Help Me With My 5th Gen UU Team?

As the title suggests, I'm having some iffy points on my team. Looking for some opinions on improving.

TLDR is at the bottom.

Crustle@ Lum Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast
- X-Scissor
---

Stealth Rock lead, but if I expect a taunt, then I will use an attack, or switch. If I expect a magic coat, or a magic bounce switch, I will shell smash and proceed to make him into a sweeper. Rock Blast over Stone Edge to take out Sashers and Subbers.

Sawsbuck@ Life Orb
Trait: Sap Sipper
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 116 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Return
- Nature Power
---

Recent addition to my team, replaced Scolipede. Switch in on a grass attack I know is coming from something I know it's coming from, or on someone trying to buff up, not expecting Sawsbuck to hit very hard (I've run into this a lot, no one thinks it can hit hard at all, only to have him OHKO Suicune while they're busy trying to calm mind up. Nature Power acts as Earthquake in WiFi rooms, etc.

Sigilyph@ Flame Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Roost
- Psycho Shift
---

Second new addition to team. Was looking for a special attacker, but ended up with a quite competent mixed wall that quickly becomes a VERY evil special sweeper. I know this is cookie cutter, but my god is it amazing. XD

Lilligant@ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy
- Giga Drain
---

This is my... surprise. No one ever expects it. A mixed wall Lilligant. It came around when I hatched a shiny Petilil that was calm natured. The EVs give it 228 def/sp def (have 31 def and sp def, the others are crap though, which also led to the wall idea). Although she'll still get blown over by a physical attacker, typically by the time they switch into one (most try to take her out with a flamethrower user), she has enough quiver dances up her sleeve to OHKO things, or extremely dent them, and finish them off the next turn.

Mandibuzz@ Leftovers
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Toxic
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Knock Off
---

I shouldn't even need to explain this. Some people go for Brave Bird over Knock Off, which I have been considering, but Knock Off has saved me a lot over the time (Like getting a lucky knock off on an Archeops switch in). Typical Mixed Wall Mandibuzz.

Audino (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Healer
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Protect
- Wish
- Flamethrower
---

I used to love my Audino. Hatched it (like Lilligant), shiny. Had the right nature, and good IVs, so I said "Why not?" She's a stalling wisher. Flamethrower is meant to hit ghost and steel types, which return wouldn't be doing, and the occasional burn on the physical attackers I can't poison is also amazing.


So, essentially, I need to replace someone. I'm lacking oomph. I'm thinking that although I like her, Audino is the one that has to go. Lilligant and Mandibuzz are both mixed walls, though Lilligant quickly becomes more specially oriented with quiver dance. Crustle has it's place as a lead and special sweeper, whereas Sawsbuck has it's place as a physical sweeper, and Sigilyph as another mixed wall and special sweeper.

So, opinions. So, with that in mind, what would you guys suggest as a 6th member for this, if we do in fact remove Audino? I was even considering removing Lilligant, as Mandibuzz and Sigilyph do amazing jobs as walls alone, and Lilligant requires a lot of set up in order to be played effectively.

TLDR; Looking for suggestions as if I were looking for 2 extra members, with my posted members being Crustle as a lead/physical sweeper, Sawsbuck as a physical sweeper, Mandibuzz as a mixed stall wall, and Sigilyph as a mixed wall/special sweeper. All must be from the 5th generation, all UU (by smogon standards), no legendaries, and no starters. (A personal matter).

IMO, Shell Smash isn' t very good on lead Crustle because it's meant to support the team early rather than go all-out mid to late game. In that case, replace Shell Smash with Spikes. (you can breed for it).

Lilligant is best as Timid or Modest because its defenses are bad regardless of being Calm or Bold; use 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe. It also needs a Hidden Power over Aromatherapy (Ice, Fire or Rock) so it won't be walled horribly.

Audino isn' t very good to be honest; Chansey does its job a lot better:
-Seismic Toss
-Thunder Wave
-Softboiled
-Stealth Rock (?)
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure

I do appreciate your comments, but I wasn't looking for suggestions on Crustle. I am quite happy with a Shell Smash variation.

