I'm sorry that you had the killer spoiled for you. But I do wonder, if that hadn't happened, would you have been able to guess who it was ahead of time anyway? A 'Whodoneit?' does sound like it could make for an interesting Persona story, I'm just not sure if it would be all that compelling for me after watching the story themed on death and letting go. Like 3 was their magnum opus, and 4 was a bit of a shark jump for me. Maybe I'd feel differently if I'd been the one to play both, or if there wasn't so much side content and spinoff stuff linking the two games together. (jumping ahead a bit) I am certain that something in the promotional material for one of the games (don't remember if it was 4 or one of the side games) mentioned that both of the games happen pretty much at the same time. I'm rather upset by that bit of false advertising, because I may have had more interest in 4 when I was younger if I hadn't read that, though then again, I was a much different person back in those days, so I don't really know how big a difference it would have really made. I remember them being fused together in pretty much every side game that came out at the time, in some way at least, but even if that wasn't the case, it's much too late to make a difference now lol.
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Alex_Among_Foxes
Alex_Among_Foxes
That was something I never knew about! I had always thought that all the games had the same Personas for the most part, with maybe a few exceptions or something. It's really cool that they're all different in origin like that! So how do the starting Personas and MC Persona work in 4 then? Because it seems odd to me that any starting team members would already have 'solved their problems' to get their Personas. I knew that 5 did something different with it, but I don't think I knew to how great of an extent it's changes to the Personas were.
I don't see them as special to me simply because they are just Paradox Pokemon. And that's because I also don't really see Paradox mons as special in the first place. I mean, they're literally just basic Pokemon 'but from the past/future', not the same as a 'one of a kind' Legendary like the odd sealed away Pokemon from SV (which are also rather forgettable to me honestly).
I don't see them as special to me simply because they are just Paradox Pokemon. And that's because I also don't really see Paradox mons as special in the first place. I mean, they're literally just basic Pokemon 'but from the past/future', not the same as a 'one of a kind' Legendary like the odd sealed away Pokemon from SV (which are also rather forgettable to me honestly).
Alex_Among_Foxes
Even though I haven't seen it yet, I'm in total agreement with you on that. Not every show in the series needs a sad or bittersweet ending to it, if anything, that would just cheapen the really good endings that are that way. Having a mix is better.
Cool, I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of it!
I haven't taken the time to sit and listen to a comparison of each character's old vs new VA to say for sure, but I honestly feel like I'm going to always side with the original due to a very rare case of admitted nostalgia. Though I'm glad that you enjoyed the new performances!
Cool, I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of it!
I haven't taken the time to sit and listen to a comparison of each character's old vs new VA to say for sure, but I honestly feel like I'm going to always side with the original due to a very rare case of admitted nostalgia. Though I'm glad that you enjoyed the new performances!
Setsuna
I'm honestly unsure if I'd have figured it out on my own. I think I was just blind some of the hints towards their identity that I only picked up when I started thinking more about it. P4's story definitely isn't as dense or complicated as P3's but I appreciate that each game feels different. I'm not too familiar but I can't think of why or what that'd be advertising, since I know the two games are basically completely disconnected in terms of story or characters.
A lot of the time the party's Personas are connected to some aspect of their personality, so each party member has something different and they're all tied together with some sort of theme like their mythology. In P4 you'll usually have a story arc about a certain party member overcoming their problems, and then get their Persona at the end when you've become familiar with them, and then they join the party.
A lot of the time the party's Personas are connected to some aspect of their personality, so each party member has something different and they're all tied together with some sort of theme like their mythology. In P4 you'll usually have a story arc about a certain party member overcoming their problems, and then get their Persona at the end when you've become familiar with them, and then they join the party.
Setsuna
For some of the starting members, their story arcs are shorter and closer together to fill up your party faster, and I'd consider everything up to the 4th party member to sort of feel like one big story chapter. The MC is given his Persona pretty much for free at the start of the game, but it's explained why and how it all happens later. The way P5 does it is pretty similar to P4, but the MC's starting Persona is more tied into the current arc and the moments when new party members awaken their Persona are given a lot more emphasis, you usually get a battle designed to show off what makes them special as they awaken. Those moments are arguably what got me into Persona as a series.
Yeah it's hard to see Paradox Pokemon as something along the lines of legendaries, as you can kinda just stumble across them as normal wild Pokemon in Area Zero as you go through it. I like the extra bit of lore associated with them but can't consider them something all that special.
