Cerberus87

My friend at another site is like that. He's a huge fan of Star Trek and Doctor Who, and he could go on all day about the inner workings of those universes. As for me, that stuff mostly bores me. :P


The blonde girl is Yellow from Adventures. Fans of Adventures!Lance love to use her as their "Bella Swan."

The third link was supposed to be N/Hilda. I have NO idea how it went bad.


I'm more Team Robert Pattinson. I LOVE all of the not-so-nice things he's said about his horrible character and those horrible books and movies. {XD}


Just a rumor? {XD}

Yeah, the conservative, retrograde messages of Twilight are very obvious, which is why those books are all the more dangerous. Girls as young as 10 are picking them up and learning that Edward and Bella are the "ideal" relationship, which does have serious consequences for them in the real world. Unlike in fiction, your love won't save the "Bad Boy." -_-


Yeah, I've noticed that. I've always written off RBY Lance as having a bad day and thus, slightly OOC, but he definitely did show signs of maturing in GSC. (Probably more proof that he really was supposed to be a teenager in RBY, as there really is a world of difference between the maturity of a 17 year old and a 20 year old.)

Looking back, my headcanon of Lance quitting the League after Gen 2 to settle down with Lorelei actually fits pretty well with the games. Unlike two certain other Champions, Lance hasn't been seen or heard from outside of his introductory regions. He only appeared in Gens 3 and 4 because of remakes, and he was only in Gen 5 because of the PWT (which, at this point, probably isn't canon). He never saw him cameo in any other regions, nor did we hear of his whereabouts.

Since we never saw or heard of him again, he must've gone to GF's designated No Man's Land, the Sevii Islands. And, why would he go there? I'll give you one guess. And, when you have a man and a woman deeply in love, there will usually be children. Seeing as a certain Rocket Grunt from Gen 2 is shown having settled down and with a child in BW, as many as 10 years could have passed between Gens 2 and 5, more than enough time for Lance and Lorelei to become parents. And children take time, especially if you're the stay-at-home parent, like I write Lance. Plus, he still has his "scaly babies" to tend to, which also takes time. And, if he got into activist work like I write him, that's another chunk of his time being spent on something that isn't battling.

In short, Lance hasn't been seen or heard from outside of Gens 1 and 2 because his priorities changed. Perfect for me! :P


Well, even Lugia had gotten its main debut in a movie before we saw it in the anime. That's a big reason why Lugia's anime appearance worked; there was no need to introduce it to the audience and flesh out its backstory. The same should've been done with Groudon and Kyogre.


I'm not a fan. To much of it reads like someone's attempt at a dark!fic of the games and only comes off as "trying too hard." The fact that it completely butchered one of my favorite characters, along with many others, also doesn't do it any favors. Plus, I find its art style to be wretched, IMO.

Well, in folklore, iron is said to repel fairies, and what's the closest thing we have to a "Iron Type"? It could also represent science overpowering folklore, as most Steel types have man-made, technological origins.

As for Poison, well, fairies are traditionally connected to nature, which makes them vulnerable to pollution (also related to the technology/nature conflict).

The Fairy Type can also be seen as Pokémon's version of "good magic," hence its strengths against evil (Dark Type) and monsters (Dragon Type). Think of the good knight slaying the evil dragon...

I like the Fairy Type. It adds depth to the series, and does a good job of mixing things up... Just like Dark and Steel did. ;)


Yeah, it's obvious where Smogon's priorities lie, and it's not with the games. All they see is data to plug into a simulator and nothing more. :rolleyes2:


And, yet, none of that stopped HGSS from including Crystal-exclusive features.

My friend at another site came up with a good RB remake idea that included Yellow elements:


I also suggested using the Kanto starter events from Yellow to give you the Johto starters (holding their Mega stones), instead, as all Generation 2 Pokémon would be included in the Kanto Dex. You would, somehow, get the other two Kanto starters later in the postgame (thus, preserving the Yellow-based Final Battle team from GSC/HGSS).

Yeah, definitely. {:3} Even in my other (mostly TV) fandoms, my main focus is usually on character development and how characters are portrayed. Poor worldbuilding is annoying, but sloppy characterization outright enrages me. (Especially when I'm talking about shows that weren't particularly good at either... *cough*Charmed*cough*)


Oh, I wish I could be that lenient on those books, but then the feminist in me remembers all of the poisonous messages lurking between those pages...

And, don't think that this crap hasn't affected Pokémon fandom. The number one reason these three ships are so popular is because they're literally Pokémon-flavored versions of Twilight--the small, weak younger girl (usually a player character and thus, easy to self-insert into) who tries to win over the (usually older) anti-hero with her "love," even as he treats her and everyone else like dirt.

