Gen V - Metagame Speculation Thread

i was hoping more NUs could get the Mischievous Heart ability =/

Speaking of Mischievous Heart, I certainly am a fan of using Volbeat long as it carries that ability. Sash it, give it Encore, Tail Glow, Substitute/Bug Buzz and Baton Pass. Free +3 Sp. Atk (yes, I do mean +3. It got buffed and only Manaphy and Volbeat carry this move from what I know) to a pokemon of your choice. It's a viable lead to set up a sweep early on. I haven't decided on a definite EV spread or even an optimal moveset though. Just that Tail Glow + Baton Pass usually gets the job done. I can see Volbeat going up a tier or two due to this.

Aside from that, the likes of Rankurusu, Nattorei and Roobushin has inspired me to try and create a Trick Room team. 30-45 base speed is fairly disappointing but quite a few of the slower Pokemon like those three excel at what they do.

According to a friend who's played BW (i thought he said he wouldn't ._.), Kojonda is a beastly anti-lead. All I really want to know is whether it screws up Dual Screen Azelf much. 8D What does it usually do?

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From what I've seen, they usually just Fake Out asap and see if you switch or not. Otherwise U-Turn or HJK even though that missing with the latter more or less is suicide for your Kojondo even with Regeneration. Sometimes Stone Edge, not much else. I like it as a lead anyways.

+ is erufuun lead that powerful? what happens when you taunt it? It gets one Seed/Encore/Sub up before you force it to U-turn out?

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If you don't Taunt it right away, then yeah. It can also just carry Taunt anyways with easy +1 priority long as it has Mischievous Heart and proceed to set up SubSeed, Encore, ect. Erufuun's pretty common, most teams have him in there somewhere simply because even without him being a lead, 116 base speed and Mischievous Heart isn't something to laugh at and he's an amazing support Pokemon that can easily stop any Pokemon from setting up long as it enters the fray in time.

After playing a battle, I got raped by a pink blob. Yeah, Ditto.

So I was proceeding to Linoone sweep, then he came along and raped me. I was pretty mad afterwards.

SuperiorCat said:

I run...
Volbeat @ Salac Berry
Mischievous Heart
4 HP/252 Spd/252 SDef
Timid nature

• Tail Glow
• Substitute
• Encore
• Baton Pass

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why the spd investment if it's abusing ability?

SuperiorCat said:

I run...
Volbeat @ Salac Berry
Mischievous Heart
4 HP/252 Spd/252 SDef
Timid nature

• Tail Glow
• Substitute
• Encore
• Baton Pass

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Looks good but ultimately like what Samson said, why the 252 Spd? Unless you intend to beat out one or two specific priority abusers. I see it better off with at least a bit into defense or HP to help it take a hit or two without a Sash.

It's true though that Mischievous Heart is helping Volbeat out a lot. I won't be surprised if a few additional NU or UU Pokemon go up a tier because of that ability alone.

After playing a battle, I got raped by a pink blob. Yeah, Ditto.

So I was proceeding to Linoone sweep, then he came along and raped me. I was pretty mad afterwards.

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Haha, DW Ditto is amazing. Quite possibly one of the best revenge killers and scouters right now. I haven't run into them too often, but I do watch other matches where they utterly rape and destroy everything in their way.

I'm training my Meraruba actually, from the Egg received in Route 18.



Brave nature @ Life Orb (now Lucky Egg :D)

252 Def - 252 Sp. Def

Lv. 55

Fire Blast
Wild Bolt
U-Turn (to be removed)
Acrobat (to be removed)

Give me some advices :D

DW abilities seem so uber to me.

why is nobody treating them like the events they should be? ._.

nobody used Arceus in the beginning of 4th gen, did they? ._.

Cloyster is some serious business now. Like serious business.


Cloyster (F) @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 240 Atk / 16 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Shell Smash
- Shell Blade/Explosion
Cloyster is by far the best Shell Smash abuser. Skill Link makes both Rock Blast and Icicle Spear unbelievably uber. Max speed is usually wanted just to be able to outspeed some things, although Shell Smash remedies that problem. Shell Blade verse Explosion is completely preference. Tbh I wish waterfall was still available.I prefer shell blade to hit Heatran and other threats. However, explosion will do some serious damage with +2.