As for Audino, yes, I know she isn't the best. She was fine, but now is getting outclassed as new strategies pop up. However, Chansey is not from the 5th generation, which is even mentioned in the title of this thread.

As for Lilligant, as I said, I probably want to replace her. I had her hatch shiny as calm with 31 def and sp.def IVs, which is why I went that route. It's Hidden Power is also Grass.

I appreciate your comments, but you simply told me that one of the pokemon I wasn't looking for advice on was wrong, that one needed to be completely redone, despite me wanting to replace her, and then suggested a 1st generation replacement for a 5th generation team. That's not very helpful.

No need to get sassy lol. (And usually when you say 5th gen people think that it encompases everything available up until Gen 5. So thats probably where the confusion is coming from)

But if you are looking for a good wish passer. there are only 3 Fully evolved pokemon with Wish in Gen 5. Of the three Alomomola is by FAR the best option, with great defenses and just in general a good supporting pokemon.

I dont know too much about Alomomola, (I've never used it) So I'll just give you Smogon's set.


name: Wish Support
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect
move 3: Waterfall / Aqua Jet
move 4: Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Hydration
evs: 108 HP / 176 Def / 224 SpD
nature: Impish

Hope this helps.

Oh, sorry about that. How about Throh? It can take hits very well:
-Bulk Up
-Storm Throw/Circle Throw
-Payback/Stone Edge
-Rest/Taunt/Toxic
Nature: Careful
EVs: 84 HP/128 Def/252 SDef/44 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Guts

Throh is actually quite amazing. o_o

Alomomola... not so much. XD

I used Audino as my first wall, was unexpected. But now people expect it.

I also replaced Sawsbuck with a Adamant 252 att/252 speed pure physical attacking one, the swords dance one never really lived. (Megahorn, Return, Horn Leech, Jump Kick)

So, that leaves me with 3 walls, Throh, Mandibuzz, Sigilyph, a physical attacker in sawsbuck, and a physical lead with Crustle.

Methinks I need another special attacker, as sigilyph is the only one. :S

I'm looking at Cryogonal for Rapid Spin, honestly.

Cryogonal is like the Blissey of Gen V. Great Special Defense, terrible Defense. But it trades less HP for better Defense. But it's another wall. If you want a Special Ice-type, use Vanilluxe.

Vanilluxe @ Life Orb
Modest Nature
Ability: Ice Body
Autotomize/Ice Shard/Icy Wind
Ice Beam/Blizzard
Hidden Power Dark
Water Pulse/Flash Cannon
EVs: 148 HP/164 SpAtk/196 Spe
IVs: Flawless (for Dark)

You can also use Choice Scarf and go Ice Beam/Blizzard/HP Dark/Water Pulse or Flash Cannon.

Vanilluxe's movepool is very odd.

It can get Ice Shard and Water Pulse, but then it can't get Autotomize. The former 2 come from Glalie, wheras the latter comes from Steelix.

So it's pretty much:

Ice Beam
Flash Cannon
Autotomize/Water Pulse
???

That's the only issue I have with Vanilluxe. I could go for like Swagger for a surprise, Or explosion for some oomph as a last resort.

But then I have to think, Autotomize is awesome, but without Water Pulse, any fire or steel type will wall Vanilluxe, and fire back and kill it pretty simply. At least it stands a chance with Water Pulse.

Yes, but you forgot about HP Dark, Ice Shard, and Icy Wind. So, there you have:

Ice Shard/Icy Wind (Speed Move)
Ice Beam/Blizzard (STAB Move)
HP Dark (Coverage)
Water Pulse (Coverage)

So you can safely breed from Glalie and not have to worry about Autotomize. Unless, of course, you want it over Ice Shard/Icy Wind.

Myzou said:

Throh is actually quite amazing. o_o

Alomomola... not so much. XD

Click to expand...

alol, whatever. You're loss.