Horrifyingly, I remember one time reading a Lance/Misty fic (just out of curiosity), and the thing literally read like a Twilight fic that had Pokémon names subbed in. The author portrayed Lance as this cold, emotionless brooder and wrote entire paragraphs about how hard and ripped his body was. Meanwhile, Misty was this nervous, weak, wet mop of a character who was constantly getting herself into trouble and always needing to be saved. And, I must point out that these were supposed to be the ANIME versions of these characters, aka. this fiery redhead and this sweet, caring guy. Ugh... :rolleyes2:


I interpret him as being almost a child prodigy of a trainer, similar to Red. He looked very young in his original design (like 17-18 years old), making him possibly one of the youngest Elite Four members ever (contrasting nicely with Agatha, the oldest ever), and on top of that, he was the leader of the bunch!

I see him as having accomplished a lot by the time he was in his early 20s (almost to the point of him being robbed of a normal adolescence) and more than ready to settle down and take a break, as suggested by his post-battle GSC dialog:

"…It's over. But it's an odd feeling. I'm not angry that I lost. In fact, I feel happy. Happy that I witnessed the rise of a great new Champion!"


Well, I develop him more, even if I turn him into a bit of an asshole. :P He's a fun character, though.

Interesting hack, although I'm not too keen on the "hard" ones.


Yeah, it is. :rolleyes2: I'll admit though that the anime portrayed Lance much more accurately to the game version, personality-wise, than a certain other adaptation did (and his design was pretty cute, too), which makes it all the more of a shame that he wasn't handled better. What possessed the writers to stick him into Hoenn, and, why are they blaming that episode's failure on him?

C'mon, you have to remember what Dragonite's based on. {XD} No matter how much you try, you just can't keep her away from her cute, cuddly roots, why not embrace them to the fullest?

There's some cool fan ideas floating around. I love how they both take cues from Dragonair's design.


Oh, I haven't, either, but Smogon always has.

LOL at Blissey being outclassed by her pre-evo! {XD} This is why Eviolite was a bad idea.


Well, they could always give it to Yanmega like they gave it to Ampharos.


Two. HM. Slaves. That's how many I needed to get through Hoenn's Victory Road. That place is horrible.


They were so "accurate" that they didn't even acknowledge the "Y" of "RBY," let alone stuff from GSC and RS. At this point, I want them to just scrap FRLG and make new remakes. Give us a truly modern Gen 1. (Like how HGSS was a truly modern Gen 2.)


I know. That's another reason why I want a new Gen 1. :P

I have an eye for them, no? You don't get much cuter than the Alchemist of Arland protagonists either. xD

I headcanon her as being closeted. She's such a mean bully because she's constantly hiding her true self, and she has been bullied, herself, before for crushing on other girls. She resents Lance for getting all of the female attention *she* wants, including one of her biggest crushes (Lorelei).

Yes, I love inventing (vaguely soapy) backstories for characters. I fully admit it. :P (If I wrote the games' stories, you'd see a lot more of stuff like this and a lot less of the "save the world" stuff. My Lugia plot is only a taste of how I would handle characterization in my ideal Gen 1 remake.)


Unlike many others, I don't believe that feminism and romance are incompatible. I always portray Lance and Lorelei as a very equal relationship, if not even a little gender-flipped.

For example, I actually have Lance quitting his post as Champion after Gen 2 to move in with Lorelei and be a stay-at-home parent to both his dragons and their eventual children. He feels like he's already achieved enough as a trainer (ie. Leader of the Elite Four, Champion, Dragon Master, etc.), and despite his young age, he's already piled up more than enough money to comfortably retire. (He'd rather focus on activist work, anyways. The Red Gyarados ordeal showed him that there were more important things in life than battling.) Plus, he's way better at cooking and housework than Lorelei. :P

On the flip-side, Lorelei and Archer are portrayed as unhealthy because they were unequal. Archer had little respect for women, and it only worsened as he got involved with Team Rocket, a deeply sexist organization (hence Giovanni handing over the reigns to Archer, himself, instead of Ariana, his ex-wife and longer-time member). He expected Lorelei to be his dutiful, obedient little girlfriend, and got violent when she wouldn't. Him slapping her in the Lugia story was only the E-rated version of how he treated her.

(Of course, if this was all canon, watch dumb fans bash Lance for being a "goody-goody" and Leather Pants Archer into a Bad Boy Woobie who's only a little "misunderstood," because a certain shitty YA series has brainwashed an entire generation of young women into thinking that abuse is hot and romantic. I hate the world, sometimes. :rolleyes2:)


Which Brock did often, LOL.