Yeah it's hard to see Paradox Pokemon as something along the lines of legendaries, as you can kinda just stumble across them as normal wild Pokemon in Area Zero as you go through it. I like the extra bit of lore associated with them but can't consider them something all that special.
Alex_Among_Foxes
That's a good way to see it, sort of like how the different groups in LL are different. I don't remember anymore, all I know is that it tainted any small interest I would have even had in 4 at the time. But learning that they aren't actually connected at all has helped that a bit. I can't promise I'll play it, but when I get around to playing 3-fes and 5, I'll maybe give 4 a second look.
I knew that was the case in 3, but it's cool that they try to keep that theme going for the rest of the series.
That sounds really neat, but it also concerns me that each character will feel very 'hello!-goodbye!' in regards to their place in the story. Like, what purpose do they serve after they get through their arc beyond different battle abilities for the player?
And that's kinda what I mean, what more can they add to the story, and what character growth can you really see from someone who's already accepted themself so early?
Maybe the game does a great job of it, but it makes me nervous none the less.
That makes sense from a 'player's gotta play' point of view, and I also like it from a 'don't tell me who my character is' point of view as well. I honestly prefer that to the game making something up for them.
Glad it's sort of the same for the P5 protag for previously stated reasons lol. Not sure how I feel about the gimmick (tutorial?) battles though. But I guess I'd have to properly experience them to be able to fairly say.
That's exactly how I feel about them as well lol.
I knew that was the case in 3, but it's cool that they try to keep that theme going for the rest of the series.
That sounds really neat, but it also concerns me that each character will feel very 'hello!-goodbye!' in regards to their place in the story. Like, what purpose do they serve after they get through their arc beyond different battle abilities for the player?
And that's kinda what I mean, what more can they add to the story, and what character growth can you really see from someone who's already accepted themself so early?
Maybe the game does a great job of it, but it makes me nervous none the less.
That makes sense from a 'player's gotta play' point of view, and I also like it from a 'don't tell me who my character is' point of view as well. I honestly prefer that to the game making something up for them.
Glad it's sort of the same for the P5 protag for previously stated reasons lol. Not sure how I feel about the gimmick (tutorial?) battles though. But I guess I'd have to properly experience them to be able to fairly say.
That's exactly how I feel about them as well lol.
Setsuna
Comparing it to the different LL groups is a good way to see it, I think. I'm not trying to force you to play it or anything of course, I just don't think you should close yourself off from the idea of it. I think playing 5 after 3 is perfectly fine and I do think gameplay-wise P5 is easily the best.
At the very least there are the social links to interact with them more if you take an interest to what you see in their story arcs. I can't say I ever had too much of a problem with them not having more development afterwards, because I felt they all had a good amount of time devoted to them.
Persona is just one of those series that have a long, slow start so giving you your protagonist and their starting Persona quickly helps with that. I wouldn't really consider those battles to be gimmicks or tutorials, just playable examples of what makes that character useful. Like when you get your character with Ice skills, you'll fight enemies weak to Ice and be able to look over their skills. There was never an instance where they didn't feel really cool and exciting for me.
At the very least there are the social links to interact with them more if you take an interest to what you see in their story arcs. I can't say I ever had too much of a problem with them not having more development afterwards, because I felt they all had a good amount of time devoted to them.
Persona is just one of those series that have a long, slow start so giving you your protagonist and their starting Persona quickly helps with that. I wouldn't really consider those battles to be gimmicks or tutorials, just playable examples of what makes that character useful. Like when you get your character with Ice skills, you'll fight enemies weak to Ice and be able to look over their skills. There was never an instance where they didn't feel really cool and exciting for me.
Alex_Among_Foxes
(Damn I'm late to respond... 0_0 Er, sorry about that! 😅)
I get what you mean, and knowing it's its own thing helps out with that a lot... I'll look into it again after 3 and see if it catches my interest now that I'm older. ^^
What about 5's gameplay makes it the best to you? (in the event you haven't said already lol) Actually, which Persona game do you think is the best overall? I'm curious...
I don't remember that aspect of 3 well enough to compare them to say if I'd feel that way as well honestly, but I'll trust your judgement on that.
