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6th Gen The Pokemon Z Problem

9
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7
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  • Age 22
  • Seen Jun 4, 2017
To be honest, we needed Pokemon Z more than we needed Sun and Moon. I'm not trying to diss the seventh generation, in fact, I thought that the game was a breath of fresh air, but X/Y was so disappointing that I feel like sixth gen was left in the dust. About 10% of what I wanted for the game was new Zygarde forms. The other 90% was me wanting a decent version of Kalos. I don't think we can do anything about it, but I do want to share my opinion about it.
 

HeroLinik

To this day, he still can't beat Air Man...
923
Posts
6
Years
That doesn't go without mentioning how many mysteries went unsolved with Kalos, as well as how much potential went to waste. For example, what was the point of the ghost girl? What is behind the Power Plant doors? What is the point of the Chamber of Emptiness? What is the Lava Dome Pokemon underneath Jaune Plaza? The thing is here they simply shoehorned Zygarde into Sun and Moon just to make it "relevant" yet all it became was a bland, tedious collection sidequest not unlike the Gold Skulltulas in Ocarina of Time, especially considering it was just...there, without any backstory or even Xerneas and Yveltal.

If anything, they should have held off on Zygarde in S/M, and then release a third instalment that features Kalos and the backstory of Zygarde, and its relationship with Xerneas and Yveltal, as well as hopefully tying up any loose ends with Kalos.
 
9
Posts
7
Years
  • Age 22
  • Seen Jun 4, 2017
Completely agree with you. Zygarde had so much potential as a legendary, and for the lore of the series. And Kalos had so much potential as well. I wouldn't have mind if they took a Black 2/White 2 approach on it too. In fact, I feel like it may have been better if they took that approach if they took any approach at all.
 

pkmin3033

Guest
0
Posts
We didn't need Pokemon Z, specifically. What we needed was proper closure of the story - and I use that term very loosely, because this is Pokemon we're talking about here - that the games had with Mega Evolution etc., which they attempted to provide with the Delta Episode in ORAS. It wasn't perfect, by any means. But it was an attempt. There was at least an acknowledgement there that things were left unfinished, and some effort to tidy them up. What we really needed was for the Delta Episode to be better.

But I am going to stubbornly insist that we did not need to tread through Kalos a second time just to have the same plot told to us yet again only with Zygarde as the cover star this time. Which is exactly what Z would have been. Third versions typically DO provide more content than the base versions, I will agree - Emerald was better than Ruby and Sapphire (and ORAS, for that matter) and Platinum was better than Diamond and Pearl - but given the timing of the games and the fact that these were the first games on the 3DS and were built completely differently, Gen VI was only ever going to be a stopgap generation. That was only made even more apparent when Sun and Moon were released.

I mean, look at the difference visually, between Sun and Moon, and X and Y. It's clear which one of them had more effort put into it - XY look and feel like a trial run, and it would have taken a lot more than a third version to change that. Creating Pokemon Z with SM visuals would have likely required making Kalos again from the ground up, and would have begged the question of why the hell they didn't do that in the first place...and it really wouldn't have been worth it for a little extra content, would it? Kalos was rushed, plain and simple.

Kalos was an under-developed, largely unexplored region. But the flaw was in the design of the region itself, not from the lack of a more complete third version, which would have had the same flaws, just with a different Legendary on the front cover and a little extra content. In a series as similar as Pokemon, these little things often make all the difference, but in this case I don't think it would have, especially looking at Sun and Moon.

I didn't like Gen VII at all, but even I can see more effort was put into designing Alola than Kalos. I wouldn't say Sun and Moon need a third version, and they're in exactly the same place as XY are right now, only because more effort has been put into it, they're generally regarded as more satisfactory titles. Given the huge list of flaws with XY, it would take more than a third version to salvage Kalos as a region. What we needed was for XY to be better as they were. What we needed was for XY to have Sun and Moon's visuals, have more effort put into making them a more complete experience, or for a greater sense of closure provided with the Delta Episode in ORAS, which could have tied into XY more than they did.

Gen VI was just a mess. Wishing for more wouldn't have changed that, in my opinion.
 

Mimikyu402

Flareon Master
471
Posts
15
Years
xy was fine as they were you have to think they had to make a 3d model for each and every one of the 720 pokemon so ofcourse it took lots in the making of the game dont understand why sme people bash xy when they are the second best selling games in the series, also the sun and moon games had the graphcs pushed to the limit thats why they look beter and had to remove things like hordes to fit evrything thy wanted to add
 
9
Posts
7
Years
  • Age 22
  • Seen Jun 4, 2017
What X/Y did for the series visually isn't really what we are talking about. The wasted potential of the games and what a sister/sequel game what have done is the problem here. Cons of X/Y were the evil team, the postgame, the lore of Zygarde, and what the sixth generation could have been, is the problem we are having. If X/Y is your favorite game, thats fine, I'm just going to respectfully disagree with you.
 