It's like they spent so much time developing the new graphics and mechanics that they looked at the clock and said "Oh, bugger, we have to make a story for these games and we only have a couple of hours left!" They really didn't try, at all.


And, when we get female villains, it's often a certain very sexist trope. Because, you see, women can only be evil when they're "fallen." :rolleyes2:


Alas, the anime has never been a bastion of good writing, especially in its later years. I agree that Lance shouldn't have been in the Groudon vs Kyogre finale. He instead, should've appeared in the Battle Frontier season (which was meant to promote FRLG), along with the rest of the Gen 1 Elite Four. We also should've seen him later in DP (even just as a cameo) to promote HGSS.

And, he especially should've been seen, at least, once in BW. To me, the biggest piece of evidence that the anime wants to erase him from existence is the fact that they had an aspiring Dragon Master in the main cast for three whole seasons (who even had a Dragonite as her ace), and yet, he wasn't seen or even mentioned once. Even more insultingly, they had Iris look up to CYNTHIA as a role model instead of the actual Dragon Master Champion. They even took Iris all the way to Blackthorn City at one point, and again, Lance is completely MIA.

Someone really has it in for his character, and I blame that one horrible Hoenn episode.

They weren't even trying to hide it, were they? Luckily for Scizor, Gen 4 came to the rescue. (I think you'll love the example picture on the second link, LOL. {XD})


Milotic needs Fairy for better balance/parallelism with Gyarados. And, I want Lance to have his Dragon/Fairy Mega Dragonite... Now, his dragon can be truly "mythical." :P

Blissey can go screw herself. Serves her right for outclassing Clefable for so long.


GF seems to hate the idea of a Bug/Dragon. Flygon has the Dragon typing, but not the Bug, while Yanmega has the Bug typing, but not the Dragon. Hopefully, they both get Megas that rectify this.


Yeah caves can suck, but they're nowhere near as bad as water. Plus, Hoenn also happens to hold the title for worst cave in any Pokémon game. (Guess how many HM Slaves you need to get through this sucker?)


And, Golbats that mysteriously refuse to evolve. And, Easter Egg hunts with no rewards. Yippee! :rolleyes2:


Yeah, I like Clefable too much to wish that on her. Poor, Raichu. :(

True. However, Gallade, at least, has a Mega now, so that problem's kind of abated.


You're so greedy. {XD} If it makes you feel better, I usually write Karen as bisexual; Clair's the only one who's full lez.

(Don't worry, I feel the same way when I see Lance constantly getting paired with other guys.)


That's okay. I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a lot of things in shipping that piss me off, but I don't find anything wrong with shipping in and of itself.

The description of your OC sounds kind of familiar, LOL. {XD}


While XY were a huge step forward, mechanically, they were considerably less so, storywise. XY pretty much stick to the same story formula they've been using since RS (having only been shaken up slightly in Gen 5)--new region (not connected to any of the others), new Pokémon, new evil team (who wants to use the Box Legendary to take over the world), rivals are your BFFs, Champion is that one older person who "helps" you against evil team, and so on. XY's story comes off as painfully blah and unoriginal, and is only proof that GF needs to start mixing things up more.


I think there's some Victorian "woman on a pedestal" stuff at work, or the idea that women are inherently "pure" and "angelic" and exist solely to "save" men from their inherently "dark" ways. Even nowadays, this attitude is still very pervasive and keeps female villains out of a lot of things that, otherwise, have strong female characters (think of shows like Buffy and Charmed, for example).

It seems kind of "feminist" at first glance, but it's actually far from it, and if anything, only further reinforces harmful stereotypes and double standards.


Well, the Wallace haters must love ORAS, then, because the games have essentially erased Wallace's Champion position (at least, on this timeline) and put Steven (personality of a) Stone back on top.

Another character that Steven fans tend to unfairly bash is Lance. Many hate him for "stealing Steven's spot" and "ruining" a certain infamous anime episode, conveniently forgetting that the episode sucked because of bad writing, bad animation, and executive meddling, not a fictional character; the episode would've stunk just as bad with Steven as it did with Lance. (And, besides, why are they hating his game counterpart for an anime episode?)

Sad thing is that the backlash over the episode may have caused anime Lance to get tossed into the same scrap heap that Porygon and Kadabra currently reside in. That infamous episode was his last anime appearance to date, and he has never been seen or heard from since then, even when it actually would've made sense.

Meanwhile, Steven gets an entire anime special and a slew of ORAS-related marketing that Lance never got with either FRLG or HGSS. Yeah, I'd say Steven turned out pretty well. :rolleyes2:

Well, you do have to remember the Generation we were coming off of and its glorious selection of high-powered, uber-level Bug moves.[/sarcasm]

Compared to that, Fury Cutter was a big step up. Of course, there was another big step above it, but it was exclusive to your favorite Bug. Damn GF and their favoritism! {XD}


TrollFreak strikes again. Hopefully, they'll get Megas (well, just Dragonite and Milotic, because Blissey sucks) that will fix this.