Focus Sash is a good item if you want to safely get a shell smash up. I prefer life orb, however. Switching in to another water pokemon or a pokemon sleeping is an easy way to let Cloyster quickly set up.

tl;dr version: Cloyster has officially obtained it's true potential.

Ninja Caterpie said:

DW abilities seem so uber to me.

why is nobody treating them like the events they should be? ._.

nobody used Arceus in the beginning of 4th gen, did they? ._.

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Pokemon Online is doing this. Dream world abilities are only allowed in higher tiers (until they get officially released).

Higher tiers are pfft.

Dream World Clause/New Extended Clause plz.

Ok on a huge turnabout i DO think Doryuuzu is psuedo broken.

Mach Punch is basically THE only way to deal with Balloon Doryuuzu. :/ Or a Hippowdon set which im using which hits it despite Balloon. ;D

Also stop using Explosion, it sucks now rofl. No really it does like 2 haha.

Im doing well with stall on PO,top 40 and rising.

Is it bad im considering using scarf golduck on stall to beat dumb dorry ? =[[[[[

lmfao with weather seemingly so strong now, I legitimately don't see why not.

I could actually see Cloud Nine Lickylicky working better than Golduck. It has better defenses than the other two and doesn't get wrecked as badly as the other two by those kind of teams (Altaria gets nailed with Stone Edge from Sandstorm teams and Ice Beam from Rain teams, Golduck gets destroyed by Sunny Day teams where his water move sare weakened and there are a lot of Grass types with upped speed). Lickylicky also has an awesome movepool, and I think after one Cheer Up it can 1HKO or 2HKO all the weather inducers excluding Kyogre/Groudon. It can also, with a Choice Scarf, outspeed Doryuzuu when it cancels out Sand and do a lot of damage to it with Earthquake, although its Balloon would have to be broken beforehand, if there is one. It can also learn Wish and Heal Bell because of some 3rd Gen event egg move I think, the same as Chansey/Blissey. This means it can stop the weather as well as pass Wish and cure teammates of their status.
Overall, I think Lickylicky way outclasses Golduck and Altaria as a Cloud Nine user.

Zaroas said:

Golduck gets destroyed by Sunny Day teams where his water move sare weakened and there are a lot of Grass types with upped speed).

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Did I miss something in the ability of Cloud Nine, or does it not stop weather ?

._.

Ninja Caterpie said:

Did I miss something in the ability of Cloud Nine, or does it not stop weather ?

._.

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It does. :/

Also im pretty sure Psychic/Ice Beam OHKO all grass type sweepers you are likely to see on sunny day lol.

EDIT :

Balloon is broken imo. :/ Its so easy to sweep with that garbage especially on pokes with not many weaks outside ground. >__>

i dislike 5th gen. too much weather.

Ok time for biggest threats on the wifi ladder on pokemon online. Dream World doesnt exist yet.


Offensively.

- Doryuuzu. By FAR the most ridiculous threat of this metagame. Its almost on par with Garchomp of D/P. With a Balloon it nulls all its ground type counters and becomes immune to Spikes and with its bulk it can live crazy things like an LO Infernape Vacuum Wave and Boiling waters from the likes of Suicune. It can also Rapid Spin extremely well and play mind games. Is it using X-Scissor over Spin ? Good look Sazandora, Grass and Latias checks. Is is using Return ? Good look Gliscor, Landlos and Rotom-W. Is it using Brick Break so other Baloon Dory cant revenge it ? Does it have a LO ? Is it Jolly so you can win a speed tie with your own Doryuuzu ? Centralizing force indeed. Standard set is SD, Rock Slide, EQ, <you chose> @ Balloon. Aqua Jets and Mach Punches are your best friend against this, but at all costs you NEED to pop that Balloon and it becomes alot easier to deal with then counters like bulky grounds work amazingly. I use Intimidate Max/Max Hitmontop and it works well and so do guys like Weezing.

- Two words; Specs Latios. Its insane. With Trick and ways to remove Blissey this thing is a real pain in the ass. Nothing, not even steels like taking this bad boys assaults. As Nattorei is common it commonly uses HP Fire too so not even that is a safe check. Along with Latias, they are on most teams so you better prepare for them. Common set is Trick, Draco Meteor, Surf, HP Fire or Dragon Pulse or T-Bolt. Blissey or bust when dealing with this guy sadly or have an incredibly bulky steel + scarfar/Scizor with Pursuit at the ready.