4,044
Posts
9
Years
As much as I agree with you, I feel like Game Freak made a decision on creating Sun and Moon pretty early on and had not thought to make a Z version for very long, if at all. So, imo, they should have done a lot more to flesh out Kalos and the story of Pokemon X and Y. The games did loads to move the series forward but I believe that instead of just leaving us with loads of mysteries, GF should have given us answers in conclusions in XY, which would compensate for the lack of a third version/sequel.
 
1,904
Posts
10
Years
  • Age 45
  • Seen Oct 9, 2017
I think X and Y got the short end of the stick, because it was out, for what, a year and then suddenly comes ORAS and for the next TWO years all the competitions and online focus was just ORAS only, even the online presence seemed to focus pretty heavily on the Hoenn starters rather than the Kalos ones. I think the Z crystals, new Zygarde forms, etc, were a pretty big tip off than the ideas that were going to be for Pokemon Z were simply merged into a new gen rather than 1 year X/y, next year ORas, third year Z, fourth year (now) Sun and Moon
 

jombii

[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][SIZE=4][COLOR=#00b05
3,416
Posts
9
Years
There?s a lot of unanswered questions with x and y and, while sun and moon is an awesome game, it doesn?t necessarily answer those questions. Generation VI felt very rushed as if the creators only wanted to spit out games for money. While a third game for the Generation seemed impossible now, a spin-off tying all those loose ends (a Ranger game maybe) can be good in my mind.
 

Alexander18

Banned
1,393
Posts
6
Years
  • Age 32
  • NZ
  • Seen Dec 29, 2017
Gen 6 games were excellent. We didn't get Z since we can get all non event pokemon between XY and ORAS. No point having a Z when the others had all non event pokemon. I am fine with Zygarde being in SM.
 

SleepyTrainer

Rage Valley
231
Posts
8
Years
  • Age 25
  • Seen Jul 3, 2018
That doesn't go without mentioning how many mysteries went unsolved with Kalos, as well as how much potential went to waste. For example, what was the point of the ghost girl? What is behind the Power Plant doors? What is the point of the Chamber of Emptiness? What is the Lava Dome Pokemon underneath Jaune Plaza? The thing is here they simply shoehorned Zygarde into Sun and Moon just to make it "relevant" yet all it became was a bland, tedious collection sidequest not unlike the Gold Skulltulas in Ocarina of Time, especially considering it was just...there, without any backstory or even Xerneas and Yveltal.

If anything, they should have held off on Zygarde in S/M, and then release a third instalment that features Kalos and the backstory of Zygarde, and its relationship with Xerneas and Yveltal, as well as hopefully tying up any loose ends with Kalos.

The ghost girl was an easter egg and a refernce to future games (S/M), The Lava Dome myth could have been there to trick the player into thinking that they are on about Heatran, but it was a indirect reference to Volcanion. Of course it's not a lava dome pokemon, but it is a fire type legendary, and the two woman probably just show off how wrong rumors can go.
... other than that I dunno, can't remember the chamber of emptiness. Also the note of the back side of a signpost is odd, "I'll get help, wait in the usual place." There IS a boy that asks "Is this the place?" but it all can be discovered way early of the Looker quest, might be just a mere reference too I guess. Can't remember anymore if the boy was involved.
 
303
Posts
8
Years
  • Age 25
  • Seen Nov 1, 2023
We didn't need Pokemon Z, specifically. What we needed was proper closure of the story - and I use that term very loosely, because this is Pokemon we're talking about here - that the games had with Mega Evolution etc., which they attempted to provide with the Delta Episode in ORAS. It wasn't perfect, by any means. But it was an attempt. There was at least an acknowledgement there that things were left unfinished, and some effort to tidy them up. What we really needed was for the Delta Episode to be better.

But I am going to stubbornly insist that we did not need to tread through Kalos a second time just to have the same plot told to us yet again only with Zygarde as the cover star this time. Which is exactly what Z would have been. Third versions typically DO provide more content than the base versions, I will agree - Emerald was better than Ruby and Sapphire (and ORAS, for that matter) and Platinum was better than Diamond and Pearl - but given the timing of the games and the fact that these were the first games on the 3DS and were built completely differently, Gen VI was only ever going to be a stopgap generation. That was only made even more apparent when Sun and Moon were released.

I mean, look at the difference visually, between Sun and Moon, and X and Y. It's clear which one of them had more effort put into it - XY look and feel like a trial run, and it would have taken a lot more than a third version to change that. Creating Pokemon Z with SM visuals would have likely required making Kalos again from the ground up, and would have begged the question of why the hell they didn't do that in the first place...and it really wouldn't have been worth it for a little extra content, would it? Kalos was rushed, plain and simple.

Kalos was an under-developed, largely unexplored region. But the flaw was in the design of the region itself, not from the lack of a more complete third version, which would have had the same flaws, just with a different Legendary on the front cover and a little extra content. In a series as similar as Pokemon, these little things often make all the difference, but in this case I don't think it would have, especially looking at Sun and Moon.