Tell me about it. Flygon isn't even Bug/Dragon, so its typing makes no sense, whatsoever. And, GF seems hell bent on keeping Gyarados out of the Dragon club, if its Mega is anything to go by.


I know all too well. :rolleyes2: You WILL burn through some repels in Hoenn, which is just terrible design. And, to make it even worse, the games have an evil team who thinks that the region doesn't have ENOUGH water! It's like the games are rubbing it into your face.


Well, hey, they got their remakes, so why are they complaining? At least, Game Freak PUT enough effort into their remakes to include new postgame characters like that. Gen 1 fans aren't so lucky.


Watch them give Mega Pikachu the Mega Rayquaza treatment, so it doesn't need a Mega Stone to evolve. And, it'll gain the Electric/Fairy typing, of course. At that point, Raichu might as well cease to exist. :rolleyes2:

How so?


If canon interaction was a requirement for shipping, then you wouldn't be able to ship Karen with anybody. In fact, the list of possible ships, in general, would be very tiny and mostly limited to player characters and rivals (who are largely boring, IMO).

I don't think it's unrealistic that Karen and Clair would know each other. Karen's room is right next to that of Clair's own cousin, and you know that Clair probably visits him often.


Well, I have a thing for well-written romances and character interaction, in general. :P

I think I do recall plotting out a variation of it before HGSS, even giving a name (which I have since forgotten) to Archer's Gen 2 counterpart and setting it on Cinnabar Island and the Orange Islands (because I had only played the original RBY and didn't know about either FRLG or the Sevii Islands).


Alas, a lot of things were censored in the localizations. :rolleyes2:


If you ask me, I'm more than ready to see another Champion who's a rival, or even, the region's professor.

You're 100% right about Cynthia. I'm more than glad XY didn't bring her back again (although the same could not be said for Looker, sadly).


It's strange how after all these years, we have yet to see an evil team led by a woman. Having good female villains is just as important as having good female heroes, IMO.


Well, most of the Champions are meant to be heroic characters, admittedly. (Plus, Lance, Wallace, and Iris still get widely bashed by the fandom, whether it's for "cheating" or being "weak." Only Steven is worshiped as much as Cynthia, which I also have a problem with.)

Actually, Scizor did have one Bug attack, albeit not a great move.

I can see your point on that one. Movepools back then then were kind of limited. That's why I love playing ROM hacks that fix these issues. :)


But, it's a cute fairytale dragon, so why not? Dragon/Fairy was made for her! :P


Salamence is a deformed lizard with wings, not at all mythical, magical, or interesting. And, there's nothing "mythical" about dinosaurs, creatures that actually existed in nature. In fact, it wasn't until the most recent Gens that GF even started giving the type to dinosaur Pokémon (otherwise, Tropius probably would've been the long-awaited Grass/Dragon).


That's mean, LOL. ^_^


I agree. And, besides, remakes that copy/paste the originals tend to be shite. Hoenn fans should be lucky that they got a quality product.


Well, it's the mascot, what can you do? I prefer Raichu, myself, but I realize that GF (and the franchise, overall) pretty much wants to forget that it ever existed. They deny it the Light Ball, deliberately exclude it from marketing (even when Pichu's included), and give it ugly sprites that make it look like a fat bully. As what is probably the ultimate insult, they gave the newest Pikaclone Raichu's color scheme AND the Fairy typing it far more deserved. At this rate, we'll probably see Pikachu "magically" become the first mid-evolution to Mega Evolve. :rolleyes2:

It's still not something that should be a final E4 member's ace. Maybe, as a Gym Leader ace or even, a first or second E4 ace, but not a final E4 member. They need to have something larger and stronger.


Which is why he should've had Slowking as his ace, instead. (If I was going to let him exist, that is... >:))


I know. Her team is terrible. Could they have, at least, padded it with other types, like they did with the DP Elite Four?


I'm all for LGBT representation, but the real stuff, not fanservice crap (which isn't real representation to begin with). I like the idea of Karen/Clair, myself, but I treat them as a real, legitimate couple.


I like to play them as complimentary--Lorelei as the cold, rational scientist who mainly uses Pokémon based on real animals (with a few exceptions) and Lance as the warm, intuitive dreamer who mainly uses Pokémon based on fairytale/mythological creatures (hence the reason why Gyarados is a more suitable Pokémon for him than Garchomp, despite the typings). Lorelei is reclusive and has trouble expressing her feelings, while Lance is outgoing and wears his heart on his sleeve (aka. a total Drama King).