I think the above Vanilluxe set was taken from a VGC analysis (which may not work well in singles). HP Dark will leave you walled by Steels:
-Autotomize
-Ice Beam
-Water Pulse/Flash Cannon
-Hidden Power (Fire/Ground/Electric)
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers

As I said before, Autotomize and Water Pulse/Ice Shard is an illegal moveset. :P

I'm currently testing Ice Beam, HP Dark, Water Pulse, and Flash Cannon.

Steel Types can still be hit by Water Pulse, and due to a large majority of steel types being part ground or rock, will get hit super effective by it.

Myzou said:

As I said before, Autotomize and Water Pulse/Ice Shard is an illegal moveset. :P

I'm currently testing Ice Beam, HP Dark, Water Pulse, and Flash Cannon.

Steel Types can still be hit by Water Pulse, and due to a large majority of steel types being part ground or rock, will get hit super effective by it.

Click to expand...

Totally forgot.

Just so you know:
A supereffective Water Pulse will still do less than a STAB Ice Beam against Rock Pokemon (not Rock/Ground). Rock/Ground Pokemon still take tons of damage from Ice Beam regardless.

For HP Dark, it does a bit less to Ghosts and Darks than Ice Beam would, and it leaves you vulnerable to Steel Pokemon (with your current set). That was why I suggested HP (Ground), which hits Rock/Steel Pokemon hard too. Ice/Ground provide good coverage.

Flash Cannon doesn't offer a lot of coverage, but since Vanilluxe's movepool is pretty shallow, you'll have to make do with it.

I'm being walled completely by Water Types at the moment.

Resists Ice Beam, Flash Cannon, Water Pulse. Most I can do is pop HP Fighting on for neutral damage, but even then, I think Ice Beam would hit harder.

Well, here are the damage calculations for Ice Beam.

Ice Beam vs. Weak to Ice=284 BP (Rounded Down)
Ice Beam vs. 1/2 to Ice=67 BP (Rounded Down)
Ice Beam vs. Neutral to Ice=142 BP (Rounded Down)
Ice Beam vs. 1/4 to Ice=35 BP (Rounded Down)
Ice Beam vs. 4x weak to Ice= 568 BP (Rounded Down)

So, looking at the bolded line, Water Pulse is inferior to Ice Beam for Steels and Steel/Grounds with its 60 Base Power (Dealing 60 BP Damage to Steels and 120 BP Damage to Steel/Grounds) but is superior for Fires and Steel/Rocks. Hidden Power Fire and Ground are superior for Steels not neutral to Ice, simply for having 140 BP as a supereffective hit.

So therefore Water Pulse is inferior to Hidden Power [Ground] and usually inferior to Hidden Power [Fire].

Blizzard/Ice Beam
Autotomize/Icy Wind
Hidden Power [Ground]
Flash Cannon?

Flash Cannon could now become inferior for only covering one extra type (fellow Ices) that is not excessively common. That also means there are some Pokemon that can still wall you. Bronzong, Walrein, Skarmory, EvioChansey, Blissey. Especially Bronzong, as it resist Ice Beam and Flash Cannon and is immune to HP ground, and can then hit back with a Gyro Ball.

I'm running a Choice Scarf on it currently. For the most part, I just stick with Ice Beam, honestly. Might try out an autotomize set instead of Water Pulse, but then there begs the question of item. Can't risk life orb, as chances are it wouldn't survive after the turn required to use autotomize.

Is there a reason to go with HP Ground over Fighting? You also have to take into account how many Steel/rock Types run the balloon, which in turn would not even affect them.

Fighting would allow me to hit Normals super effectively, Steel types also super effective, and steel/rock x4 effective, just like ground. It'd leave me open to no super effective vs Fire, but it'd also allow me to use water types for neutral damage as well.

EDIT: Fighting is actually doing a great job on things like Empoleon, that resist Ice 4x, and would only be hit neutrally by Ground. Also 2HKOd an Arcanine that tried to take me out with ExtremeSpeed (due to autotomize).

However, on Normal Types, I know Ice Beam would be better. (142 Ice Beam BP compared to 140 HP Fighting).