That would be something I'd need to play for myself to properly get an idea of it, because it sounds from the description like a tutorial fight, but it's probably done much better in the moment. *Shrugs* I'm glad you had a good time with them regardless of whatever the hell I might think though! ^^
I get what you mean, and knowing it's its own thing helps out with that a lot... I'll look into it again after 3 and see if it catches my interest now that I'm older. ^^
What about 5's gameplay makes it the best to you? (in the event you haven't said already lol) Actually, which Persona game do you think is the best overall? I'm curious...
I don't remember that aspect of 3 well enough to compare them to say if I'd feel that way as well honestly, but I'll trust your judgement on that.
That would be something I'd need to play for myself to properly get an idea of it, because it sounds from the description like a tutorial fight, but it's probably done much better in the moment. *Shrugs* I'm glad you had a good time with them regardless of whatever the hell I might think though! ^^
Setsuna
No worries, I'm patient!
P5 just feels like the most up-to-date version with a lot of cool features. Persona fusion feels easier to understand as well as being able to turn your unwanted Personas into equipment and skill cards, there are more creative ways to knock down enemies, physical skills are simplified but magic skills are made more diverse, and multiple social links for people who aren't party members feel a lot more useful since they'll each give you extra techniques in battle or benefits in-game, so they're all worth doing. One of my favourite inclusions is being able to hold the enemies at gun-point once you've knocked them all down, where you can either initiate an All-Out Attack like usual, threaten them to give you money/items, or become your Persona. I was never too fond of gaining seemingly random Personas through shuffle time, and battling the Personas as enemies themselves and seeing what you're fighting and what you get when you recruit them is both more natural and easier to understand.
In P5R there's an extra area where you can level up your party members in different ways or teach them different skills, and each Persona has a trait (which is just the equivalent of a Pokemon's ability) which makes them each feel more useful for specific roles when you can normally just put whatever skills and stats on whatever Persona you want.
P5 just feels like the most up-to-date version with a lot of cool features. Persona fusion feels easier to understand as well as being able to turn your unwanted Personas into equipment and skill cards, there are more creative ways to knock down enemies, physical skills are simplified but magic skills are made more diverse, and multiple social links for people who aren't party members feel a lot more useful since they'll each give you extra techniques in battle or benefits in-game, so they're all worth doing. One of my favourite inclusions is being able to hold the enemies at gun-point once you've knocked them all down, where you can either initiate an All-Out Attack like usual, threaten them to give you money/items, or become your Persona. I was never too fond of gaining seemingly random Personas through shuffle time, and battling the Personas as enemies themselves and seeing what you're fighting and what you get when you recruit them is both more natural and easier to understand.
In P5R there's an extra area where you can level up your party members in different ways or teach them different skills, and each Persona has a trait (which is just the equivalent of a Pokemon's ability) which makes them each feel more useful for specific roles when you can normally just put whatever skills and stats on whatever Persona you want.
Setsuna
I think P5R is the best game in the series because of all these inclusions but also just because it has a fantastic art style and I've never felt so cool playing any other game. Just the way things like menus or cut-in animations look give it such an amazing sense of personality and identity and I can't say I've played anything that makes me feel that way. I got really immersed in the kind of vibe the game and the characters give off really quickly and it meant I was enjoying myself the whole time. This is a clip of the protagonist's All-Out Attack. It's from Smash Bros but it's pretty much copy-pasted from how it looks in P5 (It's the best I could do at one that doesn't spoil anything). It's night and day comparing it to P3 or P4 and every character gets their own special screen when you initiate one with them. Here is a clip of all of them, but it does include spoilers so watch that at your own risk.
Alex_Among_Foxes
Okay, that's good lol. ^^
I'd say those are a lot of good reasons. Does P3R add any of those kinds of improvements to that game as well? (especially the expanded magic)
Okay, now that's a really cool feature! I love it when I can 'poach' enemies to fight for me in games! (partly why I like Pokemon so much lol, minus the taking from other trainers of course)
One more question about P3R, does it have the original Persona summoning animation from 3, or the one that came from one of the remakes/re-releases?
Not to bog you down with too many questions, but generally speaking, would you say that the original version of P5 is worth a playthrough, or is P5R just better in every way?
I know very little of the differences between each version sadly.
I'd say those are a lot of good reasons. Does P3R add any of those kinds of improvements to that game as well? (especially the expanded magic)
Okay, now that's a really cool feature! I love it when I can 'poach' enemies to fight for me in games! (partly why I like Pokemon so much lol, minus the taking from other trainers of course)
One more question about P3R, does it have the original Persona summoning animation from 3, or the one that came from one of the remakes/re-releases?
