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Steve Jobs resigns

twocows

The not-so-black cat of ill omen
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  • Really? Because everyone I've talked to says that his successor has no vision.

    Chairman of the board means he'll have some say in the direction of the company, but it'll be significantly less (a fraction of the power he has now).
     
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    Well, he's still Chairman of the board. Maybe his resignation from his higher position is to draw less attention to himself, as there's the possibility that his resignation is related to his health, though Apple is yet to confirm this.
     
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  • http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/08/24/steve-jobs-resigns-as-apple-ceo/

    I for one welcome Apple's slow and eventual death at the hands of someone without Steve's masterful ability to sell overpriced trendy crap to people who can't afford it.


    You're talking about someone who changed the course of computing history for the better not once, but at least three times. And now that he's had cancer and a liver transplant and can't keep doing that, you're happy to trivialise his accomplishments, insult all his customers, and wish for the death of all his works. Simultaneously. Bitter, much?

    You're happy to go back to a time like the 90s when Microsoft, having no actual competition, was given open license to dominate everyone with appallingly broken software? Or in analogous terms you can more clearly identify with, would you be happy if Sony and Microsoft stopped selling games and consoles so that Nintendo, this forum's favouritest game publisher, would have no reason to innovate or change anything at all?
     
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    Steve Jobs has also done a lot of terrible things too, by the way.

    Like, oh, refusing to acknowledge paternity of his daughter. Or the part where he scrapped all of Apple's corporate philanthropy programs. There's also a wonderful morality argument to be made in that people with lots of money, like Steve, who can afford to jet around the country at a moments' notice, are therefore able to be admitted to a lot more waiting lists for an organ transplant than the average Joe.

    Nice generalisation that everyone here likes Nintendo, too.
     
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    112
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  • Steve Jobs has also done a lot of terrible things too, by the way.

    Like, oh, refusing to acknowledge paternity of his daughter. Or the part where he scrapped all of Apple's corporate philanthropy programs. There's also a wonderful morality argument to be made in that people with lots of money, like Steve, who can afford to jet around the country at a moments' notice, are therefore able to be admitted to a lot more waiting lists for an organ transplant than the average Joe.

    Nice generalisation that everyone here likes Nintendo, too.


    Nice distortion of my own words. Bitter, much?

    I know full well that Steve Jobs also has (very) bad character traits. That doesn't exactly justify hatred. Or if it does, I should hate you, and myself, and everyone on the planet who's ever done a thing wrong. If you prefer morality to be about social welfare (I don't, but, whatever), he probably did a lot more good for humanity than bad.

    As for corporate philanthropy, I was under the impression that charity was a private matter for individuals, rather than a publicity opportunity for corporations. Medical waiting lists? That's the USA's system which was put in place to benefit the rich. If you want to blame rich people for living within a system that favours them in a capitalist nation, take it to politics debates.

    Finally, I didn't claim everyone here likes Nintendo, I said that it's this forum's favourite game publisher. But if you want to contest what I actually said, try putting up a poll and see how that turns out.

    Just to help you out there, other popular game publishers include Activision, EA, THQ, Bethesda, 2K, Square Enix, and Valve.
     

    Winneon

    [b][color=#fb0120]しょう[/color][color=#fc6d24]が[/col
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  • In my opinion, I would hate to see Steve Jobs go. I am a huge fan of Apple's Macintosh and I think the price is worth the features a Mac has to offer.
     

    twocows

    The not-so-black cat of ill omen
    4,307
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  • You're talking about someone who changed the course of computing history for the better not once, but at least three times. And now that he's had cancer and a liver transplant and can't keep doing that, you're happy to trivialise his accomplishments, insult all his customers, and wish for the death of all his works. Simultaneously. Bitter, much?
    Nice appeal to emotion (he has cancer, that makes him immune to criticism) to go with the ad hominem (bitter much?) and the straw man (I never insulted his customers).

    I want his company to fail for so many reasons. They lie, they cheat, they steal, and they overcharge to customers who can't afford it (especially college students).