Lance is one of the only people Lorelei is willing to show her "softer side" to, and being around him "thaws" her out, making her feel warmer and more outgoing (her hypothetical Sevii Champion team would have more Water types to symbolize this). He respects Lorelei as a person, and isn't at all threatened by her strength; he doesn't get upset when he loses to her (which is often). This is meant to be contrasted with her ex-boyfriend, Archer, who was very abusive and a toxic influence on Lorelei emotionally, hardening her heart and making her even more of a recluse. Being with Lance heals the damage done by Archer.

In short, Lance is a Manic Pixie Dream Guy (but still far more developed than the more common female MPDGs are), the sweet, beautiful young man (I always write him as 2-3 years younger than Lorelei) who teaches the "broodingly soulful" Lorelei to "embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures." I hate this trope as it plays out "normally," yet love it when the genders are flipped. It also happens to fly in the face of another annoying trope (with Lorelei being the rational scientist and Lance being the emotional nature boy, running around with dragons in a cape).


I can take or leave Iris, myself, but she isn't any more or less characterized than Cynthia, nor is her team any more or less "original" than, say, Lance's. It just looks problematic as heck to praise the tall white blonde woman to high heavens for being the "Ultimate Female Role Model," while bashing and dismissing the young black girl for the same thing.

I have literally even seen people say that they wished Cynthia was the only female Champion ever so she would be "special." Like, what the hell, fandom. >_>


Tell me about it. No, GF, giving Brendan a slight tan does NOT make up for the removal of skin tone selection. (Especially, when he still looks white in the games.)

I'm not the biggest fan of Bruno, but I hate how much FRLG and HGSS whitewashed him from his original brown-skinned look. I was more than glad to see ORAS do the opposite to his friend, Brawly. Same goes for Team Aqua. And, yet, dumb fans STILL complained about their skin color being made darker, while not a peep was said about Bruno being bleached. :rolleyes2:


To me, the difference between a strong female character and a Strong Female Character (TM), is well, the difference between her and her. The latter was created specifically to be a Perfect Role Model who's flawless and the bestest at everything, and as a result, is an extremely boring, vapid shell of a character. The former, on the other hand, was created as a person, first, and thus, has flaws, insecurities, and even, weaknesses that make her interesting and well-rounded. (And, yet, guess which one fans are more likely to dismiss with the "B-word"? :rolleyes2:)

Well, I think Lick, itself, can be to blame for that. It was the only normal damage-dealing Ghost attack that existed at all in Gen 1, and since it was a contact move, the entire type was made Physical. When Dark was introduced a Generation later, it ended up having the exact same SE matchups as Ghost, so they made it a Special type to differentiate the two, despite all of Dark's attacks being contact moves. Thankfully, the P/S Split came and rectified this two Gens later.


Well, the Legendaries are obviously "mythical" (Dialga and Palkia even border on being gods), and they usually have the more interesting type combos (instead of the very plain Dragon, Dragon/Flying, and Dragon/Ground).

But, when it comes to non-Legendary Dragons, really only the Dratini line (who should've been retconned to Dragon/Fairy, IMO), Altaria (also should've been retconned; based on the Peng), and the Deino line (based on the Yamata no Orochi and Lernaean Hydra) seem genuinely "mythical." On the other hand, there's nothing "mythical" or "special" about generic brutes like Salamence, Garchomp, and Haxorus.


Oh, I know how you feel. I got sick of "HOENN CONFIRMED!" long before even XY came out. I couldn't help but laugh when those same people, just a year later, said ORAS "sucked" because it didn't have a Battle Frontier or wasn't a 3D copy/paste of the originals. :rolleyes2:


I see what you mean. I think Heracross was meant to take the place of a "Pinsir evolution," because as Scizor was to Scyther, Heracross was essentially a stronger, more upgraded version of Pinsir with a better typing. Thankfully, Pinsir got its Mega (along with Scizor and Heracross, a rare example of parallelism on GF's part), and that problem was rectified.


Ironic, since that unevolving Pikachu was the only way to get a Light Ball in GSC. Yeah, that's right, the thing always came with a Light Ball, yet, you couldn't use it (unless you uploaded your Yellow cart to Stadium 2 and used Pikachu there).

Well, to be fair to Janine, Poison doesn't have the greatest options to begin with (Gengar and Crobat were already taken). Plus, she's just a Gym Leader, not the final member of the Elite Four.

(And, how is Umbreon "very strong"? It has a good design, but its offenses are trash, and its defenses are only above average (especially taking its typing into account). Its movepool is also terribad, even by Eevee standards. It's not ace material, especially for an E4 member.)


And, surprise, they were the only other one whose entire group appeared in the anime.