I didn't like Gen VII at all, but even I can see more effort was put into designing Alola than Kalos. I wouldn't say Sun and Moon need a third version, and they're in exactly the same place as XY are right now, only because more effort has been put into it, they're generally regarded as more satisfactory titles. Given the huge list of flaws with XY, it would take more than a third version to salvage Kalos as a region. What we needed was for XY to be better as they were. What we needed was for XY to have Sun and Moon's visuals, have more effort put into making them a more complete experience, or for a greater sense of closure provided with the Delta Episode in ORAS, which could have tied into XY more than they did.

Gen VI was just a mess. Wishing for more wouldn't have changed that, in my opinion.

<<<<ALL OF THIS. I thought I was the only person to think we didn't need a Pokemon Z. The awful truth is that even if Pokemon Z did happen we probably won't be getting the answers we wanted. It's clearly obvious that Gamefreak rushed out XY for the 3ds and barely put any thought to the game other than the aesthetic, Pokemon, and system mechanics. As a result, the story took a huge dump that in my mind will forever stain this generation specifically. ORAS is a significant step up, but it's not enough to save gen VI. It really isn't.

I feel that even if Zygarde did get what it deserved, it's obvious that it wouldn't be anything that people would be looking for.
 

Alexander18

Banned
1,393
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6
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  • Age 32
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  • Seen Dec 29, 2017
Disagree. XY games were fine games with good story, mechanics, etc. Z could of happen but that be reverting back to an old formula. GF decided not to do so.
 

Nah

15,941
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10
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  • Age 31
  • Seen today
Disagree. XY games were fine games with good story
XY most certainly did not have a great story. It could have had one, but Game Freak didn't deliver on that front. If you want an in-depth explanation, here: https://daily.pokecommunity.com/2017/02/01/conflicting-egos/

Really XY was the same thing that we've been getting with basically every first pair of a generation since 2003: a barebones experience with a lacking storyline that just rides on the Pokemon name rather than Game Freak trying to go beyond what's par for the course.

A "Pokemon Z" would've been nice as a chance to do Kalos justice, though admittedly I don't really think that if Game Freak did make a Z that they would've done things truly right that time either.
 

Alexander18

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  • Age 32
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XY most certainly did not have a great story. It could have had one, but Game Freak didn't deliver on that front. If you want an in-depth explanation, here: https://daily.pokecommunity.com/2017/02/01/conflicting-egos/

Really XY was the same thing that we've been getting with basically every first pair of a generation since 2003: a barebones experience with a lacking storyline that just rides on the Pokemon name rather than Game Freak trying to go beyond what's par for the course.

A "Pokemon Z" would've been nice as a chance to do Kalos justice, though admittedly I don't really think that if Game Freak did make a Z that they would've done things truly right that time either.

No. XY had a great story. That is it. We didn't need z since the other four games had all non event pokemon. I know what i am talking when it comes to pokemon games. Don't argue with me.
 
13
Posts
6
Years
That doesn't go without mentioning how many mysteries went unsolved with Kalos, as well as how much potential went to waste. For example, what was the point of the ghost girl? What is behind the Power Plant doors? What is the point of the Chamber of Emptiness? What is the Lava Dome Pokemon underneath Jaune Plaza? The thing is here they simply shoehorned Zygarde into Sun and Moon just to make it "relevant" yet all it became was a bland, tedious collection sidequest not unlike the Gold Skulltulas in Ocarina of Time, especially considering it was just...there, without any backstory or even Xerneas and Yveltal.

If anything, they should have held off on Zygarde in S/M, and then release a third instalment that features Kalos and the backstory of Zygarde, and its relationship with Xerneas and Yveltal, as well as hopefully tying up any loose ends with Kalos.

Actually, the Lava Dome Pokemon in Jaune Plaza is just a mistranslation, apparently. Apparently one woman was imitating Heatran and the other woman said something along the lines of, "It sounds like there's a lava dome pokemon in Jaune Plaza".
 

Nah

15,941
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10
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  • Age 31
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No. XY had a great story. That is it. We didn't need z since the other four games had all non event pokemon. I know what i am talking when it comes to pokemon games. Don't argue with me.
Why is XY's story great though?
 

Alexander18

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Why is XY's story great though?

Because it is well made, a good plot and decent for main series games. Far better than kanto who has a boring story especially without a legendary involved.

I don't need to justify why XY story is great anyway. It just is. I love it so that is all that matters.
 

Nah

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Because it is well made, a good plot and decent for main series games. Far better than kanto who has a boring story especially without a legendary involved.

I don't need to justify why XY story is great anyway. It just is. I love it so that is all that matters.
Mate, repeating what you said previously is not really an explanation
 

Alexander18

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Mate, repeating what you said previously is not really an explanation
I did not repeat. What i am saying is an explanation. Accept it or stop replying. We didn't need a Z because GF didn't felt the need for one.
 
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