- Shocked to see this ? Trust me not as much as i was to see that its on nearly every team. Base 140 att, STAB Mach Punch to keep Dory + Sazandorra in check and new supped up Drain Punch along with Bulk Up is all this guy needs to wreck faces. Bulk Up with Drain Punch is a semi healing move and it actually lets it outstall Hippowdon, the best physically bulky wall in the game. Its literally like Machamp on crack. This guy also just does not die to physical attacks, period, though its hard to get rid of in general. Its common set is Bulk Up, Drain Punch, Mach Punch and Payback or Stone Edge. Nothing likes taking this on apart from maybe Desukaan and defensive Gyarados. Weezing works too, just dont burn it lol. >_>

- "Weeee i never guessed you'd see this thing here lol". Anyways Garchomp is back in gen 5 for round 2. The metagame might of changed but he is still annoying as ever if Sandveil kicks in. It also still hits very hard but it is alot easier to revenge kill and check with things like Dragon Tail Defensive Gyarados and Scarfers. Its commonly a Swords Dancer (SD/EQ/Fire Fang/Outrage or Claw @ Type resist berry but the Scarfer isnt that uncommon either (Outrage, EQ, Stone Edge, Dragon Claw. Fire Blast or Fang is sometimes in either of the last 2 slots). Skarmory, Hippowdon combo's and Dragon Tail Gyara along with checks/revenge killers like Starmie, Latias and Scarfers like Sazandora keep this guy at bay. Also P2 @ pre-evo stone.

- Take Salamence and remove Dragon Dance and + a typing and ability that nulls residual damage with some cool things like U-Turn and Taunt and you have Sazandora. Its definitely a power house and its scouting abilities are superb because its so scary to go against. Its one of the most common Scarfers as its basically tailor made for that role, bulk, resists Pursuit, typing, ability, movepool, speed and power. Though dont be surprized if you run into a MixLo or Specs set. Very unpredictable and it hurts. Alot. Most common sets are scarf/specs (Draco, Fire Blast, U-Turn, Surf) or Mix LO (Draco, Crunch, EQ, Fire Blast). Mach Punchers, faster guys with SE hits and Scarfer work and mostly Blissey/Lax. Otherwise just predict around it and try and get status on him.

- Ah Landlos. This powerful genie easily rips apart teams in the ever common SS. As shown by Syberia's #1 team, this monster pulls its weight with its amazing offensive and defensive abilities. Sandpower powers up its earth edge combo and with the same typing as Gliscor its definitely no push over. It also has the luxury of choosing U-Turn, Explosion or even Swords Dance. A pain because its difficult to initially switch into. Usually a CB/scarfer (U-Turn, Boom, Stone, EQ) or a SDer (SD, Boom, EQ, SE). Waters are your best bet just make sure they are tanky or faster and scarfers work too. Beware though this guy is pretty bulky with 89/90/80 Defenses. Ice Fang Hippowdon is great in addition.

- This may come as a surprise to alot of you as T-Tar still being a huge threat. It did to me with Doryuuzu, Garchomp everywhere and Roopushin/fighters and also Hippowdon virtually on every team. However Tyranitar is seen as a lead mostly these days or a Choice Bander. It commonly uses special attacks like both Fire Blast and Ice beam to beat its checks and counter, also serves as a great team mate to Doryuuzu luring in its counters/checks like Hippowdon, Skarm and Gliscor AND activating sand throw. Still a good sturdy fighter takes care of this guy along with its low speed its scarfer and Dory can still check it. Fire Blast, Ice Beam, SR or SuperPower , Crunch is what its mostly using or just the CB and scarf sets.

- Same old same old. Yep Salamence is still a huge threat. Is it Mix, CB, DD, Bulky ? Might take you a poke to find out ! It still hits ridiculously hard and it is still difficult to deal with. Underestimate this powerful dragon at your peril. Find out its set and deal with it accordingly is the best advice i can offer steels are good checks for this. Scarfers too. Its running the same sets as it was in gen 4. Also P2 @ pre-evo stone walls all its sets.