Not to bog you down with too many questions, but generally speaking, would you say that the original version of P5 is worth a playthrough, or is P5R just better in every way?
I know very little of the differences between each version sadly.
Alex_Among_Foxes
I can tell that you really liked it! I've heard a lot of people online say 'oh yeah, it's a great game!' and such like that, but I've never heard anyone actually say the things about it that make them feel that way about it. It's nice to finally have an answer to that honestly. I'm glad that the game is so different from the others, especially 3, that way even if I start to feel the way I did back then about the series, I still shouldn't have any problem with giving 5R a try.
That reminds me a lot of this clip lol. And I think I'll wait to see the others until my first playthrough, but thanks for the consideration! ^^ (and the warning)
That reminds me a lot of this clip lol. And I think I'll wait to see the others until my first playthrough, but thanks for the consideration! ^^ (and the warning)
Setsuna
I don't think a lot of the gameplay additions in P5R were kept for P3R in the interest of being faithful to the original. Things like turning Personas into items, skills from social links, negotiating with enemies, or Persona traits aren't in P3R. Expanded magic is a thing though, since P5 changed the light and dark elements to include normal attack skills instead of only being the instant kill spells, but it just doesn't include the two new elements (which are Psychic and Nuclear) so any skills carried over from P5 are simply made into different elements when applicable. The only other gameplay addition P3R keeps from P5 is each character getting what's basically a super attack, which are usually just big magic attacks that ignore resistances but can sometimes have other effects. They don't exist in the same way in P5R, but they'd instead be special attacks you could use with two team members that would usually activate if you were in danger.
Setsuna
I loved being able to negotiate and hold enemies at gun-point both because it felt like my team was a really cool gang of thieves in a gameplay sense, and because I think it's a lot cooler to fight the Personas themselves to see if they interest you in battle. If I was fighting something really tough but managed to knock it down, I instantly wanted to have it as a Persona because I could see right away how useful it was. Shuffle Time is still included in P3R, but they've changed how it works to be a lot closer to how it is in P4, and I think it's a better change.
In terms of the Persona summoning animation, I think it's very similar? Here's some clips of the first time every party member summons their Persona in battle, the dialogue only plays the first time but the same effect will play every time you correctly target a weakness.
In terms of the Persona summoning animation, I think it's very similar? Here's some clips of the first time every party member summons their Persona in battle, the dialogue only plays the first time but the same effect will play every time you correctly target a weakness.
Setsuna
I don't mind the questions at all, I'm happy to offer you the information! I think the original P5 is only really worth going back to if you want to see what it was like at the time. Royal adds so much and takes away pretty much nothing, and the extra story Royal includes is optional and can be missed if you're simply not interested in doing it. If I was given the option, I would play P5R over P5 every single time. The closest thing I can think of comparing it to is playing Pokemon Emerald instead of Ruby/Sapphire. The story is the same 99% of the way through, and things like the story inclusion of Rayquaza and the Battle Frontier after the story are new additions that don't take away from what Ruby and Sapphire had.
Yeah P5 gets a lot of love because it is a great game but before I played it I didn't even know what kind of game it was. I definitely think a big strength of each game is that they try to be something completely separate. P3 had such a beautiful atmosphere and I think P4 would be a lot worse if it tried to be just as heavy, and P5 would not have made an impression on me the way it did if it wasn't so god damn cool.
Oh the P5 memes are so good, this one is an absolute classic.
Yeah P5 gets a lot of love because it is a great game but before I played it I didn't even know what kind of game it was. I definitely think a big strength of each game is that they try to be something completely separate. P3 had such a beautiful atmosphere and I think P4 would be a lot worse if it tried to be just as heavy, and P5 would not have made an impression on me the way it did if it wasn't so god damn cool.
Oh the P5 memes are so good, this one is an absolute classic.
Alex_Among_Foxes
Funnily enough, Youtube actually recommended me a video showing a comprehensive list of differences between the original P5 and P5R, and another one doing the same thing for the changes between the original P3 and P3R! There's a lot more in P5 to P5R than you might expect, although many are rather small dialog changes or additions. It's worth a look if you find yourself curious. And I'm kinda glad that they kept P3R closer to the classic honestly. It helps keep them both more unique that way.