    Also, care to tell me exactly what he has accomplished (for the better, even) other than copying things others have made, marketing them like crazy, and selling them at a price point twice as high as is necessary? Their research on usability is perhaps the ONLY new thing to come out of that company. Everything else was copied from elsewhere. Even their "innovative" product designs are copied from other companies.

    You're happy to go back to a time like the 90s when Microsoft, having no actual competition, was given open license to dominate everyone with appallingly broken software? Or in analogous terms you can more clearly identify with, would you be happy if Sony and Microsoft stopped selling games and consoles so that Nintendo, this forum's favouritest game publisher, would have no reason to innovate or change anything at all?
    I know I'm Godwining here, but it's a valid metaphor. You're exchanging Hitler for Stalin. They're both horrible, I don't want either of them. Modern day Apple is as bad or worse than 90s MS. In the same ways, even! They're going down the exact same path. Stifling competition (see: Samsung), pouring millions into marketing instead of making a product that sells itself, and taking things that already existed and calling them innovative (remember the 2010 Apple conference? "IT'S THE FUTURE GUYS, WE CAN VIDEO CHAT, WE DID IT!", completely ignoring the fact that video conferencing has been around for years).

    I also don't appreciate your talking down to me. I work in the technology sector, I'm well aware of the history of both Apple and Microsoft and what effects they had on the industry. Even Apple's earliest "innovation," the graphical user interface, wasn't their own. Most of the elements were already in place and copied from Xerox.

    There's no reason to be rude, I'm merely stating my take on the news.
     
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    Machu Pichu

    oddsoul.
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  • I honestly have nothing against Steve Jobs himself, and I feel sad that he has cancer, just like I would for anyone with cancer.

    Be that as it may, I am defintely not a "fan" of Apple, its products, its sales tactics, or the reputation its products get. I don't hate him as a person, I just don't like the company and what it has become.
     
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    What twocows is saying is true; Apple isn't exactly the most trustworthy company. They have a history of lies, especially from Steve Jobs, who can basically scam people by overcharging thdem. Honestly, if Apple products were less expensive, I would try try to get one of their computers. Now, aboyt their "innovations", many of them aren't actually their own. Like twocows said, they're stolen. Look at the link in his signature. Steve Jobs asked for the creation of something he took credit for and then scammed him out of the pay he was supposed to get by lying. Also, many of these features are from lesser-known operating systems (such as GNU/Linux distros), and Apple adds shiny buttons to make them look cooler and gives them no credit at all.
     

    Mr. X

    It's... kinda effective?
    2,391
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  • I'd have no problems paying 2k for one of their computers if it was more customizable.

    But it was a pretty dick move of Apple AND Intel to create their little deal completely cutting AMD out completely. Im kinda suprised that Intel didn't get sued over the monopoly, like they did when they attempted it with Windows based PC's.
     
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  • Nice appeal to emotion (he has cancer, that makes him immune to criticism) to go with the ad hominem (bitter much?) and the straw man (I never insulted his customers).

    I want his company to fail for so many reasons. They lie, they cheat, they steal, and they overcharge to customers who can't afford it (especially college students).

    Also, care to tell me exactly what he has accomplished (for the better, even) other than copying things others have made, marketing them like crazy, and selling them at a price point twice as high as is necessary? Their research on usability is perhaps the ONLY new thing to come out of that company. Everything else was copied from elsewhere. Even their "innovative" product designs are copied from other companies.

    I know I'm Godwining here, but it's a valid metaphor. You're exchanging Hitler for Stalin. They're both horrible, I don't want either of them. Modern day Apple is as bad or worse than 90s MS. In the same ways, even! They're going down the exact same path. Stifling competition (see: Samsung), pouring millions into marketing instead of making a product that sells itself, and taking things that already existed and calling them innovative (remember the 2010 Apple conference? "IT'S THE FUTURE GUYS, WE CAN VIDEO CHAT, WE DID IT!", completely ignoring the fact that video conferencing has been around for years).

    I also don't appreciate your talking down to me. I work in the technology sector, I'm well aware of the history of both Apple and Microsoft and what effects they had on the industry. Even Apple's earliest "innovation," the graphical user interface, wasn't their own. Most of the elements were already in place and copied from Xerox.