- Voltolos is usually as a lead and for good reason thanks to Mischevious Heart Taunts and great typing. It also gets Nasty Plot and Focus Blast along with Grass Knot. This lets it own most things easily even Blissey struggles with this guy and to cap it off it also has base 111 speed ! To say this is hard to wall is an understatement, its one of the best pure special wall breakers and late game cleaners. However it is rather frail but that doesnt matter with the things it has going for it. Nothing likes taking hits from this. The Lati twins are probably the best bet and Garchomp (make sure it doesnt have HP Ice, the latter, Lati's dont care as they're faster and can take one) Doryuuzu can revenge kill and so can scarfers. Ice Beam Bliss works great.
- Ulgamoth. It makes me laugh when people say "Stealth Rock isnt as useful as it was in gen 4" and most of the time i say shut up and point them in the direction of this. Base 100 speed, butterfly dance (+1 speed, sp.att and sp.def) and base 135 sp.Att If you dont have Blissey or a really bulky water or Salamence to check this, ouch is all i can say. Sure its Stealth Rock weak, but wow with team support this is devastating. Butterfly Dance/Fire Dance or Fire Blast/Bug Buzz/HP Ground or Sub or Psychic is the standard set.

Defensive.


- Nattorei is a personal favourite. He is a staple on alot of stall teams now and for good reason. He makes Ononokusu look pathetic, it has Spikes AND SR, Leech Seed and a Rough Skin clone ability and to cap it off phenominal base 74/131/116 defenses. Whats not to love ? Not only that but his Gyro Ball and Power Whip coming from base 20 speed and base 94 att stings. That and he is arguable the best Gyarados counter in existence. Fire and Fighting moves are his downfall though, beware though he has a TON of resistances so can nearly always Spike the field and his partner in crime blocks spin which is...
- Burungeru of course, covering all of Nattorei's weaks whilst Nattorei covers his. Another one of my fav pokemon gen 5. The Water/Ghost octopus with bulk in the mounds, he also gets Recover and makes Starmie look poop. An amazing utility Pokemon to say the least. Boiling Water, Will-o-Wisp, Recover, Shadow Ball is the usual set but other moves such as Taunt and Toxic arent rare in the last slot. Hit this thing with HARD physical moves or boosted dark, ghost or electric moves or you will not get past it lol.
- Skarmory is still around as a top defensive threat. He poops on Ononokusu and still walls hits like a champ and is annoying as ever. More are physically defensive these days to take hits from Doryuuzu rather than the late HG/SS sp.def standard Taunter. Spikes/WW/Roost/Brave Bird. Hit it with special moves you know the drill.
- Hippowdon is another very common Pokemon. To quote people on smogon, "it has gotten TWICE as good as it was in the 4th gen" since it walls a tonne of things. Hardly anything physical gets by this dude. its also your best friend against Garchomp and DD Nite/Mence being an excellent check to all of them with Ice Fang. It can also phaze many things like Roopushin. Standard set is same as it always was, some use SuperPower as the second attack move to hit Balloon Doryuuzu. "Hit it with special moves you know the drill."
- Blissey is still the premier special wall and she is here to stay. As Wish got a buff and Explosion got nerfed, dare i say, she got even BETTER. Seismic Toss is near useless in this metagame, it doesnt do damage quickly enough and Ice Beam (Voltolos) and Flamethrower (Luke, Dory, Scizor, Loom, Nattorei, Skarm, Forry and the list continues) are so much better in this metagame. Flamethrower or Ice Beam, Toxic or T-Wave, Softboiled, Wish or SR seems to be standard. Physical attacks googog lol

Most annoying piece of pokepoop ?

- Rankurusu please die i hate you so much. I wish i was joking but i hate this thing. Calm Mind, Recover, Psycho Shock or Psychic, Focus Blast @ Magic Guard with max Def and HP @ Life Orb. Ugh...just ugh...

There are other guys who pop up on occassion like Terakion, Ononokusu, Shanderra, Deoxys-A, Hihidurama and Desukaan ETC. For the most part these are the big threats currently.




Playstyles :

Bulky offense is the most common, followed by Sandstorm offense and then last but not least, stall which most people still cant deal with lol. >>

Best anti metagame poke ?

Wobbuffet. Ridiculous on stall and offense. Yes i used it on stall to check Rankurusu but wow it does so much more than that, its still crazy and gets a kill at least a game.

Wobba's best set is custap bond with countercoat and encore lol.

tbh weezing became an amazing check for many things, assuming you use flamethrower rofl.