I totally agree! That's one of the things I'm most excited to try out when I play P5. I love the idea of using a foe-turned-ally in battle, it reminds me of one of the few mechanics I really liked in the game Fire Emblem Fates. (despite most of the rest of the game being kinda 'eh')
I only barely remember Shuffle Time even from the vids I just recently watched lol. It' one of those aspects of P3 that I never really paid much attention to in the old playthrough I watched, and even now it feels just sorta 'there'. Maybe I'll really like it when I play FES? *Shrug*
The animations look really pretty, especially Shinji's at the end.
I totally agree! That's one of the things I'm most excited to try out when I play P5. I love the idea of using a foe-turned-ally in battle, it reminds me of one of the few mechanics I really liked in the game Fire Emblem Fates. (despite most of the rest of the game being kinda 'eh')
I only barely remember Shuffle Time even from the vids I just recently watched lol. It' one of those aspects of P3 that I never really paid much attention to in the old playthrough I watched, and even now it feels just sorta 'there'. Maybe I'll really like it when I play FES? *Shrug*
The animations look really pretty, especially Shinji's at the end.
Alex_Among_Foxes
I'm glad I'm not being annoying with my questions. ^^
It was an odd choice to make the extra story stuff missable like they did. Though I guess I prefer it to making it its own separate thing like they did with The Answer in FES.
I do think there is some good points from what I saw of the changes in that video to make the original worth at least a single playthrough to see the differences as you said,
and I'm honestly not sure which version I'd want to start with. There were some things I noticed in the changes vid that I actually liked better in the original surprisingly.
That was how I was when I first watched that playthrough of P3, having no idea what the game even was lol. I'd never even heard of it before that playthrough, yet it was so memorable that it's stuck with me ever since. That's something else we agree on, I absolutely would not like P4 or 5 if all they tried to do was just copy 3. Making them completely different is why I'm even interested in them in the first place.
I saw that one when I was looking for the meme I linked you lol! It's hilarious!
It was an odd choice to make the extra story stuff missable like they did. Though I guess I prefer it to making it its own separate thing like they did with The Answer in FES.
I do think there is some good points from what I saw of the changes in that video to make the original worth at least a single playthrough to see the differences as you said,
and I'm honestly not sure which version I'd want to start with. There were some things I noticed in the changes vid that I actually liked better in the original surprisingly.
That was how I was when I first watched that playthrough of P3, having no idea what the game even was lol. I'd never even heard of it before that playthrough, yet it was so memorable that it's stuck with me ever since. That's something else we agree on, I absolutely would not like P4 or 5 if all they tried to do was just copy 3. Making them completely different is why I'm even interested in them in the first place.
I saw that one when I was looking for the meme I linked you lol! It's hilarious!
Setsuna
There are definitely more changes than I thought in P5 then. I'm sure I'd know a lot less about changes to P3 since i've never really played the PS2 games, just Portable. With Reload now containing The Answer I don't really see any reason to play those versions.
I also think it was an odd choice to make it missable, since I think it's a great extension of the story, especially for the new characters Royal included. Things like the Thieves Den, Showtime attacks, Persona traits, and the darts game do make me think that I'd miss everything Royal included if I ever went back.
I also think it was an odd choice to make it missable, since I think it's a great extension of the story, especially for the new characters Royal included. Things like the Thieves Den, Showtime attacks, Persona traits, and the darts game do make me think that I'd miss everything Royal included if I ever went back.
Alex_Among_Foxes
If you're interested in seeing the changes for yourself, here's a link to a (slightly inaccurate, but corrected in a pinned comment and in the beginning of the second video he does) video going over the biggest changes, and here's one to the MUCH MORE extensive follow up video going over every difference in the early game.
After thinking it over, I'll probably just stick with FES for P3. (unless someone makes a mod that blends them both together for the PC version lol, I'd happily play the remake of 3 for that! :p)
After thinking it over, I'll probably just stick with FES for P3. (unless someone makes a mod that blends them both together for the PC version lol, I'd happily play the remake of 3 for that! :p)
Setsuna
Ohhhh, I definitely have seen the bigger video! I haven't watched it but I have a big playlist of videos to listen to when I'm doing things like working so I have it queue'd up in there, so I'll get to it eventually.
Honestly, I'm unsure how a mod like that would even work. P3R does have a cool modding scene though, there's a big team for a mod to add the female character from Portable into the game, that's pretty exciting.
Honestly, I'm unsure how a mod like that would even work. P3R does have a cool modding scene though, there's a big team for a mod to add the female character from Portable into the game, that's pretty exciting.