Reading around the forums, a lot of people seem to love Unova's E4, but I think most of that's because A) they're recent and B) they're hard (which, to gameplay-focused people, is more important than characterization or anything like that).


Xatu just isn't a strong enough Pokémon to be an ace. Either Slowking or even, Espeon would've been better.

The Hoenn E4 sucked. Why did they reuse three of the same types from the Gen 1 E4 (along with Dark, which was in the Gen 2 E4)? You know, Grass, Poison, and Ground were available, right? They even put the Dragon guy at the top, just like Lance.

And, Glacia, in particular, takes the cake for unoriginality--Her team only has TWO evolutionary families (because that's all they bothered to put in the Hoenn Dex), and her design looks like a younger Agatha. They weren't even trying.


I can understand wanting to see your own sexual orientation being represented, but let's be honest, "teh yaoiz" isn't about that at all. Otherwise, you'd see just as much F/F, and female characters wouldn't be constantly getting ignored/bashed (or worse, turned into mindless yaoi cheerleaders). True LGBT representation does NOT come at the expense of female representation.

It's a shame that there isn't more Lance/Lorelei stuff out there (especially stuff that isn't based on their unlikeable Adventures counterparts). Just searching around, all I could find was this cute sketch, this great cosplay, and a Tumblr post complaining about how (surprise) nobody ships them. (Now, I feel like joining Tumblr.)

Sadly, it seems like people would rather ship Lance with underage characters or relatives (Because statutory rape and incest are sooooo hawt.) instead of a strong, beautiful woman who isn't related to him and is actually his own age.


Admittedly, I do want to see him get a minor cameo in the next Gen 1 remake, but only to confirm that he's, indeed, this man from the originals. Otherwise, he needs to take a LONG break. (I hope DP remakes give him the Juan treatment, LOL.)


Cynthia was very obviously designed to be a Strong Female Character (TM) and nothing more. They hype her up to be the bestest, most prettiest trainer ever (and the fandom eats it all up), while failing to give her any personality or characterization beyond "Strong Female Character (TM)."

And, way too many people (usually horny fanboys) claim their love for Cynthia to be the ultimate mark of feminism (even when they bash every other female Champion) and use her as a stick to beat even the slightest critiques of sexism in the games with (ie. "Why do you care so much about Kris and Leaf getting erased? Pokémon's not sexist, Cynthia exists!")

Cynthia is the ultimate Special Snowflake. That's not true female representation.


Oh, yeah. I just can't WAIT to see her stuffed into the postgames of Yellow, Crystal, and DP remakes. :rolleyes2:


True, but I like her insecurities and bad attitude. Those things make her an interesting character and not just a generic Role Model (TM); women are allowed to be flawed, after all. She's basically to Lance what Blue is to Red, and that's cool.


Her HGSS outfit is hideous, IMO. Yellow and white look terrible on her and don't suit a Dark specialist, anyways. She needs to be back in black.


Well, I was BIG into the Powerpuff Girls back then (Buttercup was my favorite), and I also loved Sabrina the Teenage Witch (up through Season 3, that is) and Bewitched (Seasons 1-5 only; wasn't as sexist as you'd think). There's a few others, but I can't think of them right now.


Because, FRLG were very lazily-made games. She might've gotten something better if the games had been made with the same care as HGSS and ORAS.


Oh, dear... *Goes off to read thread*

Way too many Dark types were trash before Gen 4 because the type was Special and most of them were built Physically. (One reason why a lot of us used a certain hellhound--it was one of the few Dark types that was Special-oriented.) Thank goodness for the P/S split!


Well, if dragons are "mythical," then where's my Dragon/Psychic, Dragon/Ghost, or Dragon/Fairy? (Legendaries and Megas don't count.) Or, even Dragon/Grass, Dragon/Electric, Dragon/Fire, or Dragon/Ice? (Again, Legendaries and Megas don't count.) Where are the beautiful, elegant, or at least, mysterious/unique dragons?

Dragon has always been a type I wanted to like but never could. After a strong start with Dragonite and Kingdra, the type eventually became overloaded with boring overpowered brutes (all either part-Flying or part-Ground, because originality sucks) and hideous Box Legendaries, all of which were designed to cater to meathead (Smogon) fanboys. Dragon was the original "fairy tale" type, and the later Gens ruined that.


And, in turn, the 3DS's sales lagged because of a lack of available games (most notably, Pokémon). The entire situation was poorly planned and executed.

And, as much as people complained about XY stealing the spotlight from B2W2, that's nothing compared to what BW did to HGSS. BW were announced before those of us outside of Japan even got HGSS, and we were already getting the first footage from the new games before our Pokéwalkers were barely broken in. HGSS had practically NO time in the sun! I think saving BW for a 2012 release would've helped that, as well.