    There's no reason to be rude, I'm merely stating my take on the news.

    Sorry, didn't notice a reply.

    I have no argument involving patent wars. My own view is that they're largely political cat-fighting, and pretty much every large tech company has a hand in it.

    But you're missing my point. What I was trying to point out is that, it would not be a better place without Apple because you would have a situation, like the 90s, where Microsoft is in a position so dominant it can do anything it likes. You could argue that Apple is in a similar position with, say, smartphones, but in actual fact there are no such barriers to entry as Microsoft had established in the 90s and even before. Google's Android project has been sky-rocketing. Microsoft's Windows Mobile 6 was languishing not because it was artificially stifled, but because it became outdated. Windows Phone 7 is, I'm given to understand, doing moderately well.

    Since you've told me not to be "talking down", and then begun doing pretty much the exact same thing yourself, I thought I might add a history lesson.

    1) If you knew your computing history well at all, you would know that, in fact, Apple's first innovation was not the GUI, but the all-in-one personal computer. Up until then you were either a hobbyist putting together the pieces yourself, or you were leasing IBM's mainframes.

    2) Furthermore, the GUI with its WIMP model was indeed the invention of Xerox's PARC division, but people have this idea that it looked just like the Mac's interface and that Apple ripped them off. In actual fact, Apple paid Xerox with shares in the company in order to see the output of their lab (yes, PARC was a computer science lab, and Xerox had no actual interest in developing products from them as continually proven by their refusal to enter the personal computer market in spite of their overwhelmingly advantageous opportunity to do so). It was a transaction. Furthermore, Apple did not have a finished product to copy. They had the very basics to work from: that you have windows on the screen containing information and controls; that you had icons denoting the different directories and documents on the computer; that you had menus of commands rather than typing them in; and that you had a mouse which you moved to make a corresponding pointer follow the motions.

    3) No Apple is not going down the exact same path as Microsoft! What an idea! They have always been going along completely opposite paths! Apple designs an operating system and the computer hardware to run it, optimises the software for its own hardware and downright refuses (while Jobs is around, anyway) to allow its operating system and core software to be licensed to anyone else's hardware, then marketing the thing to high heaven and charging premium rates. They have, in other words, a vertically integrated monolithic business model. Microsoft on the other hand has almost always focussed exclusively on making the system software alone, and getting it onto as many computers as they can possibly manage by selling it to OEMs for, essentially, pennies. Their goal for the 80s and 90s was to have "a computer in every home and on every desk, running Microsoft software", in their own words, and if you dig but a little deeper, to turn Windows into not just an operating system product, but a global standard. They wanted nothing less than the complete monopolisation of Windows, and they were well on their way to doing just that. They were doing whatever they could to push competitors out of favour, by offering massive discounts on Windows to retailers on the basis that they sell computers running Windows and nothing but Windows, they were sabotaging OS/2 while pretending to help IBM to develop it, and when the unthinkable happened and a free alternative to their software turned up in the shape of Linux, they ran endless muck-spreading campaigns to make companies likely to consider switching OS fear for their legal stability. All with that one goal in mind, of standardising Windows as not just the OS of choice, but the only OS you could choose! I can't think of one thing Apple has done (and they have done a lot of questionable things, I will not debate that) that doesn't immediately pale in comparison to just one of the tactics I mentioned. To say that Apple, or indeed any computer company, has ever been "just as bad" as Microsoft, is to be largely ignorant of the industry that you claim to be familiar with.

    History lesson over.

    As for emotionalism, I'm not going to even argue those points. If you can call me out for an "appeal to emotion" and then throw in a comment that they "lie, steal, and cheat" without actually providing any backup at all, what can I even say, other than that you're using the exact same methods you're claiming to rebuke. That's not argument. That's flamebait.


    I'm outta here now, I'm just not able to compete on the same level as some of you seem to be.
     
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  • I'll be honest, i've never really been interested in apple products so i have no idea what impact he had on the apple company. But it won't feel the same seeing one of apples big release presentation things without him stood there.
     
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