor is the premier hazard setter, due to its decent defenses, access to a plethora of support moves(including spikes and t-spikes), and okay poison typing. Some other nfe spikers can also work, but they're mostly outclassed by Garbo.

An interesting aspect about hazards in NU is that almost nobody uses a spinner(cough ANGRY SNOWFLAKE cough) because all of them are terrible and have no recovery(outside of the "nerfed" rest). The most popular spinner, armaldo, is weak to Sr and is affected by spikes and tspikes. With a couple of good predictions and forcing it out, you won't need a spinblocker because most STAB attacks can ko it after two switch ins to sr.
So yeah, go hazards :]

 

[Ho-Oh]

I wanted to share that I tried to use Cacturne for a bit the other day. It let me down completely. ;( It dies after like one hit p much and it's not even a safe switch in to psychic types, unlike Skuntank which can usually take one or two Signal Beams (typing, but still!) Plus it can't even use Night Slash (iirc??) unlike Absol and has to rely on the opponents attacking. Honestly I don't really like it.

 

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

I wanted to share that I tried to use Cacturne for a bit the other day. It let me down completely. ;( It dies after like one hit p much and it's not even a safe switch in to psychic types, unlike Skuntank which can usually take one or two Signal Beams (typing, but still!) Plus it can't even use Night Slash (iirc??) unlike Absol and has to rely on the opponents attacking. Honestly I don't really like it.

lol. And that will be the entire message

Cacturne is a "high risk- high reward poke". Its offensive stats are unrivaled, but its bulk is ****. You need to predict and get it in on a double or get it in after something died. It can't take hits for crap(even against psychics), but if you do manage to get it in safely, and you are good at predicting, then IT WILL NOT LET YOU DOWN. You can also lead w/ it because it makes an excellent check to lead golems because of bullet seed. Treat it as something like Deoxys-Attack(except cacturne's bulk is not that terrible). It's meant to be an OFFENSIVE spiker, but if you want a DEFENSIVE spiker, use Garbordor

 

[Red_Star_Chris]

I personally don't call these Pokemon NU (Neverused). I think NOU (Not Often Used) suits them better. Don't you agree?

 

[Ho-Oh]

I personally don't call these Pokemon NU (Neverused). I think NOU (Not Often Used) suits them better. Don't you agree?

Not really, given that NeverUsed is what it's officially called according to Smogon :( It's true that your description is accurate but I'd much prefer calling it NeverUsed given that it's the official name. However, as this thread is for discussing stuff in the tier - how often do you play NU/what are your thoughts of it? :)

lol. And that will be the entire message

Cacturne is a "high risk- high reward poke". Its offensive stats are unrivaled, but its bulk is ****. You need to predict and get it in on a double or get it in after something died. It can't take hits for crap(even against psychics), but if you do manage to get it in safely, and you are good at predicting, then IT WILL NOT LET YOU DOWN. You can also lead w/ it because it makes an excellent check to lead golems because of bullet seed. Treat it as something like Deoxys-Attack(except cacturne's bulk is not that terrible). It's meant to be an OFFENSIVE spiker, but if you want a DEFENSIVE spiker, use Garbordor

lol good at predicting and bad player doesn't add up tho. ;( So no not always good. Also it can play offensively too and not just as a spiker!!

Also idts, it's obvious that it'd have something to take down Golem, like with Cinccino. I'd rather use Fraxure (which I have been using), with CB and Aqua Tail to take down Golem with Mold Breaker, defeat Probopass and Bastiodon w/ Superpower, so p good.

 

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

Yes cacturne can be a p good wallbreaker or even a sweeper, but shifty is a better sweeper because of nature power and better speed(I used to use shifty, it's so cool :]) Too bad cacturne didn't get leaf storm, if it did it would've been a good mixed attacker, simar to MIXMENCE. And yeah the NFE dragons are pretty underused, and cb fraxure is really cool, too bad it has bad bulk without Eviolite.

 

[Ho-Oh]

HELLO PEOPLE I HAVE TERRIBLE NEWS.

Amoonguss, Emboar, Snover, Cinccino and Absol are GONE. From NeverUsed, that is. WHAT WILL WE EVER DO? But ya, feel free to discuss how you think this will change EVERYTHING without them and if it affects you etc, I shall update the first post later okay??

Oh and I'll post POTF later, toooo.

 

[Tackle]

They're gone? That's terrible news. =(
My NeverUsed team without them... Oww...

But I might find some Pokémon instead of them.

 

[Ho-Oh]

Well the Smogon server isn't updated yet and my team is catered to what the new metagame will be, and because of that I'm glad Absol/Amoonguss are gone actually lmao. I miss Emboar but Amoonguss I'm okay with it being gone.

Also considering using four dark moves Skuntank idk. :( Considering MUSHARNA and all.

 

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

Good thing they're gone because I don't use any of them and they're annoying :]
YES YOU'RE FINALLY USING FOUR DARK MOVES SKUNTANK DO IT POISON JAB SUCKS. Oh, use spooky plate as well! Crunch 2hkos musharna after spooky plate and it doesn't 2hko with lefties :]

 

[Zeffy]

No woohoo Spooky Plate doesn't boost Dark-type moves what are you talking about. It's Dread plate fool! But yeah, Dread Plate > Black Sludge since Musharna's are idek. I'm actually indifferent about the Pokemon that moved up. I don't use them, they're pretty annoying at times, but really idc. My teams can handle them and I guess without Amoonguss we can only worry about the less-accurate Sleep Powder (which a lot of NU grass-types run iirc). NU gets Roselia and Stoutland, not quite sure about the latter but I guess TSpikes and Spikes will be more common now due to Roselia.

Also lmao Snover moved up.

 

[RandomTrainerWhoCould]

Stoutland? o.0
you can't be serious smogon, STOUTLAND MOVED TO NU? It used to be one of the best sand sweepers in OU ever since the mighty excadrill moved to ubers, and now it's NU.
*speechless*

 

[Ho-Oh]

At least people might try it out for a while. Roselia though will probably be used quite a bit tbh, hopefully not just to replace Amoonguss though. As for replacements, it's hard as far as fire-types are concerned. There's just not that much really "great" compared to Emboar, but imma use Camerupt again for a while given that Tangela, Roselia, Vileplume and Cacturne will "maybe" increase in usage, plus it can also use Earth Power on Skuntank too. :3

Nevertheless,

Pokemon of the fortnight #2: 5/1/13 - 19/1/13

This Pokemon is able to scare Ludicolo off, with a great STAB in Air Slash, and can recover with the expected Surf or Hydro Pump, while for Samurott it can take on the special sets while the physical sets can do very little back to it, given that it resists Megahorn! While those water types aren't going to be as big now with the coming psychic-domination, they're still things you should prepare for in your teams, and Mantine can be something that can fill that spot. Now due to that, discussion should be based around this Pokemon/success with it, flaws with it and so on for the next two weeks, while you may still discuss other things. Feel free to also try it out and battle with it, and fully get to know the benefits it can have in this metagame. Soooo, discuss!

 

[Miss Doronjo]

Mantine can be quite the special sponge beast - I mean, yeah, it's a great check to Ludicolo, and it has other properties too, like, special sweeper (I've seen one with choice specs w/ Hidden Power Fire or.. I think it was Flying, and it was AMAZING). Well, of course, it's typing can be tricky to work with - it's also a flying type, so you can't switch it in against rock users like Regirock, Golurk, Golem, or I dunno, Relicanth? So chalantly. Plus it's weak to SR, so, maybe you'd have to work it between switching it in water users. (but I'd watch out for toxic though, unless maybe it can utalize a rest/sleep talk moveset?).