Coincidentally, both single stages (well, the former was at the time). Hmmmm...


I can now see why you're not a fan of Yellow, LOL. :P

But, it's not a terribly strong or threatening Pokémon (like an ace should be). Of course, knowing her famous quote...


We don't know that, and he could've always moved. (He said he "traveled all around the world" in his pre-battle dialog.)


He's ugly, he's boring, and his Pokémon suck. (I wouldn't have been nearly as angry had it been Sabrina, instead.)

And, depending on what part of the fandom you're in, he stole Lorelei's man. (Seriously, why do more people ship Lance with this clown instead of this strong, beautiful woman? I'm not homophobic at all, but I'm beyond tired of strong female characters getting shoved aside for "teh yaoiz." Yeah, I just brought up shipping, I know. :P)


I agree 100%. At least, half of Cynthia's 5,080 appearances could've been given to other, more deserving characters. Same goes for Looker.

If you ask me, I don't want to see or hear from Cynthia again until DP remakes, and after that, I don't want to see her again until Gen 5 remakes. She needs to take a LONG break and let some E4 members (and even, certain other Champions) get the spotlight for a change.


Well, sticking to Pokémon, I also really liked Jessie back then. Sure, she was a villain, but she was also strong and had admirable qualities (especially once you learned her backstory). Plus, I thought her hair and outfit looked cool. :P

As for the games, Sabrina, Clair, and Karen were also cool. They were all strong women who used strong Pokémon, all while having some cool designs. (I hate what HGSS did to all of them, appearance-wise.) Sabrina was also pretty cool in the anime.


That's exactly why Lorelei's FRLG "send-off" left such a bad taste in my mouth. She was still a young woman (I put her around 25-28) with so much more to achieve in life. Why did she need to retire?

The next remake, IMO, should do something like my idea for Lorelei and give Lorelei's old "send-off" to Agatha (slightly modified, of course).


That's surprising. It's not a bad movie, at least for what it is. The Lugia/Legendary Birds story was good. Here's a summary of it.

Gee, I wonder why? ;)


It's a shame, too, because a Dragon Eeveelution could be something pretty unique for its type.

If you ask me, Dragon is too overloaded with generic "badasses" like Salamence and Garchomp and is very much being used as marketing fodder for meathead fanboys. I want to see more cute, elegant, or just, unique dragons like Dragonite, Kingdra, Altaria, and Flygon. Dragalge was a big step in the right direction (GF, please, give Lance one when he next appears instead of some stupid Garchomp.), and Hydreigon was, at least, unique (if, yet, another Pseudo). Goodra has a more unorthdox design, but its typing leaves A LOT to be desired (plus, it's another Pseudo).


Not all of whom can even "excel" there. (Hence, the existence of the "PU" tier--Note the irony of Kangaskhan being considered "PU" back then, knowing where she would be just a Generation later.)


Which was more of an issue with planning than anything else. If they had held back BW just a year or two, *it* could've been the first Gen on the 3DS.


The main reason Ash is stuck with so many unevolved Pokémon is because of marketing. Smaller, cuter Pokémon are usually more marketable (unless they grow up into Charizard).


Well, the case of Pikachu vs Raichu became especially valid starting with the 2nd Gen. Pikachu literally became stronger than its evolved form, which was obviously GF's intention (can't let the small, cute mascot be overshadowed, after all).

Well, multiple trainers are allowed to have the same aces. (See Agatha and Morty.) However, like I said earlier, Karen's ace needed to be Tyranitar, IMO.


Well, we can't do that if Lance remains in the E4 (where I prefer him). ;)

As for Saffron Gym, they can put the Psychic Clown there. He's much better-suited as a Gym Leader than an E4 member, anyways.


Elite Four members get a raw deal. Out of the 23 total E4 members, only 12 (just over half) have appeared on the anime: Lorelei, Bruno, Agatha, Lance, Koga (appeared as a Gym Leader), Drake, Aaron, Bertha, Flint, Lucian, Caitlin, and Siebold. Only two groups--Gen 1 Indigo and Sinnoh--have had all of their members appear, and it's unknown if one of them, Gen 2 Indigo, even exists in the anime (we never saw or heard of Koga getting promoted, and neither Karen or the Clown were ever referenced, let alone seen).

As far as the games go, here are the E4 members who have appeared in more than just their introductory Generation: Bruno, Lance, Koga, and Caitlin. Yup, just four. And, only one, Bruno, was an E4 member in all of his appearances.

And, here are the E4 members who have been seen outside of their rooms: Lorelei, Lance, Koga, Flint, Caitlin, and Malva. Not a whole lot better. And, only Lorelei, Flint, Caitlin, and Malva actually appeared as E4 members.

Very pitiful track record, isn't it? Why does GF even bother to go through the trouble of creating new E4 members if they're not going to get hardly any more characterization than that Youngster on the first Route? :rolleyes2:


Thanks. :) I really should turn this into a fanfic. If I had the know-how, I'd make a hack based on it.

The way Lorelei was "written out" in FRLG always left a bad taste in my mouth. Getting sent off to some tiny island to do nothing but fight a bunch of worthless Rocket Grunts for the rest of her life? No way! She deserved better than that, to actually find happiness and achieve something greater.

She may not have gotten much in the games (although the anime served as a decent "supplement" at the time, I admit), but she was still one of many strong role models I had growing up, so I'm not going to let go of her. (Newer characters like Cynthia may have gotten more, but I didn't grow up with them, so they mean little to me.) It saddens me that the fandom has shoved Lorelei aside so much that they would rather develop some random Youngster (Oooh, wow, your Rattata is cool and you like shorts. What deep characterization! :rolleyes2:) than her, or even worse, "acknowledge" her by reducing her to a sex object (as almost everything written about her on TV Tropes does).


That was the idea. I've always wanted to see a Lugia event inspired by Pokémon 2000 in the games.

My favorite types are Water, Psychic, Ghost, and Dark. (Although, there are individual Pokémon of other types that I like, such as Persian and Dragonite.)


Which is why the chances of us getting one now seem slimmer than ever. If a Dragon Eeveelution was a possibilty, it would've already happened a long time ago.


Even worse is that Ice types, in general, tend to have crap movepools (alas, Lapras is the exception to the rule). But, I think Glaceon would work with just Electric moves; there is a precedence for mono-Ice types getting Thunderbolt.


Which is one reason why I wish Karen had one as her ace. Like Lance in RBY, she was the final E4 member, so she deserved to have a Pseudo on her team.


The problem is that not all tiers are created equal. For better or worse, OU is what most people play and care about. For something to be "viable in NU" doesn't mean a whole lot because very few people play that tier (or even want to). And, even with the lower tiers, people still just use whatever's dominant there, so there's no diversity or originality no matter where you look.


That's what I wished Gen 6 had done, to be honest. Of course, when I said that at another site, people whined and moaned about "losing their shinies" and other nonsense. :rolleyes2:


Of course, May was also a Player Character. Now, Wally (a pseudo-rival of sorts), on the other hand...

While Paul was supposed to be a villain, he ended up being loved by both the writers and the fanbase, anyways. And, part of the reason WAS because many of the viewers treated their Pokémon the same way he did and didn't see anything wrong with it. :rolleyes2:

I would've liked to have seen Silver as well. He did get a brief cameo in the Japanese opening of the Legend of Thunder special, but that's about it. Ironically, many people consider the purple-haired Smogon Drone mentioned above to be his "anime counterpart," as they have similar personalities and (sort-of) designs; Paul's even posed the exact same way in his official art as Silver was in an unused mockup design for the anime.


Well considering the circumstances of the time (the need to pad space between Kanto and Johto, qualms over Brock's skin color, etc), it wouldn't surprise me if Tracey was just tossed into the show at the last minute without hardly any time taken to develop him or give him a backstory. It's a shame, too, because he had a lot of potential. :(

I'll go check out that Misty thread.

Her ace was also Houndoom in HGSS. It was only Umbreon in the rematch. Houndoom is a cool Pokémon.


Hence, the reason why I called anything below L60 "underleveled." Unless you were really lucky, you were not going to get past Lorelei with L50s, and if you couldn't beat her, then there was no way you were going to beat Blue. She was the ultimate Wake-Up Call Boss.


I agree. I would've much rather seen Sabrina instead of either Koga or the Clown; she was one of the toughest opponents in RBY, so she more than deserved the promotion. The Gen 2 Elite Four should've looked more like this, IMO:

- Karen
- Sabrina
- Lorelei
- Lance
- Either Red or Silver as Champion


The Pryce excuse doesn't hold water when Morty, Chuck, and Clair also existed. In fact, all of the types (except Dark) would've been redundant with a Gym Leader in GSC, because Kanto and Johto, combined, covered 16 of the 17.

The really sad part about all of this is that neither Agatha or (especially) Lorelei will probably ever appear in the games again unless Gen 1 gets another remake. If GF was willing to put them in anything else, it would've already happened by now. (But, nooooo, we must see Cynthia again for the 5,871st time, instead. :rolleyes2:)

BTW, did you read my Lorelei postgame story outline by any chance? (It's intended for a Gen 1 remake, mind you.) What did you think of it?